2012.05.13 19:00 - Facing, Finding, Order, Chaos

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Cal, Para
Paradise Tennant: hiya stev ..cal ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: there was a grifter here earlier as a vampire, very annoying, had to ban him
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, para, stev, cal .. :)
Paradise Tennant: hmm we hardly ever get grief
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, but he was parasitic
Calvino Rabeni: oh?
stevenaia Michinaga: needed to bite me sort of thing, hoping I bored him to death
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: well you do look tasty stev could hardly blame him
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but eventually you have your fill
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: you let him bite you ?
stevenaia Michinaga: I can live with a taste, not a meal
stevenaia Michinaga: no idea, just booted him as he was attached to me, would not let go
Paradise Tennant: ahh we missed all the excitement lol
stevenaia Michinaga: moved very fast, dificult to select to ban him
stevenaia Michinaga: but when seated he couldn't attached himself to me so he left when I wondered into another sim
Calvino Rabeni: sounds like a mosquito
Paradise Tennant: well likely would starve if he was slow this is making me giggle
stevenaia Michinaga: very much so, it was a bit tormenting for a bit
Paradise Tennant: it is always interesting how our little cartoons are an extension of ourselves and as such have their own little personal spaces :)
stevenaia Michinaga: like being grabbed ahold of by a rabid animal
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Paradise Tennant: we could talk of things that drain us :) it seems to be the topic opening :) unless you had a theme cal ?
stevenaia Michinaga: Aph was suggesting judgements fo the weeks theme but may be the same :)
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds like a good theme
Calvino Rabeni: better than what I had in mind
Calvino Rabeni: "why cats eat your earbuds"
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: that is an interesting one too :)
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps they remind them of toes, which they also eat
Calvino Rabeni: and earplugs
Paradise Tennant: why my dog scratches the floor when he is happy is something .. I would like a deeper understanding of :)
Calvino Rabeni: any small morsel will do
Paradise Tennant: actually they are just letting you know you should buy proper earphones earbuds hurt your hearing :)
stevenaia Michinaga: does what drains us relate to our judgements?
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: yes our attachments our circle thoughts very much I think if we drop there is not much that can drain you
Calvino Rabeni: or energize you
Calvino Rabeni: ?
Calvino Rabeni: then you're disconnected from the energy flow of life going through?
Paradise Tennant: hmm don't you think there is lots that can energize you ? even if you drop
Paradise Tennant: because what you are dropping is the loops .. what in fact take you away from the flow
Calvino Rabeni: Draining seems to mean, slowly decreasing energy
stevenaia Michinaga: I see it as meaning r interfearing with balance
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: What if we compare it to the idea of "stress" .. does that turn out to be similar?
Paradise Tennant: hmm stress is so subjective .. it is a byproduct of how we compose our thoughts
Calvino Rabeni: Balance there might mean, a natural equilibrium that is dynamic, not fixed
Calvino Rabeni: stress seems to me, like draining, to incorporate divided loyalties
sCalvino Rabeni: for instance, desire combined with fear, leading to neither engagement, nor withdrawal and separation
tevenaia Michinaga: nods, to much draining ot to much energy
stevenaia Michinaga: this recent grifter created moments of stress for me, could not grab him to ban him, could not go anywhere with him "buzzing" around me, took much time to rebalance
Paradise Tennant: gives stev a hug unpleasant when someone attacks you
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: do you speak of being frozen of sorts, Cal
Calvino Rabeni: double-weighted in tai chi metaphor
Paradise Tennant: ahh not one footed !
Calvino Rabeni: frozen might be one of two things, either conflicting energies that balance and deadlock, or something like the energy plug being disconnected
Calvino Rabeni: these would be different experiences of non-movement
stevenaia Michinaga: which do you speak of?
stevenaia Michinaga: "neither engagement nor withdrawal and separation"
Calvino Rabeni: I'd guess that would be draining to be maintaining divided and conflicting energies
Calvino Rabeni: like having the accelerator and the brake on at the same time in a car
Calvino Rabeni: but interestingly that's what planes do before they need to take off
Calvino Rabeni: it's useful sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: but when protracted, it gets draining
Paradise Tennant: yes or facing situations you cannot fix or offer substantive help .. to
stevenaia Michinaga: to overcome inertia
Calvino Rabeni: yes (to both)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: I think you need to take a blank page to things
Paradise Tennant: to parts of yourself parts of your life parts of your work
Calvino Rabeni: that would help under some conditions wouldn't it?
Paradise Tennant: and start over or at the very least revisit
Paradise Tennant: if you don't parse back and reexamine you can get stuck
Calvino Rabeni: sleep is a good way to do that :)
Calvino Rabeni: start over every morning fresh
Calvino Rabeni: meditation can do the same
Calvino Rabeni: maybe even better
Paradise Tennant: sleep is good :) always find when I am my most troubled will just let it go and go to bed and it always looks so different in the morning
Calvino Rabeni: nods
--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: I think I have become more inspired from sleep than meditation, but I do tend to sleep more
Paradise Tennant: will often wake up in the middle of the nite with an answer
Paradise Tennant: funny how it percolates through your brain
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and often that goes on when waking in the morning
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to know it keeps working on things in the background
Paradise Tennant: yes like background computing
Paradise Tennant: or accessing
Calvino Rabeni: yes, sleeping has a problem solving function
Paradise Tennant: think the answers are always there it is just triggering the right synapse
Calvino Rabeni: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: there are always many answers, just a matter of agreeing which is acceptable to you
Calvino Rabeni: "To sleep on it" could be an instruction from the stories of Chuang Tzu
stevenaia Michinaga: agreeing with ...yourself
Calvino Rabeni: Like the saying .. a sculptor, I forget who .. that the form is inside the block of marble, all one needs to do is be able to see it and slowly remove the other parts of the block
Paradise Tennant: Rodin
Calvino Rabeni: thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think there's a parallel Taoist story
Calvino Rabeni: probably involving wood instead of stone

