2008.10.24 07:00 - Assumptions and Personal Appearances

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    When I (quen) entered Umbriel, stevenaia and Geo were already there.
    I was dying to hear how the rl meeting was, as I was off the radar for 2 weeks..

    Geo Netizen: Hello Umbriel … Quen.
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    quen Oh: hello Umbriel, Geo and steven
    quen Oh: how are you?
    Geo Netizen: Pax et bonum

    Maxine enters.

    quen Oh is freezing, just back from spain to find my heating system is no more working...
    quen Oh: hello Maxine
    Geo Netizen: Hi Maxine
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Geo Netizen: This is a day off for me so I’m great …
    Geo Netizen: How's everyone else?
    quen Oh: hi Faenik too
    Maxine Walden: hi, all
    Umbriel Levenque: well thank you
    Faenik: ^^
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Maxine, I was jsut listening to some 7:00 logs and was drawn here
    Maxine Walden: ah, glad you came; anything especially draw you here?
    stevenaia Michinaga: there was one with you and adams and riddle with your dream and considering expectations related to the RL meeting

    stevenaia brings up the notion of path...

    stevenaia Michinaga: But recently I was having thought on the path we travel to Being
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, early in the week...but what about the path we travel...
    stevenaia Michinaga: and perhaps it is more important than the destination
    quen Oh: what thought steven?
    quen Oh: ah
    stevenaia Michinaga: that was most of what I sensed from the RL meeting
    quen Oh: why is there a path...
    Maxine Walden: agree, the path(s) we travel...
    quen Oh: must be important, being at the end apparently is not a given..
    stevenaia Michinaga: and morse so that we all travel to the same place but each of us takes a different path
    stevenaia Michinaga: *more
    Geo Netizen: Traveling to would it would be ‘becoming’ …
    Geo Netizen: Isn’t Being something we take with us?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not place but destination
    stevenaia Michinaga: I sence being as a greater perception
    quen Oh: which needs a path
    stevenaia Michinaga: it becomes more to us as we take our journey
    stevenaia Michinaga: to me, I should say
    quen Oh: if we need to reach Being, than maybe the Being needs us on the path..
    Umbriel Levenque: um... is Being the 'destination'?
    stevenaia Michinaga: well, if it is, not sure it can be gotten to, which makes the journey that much more important
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure life as a board game is the appropriate metaphor
    Geo Netizen: We are Being at this moment …. We are also ‘becoming’ …
    stevenaia Michinaga: a goal to get somewhere
    Faenik: ah :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: more like a recent walk in the forest, it surrounds you but doesn;t lead you
    stevenaia Michinaga: exactly Geo
    Maxine Walden: (this is one of those mornings when I have to leave early, like at about 7:27 SL, just a forwarning)
    Umbriel Levenque: thank you Maxine
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry to see you go so soon
    Maxine Walden: your mention of the path, Steve, reminds me of the main point of my dream, as I recall, in which there was a question 'Can you dream Montana?' and to me Montana represents an honest, earnest landscape
    Maxine Walden: yes, sorry I have to as well leave early, but I will try to 'be' here as best I can while I can
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...smile
    stevenaia Michinaga: I to can't stay the entire hour, always nice to meet this group at a different tim
    Umbriel Levenque googles for images of Montana...
    Umbriel Levenque: ah... 'A River Runs Through It' county...
    quen Oh: sorry you have to leave early Maxine
    Maxine Walden: ah, my recent experience there was actually quite emotional: my husband's mother died recently and we took her ashes to a gravesite in central Montana and then drove back through country that reminded my husband of his childhood Montana. It was quite a journey

    Corvuscorva enters.

