The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

        Fefonz Quan: Hello Wol!

Wol Euler: hello fef, eliza, bruce
Fefonz Quan: Hi Eliza!
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fef, Wol, and Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol and Bruce :)
Fefonz Quan: And Bruce too :)
Wol Euler: I was just about to sugges tthat you join us, bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fefonz Quan: nice hat you got there Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: TY!
Bruce Mowbray: TY TY TY!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: It was a gift from Santoshima!
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: You know something. . . ?
Bruce Mowbray: A thought just struck me as somehow "significant."
Fefonz Quan: yes, you both have horns!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: mm?
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh!
Eliza Madrigal: was noticing that too
Bruce Mowbray: that was not exactly my thought, but OK.
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Wol Euler grins.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal listens for thought
Bruce Mowbray: i WAS THINKING (SINCE i AM BRAND NEW TO VOICE....),
Bruce Mowbray: THAT IT IS SO COOL THAT WE could BE USING VOICE BUT OPT not TO USE IT.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear..
Bruce Mowbray: caps lock again, sry.
Wol Euler: no worries
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ty.
Fefonz Quan: IT HAPPENS all the time
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh.
Wol Euler disabled her capslock key :)
Wol Euler: along with that damned idiotic "windows" key
Bruce Mowbray: just that. . . perhaps we choose to slow down by chatting. . .
Fefonz Quan: was the voice dispute regarding the PaB sessions?
Bruce Mowbray: or out of ferrence for those who cannot use voice....
Bruce Mowbray: or something else....
Bruce Mowbray: it seems a very prudent and wise choice not to use it.
Wol Euler: many people prefer not to use voice *points to self*
Eliza Madrigal: I think I would not like SL so much if voice was the norm... it gives a feeling of quiet even though sharing
Eliza Madrigal: but I do like the occasional voice chat
Bruce Mowbray: no dispute for moi, simply noticing . . . and being glad about that.
Bruce Mowbray: I do too, Eliza....
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rafilla :)
Bruce Mowbray: especially now that I can do voice -- for the first time.
Raffila Millgrove: hi everyone
Wol Euler: hello raffi
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Raffi!
Fefonz Quan: I just tohught of it, but than I htought that some shop here should sell "avi voice" in order to allow such things
Wol Euler: there is a voice-disguising system that one can use
Wol Euler: subscription fee
Fefonz Quan: otherwise the voice breaks down some of the main concepts regarding avatars etc.
Wol Euler: it ... what would the word be? it converts your voice into a computer voice
Raffila Millgrove: we have voice morph free here in SL. i never tried it.
Raffila Millgrove: but it's in the preferences for voice.
Wol Euler: free? I thought subscription charge
Raffila Millgrove: no it's free.
Wol Euler: wow
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
Eliza Madrigal: How've you been Fef, and family?
Fefonz Quan: good, thanks.
Bruce Mowbray: How's the little one?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Raffila Millgrove: oh excuse me. i am wrong.. it is by subscription... so sorry. wrong info
Fefonz Quan: now we are dissapointed :)
Wol Euler nods and smiles
Bruce Mowbray: ?
Raffila Millgrove sighs and says sorry again.
Wol Euler: no worries :)
Fefonz Quan nods
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Raffila Millgrove: i am having a very bad day here.. not bad.. just surreal. Some turkish speaking newbie fell into my house this morning and since then.. all goes bizarre and surrealistic.
Wol Euler: oh wow
Bruce Mowbray recalls how one who used to be one of "us" sooooo resisted the word "we."
Raffila Millgrove: under the spell of a turkish newbie.. all goes foreign.
Raffila Millgrove: hahaha
Wol Euler: hello santo
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
Santoshima Resident: greetings everyone
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear... so sry, Raffi.
Fefonz Quan: (who was it bruce? and good, thanks for asknig)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!
Fefonz Quan: Hey San!
Wol Euler: was he at least apologetic, raffi?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it was the good man Dash. . . .
Raffila Millgrove: who knows. poor thinkg just darted about confused for 30 minutes.
Bruce Mowbray: but that is history now.
Bruce Mowbray: I am wishing him sell.
