2008.10.23 07:00 - Loops

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    In the loop, out of the loop, highway loops, loop-de-loop, fruit loops, ..... many loops we all inhabit, full and part time ... CH

    Maxine Walden: hi, Cal
    Caledonia Heron: hey there Maxine :)
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you again so soon
    Caledonia Heron: yes, nice to see you too :)
    Caledonia Heron: you are a solid anchor point in this highly variable world :)
    Maxine Walden: oh, my, (blushes slightly) actually I think of you that way as well
    Caledonia Heron: thank you, I appreciate that
    Maxine Walden: I am sorry that there was some mis-understanding about my reserve over the weekend; indeed I felt you to be feeling reserved....isn't that interesting how those mis-read cues can so distort the 'reality' between folks
    Pema Pera: Hi Maxine and Cal!
    Maxine Walden: ah, here comes Pema
    Pema Pera: good morning!
    Caledonia Heron: yes, the cues are so important and yet not helpful at times :)
    Caledonia Heron: hi Pema :)
    Maxine Walden: we were just thinking about the weekend and how Cal and I mis-read each other's cues
    Pema Pera: interesting topic!
    Maxine Walden: yes, maybe especially since I think Cal and I have come to respect each other consderably and it seems we each read 'reserve' into the other's body language ...
    Maxine Walden: when that was not what each of us was consciously feeling toward the other
    Caledonia Heron: yes, and for me trying to resolve the intimacy of the sl group with the power of the rl selves :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, significant and jarring experience, Sl vs RL
    Pema Pera: I sure look forward to reading the chat log! Sorry I was a few minutes late in coming in
    Pema Pera: perhaps we need a third L, besides SL and RL :>)
    Caledonia Heron: we're just starting, you missed a couple of exchanges is all



    Pema Pera: the "big L" ?
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: BL for "Being Life"??
    Maxine Walden: the big L, love the term
    Caledonia Heron: remarkable that we immediately start without a chitchat buffer ... this is the kind of difference between sl and rl that arises
    Maxine Walden: but what would comprise the Big L (BL), because there are so many nuances
    Maxine Walden: agree, Cal
    Pema Pera: yes, Cal, indeed!
    Maxine Walden: yes, we had perhaps an hour of buffer chat on Sat morning, not a moment this morning
    Pema Pera: but during that first hour of chitchat a number of interesting things were said, I remember, beside introductions
    Maxine Walden: one thought I had about Sat morning was 'who was going to run the show...get us started...who was the leader...'
    Maxine Walden: what do you recall, Pema?
    Pema Pera: and yes, I agree, in SL you can get directly to the point!



    Caledonia Heron: hi Fael :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Cal, Pema, Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: much quicker often than in RL -- but then again, we have met so many times in SL, and for most of us it was the first time in RL -- hard to compare
    Fael Illyar: yes, quite hard :)
    Maxine Walden: true, maybe RL carries the trappings of 'etiquette' which SL does not
    Pema Pera: What do I remember? Pity not to have a chat log -- that is the main thought I remember!
    Pema Pera: hi Fael-from-next-door-still :)
    Pema Pera: for sure, Maxine
    Pema Pera: I made a few notes, during the first hour Saturday, let me see whether I can find them
    Fael Illyar: well, SL carries netiquette instead :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes Maxine, each brings their own etiquette set and the point of intersection, the larger etiquette set
    Maxine Walden: netiquette, interesting term
    Fael Illyar: it's what I'm used to calling the etiquette used on internet :)
    Maxine Walden: I see, Fael. Great term. I recall, Pema, that you were writing a few notes
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I think that was included formally in the dictionary a few years back :) an interesting pastime, to observe the evolution of language
    Maxine Walden: and I think I recall feeling 'well, Pema is in charge, he is the leader...' something like that, which is a capitulation on my part, looking for a leader
    Caledonia Heron: there was a study that indicated the rate of change for any given word it directly related to it's usage.
    Fael Illyar thought it'd be inversely related to usage
    Maxine Walden: is that so, Cal, makes sense. Change related to usage...everyone's input or slightly different take perhaps
    Caledonia Heron: yes, the more a word is used, the longer it takes the usage of it to change
    Caledonia Heron: the past tense of helped used to be holp for example
    Caledonia Heron: [think I remembered that correctly]