The Woodcarver

Khing, the master carver, made a bell stand
Of precious wood. When it was finished,
All who saw it were astounded. They said it must be
The work of spirits.
The Prince of Lu said to the master carver:
"What is your secret?"

Khing replied: "I am only a workman:
I have no secret. There is only this:
When I began to think about the work you commanded
I guarded my spirit, did not expend it
On trifles, that were not to the point.
I fasted in order to set
My heart at rest.
After three days fasting,
I had forgotten gain and success.
After five days
I had forgotten praise or criticism.
After seven days
I had forgotten my body
With all its limbs.

"By this time all thought of your Highness
And of the court had faded away.
All that might distract me from the work
Had vanished.
I was collected in the single thought
Of the bell stand.

"Then I went to the forest
To see the trees in their own natural state.
When the right tree appeared before my eyes,
The bell stand also appeared in it, clearly, beyond doubt.
All I had to do was to put forth my hand
and begin.

"If I had not met this particular tree
There would have been
No bell stand at all.

"What happened?
My own collected thought
Encountered the hidden potential in the wood;
From this live encounter came the work
Which you ascribe to the spirits."

-- The Way of Chuang Tzu, translated by Thomas Merton
 

stevenaia Michinaga: An infinite number of "solutions" reside inside a stone
stevenaia Michinaga: Rodin's are just a bit nicer
Calvino Rabeni: it seems like that technique actually requires the existence a wealth of conflicting knowledge "within"
Calvino Rabeni: as a metaphor for the mind/soul
Calvino Rabeni: the same conditions that structure stress and draining
stevenaia Michinaga: ponders conflict between mind and soul, how are you defining soul?
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: listens carefuly :)))
Calvino Rabeni: As the parts and pattern of ourselves we find un-definable ! :)
stevenaia Michinaga: (in the next 20 minutes)
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Calvino Rabeni: That's it :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: I will venture it is our doorway :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Paradise Tennant: that opens to beyond
Calvino Rabeni: A lot of it - stress or insight - isn't truly "within" - depends on ... expresses, actually, one's relationships to something ... a connection between "internal" and "external"
Calvino Rabeni: For instance I might read a news article about an anti-american demonstration ... fill in your "country" or your group-of-identification in that slot ...
Calvino Rabeni: so it doesn't mean much .. I've heard it all before perhaps
Calvino Rabeni: but then, a close friend speaks of a friend having those sentiments, and it gets a lot closer, comes into meaningfulness
Calvino Rabeni: and then I feel a pinch, a pain
Calvino Rabeni: because it's in my near social field
Calvino Rabeni: because that person a friend of a friend, potentially a friend
Calvino Rabeni: I would have a desire to be liked by
Calvino Rabeni: and their attitude prejudices that
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: so what pinches you .. relates to connectedness
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Ewan
Paradise Tennant: but if you expand that we are all connected so there is universal pinch going on :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan :)
Calvino Rabeni nods ... the ground beneath alienation is belonging
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks..
Calvino Rabeni: not sure ...
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ewan
