2008.10.17 07:00 - Thoughtfulness is like a solid, compassion is like a liquid

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    This session was recovered from the autologger's test database. Quen would have been GoC but she was out of internet contact, and therefore could not reach anybody to ask for a replacement.


    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Corvi ^.^ 
    Adelene Dawner is *still* headspinny from the session last night. *chuckle* 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. "it was yummy." 
    Adelene Dawner: I'll have to write more on the topic I was trying to talk about - I guess it's a more specific concept than I thought it was, but it's interesting, and I want to poke at it more. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins widely. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was very....I wanted the last paragraph of what you wrote. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It clicked. 
    Adelene Dawner: *chuckle* 
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not surprised. 
    Adelene Dawner: A further analogy that I mentioned to Three after the session last night - which I wanted to talk about *in* the session, but, oh well - was how well the three patterns I talked about correlate to states of matter. 
    Adelene Dawner: Thoughtfulness is like a solid - it has a set volume and it's rigid - it doesn't move from its place without breaking. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Gaya! 
    Adelene Dawner: Compassion is like a liquid - it'll flow to make room for other things, but it still takes up a certain amount of space, and if you push it too far, it'll spill. 
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Gaya ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ 
    Adelene Dawner: The third state is like a gas - no shape, variable volume. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner: And, I know from personal experience that, just like with matter, my reactions to things can change from one state to another depending on conditions. 
    Adelene Dawner: (e.g. my reactions to my BF have been very 'solid' for the last year, which is not having a good effect on our relationship) 
    Adelene Dawner: I'd like to try to figure out what causes those state changes. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty Corvi. reading back... 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: welcome 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner: http://angelshelper81.livejournal.com/2222.html 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: your state to change from solid to liquid to gas you mean? 
    Adelene Dawner: Adelene Dawner is *still* headspinny from the session last night. *chuckle* Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. "it was yummy." Bell: *ding* You: I'll have to write more on the topic I was trying to talk about - I guess it's a more specific concept than I thought it was, but it's interesting, and I want to poke at it more. Corvuscorva Nightfire grins widely. Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was very....I wanted the last paragraph of what you wrote. Corvuscorva Nightfire: It clicked. You: *chuckle* You: I'm not surprised. You: A further analogy that I mentioned to Three after the session last night - which I wanted to talk about *in* the session, but, oh well - was how well the three patterns I talked about correlate to states of matter. You: Thoughtfulness is like a solid - it has a set volume and it's rigid - it doesn't move from its place without breaking. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I put it all in a notecard and sent it...heehehe 
    Adelene Dawner: oh :) 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the exact same thing. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs. 
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sometimes I feel like we are more alike than it seems. 
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ I've said as much, Love. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ^.^ 
    Adelene Dawner: Anyway yes - the state of my reaction-pattern can change from solid to liquid to gas, or back the other way. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It seems like many people in relationships say the same thing. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that they are more "solid" in their space with those they love. 
    Adelene Dawner: It applies to more than relationships, but yes. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: carving space out for themselves. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but that is one place where we all seem to be more solid. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or most of us. 
    Adelene Dawner: In this case, it's hard - I was very much liquid-to-gas with him for a long time. Something about the pressure of us living together made me switch to solid, and I'm not sure what, but it's not going well, especially since he seems unable or unwilling to grok the *shape* of that solid. He keeps trying to take up space that I'm using. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: pressure does that to stuff, doesn't it? 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it can change the state. 
    Adelene Dawner: And it's not voluntary, that's the hard part. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: right. 
    Adelene Dawner sighs. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so..the choices..maybe? Relieve the pressure, change the volutility of the element. 
    Adelene Dawner: Anyway, that wasn't supposed to be more than just an example... the concept's interesting by itself. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner: And yes... understanding what kinds of pressure cause that change seems key to managing the states. 
    Adelene Dawner: In general. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...thinks. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm a little big intrigued... about 'solid' 
    Gaya Ethaniel: not sure if related... I felt Fael 'less solid' the other day when she was getting settled after a long trip. I couldn't come up with a better word than that... light, less solid something like that 
    Adelene Dawner: May or may not be the same kind of thing, Gaya, this is an unusual use of the words. Can you say more? 