    Pema Pera: sorry, took me a while to type: I have a few hand written notes of the first hour, Saturday, and I just typed them in. Here goes: Threedee: the group here is oriented more specifically than typical academic workshop meetings
    Pema: yet at the same time the background of the members is more diverse
    Genesis: one thing I think we all learned in PaB is "the world is not what I thought it was"
    Sky: from seeking to seeing
    Pia: we all have a compass that tells us what we look for in PaB and why.
    Pema Pera: (not verbatim, obviously, and with large gaps in between)
    Pema Pera: (I wish there were voice logs :)
    Maxine Walden: thanks though for typing it is
    [a bit of rl identity data removed here]
    Pema Pera: And here is a nice metaphor from 3D:
    Pema Pera: Threedee: grasping a feather in midair doesn't work, but holding up your hand does work -- as long as you put your hand underneath the feather, not just anywhere
    Maxine Walden: just trying to reach back in memory to the weekend; yes, that was a lovely image he gave of the feather
    Pema Pera: Also in the first hour, Genesis talked about control: we like to find ways to systematically push buttons to get closer to Being in our practice, but that doesn't work, we'll have to let Being present itself, can't grasp for it (in response to Threedee's metaphor)
    Maxine Walden: that first hour we must have been trying to span the SL images with our RL experiences right there in the room
    Maxine Walden: sort of like what Cal was saying earlier
    Caledonia Heron: :)



    Pema Pera: Then at the end of the first hour, I believe it still was, Stevenaia came up with a great story: his boss sent him and co-workers to a work-related retreat, in order to get them in line with his company-vision (there was too much that the boss didn't like in him), but the result of the retreat, at least for Stevenaia was that there was more of him that the boss didn't like than before :-)
    Caledonia Heron: that's funny - along the "you get what you resist" line of thought
    Pema Pera: yeah
    Fael Illyar: resistance breeds things that can handle the resistance
    Maxine Walden: I am recalling that both Sat and Sun morning i seemed to come a little late: could not find the room for a bit on Sat morning and then Sunday morning thought we were to meet at 9am at the diner. On both occasions it seemed that everyone had gathered previously, or I had gotten the time wrong which left me feeling a bit disoriented, that I was the one slightly late or out of step.
    Fael Illyar: ah, comparing yourself with others.
    Pema Pera: so all in all, though we had a lot of chitchat, there were quite a few gems already in the first hour on Saturday -- but perhaps we were distracted by the novelty of all that RL body language, and perhaps just voice more than anything else! I think if we would have had a voice session in SL, it may well have been the case that the transition chat->voice in SL would have been bigger than the subsequent transition voiceSL to RL
    Caledonia Heron: mmm, a little out of the main groove at the start? I'm sure everyone made you feel welcome :)
    Fael Illyar: it takes some effort to learn not to do that so much.



    corry Scarmon: hello guys
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corry
    Caledonia Heron: yes, mitigating one element of "surprise" :)
    Pema Pera: hi Corry!
    Caledonia Heron: hi corry
    corry Scarmon: whats up?
    Maxine Walden: Maybe that was my resistance or expression of 'being out of the loop'. Wondering if we each had a feeling of being out of the loop, at least out of the loop we had envisioned
    Fael Illyar: what loop?
    Pema Pera: I think we did, Maxine, we were all out of our familiar SL loop at least!
    Caledonia Heron: I am out of the loop many times ... often where I live :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Fael Illyar: too many loops to count :P
    Caledonia Heron: even when you think you're in the loop something can occur that indicates you were incorrect about your "loopness"
    Pema Pera: oh, yes!
    Fael Illyar: you're always in a loop ... just not necessarily the one you want to be in
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Caledonia Heron: a miscomunication, a slight, a breach of trust, the overheard words
    Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, and Cal. Maybe we have an imagined 'loop' of expectation about 'how it will be' , and that imagining is a loop we are often not aware of, can trip up
    Pema Pera: indeed, in many ways :) and that's were friendship helps, and trust



    corry Scarmon: what is the topic?
    corry Scarmon: of what ur talking about?
    Caledonia Heron: pretty free-form today corry :)
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/ is our web site
    Caledonia Heron: it's nice to see you again :)
    Maxine Walden: Corry, loops might be the topic, but that does not say much, does it?
    Pema Pera: the topic is Play as Being in general, as we call it
    corry Scarmon: yeah u too
    Pema Pera: Oh, have you been here before, Corry?
    corry Scarmon: yes
    Pema Pera: ah, sorry, nice to meet you!
    Caledonia Heron: I have met corry once before, here at the pavilion
    corry Scarmon: nice to meet u too
    Pema Pera: We're talking about a RL meeting that we were all in, last weekend
    Pema Pera: in Princeton, NJ
    Fael Illyar: oh, corry vanished
    Maxine Walden: did we sound that out to lunch? Might have
    Caledonia Heron: corry is a very new av, trying to figure out what sl is about ... Wol and I gave him a list of ways to approach being here ... he is still "traveling" and finding his place :)
    [personal comments removed on request]



