2009.05.13 01:00 - Appreciation & the retreat

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. Susi joined me and was quickly followed by Pema. We spoke about having to shift the Phenomenology Workshop due to Pema being in Japan (I haven't included it as it was outside PaB) and then we launched into Pema's ideas about the retreat!

Susi Alcott: Hello Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Susi:)
Tarmel Udimo: had a good day Susi?
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Tarmel Udimo: Thanks Susi, what is that;)
Susi Alcott: pls rezz and see :)
Tarmel Udimo: that's very sweet (a beautiful card)
Tarmel Udimo: Thank you Susi
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Tarmel Udimo: hey pema
Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel and Susi!
Susi Alcott: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: :)
Tarmel Udimo: How's the connection today Pema?
Pema Pera: oh fine! I'm in my hotel room now, which has ethernet connection
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: The bottleneck has been my own time, more than anything else; I have been rather busy here in Japan
Pema Pera: mostly astrophysics work
Pema Pera: how is life?
Tarmel Udimo: trucking along, getting over a cold:)
Pema Pera: good luck!
Pema Pera: that's always a drag
Pema Pera: and how is "stopping, dropping, not-doing, Being, and all that", if I may ask?
Tarmel Udimo: well its always constantly in my thoughts Pema
Tarmel Udimo: Being I mean, or experiencing it or thinking about it:)
Tarmel Udimo: trying to observe life from that perspective
Pema Pera: any recent anecdote or example?
Tarmel Udimo: more to do with seeing through things
Tarmel Udimo: I was very impacted by one of the last workshops sessions held by Stim
Tarmel Udimo: Pila had posted an article about truth
Tarmel Udimo: and I was inspired to actually really try to live truthfully - as opposed to just thinking or talking about it
Pema Pera: isn't it interesting, whenever you try to do something *really*, how you discover more and more and more subtle layers, beyond what you first saw?
Tarmel Udimo: tell me about it:)
Pema Pera: like an onion . . . after each layer a more subtle one
Tarmel Udimo: its very subtle
Tarmel Udimo: it can also be a little confronting
Pema Pera: in what way, with yourself you mean?
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: seeing how many shades of untruths there are:)
Pema Pera: indeed
Pema Pera: it can be quite shocking . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: yes, tarmel hangs her head
Pema Pera: As for me, recently I have noticed more and more the tendency to "lean into the future"
Pema Pera: in more and more subtle ways
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Pema Pera: it is one thing to tell myself to live in the present, and not to run after goals
Tarmel Udimo: can you say more
Pema Pera: to do what I can do in a non-doing way, in a wu-wei way, without expectations
Pema Pera: leaving the results of my actions to the universe
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: that's a good one to work on
Pema Pera: and in many ways I have tried to cultivated that way of acting for decades now, ever since I first heard about it
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: and yet, there are many occasions where I noticed in increasingly subtle ways that I am still hooked to tiny results
Pema Pera: to leaning into the future, to have expectations . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: but are you noticing that you are still anticipating
Pema Pera: really resting in the present would mean to let go of everything completely, to see that each moment is totally complete
Pema Pera: you could die after that moment
Pema Pera: or not, it doesn't make a difference
Tarmel Udimo: sounds like you are close
Pema Pera: and if there actually is another moment, you could say "thank you" to the universe, and live that completely too
Pema Pera: and so on
Tarmel Udimo: and since you are aware of it you are on the verge
Pema Pera: hahaha, I feel stil far away from it
Pema Pera: for example, when I notice that I get annoyed at having hundreds of emails in my inbox that I haven't had time to read yet
Susi Alcott: sry I must leave
Pema Pera: buy Susi!
Susi Alcott: wishing you very good time
Pema Pera: u 2 Susi!
Susi Alcott: was nice to meet you both
Tarmel Udimo: By Susi
Susi Alcott: _/!\_

