2013.02.25 19:00 - Love Through Dropping

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: ☆✶✫✩
Eliza Madrigal: Hello!
stevenaia Michinaga: greetings
stevenaia Michinaga: nice guardian session yesterday, sorry I missed it
Eliza Madrigal: I'm surprised you are still awake, after waking so early today
stevenaia Michinaga: lol, I took a nap, had a late meeting too
Eliza Madrigal: It was great for Pema to pop in, nods
stevenaia Michinaga: was at a dinner pary last night, may have drank a bit to umuch, woke me up early

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu!
Eliza Madrigal: that happens to me too... if I have wine often wake very early and also jittery
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
stevenaia Michinaga: we were drinking much stronger stuff
stevenaia Michinaga: everyone was happy
Eliza Madrigal: I can't remember the last time I had stronger stuff :) maybe a martini a few years ago, but sounds fun
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it;s not a regular event

stevenaia Michinaga: love your outfit, bleu
Eliza Madrigal: especially the wild woman hair!
Bleu Oleander: oh ty steve :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: very arts and crafts ish
stevenaia Michinaga: style-wise
Eliza Madrigal: Hi, Ewan!
Bleu Oleander: actually the pattern is neurons :)

Bleu Oleander: hi Ewan
stevenaia Michinaga: and where do you think they got it from?
Eliza Madrigal: as long as not neurosis ::badumbump::::
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Aph!
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks...
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Aphrodite Macbain: mmm grass
Bleu Oleander: hey Aph :)
Eliza Madrigal: so nice to see you all
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: nice to be seen
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all too

Eliza Madrigal: :) was also nice to wake this morning to a few pointers in the wiki for "love and being" - ty Stevie
Aphrodite Macbain: oh - for example?
Eliza Madrigal: I've kept the "play as love" session open most of the day, going back to read portions
Eliza Madrigal: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2008/07/2008.07.12_19%3a00_-_Play_as_Love
Eliza Madrigal: though it is really mostly about play
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: more than love?
stevenaia Michinaga: some very early chats here
Aphrodite Macbain: bet keep love playful
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose the love is there, love of exploration and play... but not so directly approached
stevenaia Michinaga: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2013/02/2013.02.25_01%3a00_-_Search_for_Love_and_Being_(In_the_Wiki)
Eliza Madrigal: understandably :)

Eliza Madrigal: would love to hear what arises to mind for everyone - for me Being and Love can't be separated but as difficult as Love is to approach, Being perhaps more so :)

Aphrodite Macbain: Thinks about being in love
stevenaia Michinaga: but before you were ever in love what was love?
Eliza Madrigal: wow :)
Aphrodite Macbain: a strange concept
stevenaia Michinaga: same with being, you know it by experience
stevenaia Michinaga: not by description
Eliza Madrigal: yet never separate from

Ewan Bonham: Hmmm... I have another opinion..
Eliza Madrigal listens
Ewan Bonham: I think we are born being loving creatures..
Ewan Bonham: And unfortunately are taught to replace it with ego as we are acculturated
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, like intuition, you can loose it and find it again

Eliza Madrigal: doesn't some conditioning seem to come in with birth?
Ewan Bonham: Eventually, we come to a point where we want to rediscover our loving essence again..
stevenaia Michinaga: I would hope so for all our sakes

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: I think love is an emotion ... one we as humans know from our vantage point ... other beings might experience something similar
Eliza Madrigal: the felt experience of connection = emotion?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi San
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San!
Bleu Oleander: unfortunately we can also experience other emotions like hate and jealousy etc. we can learn to overcome them by recognizing that they exist
Bleu Oleander: hi San
Santoshima Resident: hello everyone ~
Ewan Bonham: Hello San..