Bruce Mowbray: “May you be free from suffering. May you experience joy and ease.”
Wol Euler: poor guy, SL is pretty confusing at first
Eliza Madrigal: wish him well too, nice Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: well*
Wol Euler recognizes the words of the Karuna Metta meditation and smiles
Fefonz Quan: It felt like an argument getting out of control if I recall well
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray also smiles.
Wol Euler: it felt to me like somebody having a one-sided argument *at* us
Fefonz Quan: (when is the KMM taking place?)
Wol Euler: fef, it's available almost any time, but specifically fifteen minutes before each session
Bruce Mowbray blesses and releases Dash and all others who have departed PaB to their perfect paths.
Fefonz Quan: ah, nice
Wol Euler: it is :)
Wol Euler: very emotionally loaded, but nice
Eliza Madrigal feels that it is the *best* thing Storm has ever built
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: and that's a pretty high bar
Wol Euler nods.
Fefonz Quan: why emotionally loaded Wol? the meditation?
Wol Euler: yes, I found it very moving
Wol Euler: surprisingly so
Wol Euler: very intense
Bruce Mowbray: It is a wonderful setting -- Especially when one is doing a personal retreat. . . an excellent way to prepare for session here.
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: Ah, is it he one wishing good for you, than friends, and egets to the ones you don't liike/
Fefonz Quan: ?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, though Storm starts with 'friend' then yourself
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Samúð
Eliza Madrigal: which is wise I feel
oO0Oo Resident: Hi everyone !
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, 0!
Santoshima Resident: hello sam
Fefonz Quan: Hi O!
Wol Euler: hello Samúð
Fefonz Quan wish he could type such nice letters
Fefonz Quan: es*
Bruce Mowbray: I find that more and more (probably because I am re-visiting the 7 Points of Mind Training -- that I am praying for other's benefit . . . and this fits it so well with the Karuna Metta meditation.
Bruce Mowbray: in*
Fefonz Quan: interesting, starting with friend in an intriguing version
Fefonz Quan: In a way I guess it is easier for some, and also changes the emphasis a little
Bruce Mowbray: "May all gain and reward go to others; may all loss and defeat come to me." --- from the 7 Points...
Bruce Mowbray: SOunds harsh, but the more I practice ity, the more "right" it feels.
Bruce Mowbray: it*
Bruce Mowbray: That DOES have a way of "changing the focus" a bit!
Fefonz Quan: tong len.... what are the 7 points?
Bruce Mowbray: Mind Trainiong in Seven Points.....
Fefonz Quan: which is...
Bruce Mowbray: One of the central practices of Pema Chodron and Ken McLeod.
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent resource material for growth.
Bruce Mowbray: for moi, anyhooooo.
Fefonz Quan: I see, thanks.
Bruce Mowbray: YW!
Eliza Madrigal: it is hard to include oneself at times... not keep oneself out and also not put oneself first
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, swo true, Eliza.
Bruce Mowbray: so true*
Wol Euler: I couldn't really connect to wishing myself well, first time in
Wol Euler: it felt odd somehow
Bruce Mowbray: totally understand that, Wol.
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Fefonz Quan: that's why it is such a great practice I think.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is a great practice.
oO0Oo Resident: History and explication of Lojong (seven points mind training): https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lojong
Bruce Mowbray: TY TY TY! Samuo!
Wol Euler: the middle step, when you choose somebody you know only vaguely, "someone you feel neutral about" -- I had a hard time finding such a person :)
Fefonz Quan: I am a big fan of the "accept yourself and love yourself" as one of the major basis for further growth
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fefonz Quan: (Ah, I always mix tong-len and lo jong)
Wol Euler: ty sam
Eliza Madrigal: I find it interesting not to intend a particular person but see who appears there
Bruce Mowbray: Tonglen is one of the practices -- the MAJOR one -- included in the Logong practice.
