2010.05.19 19:00 - Who "owns".....

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: I was hanging from the rafters for a bit, how are you?
Calvino Rabeni: Your arms look longer than usual
stevenaia Michinaga: is that a cell phone hanging from your belt?
Calvino Rabeni: I'm well, I thought I'd drop in for a while
stevenaia Michinaga: thanls
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Calvino Rabeni: It's an AO - I am not quite sure how to conceal it
stevenaia Michinaga: I got the email about the wiki, sounds like a monumental task to relocate all that information and structure
Calvino Rabeni: What it does, is create a different "walk" than the default duck walk that all avis know how to do
stevenaia Michinaga: I can do a duck walk? who would have thought
Calvino Rabeni: Well, the funny default walk avatars have
stevenaia Michinaga: didn;t know it had an unflattering name
Calvino Rabeni: I've heard it called that - well it looks a bit choppy
Calvino Rabeni: Reminds me of how toddlers walk when first learning
Calvino Rabeni: But sure, why worry about it, or appearances
Calvino Rabeni: All Is Vanity
stevenaia Michinaga: avatar vanity
stevenaia Michinaga: How much space does our wiki consume on the server?
Calvino Rabeni: Is it a fair analogy - My Avatar Made Me Do It - versus My Body Made Me Do It
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know how much space - a small sliver of a disk drive I suppose.
Calvino Rabeni: The new wiki already exists
Calvino Rabeni: It's not hard to move the bulk of the data
Calvino Rabeni: But looking for bad links - haven't done that yet
Calvino Rabeni: It will be work to troll through it all, manually
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a script can do that - I believe that is possible, if there turn out to be a lot
Calvino Rabeni: The new Wiki is at the place it will be later http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
stevenaia Michinaga: it can look but can it resign the link?
stevenaia Michinaga: nicer shade of green
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I could make a script for that if there were lots of them to fix
stevenaia Michinaga: didn;t realize you were a programer type
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, in a previous incarnation :)
stevenaia Michinaga: comes in handy from time to time
Calvino Rabeni: It could be a creative outlet,like any language
Calvino Rabeni: Do you do any SL scripting?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I used to do relational database pregramming, I don;t why I was attracted to that, that than it was object oriented and graphical in nature
stevenaia Michinaga: ie, no structured programming language, just pictorial plug ins to create db programming
Calvino Rabeni: Oh, graphical - you mean, with a tool to diagram the relations, which then get built into the database schema?
Calvino Rabeni: OK
stevenaia Michinaga: something like that, as you can imagine what bad typing would do to any programming language, this eliminates any possibility of that
Calvino Rabeni: The words versus pictures language distinction is puzzling
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.qsatoolworks.com/product/
Calvino Rabeni: For a while, pictures seemed like the hot new thing
Calvino Rabeni: but then it turned out, they weren't as expressive as people thought they would be
Calvino Rabeni: so the words won out
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: to each ther own
stevenaia Michinaga: many ways to skin that cat, a very bad metaphor
Calvino Rabeni: different strokes for different folks
Calvino Rabeni: always use the right tool for the job
Calvino Rabeni: if you have a hammer,...
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, interesting was to say the same thing as well
Calvino Rabeni: In the early days of computer technology, space was limited
Calvino Rabeni: Now it's treated from a design standpoint as a nearly infinite commodity

Calvino Rabeni: Who "owns" the PaB information? A question never formally discussed
stevenaia Michinaga: it may ahve never been asked
stevenaia Michinaga: or never needed to be
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bertram
Calvino Rabeni: Suppose someone - whether associated with PaB or not - wrote a book and made $10,000,000 using the chat logs
Bertram Jacobus: hello steven and cal ! :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: 10 millions dollars !? ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: Or, suppose I converted to some religion, then decided all my PaB statements were heresy, and wanted them all expunged?
stevenaia Michinaga: we were discussion the question of who owns what;s on te wiki
Calvino Rabeni: Or, many quotes were used on some talk show in a derogatory way
Bertram Jacobus: ah. i see. my idae is sharing ... ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: OK, a more positive scenario then, also ?
stevenaia Michinaga: there have been discussions about what gets posted and how in the early days, that was left to the guardians
stevenaia Michinaga: extensive discussions
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: Suppose MIT or some think tank, had a way to reformat the chat log, to become part of a big spiritual database along with other sources
Bertram Jacobus: hy paradise ! :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Would that be acceptable?