    qsuen Oh: sounds like a beautiful landscape Maxine
    Maxine Walden: and I guess the emotions for him and the pristine, often rugged landscape, including a mountain road with a sharp dropoff (I was driving at that time!!) was quite memorable
    Geo Netizen: The phrasing you used Mazxne … ‘Can you dream Montana?’ …
    Geo Netizen: Is different from usual … which would be dream OF Montana.
    Geo Netizen: Was that intentional?
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    stevenaia Michinaga: that note it was brought up in that log as well,
    quen Oh: hello Corvu!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya, Quen...all.
    stevenaia Michinaga: business calls, I must go, thank you all for listening
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi/bye Corvi
    Geo Netizen: Hi Corvi good to see you
    quen Oh: bye steven, nice to see you
    Umbriel Levenque: good day to you stevenaia
    Maxine Walden: Oh, sorry, Geo, that quote was from a dream in which someone said actually "How can you dream Montana?" and that question which is akin to a dream image for me was what I was thinking about. Should have explained more

    stevenaia leaves.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Steve...by steve, Hello, Geo.
    Faenik loves wells!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Maxine!
    quen Oh: were you all at the weekend?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no, only maxine.
    Maxine Walden: the weekend in Princeton, quen? I was there
    quen Oh: yes, indeed
    quen Oh: (was out of all internet and vr loop due to not well working systems in south of spain; just got back)
    quen Oh: how was it?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Maxine Walden: the weekend was eventful (as southern Spain may have been as well, tho perhaps in different ways).
    quen Oh: nice! must be interesting to meet each other rl
    quen Oh: (southern spain was suffering under my bad karma, but seemed to like the typical dutch rainy weather I brought)
    Maxine Walden: My own experience was to be confronted once again with how many assumptions (about folks, about what will happen) I held. Yes, very interesting to meet RL versions of SL assumptions
    quen Oh: (one day all the telephone, internet, bankpayment system etc was off...)
    Maxine Walden: Oh, disappointing, quen?
    quen Oh: no, not really disappointing, accept for the lack of internet and the frustration trying to solve that
    Umbriel Levenque: good thing you went Spain... they need some rain there
    quen Oh: its a beatiful area, and indeed they can use rain
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Umbriel!!
    quen Oh: maybe next time I should head for the sahara
    Maxine Walden: have to go folks, sorry to leave so soon, I know it can feel disruptive...
    Faenik: indeed?
    Umbriel Levenque: heheh
    quen Oh: not at all Maxine
    Umbriel Levenque: good day to you Maxine
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles...I was glad I got here before you left.
    Geo Netizen: Bye Maxine ... nice to see you.
    quen Oh: happy to see you, have a nice day
    Maxine Walden: see you all again soon, I hope. Bye for now
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Maxine!

    Maxine leaves. And we go on about assumptions.