Bruce Mowbray: lojong*
oO0Oo Resident: good lead in to equinimity Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: ah, nods
oO0Oo Resident: can apply to many things
Fefonz Quan: I see it as a lead to compassion - (and metta) - the ability to be in those states toward the "neutral"
Santoshima Resident: bye
Fefonz Quan: Bye Santo
Wol Euler: bye san, take care
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza, - - - sort of leave an empty chair at the table and wait to see who shows u for dinner ---= and love.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Fefonz Quan: it is like the ultimate "open your heart" approach - open it wide, without knowing what will step in now, without the pre-tendency to ike or dislike
--BELL--
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: up*
Eliza Madrigal thinking of P Chodron's 'drive all blames into Juan' teaching... so funny...
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Wol Euler: eh?
Bruce Mowbray: Drive all blame into Juan???
Eliza Madrigal: The Lojong is 'drive all blames into one' and is about taking responsibility... nice companion verse to the one Bruce quoted...
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Thank you for this gift, Eliza...
Eliza Madrigal: but Pema describe someone mishearing...
Wol Euler: ah
Bruce Mowbray: I will surely check into that one...
Wol Euler smiles.
Fefonz Quan: into that Juan
Eliza Madrigal: *describes... and it becomes a funny play on tendency to find another to blame... something like that
Wol Euler: the scapegoat :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I have always interpreted that to mean, "Drive all blame into the ego-centered, ego-clinging part of me,"
Eliza Madrigal: interesting, Bruce
Fefonz Quan: I try to figure out the meaning of it. I would think blame by itself is some dillution you should let go off
Fefonz Quan: sion*
Eliza Madrigal: it does at first sound self-loathing
Wol Euler: *delusion?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fefonz Quan: yes, thanks
Wol Euler: just checking :)
Bruce Mowbray: What it means -- in the 7 Points -- according to Ken McLeod, is: I AM RESPONSIBLE for everything that has ever gone wrong in the world.
Wol Euler: huh, some of us feel that way without encouragement :/
Eliza Madrigal: there is an empowerment there really, though
Bruce Mowbray: It does indeed sound self-loathing.... but when one does it as a practice, then it becomes something altogether different.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, an empowerment.
Wol Euler: I suppose it depends how you frame that: could be either "I am the cause of ..." or "it is my duty to deal with..."
Eliza Madrigal: no longer thinking acceptance comes from outside
Fefonz Quan: yes, I like the second one much more
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: In the 7 Points, it is an exchange. . .
Bruce Mowbray: a powerful exchange.
Bruce Mowbray: as a practice.
Bruce Mowbray: (Tonglen.)
Eliza Madrigal: there are less serious ones too... like 'don't worry there is nothing real about your confusion' :))
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: THAT is reassuring!
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
oO0Oo Resident: Trungpa Rinpoche on "drive all blames..." http://lojongmindtraining.com/Commen...r=2&proverb=12
Wol Euler: broken url?
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/9iNzek
Fefonz Quan: this is your responsibility too :)
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, seems broken, Samuo. . . perhaps another?
Wol Euler: ah, that worked, ty
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh! THAT one works great! THANK you!
Eliza Madrigal: thank you Samúð
Fefonz Quan: thanks, I can easily connect with the point that cmoplaining is a poison
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: complaining*
oO0Oo Resident: Pema C.: Jaun and Jaunitas: http://is.gd/U4hpKL
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that it is important to emphasize that "I am responsible for all wrongs" is NOT self-loathing.
Bruce Mowbray: It is a form of compassion -- of releasing all beings to their highest paths.
Bruce Mowbray: by no longer blaming THEM -- but rather, the exchange of taking their "karma" into yourself...
oO0Oo Resident: "It doesn't mean, instead of blaming other people, blame yourself. It means to touch in with what blame feels like altogether. Instead of guarding yourself, instead of pushing things away, begin to get in touch with the fact that there's a very soft spot under all that armor" -- Pema
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Bruce Mowbray: thank you, 0!
Fefonz Quan: yes, Pema says it very nicely. Bruces version sounded too christian to me
Wol Euler sends a note to a Game Master to raise O's karma by a few points
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! I've not been called "too Christian" for decades!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Bruce Mowbray: but hey! sacrifice is sacrifice -- to make "holy..."
Fefonz Quan: :-)
Raffila Millgrove: why do you say that something sounds "too christian" as tho that is a bad thing?
oO0Oo Resident: Here's Osho: http://is.gd/Rt0pCO
Fefonz Quan: I don't think buddhists think that karma can be exchanged.