    Pema Pera: I keep wondering how it must be to be new in SL and then find PaB, also a very new idea, and dealing with both novelties at the same time!
    Pema Pera: Well, Maxine is an example here :-)
    Fael Illyar very much doubts PaB is the only novelty you'll find here.
    Pema Pera: (^_^)
    Maxine Walden: I'm an example of what, Pema?
    Pema Pera: how it must be to be new in SL and then find PaB, also a very new idea, and dealing with both novelties at the same time!
    Pema Pera: although for you the order of finding was the other way around
    Pema Pera: first hearing about PaB then coming to SL because of it
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, that's right. Guess I was thinking for a moment that 6 months on SL was being an old timer...yes meshing to two has been something, but in a way perhaps because of the synchronicity I seem to feel PaB and SL just go together
    Maxine Walden: but I am indeed still a newbie on SL compared to most of you
    Fael Illyar: for me SL is a larger entity an PaB.
    Pema Pera: oh yes, you're an oldtimer now, Maxine, even with your own house here! But I remember how in early April all was new for you
    Caledonia Heron: you're doing great Maxine! we're all learning, nobody knows it all :)
    Pema Pera: SL is like a country, really, with its own blend of cultures
    Maxine Walden: absolutely, Pema, and I was very uncertain about this 'new world' and of getting lost in it
    Fael Illyar: but other than PaB, I'm not spending much time on anything else here now
    Caledonia Heron: :) Fael ... it's amazing what a feat of strength time management in sl takes :)
    Fael Illyar: or well, depends on what you count as PaB :)
    Maxine Walden: holding one's boundaries in SL is interesting because there is such a draw to get lost...yes, time management Cal and Fael
    Maxine Walden: (have to watch my time here, have about 8 min or so before I have to go)
    Fael Illyar: but truly, it's quite easy to just spend way too much time here :)
    Caledonia Heron: there is a concrete example of time management in sl :)
    Caledonia Heron: hats off Maxine :)



    Pema Pera: getting into SL feels a bit like the story of the sorcerer's apprentice to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer%27s_Apprentice
    Pema Pera: it is like magic, but it is easy to let it control you, rather than the other way around
    Maxine Walden: mmm, thanks, Cal. Have to manage between these different worlds, SL, RL, BL perhaps
    Caledonia Heron: yes, you can lose yourself in the magic
    Fael Illyar: BL?
    Maxine Walden: yes, nice image the Sorcerer's Apprentice. As I recall the apprentice lost control because he had no idea how small he was compared to the magic at hand
    Caledonia Heron: big life, the superset of sl and rl I think :)
    Maxine Walden: BL we spoke about earlier as , yes Big Life, as Cal has just said
    Fael Illyar: how about just L for that :)
    Pema Pera: RL, SL, and Being Life :-), yes the "Big L" we just came up with today, before you arrived
    Fleet Goldenberg is Online
    Pema Pera: just L, I like that!
    Pema Pera: (tempted to write JL, resisting that mightely . . .)
    Caledonia Heron: just is a tricky word :)
    Pema Pera: just is just a four-letter word ;)
    Caledonia Heron: so is soap but not near as tricky :)
    Maxine Walden: Oh, boy, we are off onto four letter words!!
    Caledonia Heron: :),
    Pema Pera: with a nod to "Love is just a four-letter word", who was the first to sing that?
    Pema Pera: Joan Baez?
    Fael Illyar: ah, Cal, Maxine, do you see the new logo on wiki now?
    Maxine Walden: soap is slippery, 'just' is tricky...
    Caledonia Heron: I believe she sang that Pema :)
    Maxine Walden: no, Fael, have not seen it, will do, the new logo
    Maxine Walden: Fael
    Fael Illyar: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Caledonia Heron: oh, with the pab words in different script?
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Fael Illyar: plus small kira logo on the top right
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I noticed that
    Caledonia Heron: a type of branding, yes?
    Pema Pera: and also the "hand that feeds (the tier)" :>)
    Caledonia Heron: ah, hungry tier monster :)



    Maxine Walden: hey folks gotta go, nice to see and to play together. See you soon
    Fael Illyar: well, if people don't like it, it can be removed I suppose :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: great to see you again, Maxine!
    Caledonia Heron: bye Maxine, nice to see you :)
    Maxine Walden: bye
    Caledonia Heron: some avs arrive and leave in twinkles and some in glowy vapors
    Pema Pera: wondered about that, yes!
    Pema Pera: well, it's time for me to move too, almost an hour has gone by again
    Fael Illyar: you can have attachments that leave a particle cloud behind when you appear/leave
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Caledonia Heron: I seem to be a glowy av these days, used to circle twinkle
    Pema Pera: or hearts . . .
    Caledonia Heron: yes, me also :)
    Fael Illyar: well, that's a particle cloud :)
    Caledonia Heron: I did not change or add anything I don't believe
    Pema Pera: c u all soon again!
    Caledonia Heron: nice to see everyone, talk to you soon :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later, Cal :)
    Caledonia Heron: bye Fael :)

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