    Geo Netizen: Assumptions can help organize a complex environment for action but …
    Geo Netizen: They can also ‘color’ our perceptions and ....
    Geo Netizen: cause problems
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    quen Oh: what kind of assumptions went down in princeton??
    Umbriel Levenque: often it's unavoidable as we try to understand each other
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and thinks about them being good if you don't get too attached.
    Umbriel Levenque: (well if that's what one wants to do that is)
    quen Oh: it's only an effort of your knowledge system to temporarily place things and connect with what you know.. if you see that it can be wrong it's less shocking when you are wrong
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... very true
    quen Oh: agree with you Umbriel
    Umbriel Levenque: I always assume I'm dead wrong about people, way off mark :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: and I am!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods....Umbriel!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you are sooooooo on the mark, so often.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: at least with me.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Umbriel Levenque: ah... Corvi, thank you :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but perhaps you mean...in external things?
    quen Oh: very often when I first time meet someone, immediately someone I know, sometimes even someone I thought I was long forgotten springs to mind as seeming alike this person
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    quen Oh: lol Corvu
    Umbriel Levenque: well I've read few logs where Geo appears and somehow imagined you as a younger AV - there! I was wrong again. What fun.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Quen....
    Geo Netizen: :)
    Umbriel Levenque: well all assumptions I suppose Corvi
    Umbriel Levenque: young spirited voice, it must be Geo
    Umbriel Levenque: 'young'*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm
    Geo Netizen: We do need assumptions to avoid over load but …
    Geo Netizen: We must always recognize them for what they are …
    Geo Netizen: and be ready to adjust.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire recognizes something there.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: lack of assumptions = uncertainty = looking = overload.
    Umbriel Levenque: interesting...
    Geo Netizen: Having to analysse all details ....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, considers.
    Geo Netizen: Situations are always very complex
    quen Oh: it's interesting to study them lightly, they are both useful as they contain complex information and misleading as they are not perfect or suited for new situations
    Faenik: could be
    Umbriel Levenque: acceptance of uncertainty can help 'overload'?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm.
    quen Oh: could you explain Umbriel?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: only if it leads to "not looking"
    Umbriel Levenque: one cannot understand another, events of past or predict the future... not completely. if I accept this as an avoidable fact then... I can let it be more I suppose. Make less assumptions and think/analysise less...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's the looking for more information that causes the overload.
    Umbriel Levenque: and dream of 'Montana' more :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or rather the recieving of it.
    quen Oh: thats exactly their function don't you think Corvu? assumptions to be usefull carriers of information which you can combine with looking in order to develop better ones?
    Geo Netizen: In the classic case of ‘flight or stay’ a decision had to be made right away …
    Umbriel Levenque: yes Corvi... looking, attempt to 'understand' causes overloading
    Geo Netizen: Our tendency to make assumptions developed to aid in making that decision in a timely manner.
    quen Oh: agree Geo!
    Umbriel Levenque: please say more Geo
    quen Oh: in that respect there is an interesting book about decisionmaking in stress situations
    Geo Netizen: Title ?
    quen Oh: (searching it)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Geo Netizen: Where is Faenik anyway ... don't see ...
    quen Oh: Sources of Power, by Gary Klein
    Geo Netizen: Thanks :)
    quen Oh: How people make decisions, MIT press, 1998
    Umbriel Levenque: (He's on my shoulder Geo)
    Geo Netizen: Ahhhh
    quen Oh: the more experience you have, the more you see
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: becaue you can thread the new into the old.
    Geo Netizen: More experience == better assumptions
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and find a place for it to fit.
    quen Oh: and if you see a lot, you can make decisions, its the opposite of information overload in fact
    Faenik: why not?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sort of.
    Umbriel Levenque: more experiences... not necessarily 'better' assumptions
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no
    quen Oh: they describe emergency doctors, fireworkers, pilots etc
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you can thread the wrong info in.
    Geo Netizen: True
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or in the wrong place,
    quen Oh: not necessarily indeed Corvu
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or...you can still try to put too many threads in at once.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: tying something new in all over.

    Fael enters.

    Umbriel Levenque: more experiences = better asumptions: brings loads of disappointments imo
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Fael.
    Umbriel Levenque: Hey Fael
    quen Oh: well it helps you assess a situation and see more details
    Geo Netizen: Hi Fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's true, too, Quen.
    quen Oh: but of course information can be wrong
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there are two levels of knoing, here, though
    Umbriel Levenque: in a way that is also an assumption, similar to 'age' = 'wisdom'
    Geo Netizen: Also true
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the knowledge of the crisis situation are partly housed in the body, not hte brain.
    Fael Illyar: more experiences does get you better assumptions but disappointments will still follow as you can't get them perfect.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that takes repitition...
    quen Oh: in stress situation you have to handle quickly, and so with a better archive of useful assumptions you can more easy find useful details, and a working solution
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Umbriel Levenque: need Adelene to discuss 'meta' assumptions :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..yes.
    quen Oh: the book describes the playing your solution in your head quickly to see if it works to test it
    quen Oh: evaluation whether there could be more and even better solutions often is not there... ,no time
    Fael Illyar: meta assumption just means assumptions about assumptions :)
    Geo Netizen: More experience may not produce better assumptions but …
    Geo Netizen: Better assumptions requires experience.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire ndos.
    quen Oh: hello Fael ;-) and I agree
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and digging deep to question on a regular basis.
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: but assumptions are not that big of a problem if you're fast at letting them go :)
    quen Oh: better assumptions requires a critical open mind, which doesn't stop really looking..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if you can get rid of the need to question "what do I do with a flame"
    Geo Netizen: But not too fast either.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you can start to conssider the bigger decisions.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like who do I save?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: when, wehre, how?
    Umbriel Levenque: we were discussing how useful assumptions in certain situations so far if I understood correctly
    Fael Illyar: or well, one of my issues has been thinking badly of myself for making bad assumptions.