Eliza Madrigal: there is something hard to articulate... that hm, connection, Being being Being, not felt, is still 'there'?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi san :-)
Bleu Oleander: hi Luci
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda, wow what a dress :)
Eliza Madrigal: yet we can have experiences of Being amidst our every day being
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi luci
Eliza Madrigal: and perhaps same with experiences of "in love"
Aphrodite Macbain: Luci is the setting sun

Bleu Oleander: is our every day being different than our Being?
Lucinda Lavender: Hello All!
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so... but sometimes perhaps Aware?
Aphrodite Macbain: It all comes down to capital letters
Bleu Oleander: so sometimes being with a cap B ... means?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well I am thinking about Ewan's sensibility of always loving and yet seem to forget
Eliza Madrigal: (though that's a different phrasing)

Aphrodite Macbain: conscious vs unconscious loving
Eliza Madrigal: but even when forgetting not stepping out of Being
Eliza Madrigal nods Aph

Aphrodite Macbain: One is a sentiment, a feeling, a sense of joy and heightened emotion
Aphrodite Macbain: The other is just a deep sense of deep groundedness
Bleu Oleander: so making a distinction between being and Being in some way?
Lucinda Lavender: sorry...so slow is my connection...be well all...
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm not too familiar with the latter
Eliza Madrigal: oh, nice to see you Luci
Eliza Madrigal: sorry about connection
Santoshima Resident: dang my connection is slow too ... missed the dress

Aphrodite Macbain: Everyone should see "Amore" - that's what I mean about the second kind of love
Eliza Madrigal: intend to see that soon :)
stevenaia Michinaga: a movie?
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Santoshima Resident: a pizza
Aphrodite Macbain: It is very powerful
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles

Aphrodite Macbain: no gliz glamour or hype
Aphrodite Macbain: just deep enduring love

Eliza Madrigal: love can't be just a sensation can it, then would be dependent on conditions and time
Aphrodite Macbain: that permeates their beings
Aphrodite Macbain: romantic love is the one that makes dopamines rush round your system
Bleu Oleander: love isn't dependent upon conditions and time? what is love dependent upon?
Aphrodite Macbain: creating feelings of elation

stevenaia Michinaga: my connection is also slow, but I;m falling asleep, not my computer connection
stevenaia Michinaga: night ll
stevenaia Michinaga: all
Aphrodite Macbain: night
Eliza Madrigal: :) night Stevie too
Bleu Oleander: nite steve :)
Santoshima Resident: bye stevenaia
Aphrodite Macbain: I love her exits!

Eliza Madrigal: I guess I have a sense of Love as ground whether or not I feel it
Bleu Oleander: so love is more than an emotion, even though emotions can be felt deeply?

Aphrodite Macbain: that's what I was trying to describe. It isnt just an emotion
Bleu Oleander: what is it then?
Aphrodite Macbain: it's perhaps a state of consciousness

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: (NDR going a bit off the rails)

Bleu Oleander: emotions are a state of consciousnesss
Eliza Madrigal: not attempting profundity... but I'd tend to respond "all there is" re what is love
Eliza Madrigal: and sometimes we experience it with another or nature or community

Aphrodite Macbain: think of consciousness as extending beyond emotions
Aphrodite Macbain: awareness
Aphrodite Macbain: of oneself and others
Bleu Oleander: awareness is consciousness
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: that's what I meant
Aphrodite Macbain: but I dont think awareness is just emotions
Bleu Oleander: emotions are felt states of consciousness
Aphrodite Macbain: mmm

Aphrodite Macbain: are you saying that we are always in an emotional state?
Eliza Madrigal nods... emotions can be reflections of an experience not necessarily articulated ?
Eliza Madrigal: okay that was a strange sentence, sorry
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: they are a body's responses to experiences

Eliza Madrigal: the film you mention, without seeing it I have the impression it is about love that endures beyond the kind of emotions based on first attractions
Bleu Oleander: first attraction emotions are a kind of love emotions
Bleu Oleander: hi Louis
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Louis, would you like a note ?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- a feeling that is in the core of themselves based on a lifetime of experiences
Aphrodite Macbain: they express themelves with little or no emotion
Ewan Bonham: hi Loius..
Louis Onyett: Hi Bleu, Eliza.

Eliza Madrigal: maybe they are strong seed emotions - first attractions
Eliza Madrigal: full of potential
Aphrodite Macbain: but their actions speak of deep committed love
Eliza Madrigal: which may or may not come to fruition
Louis Onyett: Hello Ewan.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bleu Oleander: we tend to refer to every kind of love feeling as "love"
Eliza Madrigal: yes, like I love your wild hair :)
Bleu Oleander: but actually many varieties
Ewan Bonham: And intensities..
Aphrodite Macbain: I gather Buddhism defines a variety of types of love.
Bleu Oleander: hehe :)
Eliza Madrigal: aspects of love, aspects of being

Louis Onyett: Bleu, I agree, but in a contrary manner just to keep us honest.
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Louis Onyett: ;)
Ewan Bonham: Is it really just of degree and how we choose to celebrate love?
Bleu Oleander: :P
Ewan Bonham: I must go folks....interesting convo...:)
Eliza Madrigal: bye Ewan :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Ewan
Santoshima Resident: salut ewan
Louis Onyett: Hmm again the yin and yang seem to out yin me.

Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking about Pema's dropping outline...
Eliza Madrigal:

Pema Pera: dropping successive layers of what we identify with
Pema Pera: starting with personal history, going on to personality, then to humanity, than to being alive, then to time :-)
Bleu (bleu.oleander): can love prevail through the stages of dropping?
druth Vlodovic: I understood that to be the foundation of the whole thing
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh, lovely question Bleu
Zen (zen.arado): love is the natural core perhaps

Eliza Madrigal: so some sense of seeing / seeing through (?) conditions and states
Bleu Oleander: upon reflection I do like that question :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi druth!
Louis Onyett: Love must prevail, or why move?
Bleu Oleander: meaning is tied to movement it seems
Aphrodite Macbain: how so?
Bleu Oleander: reading a fascinating book, "Louder than words"
Bleu Oleander: seems we make meaning through embodied simulation
Santoshima Resident: meaning is within context, and is held together by relationship and recognition of that
Aphrodite Macbain: what is Bleu?
Eliza Madrigal: enactments
Bleu Oleander: meaning is based on movement and our experience
Santoshima Resident: { ^ imho}
Aphrodite Macbain: embodied simulation?

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain wonders what Bleu is doing
Bleu Oleander: recent studies have shown that we use parts of our brains associated with movement when we find meaning in experience and language
Santoshima Resident: mapping
Eliza Madrigal: function deeper or quicker than consciousness
Bleu Oleander: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: physical reactions to things?
Aphrodite Macbain: we respond without thinking about it?
Bleu Oleander: so when we say love ... meaning comes from our experience in the world
Aphrodite Macbain: what has that to do with movement?
Louis Onyett: This is true about all concepts

Eliza Madrigal: some studies show we reach before deciding to... there is more study ahead on that
Bleu Oleander: we move in the world so we remember our experiences
Louis Onyett: Yes, that is neat.
Aphrodite Macbain: we move in order to remember?
Bleu Oleander: we move and we remember
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the book called? I dont understand this
Bleu Oleander: we remember feelings associated with our experience
Eliza Madrigal: so responsiveness may arise from context and situatedness, and action following, which would certainly agree with a lot of buddhist thought as I understand it
Bleu Oleander: "louder than words"
Bleu Oleander: yes

Aphrodite Macbain: yes. we remember things better when there are emotions associated with them
Bleu Oleander: seems most of what we do has an emotional component ... even rational thinking does
Aphrodite Macbain: actions speak...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting
Eliza Madrigal: so love and then acts of love
Aphrodite Macbain: of fear of love and moving away?
Aphrodite Macbain: or
Eliza Madrigal listens

Bleu Oleander: so all of us may have slightly different concepts of love in our minds
Louis Onyett: Yes, Bleu. Understanding what is the same and different is the fun part.
Bleu Oleander: agree
Eliza Madrigal: I think (ha ha 'think') Love is prior to mind
Eliza Madrigal: that mind arises to grasp at experience of love
Bleu Oleander: loaded words there hehe
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Santoshima Resident: depends on your definition of 'mind"
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Eliza Madrigal: indeed

Aphrodite Macbain: : why would it do that?
Aphrodite Macbain: mind arising to grasp...
Bleu Oleander: so love exists even if no mind?
Santoshima Resident: likes to keep busy? ...
Aphrodite Macbain: love is a chemical concotion
Santoshima Resident: lag abounds tonight

Eliza Madrigal: touches on what Zen is trying to articulate with nonduality angles I guess... spontaneous play of appearances and possibilities
Aphrodite Macbain: triggered by experience and the mind
Aphrodite Macbain: we all speak different languages...
Eliza Madrigal nods
Santoshima Resident: yes, love not defined by emotional state. but creative life force
Aphrodite Macbain: based on what we experience and what we learn
Santoshima Resident: love is the creative life force
Aphrodite Macbain: necessity is the mother of invention...
Eliza Madrigal: which comes back to Being
Santoshima Resident: huh
Louis Onyett: Aphrodite seems to be saying that we have brains and there is no mystery. The brain made love.
Bleu Oleander: so many ways to define what love means
Santoshima Resident: yes
Santoshima Resident: eliza

