2008.10.20 19:00 - The naure of PaB as a group.

The guardian for the evening was Threedee.

 Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: Hi, Claire
Claire Beltran: Hi!
Threedee Shepherd: Claire, on my screen you are just a shimmering cloud
Adelene Dawner: Mine too
Claire Beltran: Well, I can't very well help that... ^^;
Adelene Dawner: ^.^ You'll rez eventually.
Claire Beltran: At any rate, I need to go now...

A visitor arrived, noted as Anonymous 1 as we didn't get permission to record him.

Threedee Shepherd: so Ade, is that server or client side
Anonymous 1: hello
Adelene Dawner: That's client side.
Adelene Dawner: Hullo Anonymous1. ^.^
Claire Beltran: Have a good evening! ^-^/
Adelene Dawner: cya Claire ^.^

Claire Beltran left, and  Prosper Telling arrived.

Adelene Dawner: Hi Pros
Anonymous 1: hello. is this private lad? we do not mean to trespass
Prosper Telling: Hi

Corvi arrived.

Adelene Dawner: Nope, Anonymous1. We're about to start a meeting, you're welcome to stay if you like, we discuss philosophy and the nature of reality and a number of other things, in a playful way.
Adelene Dawner: Hi Corvi ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at the cats.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Prosper.

A second anonymous visitor arrived.

Anonymous 1: ahora si
Prosper Telling: Hi
Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches Adelene's ears.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thanks you.
Adelene Dawner purrs ^.^
Adelene Dawner: (no sound hud today)
Anonymous 1: veni Ladi hacete amigo
Threedee Shepherd: Hello Anonymous1 and Anonymous2
Anonymous 1: Threedee
Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches 3d's ears experimentally.
Anonymous 1: hello
Prosper Telling: hi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Anonymous1, Anonymous2
Anonymous 1: hi prosper
Anonymous 1: what sort of a place is this one?
Anonymous 1: if i may ask
Threedee Shepherd: This is a daily, regular meeting of the group PlayAsBeing. You might want to look at our info page to find out about us.
Anonymous 1: Hi Corvuscorva
Threedee Shepherd: Address, someone, please
Anonymous 2: Hi, corvuscorva, I Prosper
Threedee Shepherd purrs at Corvi
Adelene Dawner: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams(1, [PRIM_SIZE, <0.08, 0.16, 0.01>]);
Adelene Dawner: ah
Anonymous 1: oh cool
Adelene Dawner: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Anonymous 1: thanks
Anonymous 1: i will check it
Adelene Dawner: it would be nice if control-C worked mor reliably. :P
Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
Anonymous 2: someone here do speak german?
Anonymous 1: we thought it was some meditation place
Corvuscorva Nightfire: We discuss a meditation practice at this meeting.
Threedee Shepherd: no, at least not those at this meeting

stevenaia Michinaga arrived.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Steve!
Adelene Dawner: Soe of what we do is like meditation, but it's an unusual variation of it.
Adelene Dawner: *Some
Anonymous 1: hi steve
Threedee Shepherd: hi steve, prosper
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
stevenaia Michinaga: rezzzzing
Threedee Shepherd: everyone seems to be rezzing slowly tonight, have a seat anyway ^.^
Anonymous2 Svoboda: well. bye bye everyone
Anonymous 1: thanks for your hospitality
Corvuscorva Nightfire: good bye.
Threedee Shepherd: bye
Anonymous 2: Adieu

Anonymous1 and Anonymous2 left.