    Neela enters. She is a snow leopard today.

    quen Oh: I read a book about decisionmaking in crisis situations: Sources of Power, by Gary Klein, was fascinating
    Fael Illyar: Hi Neela
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
    quen Oh: crisis situations meaning stress and urgent ones
    Fael Illyar: Oh, tiger :)
    Geo Netizen: Hello Neela good to see you again.
    Neela Blaisdale: Got too curious
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Neela..pats her lap.
    quen Oh: hey neela
    Neela Blaisdale: snow leopard
    quen Oh: :-)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses the leapord a kipper.
    Neela Blaisdale: sorry hope I'm not interrrupting the discussion
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we are discussing assumptions..give me a second to make a notercard...
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    quen Oh: not at all Neela
    quen Oh: it was started by how some assumptions were crushed in the meeting in princeton for some people
    Neela Blaisdale: In what way?
    Umbriel Levenque: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...hlight=montana
    Fael Illyar: well, many people looked quite surprised when I told them who I was :)
    Umbriel Levenque: It followed from Maxine's comments from this log
    quen Oh: in what way Fael? what were they expecting?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Fael Illyar: expecting me to be female :)

    We have a new guest: sofia Chronisz.

    quen Oh: ah lol, yes, that happens often in SL men taking female ava
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or vice versa
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Umbriel Levenque: this particular comments from Maxine rings true to me... "one of my reptiles has been to idealize others, that they have the answer, the best ideas, that they should be the leaders... and once again it feels that I have had to learn that gentle lesson that to idealize another. is to bypass the quiet inner authority of the self which is really the one to follow"
    Geo Netizen: Hellos Sofia
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    quen Oh: I was told mostly male taking female ones, about one sixth of the men even..
    Umbriel Levenque: that one is one's best teacher
    quen Oh: hi sofia
    sofia Chronisz: hello everybody
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello Sofia
    sofia Chronisz: may i sit down
    Umbriel Levenque: please
    quen Oh: nice indeed Umbriel
    sofia Chronisz: tx
    quen Oh: of course feel welcome sofia
    Geo Netizen: Have you been here before Sofia?
    sofia Chronisz: no its the first time geo
    sofia Chronisz: nice place
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Geo Netizen: Please know that these chat sessions are recorded.
    Geo Netizen: and eventually posted on Wiki
    sofia Chronisz: ok
    quen Oh: ah I can give you a notecard which explains you what we try to do here
    Geo Netizen: Hope you don't mind?
    sofia Chronisz: no please
    sofia Chronisz: i amcurious
    sofia Chronisz accepted your inventory offer.
    quen Oh: but the best place to find out more is to come here more often, or to look at the wiki
    sofia Chronisz: thats very interesting
    quen Oh: if you have any questions just fire them ;-)
    sofia Chronisz: i will thanks a lot
    Geo Netizen: Do you think that stat about one-sixth female av’s are men is accurate.
    quen Oh: all kinds of people, leopards etc are meeting here 4 times a day
    Umbriel Levenque: assumptions in themselves are not inherently negative imo... other than inflexible in adjusting them, what else would make assumptions negative?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I do
    quen Oh: some often, some less often, feel free to join in when you want
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think lots of people play areound with avie identity.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: lions are one way..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: gender is the easiest.
    Fael Illyar: Geo, I heard someone else claim that 40% of female AVs in SL are men in RL.
    Geo Netizen: BTW Sofia ... multi-tread discussion are the norm here.
    sofia Chronisz: i heard that too
    Geo Netizen: It can get pretty chaotic :)
    quen Oh: I agree Umbriel, they are only negative if you are unaware of them, and so they prevent you from really looking at things
    Neela Blaisdale: ;)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks.
    Umbriel Levenque: chaos can be fun
    sofia Chronisz: i even read a book from a dutch writer who was a female avatar in sl
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we all have that kind of assumption.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the kind we don't question.
    quen Oh: or worse if you are aware of them, but you prefer them above really looking, because you like a safe world where nothing changes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or at least almost all of us do.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe buddha didn't, or christ.
    quen Oh: and alas, we cannot say we are aware of all our delusional assumptions
    Neela Blaisdale is thinking somewhat confusing feeling when change av so draastically
    Umbriel Levenque: delusional?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire watches Neela.
    Umbriel Levenque: possibly still looking for the inner leopard Neela?
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Fael Illyar: it takes a while to get used to new AV :)
    Neela Blaisdale: want to see if it changes mine and thers assumptions
    quen Oh: I think so, at least some aspects of assumptions can be, as you have not checked them all in 'reality' so they create a -sometimes useful- picture you can work with
    Neela Blaisdale: *o
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles...it does, mine.
    sofia Chronisz: i have a question
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ask!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Neela Blaisdale: questions always welcome here
    quen Oh smiles to sofia
    sofia Chronisz: how about having more then one avatar
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like two accounts?
    sofia Chronisz: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or two costumes?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...
    sofia Chronisz: no two accounts
    quen Oh: no problem to me, having more accounts or more ava's
    quen Oh: have you?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: some people do both.
    quen Oh grins, she could turn into quenman
    sofia Chronisz: i have another avatar and i notice that with her i developed a different caracter
    Fael Illyar: having two accounts for radically different avatars keeps other people happier on the average.