Aphrodite Macbain: yes thank you Louis
Aphrodite Macbain: It all starts in the brain
Aphrodite Macbain: which dictates what happens next
Santoshima Resident: yoiks
Louis Onyett: A straight forward view...good place to start

Bleu Oleander: so the brain, the mind, the body, and others made the emotion of love felt as a feeling
Aphrodite Macbain: secreting different hormones at different times so we can survive as a species
Aphrodite Macbain: romantic love
Aphrodite Macbain: mother love
Bleu Oleander: puppy love
Aphrodite Macbain: each serves a purpose
Santoshima Resident: a birdsong
Aphrodite Macbain: to ensure we survive
Santoshima Resident: a blade of grass
Louis Onyett: I like them all, regardless. :)
Bleu Oleander: love of chocolate
Santoshima Resident: dew
Santoshima Resident: sunlight
Santoshima Resident: flowers
Santoshima Resident: pollen
Bleu Oleander: sky
Santoshima Resident: crystals and minerals
Eliza Madrigal: certainly the other side of the coin - form and formless
Aphrodite Macbain: romantics all!
Bleu Oleander: paint
Santoshima Resident: indees
Santoshima Resident: paint and colour
Santoshima Resident: sightedness and senses
Bleu Oleander: color yes!
Santoshima Resident: all a gift
Bleu Oleander: birds
Santoshima Resident: and all
Santoshima Resident: love
Bleu Oleander: music
Santoshima Resident: dance
Aphrodite Macbain: romatic poets to boot
Bleu Oleander: sleep
Santoshima Resident: boots
Bleu Oleander: books
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Eliza Madrigal: my question today was... able to have romance without idealism?

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: self
Louis Onyett: sleep especially. Good to be tired. :)
Aphrodite Macbain: time to go to bed?
Aphrodite Macbain: so we can love again tomorrow
Bleu Oleander: Aph :) nite
Aphrodite Macbain: nite nite
Bleu Oleander: take care
Santoshima Resident: bye

Bleu Oleander: that was your question tonight Eliza?
Louis Onyett: Did we come close to an answer? lol
Eliza Madrigal: earlier today, after this morning's session actually.... seems to be where confusion arises for me, experientially, in "dealings with love" :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe love without pedestals is still idealism, lots of questions around that :) no answers
Bleu Oleander: pedestals?

Santoshima Resident: romance without idealism, sure!
Santoshima Resident: courage required
Eliza Madrigal: expectations might be another way of saying pedestal
Santoshima Resident: i like what veda hile sings:
Eliza Madrigal: ah yes, courage required :) nice
Santoshima Resident: we must be stronger than love
Santoshima Resident: see ya
Eliza Madrigal: night San
Louis Onyett: bye
Bleu Oleander: bye san

Bleu Oleander: so no answers ... that's a good thing :)

Louis Onyett: I too must sleep. I'll dream of PaB.
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Louis
Eliza Madrigal: maybe PaB will dream of you
Bleu Oleander: nite Louis
Bleu Oleander: take care

Eliza Madrigal: sorry to miss saying bye to Aph, was looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_9x...e=results_main

Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bleu Oleander: clicking
Bleu Oleander: ah yes :)

Eliza Madrigal: It is interesting... tonight there were so many views and I don't disagree with any
Bleu Oleander: all right in a way
Eliza Madrigal: materialist views and cosmic views, along with others
Bleu Oleander: all pieces of the puzzle
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: nice to have all of them
Eliza Madrigal: does feel some clarity to arise
Eliza Madrigal: though maybe not in a tidy way
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: not tidy ... also a good thing :)
Eliza Madrigal: agreed too! :)

Eliza Madrigal: thanks for coming... I'd better get some sleep too
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Bleu Oleander: take care
Eliza Madrigal: may try to step in for Riddle tomorrow but not sure if able yet
Eliza Madrigal: Night, tc
Eliza Madrigal: ♥ ♥ ♥
Bleu Oleander: ♥ *•.¸♥¸.•* ♥
Bleu Oleander: bye