stevenaia Michinaga: don;tleave on my accounf
Prosper Telling: Meditation itself seems too have two sides... one is the formal sitting, on the cushion and the other is the mindfulness we carry into our daily lives.... I think we touch ore on the latter
Prosper Telling: yeah, still rezzing here as well
Threedee Shepherd: Corvi's hair has rezzed brightly :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire Anonymous1ghs..it is a bit...bright.
Adelene Dawner: Three is starting to sound like me and I found myself sounding like him, earlier. How interesting. ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, we noticed you finishing each other's sentences, hehe
Adelene Dawner Anonymous1ghs.
Bell: *ding*
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Corvi, is that new hair?
Threedee Shepherd: observation: floating
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It is.
Adelene Dawner: observation: joy, playfulness; behind that, lots of recent experiences to process.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: o...0
Adelene Dawner: ?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: you two.
Adelene Dawner: Yes. And? ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire shrugs..tries to explain...you two DO feel very different from before...like yourselves but.
stevenaia Michinaga: can you merge two avatars into one being here? two headed lion
Adelene Dawner: That would be *awesome*, Steve. ^.^
Threedee Shepherd: With the proper poseball I have imagined ANYTHING is possible in SL
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, they were like that this weekend, smile, very enjoyable to watch
Corvuscorva Nightfire sighs, smiling happily.
Threedee Shepherd: :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: most were like that individually
stevenaia Michinaga: but everyone in Princeton was their own exception
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods thoughtfully.
Threedee Shepherd: and remarkably, as nice as they are here in SL.
Adelene Dawner: yes ^.^
Adelene Dawner: It was interesting that in some ways it didn't feel like RL at all...
Threedee Shepherd: true
Adelene Dawner: The social atmosphere was very SL-like.
stevenaia Michinaga: as though there was no difference, just diferences
Adelene Dawner: yes ^.^

Prosper Telling disappeared.

Threedee Shepherd: no competition to be the *most enlightened* :D
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
stevenaia Michinaga: question.. which other two seems most alike..
stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t mean other
Adelene Dawner: RL/SL?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: most like each other, or most like their avatar/
Adelene Dawner: hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: most like each other
Threedee Shepherd: most like each other
stevenaia Michinaga: sure
Adelene Dawner is not able to answer that question in a meaningful way.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Threedee Shepherd: although as I think about it the Av personalities and the RL ones were not discordant
stevenaia Michinaga: I didn;t know if there was an answer
Corvuscorva Nightfire: That's what Pema said too.
stevenaia Michinaga: I didn;t see Prosper leave
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, I missed it too.
Threedee Shepherd: he was typing and then he wasn't
stevenaia Michinaga: pema said what, no answer?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thatthe people were like their Avies

Claire Beltran arrived, then left a moment later.

stevenaia Michinaga: oh
Corvuscorva Nightfire: in personality
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Claire!
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Claire, how are you tonight
Threedee Shepherd: Hi Clair, wb
Claire Beltran: Thank you for your kindness, but I must be going again...
Claire Beltran: Hugs, all!
Bell: *ding*
stevenaia Michinaga: always nice to see you
stevenaia Michinaga: She comes for 2 minutes often

Prosper Telling reappeared.

