2008.10.19 08:00 - SL and RL and Waving and Smiling

At this week's guardian meeting in the Hall of Appearance, we talked mostly about the Princeton meeting in RL, where several of us where still present. I, Pema, present the chat log here without further comments. It was great to meet so many guardians in RL, 13 in total, and the conversations below give you some impression of our impressions :).

Moon Fargis: hi pema
Pema Pera: hi Moon!
Riddle Sideways: hi everybody
Pema Pera: Hi all!
Maxine Walden: hi, all
Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle :)
stevenaia Michinaga: good morning, this is my first time at a guardian meeting
Pema Pera: And welcome, Geo!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi
Geo Netizen: Thank you for inviting me Corvi and all
Moon Fargis: hello everyone
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
Pema Pera: About half of us are currently in Princeton in RL, at the end of our weekly guardian meeting
Pema Pera: Also, not everybody here has a laptop
stevenaia Michinaga: waves from Princeton
Moon Fargis waves to the party people
Maxine Walden: hi, all
Riddle Sideways: waves to Princeton
Pema Pera: So present are, indirectly, the following more virtual avatars: Stim, Adelene, Threedee, Pia
Pema Pera: They all wave at you
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble waves back
doug Sosa: I msis their avatars
Pema Pera: from in front of the big screen on which you are all projected
doug Sosa: and some of you, so you see double selves.
Riddle Sideways: double your pleasure
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles warmly to all.
Pema Pera: (much of Princeton in smiling back)
Pema Pera: *is
doug Sosa: whats the news from Princeton?
Maxine Walden: interesting to be in several 'worlds' at the same time, here in Princeton and yet in the Hall of Appearance and guardian meeting at the same time
Fael Illyar smiles.
doug Sosa: Yes, that part is fascinating. if you got up to walk, which one is walking?
Adams Rubble has found memories of the group in Princeton
Pema Pera: we had 13 guardians gathered
Fael Illyar: 9 left now
genesis Zhangsun: have you found fond ones ;)
Maxine Walden: fond memories?
Pema Pera: we talked about a broad range of topics, like in a SL session
Adams Rubble: hehe. Yes Gen :)
Pema Pera: from "no time" and "Being as a resource" to very general discussions and even to drawing colorful pictures as a group's process
Corvuscorva Nightfire recognizes Pema, Adelene and 3D right off the bat..
Maxine Walden: and became aware again of our unanticipated assumptions as we met the RL aspects of Being behind the SL avs
Pema Pera: and playing with Adelene's toys
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but who are teh rest of you?
Pema Pera: ?
Fael Illyar: looking at sylectra's photos showing the wiki main page?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
Moon Fargis: hmm
Moon Fargis: i want that drawing for the pab library! ;))
Fael Illyar smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
doug Sosa: I'd like to explore the experience of meeting the RL person, that moment..
stevenaia Michinaga: I will scan the "pictures" and post them on the wiki
Corvuscorva Nightfire: you mean what was that like? to meet the rl peoples?
Riddle Sideways: yes, what is that experience?
Geo Netizen: I’m very interested in that experience also.
Fael Illyar: Adelene: Different but not dissonant.
Maxine Walden: am trying to think how to express the experience...
Adams Rubble found it enriching
Fael Illyar: Very interesting experience :)
Pema Pera: by and large RL typists do seem to be pretty close to the avatars I got to know first . . . similar sense of presence
Fael Illyar: Even if a bit tiring :)
Maxine Walden: in some cases I was not too surprised, in other cases very surprised...realizing then that I had made assumptions based on my fantasy of course about the SL av
genesis Zhangsun: I felt very comfortable and at the same time surprised by it because many people "appeared" quite different from what I imagined
Fael Illyar: Any notable exceptions, Pema?
genesis Zhangsun: and some people looked exactly as I expected
Pema Pera: not particularly, Fael, though there are differences in degree
doug Sosa: Was there both a sense of loss (of the idealized) and gain (of the richness and complexity of the person)?
Pema Pera: I didn't feel any sense of loss
Fael Illyar: Sky and Adams were the only ones I can remember being slightly surprised about.