Bruce Mowbray takes on all of the "wrongs" of the entire Christian experience upon himself. . . . as Tonglen practice.
Fefonz Quan: karma is personal - since it is simply the effect of the causes of your actions
Raffila Millgrove: why is it that buddism here is sacrosanct and Christianity is frowned on.
Eliza Madrigal: if one follows through with Christian practice feel it is much same
Bruce Mowbray: yes, at core, exactle the same, Eliza.
Bruce Mowbray: exactly*
Eliza Madrigal: but also that many who were raised in Christian traditions may have experienced a lot of a kind of guilt that would lean more toward self-loathing
Eliza Madrigal: (points to self)
Bruce Mowbray: oh yeah, I relate to that one!
Eliza Madrigal: not that Jesus would have imposed that, but lots of interpreters
Eliza Madrigal: fundamentally bad, etc
Fefonz Quan: I didin't say Christianity is better or worse, just wanted to look into what's been said
Raffila Millgrove sighs
Raffila Millgrove: its ok. I will run along now...
Wol Euler: bye raffi, take care
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to have offended Raffi, if so
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Raffi: “May you be free from suffering. May you experience joy and ease.”
Wol Euler: I hope you aren't going away angry?
Eliza Madrigal: would benefit to add to the discussion perhaps
Raffila Millgrove: i am not offended or angry.
Wol Euler: good
Raffila Millgrove: i was listening to all that was said.
Wol Euler smiles.
Fefonz Quan: good bye Raffila
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: hello aph
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, it's Aph!
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Aph!
Fefonz Quan: Hi Aph!
Raffila Millgrove: and i think maybe.. those who are christians here feel like odd ducks. the reason i feel it.. is that two people said this to me.. so.. it's not a guess.
oO0Oo Resident: Acharya Judy Lief on "drive All Blames..." http://is.gd/Y8Ey5E
Raffila Millgrove: i just mention it in passing.
Eliza Madrigal nods... it would be nice to talk more about that
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Bruce Mowbray: I sit with Christians every week -- and they are wonderful souls.
Wol Euler: okay, let's bring that up at anohter session
Wol Euler: it is worth clearing up
Aphrodite Macbain: Christians?
Eliza Madrigal: would like that myself
Bruce Mowbray: It is my only meditation experience on a regular basis - with a group.
Raffila Millgrove: i don't thin there is anything to clear up.. we just heard that Bruce thinks some Christians are wonderful souls.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: I appreciate them and love them.
Raffila Millgrove: the fact that some who are Pabbers might feel like odd ducks.. well i guess that is their problem.. as it's not the case.
Fefonz Quan: Raffila, I would doubt most of the people here are buddhists...
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Aphrodite Macbain: Their main principle is the same- do unto others etc...
Eliza Madrigal: brb door
Raffila Millgrove: I have listen carefully and with open mind.
Bruce Mowbray hopes to draw from all traditions. . . (whatever works best) -- and Christianity has MUCH to offer.
Raffila Millgrove: and this drawing from all traditions.. it's heavily weighted on the buddhist end. that's a comment made purely from obsevation.
Aphrodite Macbain: The world's great religions have a lot in common
Raffila Millgrove: gotta run.
Wol Euler: bye raffi
Aphrodite Macbain: True Raffi - w talk more about meditation than prayer, for instance
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. . . Buddhism seems more inclined to "experience" rather than dogma -- IMHO -- and PaB is geared to an exploration of experience.
Wol Euler: I think we do need to have that discussion though-
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe that's why, Raffi.
Fefonz Quan: yes, nicely phrased Bruce
Bruce Mowbray looks at hands.
Aphrodite Macbain wonders what Bruce is wearng..
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: back
Bruce Mowbray is proudly wearing the hat that Santoshima gave him . . . and also a jetpack.
Bruce Mowbray: because it matche3s the hat.
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm very handy
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: nice leather
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan thinks being an odd duck is not such a bad thing. been there, done that a few times :)
Eliza Madrigal: I usually say that Buddha gave Jesus back, but that doesn't go over well with relatives
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Wol Euler: yay, box<y'>
 Bruce Mowbray: Yo! Boxy!