Bertram Jacobus: mrs. neighbour ... :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Para :)
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t that what google does
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. steve .. bertram :) gtsy everyone :)
stevenaia Michinaga: with everything?
Calvino Rabeni: No google indexes, but doesn't digest, reformat into other intellectual products
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders when conversations written can be copywritten
Calvino Rabeni: I suspect, too late for that
Calvino Rabeni: And there isn't a formal statment such as - comments are the property of the one who said them, or some such
stevenaia Michinaga: we each have the ability to modify the wiki, or correct spelling, the edit trail will vanish when the wiki gets moved
Bertram Jacobus: to me it´s the "one world" thought which comes more and more to reality through such ...
stevenaia Michinaga: one world in what sence
Calvino Rabeni: I was trying to go in that direction Bert
Calvino Rabeni: What ideas have you ?
Bertram Jacobus: more the aspect of being linked then being devided
Bertram Jacobus: more share then hold
stevenaia Michinaga: but back to ownership of the material, there has been discussion of books being written either by individulas or the groups in chapters
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: my impression is, many points like "ownership" especially are changing through the phenomenon whcih is called "the net" - only not understood fully by many yet ... ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: some ahve taken on various finantical responsibilities for the "upkeep" of the group, others may choose to profit from it or its ideas, what of it? each to their own abilities
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and to me that is a wonderful developement
Bertram Jacobus: may it change the world - and help the poor and may help the rich
Calvino Rabeni: google is making ever-more complex ways to commoditize information
Calvino Rabeni: and to find different ways to make money from it
Calvino Rabeni: to buy, or to compensate the creators etc.
Calvino Rabeni: But what I am wondering is, will this create a more rigid capitalist system,
Calvino Rabeni: or will it be adaptable for the kind of sharing we like to do
Calvino Rabeni: which is more like a gift economy
Bertram Jacobus: all directions and developements always are thinkable - in my eyes
Bertram Jacobus: the good and the bad ones
Bertram Jacobus: i try to support the good ones ;o)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, thee're thinkable, but the systems that get built, commit us to do thngs in certain wayhs
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think so : in the end, it may be a question of personal freedom. the realities of dropping and all that
Calvino Rabeni: I mean,, technical systems. LIke Google
Calvino Rabeni: We can make adds
Calvino Rabeni: And find a big slush pile for free
Calvino Rabeni: *ads
Calvino Rabeni: And pay money for products
stevenaia Michinaga: there have been articles written about the group, I never thought that there may ahve been compensation, as it never seemed to matter
Bertram Jacobus: i know. but i mean : does the mind create the world or does the world constrains us ? i prefere the first idea ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: http://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/article/view/288
Bertram Jacobus: constrain*
Calvino Rabeni: We trade attention to products, for "free" information we think we want
Calvino Rabeni: The mind and the world are lovers - long ago they ran madly together into a passionate embrace
Paradise Tennant: smiles at cal ..very well put !
Calvino Rabeni: What I am hoping, is, the machinery made by google will also enable people to give of ideas instead of money, as a kind of economy
Calvino Rabeni: In terms of the news, for isntance, google execs are aware - that it needs to be made more interesting and represent a wider variety of ideas and views
Calvino Rabeni: But they are not sure how to "monetize" or incentive-ize it
Bertram Jacobus: i leave again - ty all - 4:55 am here (!) *lol* - was only a short interruption of my sleeping times ... may all beings be happy please ! :-)
Calvino Rabeni: To make it work
Calvino Rabeni: Yes PLEas Bert
stevenaia Michinaga: night Bertram
Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well
Bertram Jacobus: ty again ! *wave* ... :-)
Paradise Tennant: good nite bert :) shlaf gut
Bertram Jacobus: danke ! :-)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: me too I am going to scoot sorry kind of sleepy :) thank you for the interesting conversation though :)
Calvino Rabeni: YW Para
stevenaia Michinaga: night Paradie
Calvino Rabeni: And I also - have a RL thing to do soon
Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams all .. namaste :))))
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Para, Steve, thanks
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it is a suitable discussion for the sunday morning group, Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Yes good for that time true
Calvino Rabeni: Bye, be well
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lucinda
stevenaia Michinaga: Bye Lucinda