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
stevenaia Michinaga: wb prosper
Threedee Shepherd: Corvi, how does all this "Princeton talk" feel to you, given you were not able to be there?
Prosper Telling: crashed
Corvuscorva Nightfire tilts her head and considers.
Threedee Shepherd: Prosper, VERY crashed, it seems. You were in the midst of typing and then......
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel somehow as though...I don't know...I felt very included in the event somehow.
Adelene Dawner: good ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: were you at the guardian meeting on Sunday?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I kept seeing and hearing from it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: well then you were
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, smiling.
Threedee Shepherd: Prosper, what is it you were almost saying?
Prosper Telling: I am no longer sure :-)
Threedee Shepherd: Well, if there is a *topic* tonight, it is sort-of, *the nature of PaB as a group*
Prosper Telling: since2nd Lifes latest update my crashes have become evn more frequent
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. true of many, Prosper.
Threedee Shepherd: by latest do you mean the required, or the one after that?
stevenaia Michinaga: is yous the mac update?
Prosper Telling: the required
Prosper Telling: nope windows
Threedee Shepherd: well, the one after that seems to have fixed crashing at the expense of bandwidth issues, I observe
stevenaia Michinaga: brb
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It feels like the nature of the group has changed some since I started.
Threedee Shepherd: how so Corvi?
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks.
Prosper Telling: 'Fraid I;ve lost some contact with the group. Schecules went out of sync for a while.
Threedee Shepherd: happens:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins. I suspect it is more my perspective that's changed.
Threedee Shepherd: ??
Corvuscorva Nightfire: What seemed intellectual and theoretical seems warm and personal.
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: even when the discussion is intellectual.
Threedee Shepherd: that's encouraging
Prosper Telling: Playing the mad Buddhist, your perspective would have to change but so so to would the group. Nothing is always the same (and nothing changes but that's anotehr rant)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Prosper.
Prosper Telling: For myself trust has become a key word in how I look at PaB
Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods thoughtfully.
Prosper Telling: trust that no good act is ever lost, trust that we are not alone, trust that the universe is basically a apositive experience furthering our spiritual growth
Prosper Telling: (Trust that you can make out what I'm saying through all my typos)
Threedee Shepherd: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire Anonymous1ghs.
Adelene Dawner wants a log of the afternoon session at the meetup so she can quote her paraphrase of Pema, though...
Threedee Shepherd: Prosper "trust that we are not alone" is a big one
Adelene Dawner: something along the lines of "doubt is the most useful way of interacting with being", in the sense of questioning assumptions.
Prosper Telling: Agree
Threedee Shepherd: One needs to feel relatively secure, to doubt, I think....
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: secure?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmph
Bell: *ding*
Prosper Telling: and in our culture, doubt is traditionally punished with hellfire.
Threedee Shepherd: secure in the sense that one's thoughts and ideas are OK, even if knowing is not evident
Prosper Telling: Seems trust is needed.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok
Threedee Shepherd: And that brief excahnag Corvi and I just had shows how hard it is to get beyond so many of the assumptions built into our cultural vocabulary
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: true.
Threedee Shepherd: So, it's always best to ask. But,
Threedee Shepherd: in RL such asking is fraught with soical conventions related to status and embarassment
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hm
stevenaia Michinaga: back, sorry son has computer problems
Threedee Shepherd: who's sorry, you ar son ;D
Threedee Shepherd: or
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Prosper Telling: : )
Prosper Telling: well I guess I am off to bed I shall be back later
Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night Prosper.
Prosper Telling: g'dnight
Threedee Shepherd: ok, good to see you and hear your thoughts:)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep well.

Prosper Telling left.

stevenaia Michinaga: just caught up with reading the log
stevenaia Michinaga: there is a warmth here, that is pervasive
Threedee Shepherd: yes, now WHY can't everyone *just shut up and be nice like us* he whined ;D
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps in addition to trust and secureity, it is openenss and acceptance
Adelene Dawner: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: they can, Three...if we make them
Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: right
Adelene Dawner agrees with Corvi
Adelene Dawner: And that's a recuring question that I've had.
stevenaia Michinaga: which question?
Adelene Dawner: There's a difference, here... 'enlightenment' is a dangerous word but it's in the right direction anyway. We're learning things that other people just don't seem to grasp. Which does change the interactions in ways that may not be pleasant in one way or another. What's the right path there?
Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps it not so much the right path but traveling with integrity?
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: I forget who I was talking to this weekend , and we decided that the questions are more important than the answers, ther eis no finfing, jsut asking
stevenaia Michinaga: no finding
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
stevenaia Michinaga: the path is paved with questions
Adelene Dawner: even asking the questions can make others uncomfortable
stevenaia Michinaga: "others"?
Threedee Shepherd: having asked, it's hard to unask, which adds dimension to the next question
Adelene Dawner: BF really doesn't like it when I 'do wu wei' - he wants answers when he asks what I'm planning to do.
Adelene Dawner: For example.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Sometimes this IS uncomfortable...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but.
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, I know I;ve heard it before but what is wu wei
Adelene Dawner: 'not doing'
Bell: *ding*
Adelene Dawner: very roughly, it means letting whatever's going to happen happen, not trying to get to a particular outcome.
stevenaia Michinaga: and the intent is to...watch?
stevenaia Michinaga: to be aware?
Threedee Shepherd: from Wikipedia, of course: "wu wei is an important tenet of Taoism that involves knowing when to act and when not to act. Another perspective to this is that "Wu Wei" means natural action - as planets revolve around the sun, they "do" this revolving, but without "doing" it; or as trees grow, they "do", but without "doing". Thus knowing when (and how) to act is not knowledge in the sense that one would think "now" is the right time to do "this", but rather just doing it, doing the natural thing.
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Adelene Dawner: it's more than just watching, in a sense - in another sense, it's just watching yourself just do what arises naturally.
stevenaia Michinaga: no wonder life is entertaining
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: but I don;t understand your discomfort Corvi
stevenaia Michinaga: what questions creat discomfort
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It may be the answers that create discomfort
stevenaia Michinaga: there were moments of personal discomfort I saw this weekend, rare moments
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks to something she's read recently.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think some might say it is resistence to what is that creates my discomfort
Threedee Shepherd: We each know better than anyone else the places we would most like to change and grow :)
stevenaia Michinaga: there was much talk of resistance and grasping
Adelene Dawner: I have a relevant quote, Corvi:
Adelene Dawner: People can stand what is real; they already are doing so.