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders 
    Gaya Ethaniel: couldn't quite 'relate' to her? she felt different somewhat... 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm, that's a different use of 'solid'. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Adelene Dawner: Someone in a liquid or gas reaction-state will seem even *more* present... easier compatability. 
    Gaya Ethaniel listens 
    Adelene Dawner: These are difficult patterns to talk about, except in metaphor, and there's always a risk of that being misunderstood. :P 
    Adelene Dawner: But... 
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 
    Adelene Dawner: Ok, current example again with BF. 
    Adelene Dawner: I have two jobs right now, one in FL, one on here but for real-world-signifigant sums of money. 
    Adelene Dawner: BF doesn't understand the second, and seems to think it's not 'real' and that the deadlines I have with it are not important. 
    Adelene Dawner: So I've had to be very solid with him with that, very inflexable, because otherwise it interferes with the job. 
    Adelene Dawner: Which means doing things like setting down rules, one of which is "don't bother me when I'm on the computer" 
    Gaya Ethaniel: being firm... in a way creating barriers between you two? 
    Gaya Ethaniel: (because of lack of understanding) 
    Adelene Dawner: Which he does anyway... and because it's important that he learn to respect that rule, I wind up growling at him whether he's interrupting *work* or not. 
    Adelene Dawner: Yup, Gaya. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... solid in that meaning... 
    Adelene Dawner: And there's a reason for that pattern, and the job I'm doing her is a much better one for both of us in the long run so it is kinda justified. 
    Adelene Dawner: But still, in the current now, I'm less present to him. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah I understand now about solid & present concepts you use 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It is a common struggle, I think. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: though... being solid oneself is positive in a way so that we see each other for what we are? 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner hmms and finds words. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that there is a place for that solidity. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and a want to get to it and go beyond, for me. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ 
    Adelene Dawner: Is water more itself when it's ice than when it's liquid or vapor? 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think there must be a fourth state. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: one that I am often in. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... yes 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: where I am not solid...not myself. 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: hi all 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Lucifer. 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: where are you from ? 
    Gaya Ethaniel: interesting question about water... 
    Adelene Dawner is from the internet, you? 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: i am french 
    Gaya Ethaniel is Korean 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: ok 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Have you been here before? 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: it is the first game for me 
    Gaya Ethaniel: in all those states, water is water... just difference in appearance perhaps Adele 
    Adelene Dawner: *yes*, Gaya. ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: but it affects how water interacts with other elements in each state 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Adelene Dawner: nobody said people were simple. ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: We are a group that talks about a meditation practice we do in rl..let me give you our website. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we record these sessions and post them, would you mind having your words posted? 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: i don't undrestand all 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods....we put all the words typed here on a website 
    Adelene Dawner: We like solids because they're predictable, they don't change. You can depend on them to be what they are - you don't have to think about them much. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... and easy to perceive 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: would it be ok to put your words on our website? 
    Adelene Dawner: Exactly. 
    Adelene Dawner: But, is that worth the lack of flexibility? 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: http://playasbeing.wik.is/ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: no and to understand truly, one needs to see water for what it is in all forms 
    LUCIFER666 Burks: ok a+ 
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ 
    Adelene Dawner: (And, sometimes it *is* worth the lack of flexibility, I think. There's a meta-flexibility in having access to all three forms.) 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmm. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes! 
    Adelene Dawner: :) 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's it! Metaflexability. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if one doesn't HAVE solid... 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is an important tool 
    Adelene Dawner: *yes* ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes some RL situations demand that... solid states 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and still..I think there is the kind of not solid, Gaya referenced. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is not any of those states. 
    Adelene Dawner: Yup. 
