2012.05.03 19:00 – Stopping to Smell the Roses

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant.  Participants included Raffila and stevenaia.

Paradise Tennant: hiya Raf my apologies for being so late
Paradise Tennant: how are you tonight?
Raffila Millgrove: Hi paradise.
Raffila Millgrove: I was just.. reading logs.. of meetings in the last day or so... catching up.
Raffila Millgrove: all these new people came.
Raffila Millgrove: in the past week several interesting new people have come.
Paradise Tennant: ahh ok
Raffila Millgrove: yes.
Raffila Millgrove: it's good to see new people.
Paradise Tennant: yes lovely the ebb and flow of conversation new ideas and  new people :)
Raffila Millgrove: I’d like to get out of this spot as the newbie. lol
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Raffila Millgrove: I need some behind me.
Raffila Millgrove: haha
Paradise Tennant: this is an easy group I think :)
Raffila Millgrove: Wester is feeling much better now.. we had nice visit in the early morning.. she's going to move to hew house with garden. I am so happy for her.
Paradise Tennant: ahh !
Paradise Tennant: nothing like a garden :)
Raffila Millgrove: yes!
Raffila Millgrove: she didn’t' have one . where she is now. only a balcony. and of course with children.. you really need one.
Paradise Tennant: yes indeed
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: is your garden starting to bloom Raf ?
Raffila Millgrove: well. I had a little horrible setback.
Raffila Millgrove: as life will send you. I topped up my.. pots. with a very good brand of garden .. pot soil.... and it was . something wrong with it. the fertilizer in it. was not right. was 100 times over what it should have been.
Raffila Millgrove: and so stuff died in horrible manner.
Raffila Millgrove: it was not happy
Raffila Millgrove: the people at the manufacturing. they were willing to work out a deal with me.. on the losses.
Paradise Tennant: oh no
Raffila Millgrove: but you know.. forget the money. no money could pay for .. seeing my gardenia huge huge bush.. die. heartbreaking. and the fuchsias etc and the new roses.
Paradise Tennant: ouch
Raffila Millgrove: all that death in my place of peace.. all those years of bringing that bush up from a baby.
Paradise Tennant: sounds heartbreaking
Raffila Millgrove: I told them.. of just forget money. this isn't about any money..
Raffila Millgrove: well.. what can you do.
Raffila Millgrove: I just. take out the dead stuff. clean out the pots.. start over again. a lot of things were ok.
Raffila Millgrove: I have been thru this kind of horror before.
Raffila Millgrove: one day deer came in.. a whole family. And they simply ate my roses.
Raffila Millgrove: the whole bush.
Paradise Tennant: yes life is uncertain at best
Raffila Millgrove: how a deer could eat stems with sharp thorns? this I cannot imagine. but they did it.
Paradise Tennant: find the deer easier somehow
Raffila Millgrove: it took two years to get over that one.
Raffila Millgrove: then one summer the thrips came..
Raffila Millgrove: like you hear of the locusts. they came down the hill from forest. in hordes and killed a lot of stuff that way.
Paradise Tennant: yikes
Raffila Millgrove: we live on edge of forest. last house.. so.. we are.. like enroaching on nature.. encroaching? anyway.. we are the outsider.. so we gotta accept that .. we're going to .. have losses.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: I find PAB is a wealth of the little things
Raffila Millgrove: but I didn't really expect to be screwed by the manufacturer of potting soil.. that really knocked me over.
Paradise Tennant: little glimpses into the lives of others their triumphs their challenges their heartbreak
Raffila Millgrove: on the upside I have butterflies and bees and hummingbirds and many of these rare species of birds. like even endangered ones. the red tailed hawk I think it's called.
Paradise Tennant: wow
Raffila Millgrove: yeah. and beautiful skies.. and mountains.. so. cannot complain on these horrible loss features. just life.
Raffila Millgrove: had to reschedule Easter tho.
Paradise Tennant: http://www.google.ca/search?q=red+ta...iw=989&bih=844
Raffila Millgrove: took the stuffing out of us. had to redo the holiday later.
Raffila Millgrove: yep that's the one.
Raffila Millgrove: is it endangered?
Paradise Tennant: nope quite a healthy species
Raffila Millgrove: ah. well I get the right name later. I do this a lot.
Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-tailed_Hawk
Raffila Millgrove: mix up. it's aphasia.
Paradise Tennant: ahh ok
Raffila Millgrove: yesterday I was discussing some dr. called Vera Moss and naturally I got the name wrong on that.