Maxine Walden: guess I am most impacted by being made aware how much my own expectation plays in most surprises
Fael Illyar: oh, Pia as well
genesis Zhangsun: It just affirmed how much "appearances" really don't matter
Pema Pera: but some of us noticed quite clearly the different dynamic in using voice vs using text -- that difference would have shown up if we had stayed in SL using voice instead, something we've never done
genesis Zhangsun: it doesn't really change my connection
Maxine Walden: I was surprised to discover Fael's being a man in RL,
Fael Illyar: ... oh wait, Adelene gave me a surprise too. A bigger one, interesting how I almost forgot.
doug Sosa: Too me, thinking back to our Berkeley lunch, i fela little like a kid with his winnie the pooh world and it gets lost a little with the reality (Reality?). I fall in love with the avatars and don't want to fall out.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: really?
Maxine Walden: in love with the Avs, Doug?
doug Sosa: sure.
Pema Pera: (all of them??)
genesis Zhangsun: which ones ;)
Fael Illyar: do you have to fall out of love with the AV if you see who's behind it?
Maxine Walden: right, we got to thinking that the avs are just another aspect of the RL person, not to be deflated or thrown away when the RL image differs from our expectation
Fael Illyar remembers hearing how I actually look like my AV.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know what you mean though, Doug
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we come to "know" a certain person.
doug Sosa: sounds good but is that the experience, the kind we can catch in 9sec?
Maxine Walden: not sure what you mean, doug
doug Sosa: Nor do I.
Fael Illyar: everything is an experience, whether we're looking or not
doug Sosa: no, some is ideology, defensive, conceptually old.
Pema Pera: My experience was one of being enriched: meeting the RL person and the SL persona, I feel I got to know a lot more about the same person than through one of the two channels
Adams Rubble: I am one of those who felt that voice chat made more of a difference than appearnce
Maxine Walden: agree, Pema, that is my general experience as well
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene says she agrees with Adams
Geo Netizen: I’m very interested in that experience also.
genesis Zhangsun: why is that (to Adams and Adelene?)
Geo Netizen: Ooop sorry
Adams Rubble: /memay be faster on the keyboard and slower with the voice :)
Pema Pera: Feel free to join us in teh conversation, Geo!
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene says voice and bodylanguage convey more than appearance
Geo Netizen: What were some of the differences that you experienced with voice.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I'm with Adelene
Adams Rubble agrees with Adelene
Corvuscorva Nightfire: which is why I type out my "actions" often.
Maxine Walden: threedee says speed of voice vs what comes across in text is very important
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm
Adams Rubble mised being able to read back to better understand what was said
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like very much the typing.
Maxine Walden: several of us agree with Adams
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene: says Steve was boucier in voice than in SL and Avastu it was a similar experience certain information which comes through better in voice
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have different...(voices, personality bits?) in type than voice or in rl.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Like different areas of my mind can speak in type than in voice.
Maxine Walden: interesting, Corvu
Pema Pera: can you say more, Corvi?
Geo Netizen: Why do think that is the case Corvi?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm
Pema Pera: about the differences?
Riddle Sideways: and voice has interesting typos too
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Riddle.
Maxine Walden: oh...?
Geo Netizen: Typos? How so?
Pema Pera: (Riddle's riddle may have been a joke, Geo)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I umm..I think that I think differently in writing and type than in talking.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe just because it's slower.
Geo Netizen: But I think there may be something too typos in voice …
Riddle Sideways: part joke, but vocal misstatements are interesting typos equivs
Maxine Walden: yes, slips of the tongue as it were?
Pema Pera: thinking differently, Corvi, like more clearly, or more . . . ?
Maxine Walden: I agree with Corvi's point about thinking differently in typing and in voice, maybe different aspects of the mind being expressed in one than the other
Fael Illyar: typing typoes are the same for everyone but voice typoes are different for each listener :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not more clearly, not more.
Geo Netizen: Or do we color our ‘voca’ in SL just as we do you AV?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just different.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel more like myself in type than in voice, though.
Adams Rubble: Typed conversation moves more slowly than voice conversation
Pema Pera: ah, that's very interesting, Corvi!
genesis Zhangsun: I agree Corvi
Maxine Walden: threedee agrees with Adams
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene does too
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Adelene.
Geo Netizen: Agreed ...
stevenaia Michinaga: slowly, yes, but I belive somewhat more thoughtfully
Maxine Walden: agree with Steve as well, re more thoughtfully
stevenaia Michinaga: (however voice has fewer typos)
Fael Illyar: or more, depending on the listener
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene laughs ands says "says you Steve"
Adams Rubble: Ideas were changing very quickly yesterday
Maxine Walden: but lots of non-thinking bits get expressed in voice
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene agrees with Max
Pema Pera: hearos, Fael?