Calvino Rabeni: the univesal pinch, hmmm
Paradise Tennant: we are talking of what drains us . what constitutes our soul ;) ....
Calvino Rabeni: does it help to be more differentiated?
Calvino Rabeni: could it lead to a pan-en-theistic sense of things?
Calvino Rabeni: or to a loss of a feeling of sacredness
Paradise Tennant: sigh and has to google panentheistic
Paradise Tennant: lol
Calvino Rabeni: means, god in every physical thing universally
Calvino Rabeni: in the particulars
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: divine throughout
Paradise Tennant: sort of boils down to "all good "
Calvino Rabeni: it's the experience william blake spoke of
stevenaia Michinaga: :) less draining when all is good
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: well one tastedness
Paradise Tennant: so what we consider bad is not so bad
Calvino Rabeni: I meant, maybe, what Blake meant by
Calvino Rabeni: "To see a world in a grain of sand, And a heaven in a wild flower, Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, And eternity in an hour"
Paradise Tennant: smiles that is something to dream on isn't it :)
Calvino Rabeni: There is an aspect of "unrequited love" too in that situation of draining
Paradise Tennant: to quote to yourself in the bath .. or under the stars :)) while doing laundry or eating ice cream
Paradise Tennant: hmm thinks true love is so in abundance there cannot be anything unrequited about it :) it is all embracing :)
Paradise Tennant: it is the fundamental flow
Paradise Tennant: we are its creation
Calvino Rabeni: The bite of ice cream was "heavenly"
Calvino Rabeni: Or the clean laundry, the surfaces shiny and bright, everything with a bit of spiritual glow
Calvino Rabeni: it must be a more advanced awareness practice to love the dust, the clutter
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: or just to be one with it :)
Calvino Rabeni: perhaps that's a case of divided loyalties
Calvino Rabeni: embracing chaos
Paradise Tennant: I think order and chaos both have appeal they both engage you
Calvino Rabeni: (snap occurrence)
Paradise Tennant: there is a creativity in .. chaos
stevenaia Michinaga: both can be appriciated for that they offer
Calvino Rabeni: a generativity
Paradise Tennant: yes life is meant to be messy there is no getting around it
Calvino Rabeni: chaos is a mirror, showing the edges within oneself, the me / not me lines
Calvino Rabeni: rather than an objective configuration
Calvino Rabeni: chaos could be a label for seeing outside the I
Calvino Rabeni: don't many things have two faces like that?
--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: chaos is what it is, to be accepted, order is usually made
Paradise Tennant: smiles time for me to say thank you and good nite .. getting sleepy :) time to dream of eternity in an hour and hold infinity in my hand :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: night Para
stevenaia Michinaga: I should be off as well, very sleepie
Paradise Tennant: nite nite namaste my friends :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: night Ewan, Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Para :)
Calvino Rabeni: Stev, and Ewan
Calvino Rabeni: I like that statement stev made before leaving...there's a lot in it
Calvino Rabeni: "chaos is what it is, to be accepted, order is usually made"
Calvino Rabeni: it suggests, something of the gist of the Woodcarver story, about the process of coming into relationship with what is, of participating with it, is what makes chaos into order, and not necessarily by physically changing its external state...rather regarding relation and ritual than regulation and rearrangement.

RRRRRR :)