Fefonz Quan: (Maybe for a Christian being the odd duck is a new experience.
Wol Euler: boxy's back
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Boxy :)
Fefonz Quan: Hi Boxy)
Wol Euler nods to fef and chuckles
Alfred Kelberry: furry girl :)
Fefonz Quan: we get that frequently, we are used to it :)
Alfred Kelberry: this is not a theme session?
Eliza Madrigal: people can do the same with buddhist teachings as has been done with Christian ... more about the openness than the tradition
Aphrodite Macbain: The more we learn about the other we find our commonalities
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to see the doggie boxy here again
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: nothing happens when I click his nose though
Bruce Mowbray: Both Christianity and Buddhism have been co-opted throughout the centuries -- by ones who would use those traditions for their own gain.
Alfred Kelberry: there's a difference, eliza. christinaity is an established religion with mandatory dogmas. buddhism is a set of recommendations and a way of life.
Eliza Madrigal: as you have been exposed to it
Bruce Mowbray: Christianity is also a deeply personal spiritual path. . .
Aphrodite Macbain: Eliza and Bruce have a special touch
Eliza Madrigal: so for many Christians think same... could have been exposed to various kinds of teachings
Alfred Kelberry: *waves to aph with his bone* :)
oO0Oo Resident: The simple forms at PaB offer an alternative.. secular and profound, but as easy to avoid engaging with, as to engage with.
Aphrodite Macbain: You dont think Buddhism has any dogma Boxy?
Alfred Kelberry: nope
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I bump into it daily
Aphrodite Macbain: almiost
Aphrodite Macbain: almost
Bruce Mowbray: yes, PaB offers a wonderful alternative way of knowing and exploring -- but PaB is not here to be an "other" --
Alfred Kelberry: it's very flexible with lots of interpretations and corresponding schools. one of which is pemayana :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: At least I don't see my participation in PaB to be opposed to other traditions. . . only one alternative among many.
Alfred Kelberry: many paths to choose from
Bruce Mowbray loves Pemayana!!!!
Alfred Kelberry: :
Alfred Kelberry: )
Fefonz Quan: "Buddhism" is such a big box with different approaches, it would be hard to point to it as one uniform thing Aph
Eliza Madrigal: yes 'not biting each other' in the PaB open context
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Kori!
Wol Euler: hello korel
Fefonz Quan: Oh, Pemayana is a wonderful name :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Nods at Fefonz. the middle way would be a start
Alfred Kelberry: try and do that with christianity. you will be labeled an infidel and cast away.
Eliza Madrigal: some start with 'god is love' and stay there..not a bad way to go
Aphrodite Macbain: no I dont think so Boxy
Aphrodite Macbain: there is a middle way in Christianity as well
Aphrodite Macbain: nods at Eliza
Korel Laloix: Heya
Alfred Kelberry: aph, tell more please
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Fef thanks for stimulating session
Alfred Kelberry: fefy :) good to see you
Aphrodite Macbain: love thine enemy, love thy neighbour, do unto others as they would do unto you. Teachngs of Buddha, Christ, Mohammed inter alia
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Fef -- Thank you!
Fefonz Quan: It is a fascinating theme, but my sleeping hours are slipping away...
Wol Euler: goodnight fef, hugs to the family
Aphrodite Macbain: Nite all you in Europe
Fefonz Quan: good night all, take care
Eliza Madrigal: Night Fef
oO0Oo Resident: Night fef
Alfred Kelberry: aph, that's a nice passage :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Fefonz Quan: and I am not in Europ, I am an odder duck ;-)
oO0Oo Resident: What was the theme?
Bruce Mowbray: Israel!
Aphrodite Macbain: where are you Fefonz?
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Aphrodite Macbain: Quack
Alfred Kelberry: you're a cute duck, fef :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Fefonz Quan: very close to the birth place of christianity :)
Alfred Kelberry: keep quacking :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Middle east?
Fefonz Quan: yey. well, it has a middle too :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, indeed. the holy land.
Bruce Mowbray thinks that the birthplace of Christianity might actually have been Rome, but thinks he should have kept that to himself.