Pema Pera: the hear-oic path of RL PaB
Maxine Walden: wonderful pun, Pema, listeners as 'hearos'
doug Sosa: to me the result that being in second life and typing is so effective is real news. It makes these among the most usccessful meetings I've ever been at.
Adams Rubble: :)
Maxine Walden: wow, doug
Pema Pera: usccessful is an interesting typo, doug
Maxine Walden: some of us are wondering about the near type of doug
Maxine Walden: near typo
genesis Zhangsun: yes doug especially when you type usccessfully
Pema Pera: the near type of doug has to be seen to be believed
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to belive we are all in the same room typing
Geo Netizen: Is there any interactions outside of the typing?
Geo Netizen: in the room?
Pema Pera: well, body language and voice
Pema Pera: no tomatoes, no musical instruments
Geo Netizen: :)
Maxine Walden: threedee, not at a keyboard right now, not embedded in the chat as when he is at the keyboard. Reading the wiki, not embedded, feels boring; the intention to interact makes a huge difference in terms of interest
Fael Illyar: oh, right, we forgot the tomatoes :)
Moon Fargis: ??
Maxine Walden: more engagedness, more present with the conversation, might be closer offers Adelene and threedee
Fael Illyar: (joking)
Moon Fargis: (getting hunggry)
doug Sosa: i meant successfuly..
Maxine Walden: tomotoes? Fale
Maxine Walden: Fael?
Geo Netizen: for throwing ?:)
Fael Illyar: Well, Pema mentioned tomatoes :)
Maxine Walden: lol...
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene says that for her when she in SL there is an engagement thanks Max
Fael Illyar: and musical instruments
Maxine Walden: for?
Pema Pera: Fael's sell phone has a musical gong in RL though
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes, indeed
Geo Netizen: So … would it improve the productivity of meetings to get together in person but communicate in this way (through SL)?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adelene, do you mean that you don't care about this confersation without your avatar here?
genesis Zhangsun: Yes Fael's cell phone his country "sells" phones
genesis Zhangsun: sorry
Moon Fargis: my friends.. i wont break this discussion now but.. see,s i have to leave in 10 to 15 minutes and i wanted to show you the pab library
genesis Zhangsun: Pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire put that rather crudely.
Maxine Walden: Steve watching Pia typing on his computer while he is watching Maxine's text showing up on the big screen we are using and he confuses Pia with Maxine whose screen is being projected for us to see
Maxine Walden: for me Steve's comment just suggests how overflowing of personal boundaries we can experience in this RL and SL straddling
Corvuscorva Nightfire is torn between the library and the conversation.
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene: the wiki is there if I am reading the wiki and I don't think of anything interesting to say it doesn't matter so I don't bother and that is a diference in my own mind state too.
stevenaia Michinaga: on the other hand, pia feels reading wiki actually can help understanding the topic and content better, more digested, thorough, . in session many times you may not have enough time to understand what people said and their Q &A relationship.
doug Sosa: do any of you try the 9 sec in the meeting?
Moon Fargis: (thes a large sitting table in the library where we dcan continue the talk)
genesis Zhangsun: Yes lets go
Adams Rubble finds value in Wiki logs
Pema Pera: yes, Pia, I have similar reactions
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I love reading the Wiki, even when I was there...but I often have questions I wish I ws present to ask if I wasn't there.
Moon Fargis: ok i hope i didnt forgot someone
genesis Zhangsun: Write them down and save them for the next time :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Pema Pera: And sometimes when I read a session where I was not present, there is an even calmer atmosphere associated with it than the normally already calm texting atmospheres
Riddle Sideways already has a long list of questions
genesis Zhangsun: I know I forget to do that and I wish I had
Corvuscorva Nightfire: then I have new questions.
Adams Rubble learns much about people are thinking on the Wiki
Moon Fargis gave you PaB Library ??.
Fael Illyar: ok, let's move to Moon's library?
genesis Zhangsun: Vamanos!
Moon Fargis: see you infront of it :)
Riddle Sideways: ok
Maxine Walden: will teleport there now?
Pema Pera: Okay, we'll move to (the) Moon
Fael Illyar: did everyone get the landmark?
doug Sosa: no
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'll call for tp?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thanks, Geo