    Corvu turns into a man ("Corey"). I turn into 'quenman' (not a hero, just a blond guy in a tux) and Fael is transforming into her male ava.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Sofia.
    Neela Blaisdale: yes people talk about that.
    Neela Blaisdale: Have sometimes wanted to try a male av to see what that's like
    Geo Netizen: By different character do you mean you respond to other differently?
    sofia Chronisz: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles and looks through her inventory for some of her male shapes and skins.
    sofia Chronisz: my other avi is jeaulous
    quen Oh: have no problem if people do, can imagine it's an interesting way to explore SL
    Geo Netizen: Hmmmm ...
    sofia Chronisz: my other is a woman too
    sofia Chronisz: not a man
    Neela Blaisdale: yes one reason I'm trying this today
    quen Oh: lol you don't mean you use your ava to spy on some ava's you know out of jealousy?
    sofia Chronisz: not that
    sofia Chronisz: but the other one cosime knows the same ppl as me
    Neela Blaisdale: so if people react to your av's differently here, and you are still the same person, then here in SL you are allowed to expres your whole self..
    Umbriel Levenque: I also have a different account
    sofia Chronisz: you could put it that way
    quen Oh: interesting Neela :-)
    Geo Netizen: Whooo ... Corvi ... nice :)
    Umbriel Levenque: never seen that shape Corvi
    Umbriel Levenque: quen either
    Umbriel Levenque: (oh well brb)
    Neela Blaisdale: so what does that mean for how people react to you in RL? it would seem that in RL one is limited a lot more
    sofia Chronisz: wow

    Umbriel Levenque leaves to come back as Gaya.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..I don't wear Corey often.
    Fael Illyar: uh, since everyone is doing that :P
    quen Oh bows at Corvu
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks at Quen and thinks...wow
    Geo Netizen: Shape changers ... Star Trek ...?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm not sure I'm wearing Corey very well this second.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Still an inner Corvi, for sure.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya, Gaya...grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.

    And there is Gaya.

    Geo Netizen: Hi Gaya
    quen Oh is staring at Fael transforming
    Fael Illyar: now ,where did I hide the hair
    sofia Chronisz: hello gaya
    Neela Blaisdale: So interesting- immediately I notice you feel differently to me
    quen Oh: hello Gaya!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, laughs...it is interesting, isn't it?
    quen Oh: I put all of quenman in one folder, so I could do a 'replace outfit'
    Neela Blaisdale: Actually all of you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: disconceting.
    Gaya Ethaniel: finally
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel different to me, when I change shapes, too.
    Fael Illyar grins.
    sofia Chronisz: i never changed myself into a man
    Neela Blaisdale: yes feels like I miss all of you who now look different
    sofia Chronisz: am afraid i will stay like that lol
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, Fael...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire still hears Corvi...
    quen Oh: so now you are Gaya...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Neela Blaisdale: although I know you're all the same people you were 5minutes ago
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes, me too, Neela
    Gaya Ethaniel babbles far more as Gaya
    Fael Illyar: this is actually the first time I'm using this shape in public with this account.
    Geo Netizen: Still the same 'Being' ...