Aphrodite Macbain: My middle is getting larger and wider by the day
Wol Euler: boom boom
Fefonz Quan: I tend to agree Bruce.
Aphrodite Macbain: a jew in Rome
Fefonz Quan: but maybe it was raised ther eafter it was kidnapped from here :)
Bruce Mowbray: . . . . sometimes I think that Jesus is/was almost completely irrelevant to what many think to be "Christian."
Alfred Kelberry: i think neither christ or mohammed would be pleased to see what's going on in the middle east these days
Aphrodite Macbain: How did he getto Israel. By fishing boat?
Fefonz Quan: (who?)
Bruce Mowbray: good point, boxy.
Aphrodite Macbain: Christ
Wol Euler: agreed
Fefonz Quan: he was born here of course
--BELL--
Fefonz Quan: (and who needs a boat when you can walk on the water?)
Wol Euler chuckles.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Alfred Kelberry: he was taken to babylon as a slave or prisoner, as i recall
Wol Euler: O.O
Aphrodite Macbain: Miracles R Us
Fefonz Quan (leaves while on top)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: best to do so :)
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Fef!
Aphrodite Macbain: tiptoes away
Eliza Madrigal: I like that PaB isn't secular in the sense that traditions aren't welcome, and teachings from various traditions included
Eliza Madrigal: bye Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: bYe
Bruce Mowbray: bye Aphhie!
Eliza Madrigal: many 'non-denominational' attempts seem to flatten things... feel PaB opens them dimensionally
Alfred Kelberry: traditions are welcomed. religions are not :P
Eliza Madrigal: :) well also don't want to get too caught with words...?
Eliza Madrigal: haha just tails
Wol Euler: indeed
Bruce Mowbray: I welcome methods for "practice" from wherever they might come . . . doesn't matter to me what the "religion" or "tradition" might be.
Wol Euler: I wouldn't wish to say that we do not welcome religions, boxy.
Korel Laloix: Not sure.... I am up front about my Faith, and have never been marginalized about it here.
Wol Euler: I think I know what you mean but that form of words goes too far for me
Alfred Kelberry: woly, it was a personal statement :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Korel
Wol Euler: thanks for the clarification
Bruce Mowbray: WHo know? Maybe 2,000 years from now, the 9 seconds drop will be the center of a religious empire!
Wol Euler: but I too must move on :)
Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care, be happy
Korel Laloix: I have had serious issues with some of the thoughts here though.. and I talked about those openly.
Eliza Madrigal: glad y/me laughs Bruce... can't imagine
Alfred Kelberry: i'm glad that pab is open to what's coming
Bruce Mowbray: g'night, Wol!
Wol Euler: drop well, but not on your toes
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol, ty, Night
Alfred Kelberry: be good, woly
Bruce Mowbray: alas, I should be thinking about food for my body as well as my . . . "spirit"???
Bruce Mowbray: so, g'night to all!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: “May you be free from suffering. May you experience joy and ease.”
Alfred Kelberry: spirit needs food :)
Eliza Madrigal: Korel I think that's the thing... we began talking about ton glen and metta-karuna
Eliza Madrigal: and then there was wondering about whether Christians may feel like odd ducks at times
Korel Laloix: About what?
Alfred Kelberry: ton what?
Korel Laloix: I do feel a bit out of place here sometimes for sure... but that is not an issue to me.
Eliza Madrigal: well these are traditionally 'buddhist' teachings I guess but one doesn't have to 'sign in' to do them
Eliza Madrigal: can be any tradition or none
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, they do in the middle of mecca, i suppose :)
Alfred Kelberry: kori, i think a lot of us feel the same :)
Eliza Madrigal: enjoy when various angles come up
Eliza Madrigal: when we've talked about grace it brings the presence of my great grandmother... sincere Christian woman
Eliza Madrigal: and I feel the same sort of love as when sitting 'extending compassion' in metta-karuna
Korel Laloix: I grew up hostile to any faith... now it is part of by being.. maybe the middle of my beeing.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, a kind of meditation of compassion?
Eliza Madrigal: yes...as in the place that Storm built for us
Korel Laloix: And I feel that this place adds to my focus sometimes.