Paradise Tennant: pretty common
Raffila Millgrove: I have that on the list to get the right name.
Raffila Millgrove: well I call my children by wrong names regularly to their face.. and I cannot find words like wastebasket.
Raffila Millgrove: in fact. I was going to tell you the name of the plant outside.
Raffila Millgrove: oh
Paradise Tennant: hmm eat more black berries :)
Raffila Millgrove: oleander.
Paradise Tennant: and drink more pomegranate juice :(
Raffila Millgrove: ok. well if I can remember oleander. it means I am having a pretty good day. so.. it only took a minute for me to haul it out.
Raffila Millgrove: I got this as a side effect of cancer meds... and while other side effects did get better. that one didn't.
Raffila Millgrove: where do you live. are you near nature?
Paradise Tennant: such a hard thing to deal with cancer
Raffila Millgrove: ack. compared to other things I lived thru. .it really wasn't that bad.
Paradise Tennant: no I am in Toronto downtown :) amidst sky scrapers
Raffila Millgrove: oh wow. the city scape. how neat.
Paradise Tennant: it is nice
Raffila Millgrove: I think cancer.. depends on.. individuals a lot.. how they are going to deal with it.
Raffila Millgrove: my only biggest worry was my children were so young. that was the worst.
Raffila Millgrove: making sure they would be ok.. because I have no family. none.
Raffila Millgrove: I had to line up .. a friend to take them.
Raffila Millgrove: that was not easy. to figure out who. and to ask them.
Raffila Millgrove: once she said yes. then I was ok.
Paradise Tennant: oh my
--BELL--
Raffila Millgrove: well you get cancer. you find out who your friends are. that’s for sure. you find out a lot of strangers are there to help you. it's not that bad. .when you find all how many people care about you.
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: yes we are all connected
Raffila Millgrove: my daughter said to me.. years later.. that she will always remember how I handled it. and looking back on it.. as an adult. she felt I did really good on it.. so that. made me so happy. that she thought to tell me that.
Paradise Tennant: smiles a very big smile
Raffila Millgrove: that in case anything like that happens to her. she said I modelled the behavior of what do to ..
Paradise Tennant: yes always nice to know .. to be able to see a bit through someone else's eyes
Raffila Millgrove: well that is what you hope. that you set up your children to live their lives on their own. with some good idea how to get thru things good and bad.
Paradise Tennant: yes indeed
Raffila Millgrove: I did not want them scared. but I couldn’t lie either. fine line.
Raffila Millgrove: mostly I laughed. I made it funny.. like silly inconveniences to deal with.
Raffila Millgrove: I am not sorry it happened. it made me do that bucket list.. long before most people do.. I did everything I need to do.. so now I can die anytime.
Raffila Millgrove: so it's ok. I lived wonderful years as result of it.
Paradise Tennant: yes do not think dying is that bad really
Paradise Tennant: at least for the person who is doing it
Raffila Millgrove: most people. they aren't afraid actual death.
Paradise Tennant: not so easy for those left behind
Raffila Millgrove: what they find.. is people don’t' want to suffer. and they don't want to put their loved ones thru. watching them suffer. that's really where the fear lies. not in death.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Raffila Millgrove: it's over pain and suffering.
Raffila Millgrove: I have a friend. he is a dr. who specializes in end of life and he told me.. gosh I wish the drs would send their patients to me sooner. I could do so much to make their last months.. painless and happier.
Raffila Millgrove: but he gets them 30 days. usually.. before they go and all his training and knowledge it's wasted because the referral drs and the patient’s families don't want to "give up".
Paradise Tennant: hmmm
Paradise Tennant: funny it more like seeing what is than giving up a what is that will be there for us all
Raffila Millgrove: one thing. I think might be true about a lot of people here at PaB. I think. they are more likely to know when to give up and to.. do it.
Raffila Millgrove: by giving up.. I mean letting go of this life.
Paradise Tennant: dropping
Raffila Millgrove: yes dropping.
Raffila Millgrove: yes. I think they are. more likely to know.. when is good and not to let. others.. hold onto them.
Raffila Millgrove: this is hard. to .. help the ones around you.. let you go.
Paradise Tennant: you know the best way to do that is to clearly show you are ready to go
Paradise Tennant: my dad did that he made his passing  easy for everyone else ..actually pulled the sheet over his own head
Raffila Millgrove: oh my.