Claire Beltran returned.

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Claire Beltran: Yes... it sort of is.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It can be a little scary as one realizes it.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello claire, w/b
Adelene Dawner hugs Corvi.
Claire Beltran: Se we have two lions stretched out on the floor now... *smiles*
Corvuscorva Nightfire hugs Adelene back.
Adelene Dawner purrs ^.^
Claire Beltran: Heehee
Threedee Shepherd: I find that the Lion AV releases me from the non-conscious, automatic assumptions I have about myself when seeing myself as a human av
Bell: *ding*
stevenaia Michinaga: the same is true for any changed form, at least for me
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I interact very differently as Crow.
Claire Beltran: Do you?
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: do you have a non human avie, Claire
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ?
Claire Beltran: No... just the one.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm
stevenaia Michinaga: when I had I different form, I was the same
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Claire...perhaps we might make a trip to Grendel's sometime.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: You don't behave differently Steve?
Claire Beltran: Really!
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Claire...it's fun.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it confused some when the expectations for my avatar were not what emerged from me
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Threedee Shepherd: Threedee has a few different avs. Perhaps one session we might agree to come in a totally new one not seen here before ^.>
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Steve..that could be fun in a different way.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Three...that would be interesting!
Adelene Dawner: Sounds like something fun for halloween?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, yes!
stevenaia Michinaga: or we can dress up ar someones else in the group
stevenaia Michinaga: share skins
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh funny!

Threedee Shepherd disappeared.

Corvuscorva Nightfire can just see Steve's skin on her form...
stevenaia Michinaga: I think I;m fading from weekend catching up
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Night, Steve
Adelene Dawner: 'night Steve ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: night

stevenaia left.

Claire Beltran: Well, now what?
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles...3D has crashed, Ade?
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
Adelene Dawner: He'll be back, I'm sure.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel sure of it, too.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nudge over here, Claire?
Adelene Dawner yawns toothily.

Kojiro Eretz arrived.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: ^.^
Kojiro Eretz: Hello all
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello
Adelene Dawner: hi
Kojiro Eretz: Been a few weeks
Claire Beltran: Hmm? I don't believe I've met you before, Kojiro.
Kojiro Eretz: I don't believe I met you either
Kojiro Eretz: Nice to meet you ^^
Kojiro Eretz: I only been here a couple of times
Kojiro Eretz: So how are you all doing today?
Bell: *ding*
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm well, you?
Kojiro Eretz: Hmmm I guess im doing ok.
Adelene Dawner: Mark says he had a really bad crash and has had to restart his computer, he'll be back as soon as he's able.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Kojiro Eretz: Been on a small quest on SL to find a neat japanese culture place that isn't dead :/
Adelene Dawner: Have you found Hikari yet?
Kojiro Eretz: Hikari?
Claire Beltran: Aww...
Adelene Dawner: A sim. Easily findable via search. It's not all that active but I've met some neat people there.
Kojiro Eretz: I'll give it a look a little later then ^^, thanks :D
Adelene Dawner: no problem ^^
Kojiro Eretz: Since my last visit to this meeting place I have found a nice place outside of my apartment for meditation.
Kojiro Eretz: There isn't anything special about the place but this one tree that I sat at just had this serene feeling to the ground around it.
Adelene Dawner: ^^
Claire Beltran: Really? How so?
Adelene Dawner: sounds special enough to me ^.^
Kojiro Eretz: I dunno... it just felt different from the rest of the town.
Kojiro Eretz: Im gonna try to make sundays my day to walk back to the spot to meditate.
Adelene Dawner is off in her own little world, plotting to make a wearable computer. ^.^
Kojiro Eretz: o.o
Claire Beltran: Wow. I wonder how that would work ^-^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: wearable?
Corvuscorva Nightfire pushes her hat down on her head a little further.
Kojiro Eretz: Maybe a kind of robot suit?
Adelene Dawner: Yes, wearable. Such things already exist, though so far I think they're mostly custom-made still.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we wear lots of little computers.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: watches, i pods.
Kojiro Eretz: Ipods :P
Adelene Dawner: For mine, I'm thinking about a bluetooth headset as the main IO device, and have the rest of it in a belt pack.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Kojiro Eretz: Wish I had the money to get stuff like that :P
Adelene Dawner grins.
Adelene Dawner: I'm nto rich either but things get cheaper by a lot if you're willing to DIY. ^.^
Corvuscorva Nightfire Anonymous1ghs.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes.
Kojiro Eretz: :P
Kojiro Eretz: I need a job XD
Adelene Dawner: hehe
Kojiro Eretz: Question... what exactly is an Intern job?
Bell: *ding*