Tarmel Udimo: wow, nice
Pema Pera: wow, quite a departure!
Tarmel Udimo: yes;)
Pema Pera: as for hanging your head, that is a natural reaction, and there the challenge is to appreciate everything, also the ongoing mistakes we make
Tarmel Udimo: I think its OK to get annoyed, angry, sad, angry
Tarmel Udimo: its the clinging that we must eliminate
Pema Pera: appreciating the presence of *any* form of appearance
Pema Pera: or .. . appreciate the clinging
Pema Pera: without even trying to eliminate it
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pema Pera: perhaps appreciation will let it evaporate
Pema Pera: or not
Pema Pera: that's not the central point
Tarmel Udimo: so no trying to eliminate leaning to the future either:)
Pema Pera: exactly
Pema Pera: noticing it
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: "seeing is enough"
Pema Pera: such a powerful expression
Tarmel Udimo: seeing changes things
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: but this not enough for some people
Tarmel Udimo: there is still much yearning for more as i did when i first landed here
Tarmel Udimo: at PaB
Tarmel Udimo: I think if you are really trying to see and just that, it is enough
Pema Pera: yes, and I think in principle anyone can do that
Tarmel Udimo: it is a lifetime's work
Pema Pera: and at the same time it is all over already . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: you mean life?
Pema Pera: we can see that there is nothing to do, and celebrate that fact
Tarmel Udimo: or trying?
Pema Pera: no, the work
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: it is actually possible to be *really* radical, and to refuse any further work and strive and reaching
Pema Pera: and to celebrate that fact
Pema Pera: by appreciating the presence of what appears
Pema Pera: inner and outer
Pema Pera: lock stock and barrel
Pema Pera: totally
Tarmel Udimo: does it work for you?
Pema Pera: yes, when I remember
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pema Pera: and when I don't, everything gets so much harder, that I quickly remember again :)
Pema Pera: the 9-sec every 15 min helps a lot
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: and yet when for instance one looks at seeing through the untruths
Tarmel Udimo: this feels like an important activity
Pema Pera: yes, but that is also appreciation
Pema Pera: I'm wondering whether to focus the whole retreat on "appreciating the presence of appearance"
Pema Pera: in August, I mean
Tarmel Udimo: well the wonderful thing is that we are all PaBers, which means you could begin this way and see where it takes us
Pema Pera: appreciating the way in which we feel compelled to tell untruth
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: seeing through the untruths can be done in a heavy and in a light way
Tarmel Udimo: It has such depth that there will be a lot to explore
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: heavy way: with the intention to catch the mistakes and repair them, with an improvement orientation
Tarmel Udimo: depth in "appreciating the presence of appearance"
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: rather than just observe and appreciate?
Pema Pera: light way: lovely observing how and why we feel we have to tell untruths, even in very subtle ways, appreciating the whole dynamic, and then letting it fall off like a ripe fruit, or a scab on a wound
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: and will there be periods of meditation?
Pema Pera: the lightest form of this light way is just appreciating the presence of appearance
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pema Pera: yes, sitting/walking/being with that sentence
Pema Pera: that would be one form
Tarmel Udimo: not even qualifying it
Tarmel Udimo: understand
Tarmel Udimo: so a sentence a day?
Pema Pera: or a sentence for a week :)
Tarmel Udimo: ohhhhhh
Tarmel Udimo: yikes
Pema Pera: although different individuals could focus on a different sentence
Pema Pera: or change them -- Play as Being is playful and free form
Pema Pera: and if you really want to change the sentences, fine!
Pema Pera: there is just enormous value at sticking with one approach and really exploring it
Pema Pera: to see where it leads to, rather than darting continuously at the surface level, looking for new entertainments . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: agreed
Tarmel Udimo: it was more a question as to what you were wanting to do?
Pema Pera: I'd like us all to "Play as Being" in whatever way we can find to work
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pema Pera: and I think a sentence will help to focus our attention
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: Perhaps I should send an email to the PaB group right now
Pema Pera: I've been meaning to do that, just been so busy
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pema Pera: ok, will do. Great talking with you, Tarmel!
Tarmel Udimo: why don't you take the time now
Pema Pera: yes
Tarmel Udimo: yes great talking with you - as always
Tarmel Udimo: bye pema
Pema Pera: same here :)
Pema Pera: be well!
Tarmel Udimo: you too