Raffila Millgrove: gosh.
Raffila Millgrove: brave man. very courageous. very strong person eh?
Paradise Tennant: yes
Raffila Millgrove: you have to admire, respect that kind of strength in a person.
Paradise Tennant: nods
Raffila Millgrove: is your mom still with you?
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: she did ok throughout
Paradise Tennant: she is very resilient very wise .. I am lucky
Raffila Millgrove: you know in Japan. where my daughter lives.
Raffila Millgrove: her husband. grandfather died recently after long illness.
Raffila Millgrove: and grandma seemed to be ok. and then suddenly
--BELL--
Raffila Millgrove: she lost her mind entirely. became a very different person. suspicious. thinking everyone is stealing from her. she doesn't recognize her daughter in law who is trying to care for her. the family is a wreck in this sudden decline of grandma.
Paradise Tennant: now that is really horrible
Paradise Tennant: to lose your essence like that to not be the person you are
Raffila Millgrove: the daughter in law had to go stay with her own family for a few days as she really loves her mother in law. and is beside herself.
Raffila Millgrove: the husband doesn't want the son to come.. up to where they live to see grandma. everyone is beside themselves.
Raffila Millgrove: my daughter doesn't know what to do in all of it.
Raffila Millgrove: cause the customs are different. she's not sure . what to do or not do.
Raffila Millgrove: that stuff.. is so scary.. losing your mind.. and all around you.. losing theirs too in the shock of it.
Raffila Millgrove: it was so sudden. just over night. like a stroke. but not a stroke.
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Para, Raffi
Paradise Tennant: yes really awful but getting medical help .. prayer .. would my choices
Raffila Millgrove: hi Steve.
Paradise Tennant: hello stev
Raffila Millgrove: they think. it was shock of losing husband. that. did it.
Paradise Tennant: we are talking of loss :)
Raffila Millgrove: he was sick for so long.. you know.. in a way.. you get used to caring for him.. so close. suddenly he is gone.
Paradise Tennant: and not being fussed by it
Raffila Millgrove: I am telling how my daughter's husband.. his grandma.. she lost her husband and a month later has lost her own mind and the family is beside them self.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Raffila Millgrove: because it's in Japan.. the customs are different. my daughter doesn't know what to do.. or not do.
Paradise Tennant: Pema might help there he understands the culture
Raffila Millgrove: her mother in law.. she escaped home to her own family. she collapsed in trying to take care of the old lady.
Raffila Millgrove: cause she loves her very much. and the old lady doesn't recognize her. it happened over night.
Raffila Millgrove: she and her husband. they moved up into these mountains.. to take care of the old couple.
Paradise Tennant: it may pass you know
Raffila Millgrove: well it will. has to.
Paradise Tennant: maybe a kind of wave of grief
Raffila Millgrove: cannot go on in this .. state of confusion. it's just shock right now.
Raffila Millgrove: they will get some handle on it. the father. he runs a hospital. he has great resources at his fingertips.
Raffila Millgrove: I think she is just so shocked they cannot think straight.
Raffila Millgrove: they. I mean.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: we think life is going to go on just the same and then one day it doesn't
stevenaia Michinaga: I know for recent friend in crisis, they appreciated having a friend assist with clear thinking
Raffila Millgrove: well because of the customs.. my daughter who is great in situations like this.. they don't want her to interfere. she has to stay out of it.
stevenaia Michinaga: aww
Raffila Millgrove: so she is keeping quiet . and just.. not able to do. anything. which she feels bad of course.
Raffila Millgrove: they don't want.. her and husband to come.. They are worried that her husband cannot take this. they treat him like a child. a lot.
Raffila Millgrove: which isn’t great? cause then he acts like one. lol
Raffila Millgrove: but the father is in charge of the family so my daughter must obey him.
--BELL--
Raffila Millgrove: I am a matriarch. he is a patriarch. we understand each other. we both ok in hierarchies and so are the children.. so .. it's ok. someday my daughter will be a matriarch.
Raffila Millgrove: I guess you maybe find that strange? we agreed about ten years ago that she will be my successor and all the rest agreed in it.
Paradise Tennant: well every group usually has some kind of leadership
Raffila Millgrove: maybe a lot of families. defacto operate that way without naming it. we just happen to name it.
stevenaia Michinaga: strange when culture constrains what individual might do to better a situation
Raffila Millgrove: it might seem like that. but.. if an individual will make others uncomfortable doing "the right thing' maybe it's better if they do the wrong thing awhile.. until they can pull selves together.