Threedee Shepherd returned.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Corvuscorva Nightfire: wb
Kojiro Eretz: Hello :D
Threedee Shepherd: perhaps, SL is still being a bit strange
Adelene Dawner: :(
Threedee Shepherd: did sl log others out with an area behaving strangly message?
Adelene Dawner: nope
Claire Beltran: I think I have to go for now... but It was great talking
Claire Beltran: ^-^/
Threedee Shepherd: bye claire
Kojiro Eretz: Nice meeting ya :D
Adelene Dawner: ^^ cya

Claire Beltran left.

Threedee Shepherd: I got a you have been logged out because the region was behaving strangly messaage. Then Windows could not connect with the Internet at all. I went through the usual reboot and clean up operations to get back
Kojiro Eretz: Weird....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: interesting.
Adelene Dawner is poking at the wikipedia page on Bluetooth.
Corvuscorva Nightfire Anonymous1ghs.
Threedee Shepherd: hello Kojiro, I hope that sword is ceremonial, at least here ;D
Kojiro Eretz: XD It's mostly for looks but it can work.
Threedee Shepherd: Kojiro, have you been to our group before and did the others explain?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: He has.
Kojiro Eretz: I have been here before
Corvuscorva Nightfire: weeks ago.
Kojiro Eretz: Yea.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..we explained then, right, the website, and that we record and log onto the website?
Corvuscorva Nightfire hopes she remembers that right.
Kojiro Eretz: I sort of remember you threedee from before... sort of :/
Threedee Shepherd: no log anymore tonite. Also, given Kojiro's profile and Av, I made no gender assumptions :)
Kojiro Eretz: Im a guy :P
Kojiro Eretz: And yea.... I should update my profile
Threedee Shepherd: Well, Adelene just gave me "Snow Crash" to read, so as I read it I become even less assumption bound. The author was really prescient about metaworlds.
Adelene Dawner: hehe ^.^
Kojiro Eretz: Snow Crash?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I just finished Wol's assignment to me..Cryptonomicon.
Threedee Shepherd: It's a sort of science fiction novel set in a somewhat dystopian world that has a metaworld very much like SL, that was wriotten in 1992
Kojiro Eretz: Oh ok.
Threedee Shepherd: "Cryptonomicon" . What's the theme?
Threedee Shepherd: and genre
Corvuscorva Nightfire: same writer.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ...Wol told me about him a while back.
Threedee Shepherd: as I just said to Corvi: Too bad the Snow Crash Avs still work better than those in SL
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Adelene Dawner: heh
Threedee Shepherd: Actually, isn't Show Crash where the SL term rez comes from?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I get the impression alot comes from that book.
Bell: *ding*
Kojiro Eretz: I shall be right back. Gonna go put some water on the stove.
Threedee Shepherd: OK, I may be gone, so goodnight::)
Adelene Dawner yawns. "Time to go, I think."
Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches Adelenes ear..."gnight, Adelene"
Threedee Shepherd: g'night folks, me too :)
Adelene Dawner purrs. "G'night, Cor. Cya around."
Corvuscorva Nightfire: "g'night, Threedee"