    I turn into an ava that is called mimic, a strange creature in a wooden chest, which can fly or make itself a rolling vessel in case of danger..

    Geo Netizen: O ... what happend to Quen?
    Neela Blaisdale: yes so why does it feel so different?
    quen Oh smiles
    Geo Netizen: Good question :)
    quen Oh: hehe this is one of my favourites... lol
    quen Oh: if I turn off my tag no one would notice me
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles. nice one quen
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Quen.you and sofia have slipped into the floor.
    Geo Netizen: A Pandora box?
    Neela Blaisdale: come back Quen
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we can't see you.
    quen Oh: lol I am in a box
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah!
    Gaya Ethaniel: the first time to use this shape as Fael?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I love it!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmph
    Fael Illyar: first time in public ... but the first time it's more than a minute.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am not Corey today
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm Corvi in a boy outfit.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...

    After rolling around the place and coming out of my chest to pet Neela, who is a silver-grey leopard today I quickly hide again in the chest.

    Geo Netizen: Are you Corey sometimes .... ie feel Corey?
    quen Oh pets Neela
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Quen!
    quen Oh quickly hides in her box
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you are pandora's box!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I see!
    quen Oh: lol
    Fael Illyar didn't feel like logging out so just changed shape.
    sofia Chronisz: i have to go now
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    sofia Chronisz: goodnight everybody
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am glad to see you as Fael in boy clothes
    Fael Illyar: I hope to see you here again, Sofia
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: by Sofia!
    Neela Blaisdale: bye Sofia, come back again
    sofia Chronisz: i will surely come back
    quen Oh: I hope we have not shocked you sofia, nice to see you here
    Geo Netizen: Very nice to meet you Sofia... hope to see you agina
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am glad.
    sofia Chronisz: oh no i am not easily chocked
    Fael Illyar: bye, sofia :)
    quen Oh: interesting Fael
    sofia Chronisz: bye
    Neela Blaisdale prowls about
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Corey in Corvi's ao

    sofia leaves.

    quen Oh giggles in her box
    Fael Illyar: initially copied the shape over so I can try out male skins if/when I see any that look promising

    Back to my normal ava.

    quen Oh: there.. back again
    Fael Illyar: well, I guess my few minutes is up, changing back :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh
    Fael Illyar: actually not yet
    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches Neela's ears
    quen Oh winks at Faenik, who is still a black hairy ball
    Faenik: why not?

    Fael turned into a fantastic flying book! Neela turned back into her female shape.

    quen Oh: hehehe Fael lol
    quen Oh: very very funny
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    quen Oh: a flying book
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the book
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice one Fael.
    Fael Illyar: freebie ... or at least almost freebie :)
    Neela Blaisdale: lol
    quen Oh: :-) nice
    Neela Blaisdale: Whew!
    quen Oh: in fact Geo's ava is special too! I often heard people complain that all look like teenager moviestars in Sl

    Geo has the ava of an old, wise man, which is rare in SL.

