2008.10.04 19:00 - Responding to the Intention, not the Message

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    Stim was the guardian for this session. He sent the chat log to me, Pema. I put it up and provided a title.

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Stim :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Adelene! How are you today?
    Adelene Dawner: Good. Thoughtful.
    Adelene Dawner: You?
    Stim Morane: Tired ... I've been running a weekend retreat.
    Adelene Dawner: ah. Good tired, then. :)
    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Three :)
    Stim Morane: Well, I also didn't sleep last night.
    Stim Morane: Hi Threedee.
    Adelene Dawner: ah :(

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Adams
    Stim Morane: Hi Adams!
    Adelene Dawner: Three, you seem to have misplaced your tail.
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Adelene, Stim and Threedee :)
    Threedee Shepherd: hi folks

    Adelene Dawner: So I have an update on the bible study situation.
    Adelene Dawner: If anyone's interested.
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Avastu, Dakini :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Dakini
    Dakini Rhode: hi :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Avastu and Dakini
    Stim Morane: Hi Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friends
    Dakini Rhode: back atcha Avastu :)
    Avastu Maruti smiles

    Adams Dubrovna: yes Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: I mentioned it to my boss, doing my best "this doesn't bother me but" song and dance first. She was *pissed*. They won't be back.
    Adams Dubrovna smiles
    Adelene Dawner: Part of the reaction was interesting though.
    Threedee Shepherd: mmm
    Adelene Dawner: She and two other co-workers felt the need to appologize to me on behalf of Christians-in-general, and reassure me that that was some kind of fluke... It's *not* a fluke, I well know (uncommon, but not a fluke), and appologizing for someone else just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
    Adams Dubrovna: Hmm. It seems lke a nice gesture on the part of your boss though
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not quite sure what to say to that, Adams... I see how she would intend it that way, I guess.
    Adelene Dawner: (We've wandered into one of those areas of social interaction in which I'm really, really weird, I think.)
    Adams Dubrovna: Not weird. It was a difficult situation for you and it seems your boss realized it
    Adelene Dawner: ...except that it wasn't difficult...
    Adams Dubrovna: uncomfortable?
    Adelene Dawner: It had the potential to become difficult, which is why I mentioned it - I wanted a record that it had been happening from that point in time. But it wasn't a problem.
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not sure that I managed to actually *communicate* that it wasn't a problem, though. That's the kind of situation where people make assumptions, and taking the time to correct the assumption would have just made things more complicated.
    Threedee Shepherd: One key point this illustrates is how easily and often people make all sorts of unstated assumptions that they beleive "everyone" agrees with.
    Adelene Dawner: yes
    Adams Dubrovna withdraws any unstated assumptions
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Mongo
    Threedee Shepherd: Threedee Shepherd: The best advice I ever received in that regard, when I was young, is, respond to the simple meaning of the words that were said. (It either causes clarification, or drives 'em crazy:)
    Stim Morane: Hi Mongo
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Mongo
    Mongo McGinnis: namaste everyone
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend

    Adelene Dawner: Honestly, I don't mind that kind of situation. In this case, it could have caused some problems (not ll the residents know that I'm not Christian, and some of them would react badly to that knowledge), but I don't actually mind being preached at.
    Threedee Shepherd: I suspect you would mind after a number of repetitions ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Perhaps, if my memory was working particularly well for a while. ^.-
    Adelene Dawner: One thing I've learned in general when dealing with normal folks is that it's important to respond to the intention, not the message. The intention of people preaching at me is to try to be helpful, even if the actual message is very very wrong.
    Adams Dubrovna: One thing your supervisor might have seen is that i had the potential to interfere with your work
    Adams Dubrovna: it had
    Adelene Dawner: Yes; that's part of why I brought it to her.

    Threedee Shepherd: perhaps we could broaden this to discuss "advice",, "constructive criticism", "teaching", and "offering lessons"?
    Adelene Dawner: Sure, Three.
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, often the real message is "I" believe "you" should behave in such-and so-way. Hardly useful.
    Adelene Dawner: What I was just saying can be easily broadened to cover any situation where someone is trying to give you advice... if they're trying to be helpful, respond to that, in the moment, and consider the message of the advice as a separate issue.
    Adelene Dawner: It can be useful, Three - it just needs to be explored first. (Which reminds me, I think I've found a useful iteration of that pattern we've been talking about re: career...)
    Threedee Shepherd: you will need to provide context to the group I think.
    Adelene Dawner: Well, it does tie in... Three's been giving me the advice "I think you should have a career more suited to your skills" for some time now. ^.^

    Adams Dubrovna read the log but is falling asleep. Must go. Sorry. bye
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Adams.
    Stim Morane: Bye Adams
    Threedee Shepherd: bye adams
    Stim Morane: I'm in a similar situation, haven't slept much lately and will need to go shortly.
    Adelene Dawner: ok, Stim.
    Stim Morane: Sorry to be so pokey.
    Adelene Dawner: No worries ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: Anyway, yeah, Three's been pushing that advice for a while. And it's a tricky area for me, for a lot of fairly complicated reasons. But thinking about it has been useful.
    Dakini Rhode: I must make my apologies as well although it was nice seeing a few familiar av faces i haven't seen for awhile
    Adelene Dawner: ok, Dakini. G'night. ^.^
    Stim Morane: Yes, it was nice to see you, Dakini! I look forward to a chat sometime.
    Dakini Rhode: indeed :)
    Mongo McGinnis: good nite
    Stim Morane: When I'm more rested
    Threedee Shepherd: g'nite
    Dakini Rhode: on htis side as well :)
    Stim Morane: Bye all!
    Adelene Dawner: Three says I should ask him why he's been offering that advice, and that sounds like a good question. ^.-
    Threedee Shepherd: byr
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