    Adelene Dawner: That's kind of a different thing - like I said, a different use of the word. Different metaphor. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is..and important to note, too. 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that one can gain those three states or not be in any of them. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: I often say that thoughts are not solid... another use perhaps 
    Adelene Dawner: yup 
    Adelene Dawner: 'solid' is a very flexible word, it seems. ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: please say more Corvi 
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think those three states are strong things..and very present. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: even solidity. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: even gas 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but.. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there is not present, too. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: which is none of those three things. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: more or easy to 'grok' another perhaps when Adele mentioned 'not being present to BF' 
    Gaya Ethaniel: more difficult or easier* 
    Gaya Ethaniel: being all or not or more...? what is this which other state for you Corvi? 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but solid at least means grokking yourself. 
    Adelene Dawner: In a simple sense, Corvi - you are not your shape, though, really. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you MUST pay attention to be in any of those states. 
    Adelene Dawner: Water is water, whether it's ice or liquid or vapor... the nature of water transcendent of those temporary states is harder to grok, but it's a truer understanding of what water is. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so..if I am vacant and not present, to myself and others? in what state am I in? 
    Adelene Dawner: Plasma? 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not any of those three states, anyway. 
    Adelene Dawner: Those three states... they all reference 'projects', being present-in-that-sense enough to *do* things. Plasma's different. It's been a long time since my last science class, but if I remember correctly, an element in the plasma state isn't even particularly identifiable as a particular element at all. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, settles. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... vacant state... 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok..that's all..I just needed that fourth "state" 
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ 
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: back to the three. 
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not sure that I have anything else to say about them, for the moment. I'll keep pondering the causes of state changes. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if the causes are always external... 
    Adelene Dawner: I'd be very surprised if they were, Gaya 
    Gaya Ethaniel: external causes... do they always almost make the states to change? 
    Adelene Dawner shrugs. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: I thought about this a lot... 
    Adelene Dawner: Like I said above, the change in states seems to be involuntary, which implies that it's made to happen by something. 
    Adelene Dawner: But I may find that once I understand it more, it becomes voluntary. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... perhaps 
    Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps for you it could work that way more yes 
    Adelene Dawner grins at Faenik. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I wonder if it requires maybe more....change in the makeup of the molecule? 
    Adelene Dawner: And even knowing that it's possible for that kind of state-change to be voluntray would be a big deal... 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: rather than being voluntary or involuntary? 
    Gaya Ethaniel: very 'X-men'ish that... 
    Adelene Dawner: And yeah, Corvi... the metaphor of us as elements like water is a weaker one, we do change in ways that water doesn't. 
    Adelene Dawner grins at Gaya. 
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs at Gaya's thought... 
    Gaya Ethaniel: understanding the causes sounds very useful for me too 
    Gaya Ethaniel: how/why they affect... and so on 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Adelene Dawner: Grokking those causes would be almost the same as making it voluntary anyway. You'd see what was going on and be able to adjust your behavior ahead of time to avoid situations that would trigger unwanted state-change. 
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... not sure if that's possible always 
    Adelene Dawner: Yes and no 
    Adelene Dawner: You almost always have a choice... 
    Adelene Dawner: Doesn't mean that you have to like the other option though. 
    Adelene Dawner: But 'it's not worth it' isn't the same as 'I can't' 
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders... 
    Adelene Dawner: Like my FL job. I'm not particularly happy there, recently. 
    Adelene Dawner: I have a choice of staying, finding another job, or being jobless with all that implies. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 
    Adelene Dawner: Of those options, 'staying' is the best, though I'm working on 'finding another job'. 
    Adelene Dawner: Doesn't mean I have to like 'staying', but it's still ghe best choice and I do still *have* a choice. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is interesting in those choices is how not absolute they are. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ooo..must go.. 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: have to go vote. 
    Adelene Dawner: ok, Corvi. See you next week ^.^ 
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: see ya then! 
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nice to see you again Corvi. Good day 
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ 
    Gaya Ethaniel: You are travelling today? 
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 
    Adelene Dawner: I need to go take a shower and finish the last bit of packing, soon. 
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy Adele and nice to see you again 
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ 
    Adelene Dawner: yes 
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ 
    Adelene Dawner: *hug*



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