    Geo Netizen: At least not your normal Sl av ...
    Neela Blaisdale: yes noticed that about Geo, figured he must be very secure
    Fael Illyar: yes, it's rare for someone to actually look old
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Corvi reallllly likes that avie.
    quen Oh: certainly not, and with charactre
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Geo Netizen: O .... intersting though ...
    quen Oh: thats something you never know in SL, anybody could be anyone ;-) ava's are only pixels here
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Geo Netizen: It’s probably the grandfather effect ..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: keeps us on our toes.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: might be.
    Geo Netizen: We can be fooled in FL too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: coupled with a wonderful personality.
    Gaya Ethaniel: my hair is not pink in FL no...
    Geo Netizen blushes
    quen Oh: Geo could be an insecure teenager who wants finally to be taken serious... ;-)
    Geo Netizen: Excellent point !
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: you can fool people about what you have but not about what you are :P
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    quen Oh: though its the talking and what you say which does the trick in SL
    quen Oh: your hair could be pink Gaya?
    Geo Netizen: Excellent point
    quen Oh: dye and you cry
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: do you guys mind we just go back to assumptions? I'm interested to know why Fael felt bad about herself...
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... please ...
    quen Oh is wondering about whether Gaya has a black hairy ball on her shoulder rl too
    quen Oh: and does it talk>>
    quen Oh: yes, please
    Gaya Ethaniel: could be quen could be ^^
    Fael Illyar: unfortunately, RL is whisking me away in a few minutes.
    quen Oh: ;-)
    quen Oh: I am sorry Fael
    Geo Netizen: O ... to bad ...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: good to see you, Fael.
    Neela Blaisdale: me too
    Geo Netizen: Sorry you have to go ..... such an intersting discussion
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok Fael. enjoy your day
    Neela Blaisdale: yes very
    Geo Netizen: Bye Fael
    Geo Netizen: Have a great day
    Faenik: indeed?
    quen Oh: bye Fael, gosh you leave with a cliffhanger
    Fael Illyar: few minutes ... as when Adams arrives.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Gaya Ethaniel: at least tell us why you felt bad if you know?
    Fael Illyar isn't reall happy with how the male shape looks overall. Too stark contrast in how much I like it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel the same way, Fael.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have itched in every shape.
    Fael Illyar: mostly due to not having a skin I like I think.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: part of why I have not become Corey..I can't get comfortable in any of the male shapes and skins.
    quen Oh: and you have tried a lot Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I've spent a few hours looking through skin shops
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah I see Corvi
    quen Oh: it's difficult indeed for men, I helped some with finding shapes, eyes, skins
    quen Oh: Minnu had the best I could find
    Neela Blaisdale: yes I think I would feel strange as a man
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, and considers Minnu
    quen Oh: for quenman I used freebies
    Neela Blaisdale: but it would be interesting
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like Umbriel... how he looks and happy to be him really
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like Umbriel about the best of men's shapes.
    Neela Blaisdale: But you can't change your av name right ?
    quen Oh: indeed not Neela
    Gaya Ethaniel: I adjusted the shape myself (even now tweaking a bit at times) but bought the skin
    Fael Illyar: another reason for alts I guess :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..do another account.
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes Gaya is a female name so I decided to get another account
    Neela Blaisdale: Hmm... but I'd feel like I missed you all because you wouldn't know its me
    quen Oh: yes probably, unless you have a neutral name, when in male avie, nobody even thinks quen is female
    Fael Illyar: Fael could be either ... well, at least in my view.
    Neela Blaisdale: which I suppose is the point
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: right
    quen Oh: yes think so too Fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Neela..even Corvuscorva might be tricky.
    quen Oh: well you could tell us Neela
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but the few times I've used Corey, strangers didn't twig.
    Neela Blaisdale: well this has been such an interesting discussion, haye to
    Neela Blaisdale: whoops
    Neela Blaisdale: See you all soon ... in one form or another!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    quen Oh: bye Neela
    Fael Illyar: well, using Quel's looks on Fael really did shake me up a bit it looks like.
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye
    Geo Netizen: So long Neela
    Fael Illyar: See you later Neela :)
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Neela Blaisdale" from list.
    quen Oh is curious where Geo got his skin.. you make it yourself Geo?
    Gaya Ethaniel: wonder how it feels to have such radically different shapes under one name Corvi
    Geo Netizen: No .... bought it
    quen Oh: ah
    Geo Netizen: Did a search for 'old man'
    Fael Illyar: those are for sale if you can find the shops :)
    quen Oh: never searched... ;-)
    quen Oh: made quenman for a joke
    Gaya Ethaniel: I searched but couldn't find any...
    quen Oh: and I love Grendel's ava's
    Fael Illyar: one thing SL has brought in from RL. The difficulty of finding things :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: also quite impossible to find old skins for females
    Geo Netizen nods
    quen Oh: which is also the fun, when you find and discover things

    Neela Blaisdale left.