Paradise Tennant: yes it is coming to a determination of what betters a situation I guess
Paradise Tennant: sigh I am sleepy I think I will say thank you and good night :) and ponder betterment when I am giving the pup his last walk :)
Raffila Millgrove: that father has to be the one.. to call the shots in this. even . if he is temporarily not doing so hot.
stevenaia Michinaga: night Paradise
Paradise Tennant: Namaste my friends :))
Raffila Millgrove: bye Para. thank you for sharing the time.
stevenaia Michinaga: sleep well
Raffila Millgrove: hehe some strange loss conversations you missed Steve. cannot say they were all that cheery. lol
Raffila Millgrove: altho Para spoke of her father's passing which. was very brave and admirable.
Raffila Millgrove: on her father's part . I mean.
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be interested in reading it
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Raffila Millgrove: heh. you got to wade thru a lot of horticultural horror story to get to it.
Raffila Millgrove: skip that part.
stevenaia Michinaga: I am learning about flowers by watching spouse grow things
Raffila Millgrove: ah.
Raffila Millgrove: what is she growing now?
stevenaia Michinaga: it’s safer for the flowers that way
Raffila Millgrove: haha
stevenaia Michinaga: garden things, a truck load of mulch is waiting for me (heavy lifting)
stevenaia Michinaga: roses and other things with Latin names
Raffila Millgrove: oh roses. excellent. they are so rewarding.
stevenaia Michinaga: and pretty colors
Raffila Millgrove: the way they give you such. huge pay off.
stevenaia Michinaga: and smell so nice, each so different
Raffila Millgrove: yes.
Raffila Millgrove: I have them all in pots.
stevenaia Michinaga: there are some that I like that she does not even smell
Raffila Millgrove: many varieties. but even the hybrid tea. I learned to grow in pot.
stevenaia Michinaga: strange about smells
Raffila Millgrove: yes. the roses.. have such widely different smells. some so light.
stevenaia Michinaga: like colors, what is red, what is a sweet rose, are they all so individual
stevenaia Michinaga: no way to compare my "red" and your red
Raffila Millgrove: you now even if you have two bushes of same variety.. they can be different. bush to bush.
Raffila Millgrove: each rose. is like a real person to me.. well not a person but you know what I mean. individual bush.
Raffila Millgrove: own personality.
Raffila Millgrove: some talk. some don't.
stevenaia Michinaga: there is a rose garden in town that I go to now and then and just to smell the roses
Raffila Millgrove: you now Steve. try talking to them. some talk back. it's kind of amazing.
Raffila Millgrove: they whisper. . in your mind.
Raffila Millgrove: and others simply do not. they hear but they won't talk. same as dogs.
Raffila Millgrove: my current dog .. she will not talk much. I am trying to train her to talk.
stevenaia Michinaga: my cat talks allot
Raffila Millgrove: my last dog. oh. he would not say one world just would not do it.... we had to agree. that he was not saying a thing.
stevenaia Michinaga: very demanding
--BELL--
Raffila Millgrove: oh gosh a cat can be so chatty . I had a great one once. cats are champion talkers if you get one who wants to. so neat. what kind is yours?
stevenaia Michinaga: generic gray tabby
stevenaia Michinaga: over 12
stevenaia Michinaga: very active
Raffila Millgrove: ah. they are homey. they live a long times don't they   some to 20
stevenaia Michinaga: we have had many cats to their old age
Raffila Millgrove: yes. greys. they are big dogs. and they don't last that great.
Raffila Millgrove: sadly.
Raffila Millgrove: but we have these herbs and so forth. my mentor in it.. she gets the dogs to 16 which is way beyond their normal span of about 10
Raffila Millgrove: this CQ 10.. it's really good for aging dogs.
Raffila Millgrove: I hear it's maybe good for aging people too
stevenaia Michinaga: never heard of it
Raffila Millgrove: oh you should look into it.
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10
Raffila Millgrove: we have this whole formula she figured out.. of small supplements to their meals.. so they really last six years more.
Raffila Millgrove: all the dogs who use her plan really last longer times. by far.
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
stevenaia Michinaga: I need to sleep now
Raffila Millgrove: oh .. well sleep well Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: nice chatting, Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: excuse me. I type that (r) all the time by mistake.
Raffila Millgrove: Good night Steve.
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Raffila Millgrove: bye xo