Eliza Madrigal: "middle of my being" - nice
Korel Laloix: There is nothing more important to me than my relationship with Christ.... thus... my middle.
Alfred Kelberry: i think it's difficult to be outside of any group. sooner or later you find yourself steered some place.
Korel Laloix: That is true.... just so you know where it is going.. and if you want to go there.
Alfred Kelberry: as with relationship, it's preferable if this choice is made with clear mind :)
Eliza Madrigal: dropping categories seems a worthy exercise ... dropping every path, even if for moments...
Eliza Madrigal: freshening up :)
Korel Laloix: The thing for me was... an intelectual decision first... then a spiritual one.
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Made with very clear mind and purpose.
Alfred Kelberry: yes, eliza. although, i try to keep this in a practical manner.
Korel Laloix: Interesting thinking back.. not sure I bring up my Faith very often here. Need ot think about that for a bit.
Eliza Madrigal: I hope that's not because you feel it wouldn't be welcomed or that there isn't a context for sharing
Alfred Kelberry: *nods*
Korel Laloix: No.. just I dont' bring it up unless it means something.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: can respect that indeed
Korel Laloix: Recently, somone asked me if I had held a particular creation thought.
Korel Laloix: I said I don't find it an intersting question.
Alfred Kelberry: creation thought?
Korel Laloix: I could have brought up my Faith points, but I did not feel it pertinent.
Korel Laloix: How I thought the universe and life began.
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: did you feel they were asking for your script?
Korel Laloix: To me, God created all.. what methoed s/he used is not relivent to me...
Korel Laloix: Maybe... or maybe asking if I had Tsalagi idea about the subject.
Korel Laloix: Not sure.
Alfred Kelberry: and i think we will never know :)
Korel Laloix: Exactly, so not an intersting question to me.
Eliza Madrigal: ah :) yes the Tsalagi stories are fascinating
Alfred Kelberry: i have a tiny hope though that after death they explain this bit :)
Korel Laloix: All cultures have their ideas.. all are intersting to me.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: I have complete faith I will know.
Alfred Kelberry: kori, but it's important to ask these questions. they move us forward in understanding.
Eliza Madrigal: for me not so interesting either... but do find it fascinating that each time we think we know, knowledge open further
Eliza Madrigal: so some inherent mystery
Korel Laloix: Do they...... a question that can not be answered.. is.. not a good question to work on.
Korel Laloix: brb
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: depends on your framework and tools being used
Alfred Kelberry: you can answer the same question in various degree of detail and perspectives
Eliza Madrigal nods nods
Eliza Madrigal: and some answers feel to contradict
Eliza Madrigal: as with time
Eliza Madrigal: btw, interesting interview with author of book "Imagine"... re insight and complexity
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12302
Alfred Kelberry: eliza poofs
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) been on a while
Eliza Madrigal: please say bye bye to Kori for me, Night Boxy
Alfred Kelberry: and playfully turning left and right :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: bye, eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal waves
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: back
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Alfred Kelberry: eliza says bye :)
Korel Laloix: Feeling boxed in today?
Korel Laloix: /em smiles
Alfred Kelberry: nope
Korel Laloix: What you up to?
Alfred Kelberry: do you like country?
Alfred Kelberry: i'm coding stuff
Alfred Kelberry: boxy is mostly idle here
Korel Laloix: Country music you mean?
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Korel Laloix: Some.. but mostly for dancing or when I am really feeling depressed.
Korel Laloix: Why?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i've some religious country :)
Alfred Kelberry: wondered if you'd like it
Korel Laloix: My whom?
Korel Laloix: By
Alfred Kelberry: http://up.keep.se:8000/play
Alfred Kelberry: there you go
Alfred Kelberry: "no compromise"
Alfred Kelberry: it's from the fairbanks country festival
Korel Laloix: At work so, no sound... will keep it for later though.. THanks.
Korel Laloix: As in Alaska Fairbanks.
Alfred Kelberry: ouch, that's harsh
Korel Laloix: ?
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Korel Laloix: OK.. back in a ibit maybe...
Alfred Kelberry: can't be without music at work place :)
Alfred Kelberry: be good!
Korel Laloix: ?me smiles
Korel Laloix: Ciao/p>