    Gaya Ethaniel: I want to be old in SL... but not very successful finding right skins
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure the novelty of being old would wear out soon but would be interesting to be an old AV
    Geo Netizen: Skin is just skin ...
    quen Oh: I like to experiment from time to time with other avies, but somehow I come to like this one, feels familiar now
    Geo Netizen: It does look great :)
    quen Oh: MB SKINS claims to have old skins
    Gaya Ethaniel: true Geo... I stop looking at AVs after a while once I get to know them. Just what they type really
    Fael Illyar: It's difficult to detach yourself from what you think different things mean. Especially when you don't know any who disagree.
    Geo Netizen: Gaya .... have you been an Emotional Wreck this whole time and I missed it?
    Fael Illyar: Well, anyhow, time to go :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later :)
    Geo Netizen: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    quen Oh: she has Geo..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: by Fael!
    quen Oh: by Fael
    quen Oh: bye*
    Gaya Ethaniel: For this meeting yes Geo
    Geo Netizen: Bye Fael

    Fael left.

    quen Oh: or that could refer to Faenik, the emotional wreck
    Gaya Ethaniel: nope it's a reminder no more quen
    Geo Netizen: But it says 'Emotiona Wreck' right about her name
    quen Oh: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: no one can be a 'wreck'... really
    Geo Netizen: :)
    quen Oh: sorry Geo, was making a joke
    Gaya Ethaniel: remind myself 'it's water, it's water'
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, listening.
    Gaya Ethaniel: easy to forget really
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: changes her tag, to see how it feels.
    Geo Netizen: Water ... as in off the back?
    Gaya Ethaniel: water as in what fish swims in... does the fish see water?
    Faenik: could be
    Geo Netizen: O ..
    quen Oh: you really have different feelings when you change tag or ava?
    Geo Netizen: this is so intesting ....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: definitely.
    Gaya Ethaniel: well... it's like when I hear the 9 sec bell quen... it's a reminder
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    quen Oh: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: most of time I don't need these reminders but sometimes I do that's all
    quen Oh: I see ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: when the cart is on the bumpy bits of roads :P
    quen Oh: and it helps I assume?
    Geo Netizen: interesting image :)
    Gaya Ethaniel hears the 9 sec bell
    quen Oh: I have a practical question though.. as I last 2 weeks was unfortunately not able to be online unexpectedly, don't want to make a mess of todays slot too, do we still log our meetings on the wiki, or is the autorecord doing it that?
    Gaya Ethaniel: we still have to do
    quen Oh: ok, I will do that than, also need to go over 2 weeks of email and send the group one, hoping desperately some of the slots I missed can be retrieved
    quen Oh: but fearing as I know you had your weekend too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: please email me if you can't get on..I can't ever promise I WILL be here..but I might well be.
    quen Oh: problem was I couldn't email too,..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
    quen Oh: couldn't get the internet connection to work in spain
    quen Oh: but now all is well as I am home
    Gaya Ethaniel: logs can be fished out of recorder if it worked properly I think... better send out an email and see quen
    quen Oh: though here I suddenly have no more a working heating system
    quen Oh: brrr
    quen Oh: I will Gaya, thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel: aww... no heater
    quen Oh: yes, will try to go fix that first...
    quen Oh: its less than 10 degrees and I don't like cold
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I wonder if Wol can grab them from there?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think she can.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    quen Oh: nice to have seen you all again though!!
    quen Oh: I hope she can :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: have a good day quen
    quen Oh: thanks for the help and have a good day too Gaya
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
    Geo Netizen: It's been a pleasure to meet you Quen
    quen Oh: and Corvu and Geo, bye bye
    quen Oh: likewise Geo
    Geo Netizen: Bye
    Faenik: ah :)

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