2008.11.23 13:00 - Of teachers and authority

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    The guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden.  The comments are hers.

    As I come to the Pavilion there are several already in conversation.  And over the next coupld of minutes several join us.

    Becka Finesmith: Cool. We didn't know what was happening :)
    Wol Euler: hello maxine
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Maxine
    Quilty Bookmite: Just thought you might not want your PVC to get wet 
    Wol. :-)
    Maxine Walden: hi, all
    Wol Euler grins
    Wol Euler: hello fael, umbriel

    There are a few concentric circles of cushions and I and others try to get comfortable in the group.Comments still about all the greetings.Faenik remains puzzled as usual.

    Maxine Walden: I'll come over to join the circle
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Fael and Umbriel
    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol, Maxine, Quilty, Becka :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Maxine, Becka, wol, Fael and Umbriel.
    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael, Becka, Quilty
    Becka Finesmith: It's like the waltons :)
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Faenik: ????^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight Jonboy
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Wol Euler: you're looking very elegant, umbriel

    Pema joins us and the comments including compliments continue

    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Pema
    Wol Euler: hello pema
    Umbriel Levenque: ^_^ thanks Wol. Looking lovely yourself
    Maxine Walden: hi Pema
    Wol Euler smiles. ty
    Pema Pera: Hi All !
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

    I think Pema refers to the innermost concentric circle now being filled...

    Pema Pera feels like an electron in an atom, soon we'll fill the inner 
    shell . . . .
    Becka Finesmith: we're gonna need a bigger boat
    Maxine Walden: this smaller circle seems to work nicely until more people come
    Wol Euler: :)

    Doug joins us. I believe the 'excited state' referred to Doug's trying to decide where to sit

    Wol Euler: hello doug
    Pema Pera: hi Doug!
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Doug
    Pema Pera: Doug is in an excited state . . . .
    doug Sosa: hi all :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Doug :)
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Quilty Bookmite: Almost feel like jumping to a higher energy level. :-)
    Pema Pera: outside the inner electron shell
    Faenik: ah :)
    Maxine Walden: making the circle bigger?

    And Geo joins us. And we still are speaking about the immediate seating environment

    Fael Illyar: Hi Geo :)
    Wol Euler: hello geo
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Geo
    Geo Netizen: Hi everyone
    doug Sosa: ought to know which element thi is :)
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Maxine Walden: hi Geo
    Pema Pera: hi Geo!
    Geo Netizen: Ah ... not fountain today :)
    Quilty Bookmite: It has been temporarily switched off.
    doug Sosa: just goes to show, this is a democracy :)
    Geo Netizen: Pax et bonum Umbriel
    Geo Netizen bows
    Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
    Geo Netizen dmiles
    Geo Netizen: --smiles--

    Thinking we are focussing upon our seating and perhaps our meeting arrangments I offer a comment:

    Maxine Walden: wondering how everyone is finding this expanded 
    guardian meeting schedule Pema has proposed
    Maxine Walden: seems like more can come to the various meetings over 
    the weekend
    Wol Euler: I think it's a good idea.
    Quilty Bookmite: Great for me. It means I can actually attend the odd 
    Fael Illyar: Yes, perhaps would be best to have them all on the weekend?

    Tarmel, new to the PaB meetings I believe, joined us.We continue to speak about the schedule of guardian meetings.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
    Wol Euler: hello tarmel, nice to see you again
    Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!
    Geo Netizen: Definitely give more opportunities for guardians to meet 
    but less incentives to meet as a larger group
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hi folks
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Pema Pera: yes, Geo, pro and con, for sure
    Geo Netizen: Hello Tamel
    Maxine Walden: hi Tarmel
    Pema Pera: Fael, which days and times would you suggest for the 
    meetings, to get them all on the weekend?
    Fael Illyar: Every meeting on Sunday? or perhaps two on Saturday and 
    two on Sunday?
    Becka Finesmith: Thenormal one is at 3am for me so hard to make. This 
    time is better :)

    Moon joins us.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Moon :)
    Wol Euler: hello moon
    Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
    doug Sosa: my participation here and in the normal sessions feels 
    weaker because particpation of other seems more random and fewer come 
    (small sample from me.).
    Quilty Bookmite: Making sure we hit each of the 4 daily slots seems 
    like a good idea, unless there is one slot which seems completely dead.
    Geo Netizen: Greetings Moon :)
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Pema Pera: Having them all on one day may make it more difficult to 
    attend several of them
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Moon.
    Pema Pera: and also some people may not find Sunday convenient in 
    Pema Pera: but it is an option, of course
    Maxine Walden: hi Moon
    Geo Netizen: And the public logs does mitigate to some extent the 
    multiple guardian meetings I think.
    Faenik loves wells!
    Becka Finesmith: Hello Moon
    Pema Pera: Hi Moon!
    Geo Netizen: So give more flexibility in scheduling

    Pema wonders about sounding out the guardian group withh a questionaire

    Pema Pera: I could send out a questionair to the email group, giving a 
    number of choices, to see what is prefered by the largest number of 
    Pema Pera: what should we list as options?
    Pema Pera: 1) one weekly meeting
    Pema Pera: 4) four as now
    Pema Pera: 2) four as now :)
    Pema Pera: 3) four but all on one day
    Pema Pera: other options?

    Discussion continues as Moon as a tiny teddy bear gets some attention from Wol.  As I look throught the chatlog and in retrospect to the meeting it seemed, as often happens that several strands were interweaving, the wish for physical comfort by some (ears rubbed) and intellectual involvement (ears stimulated by discussion) by others.But both expressions seemed to interplay

    Wol Euler rubs moon's ears
    doug Sosa: i sense that the guardian meeting is becoming the more 
    disciplined and the others lack focus.
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Wol Euler: 3) would pretty well guarantee that most people would 
    attend only one, I think
    Quilty Bookmite: If there is to be 4 on one day, it would be too much 
    to expect Pema to attend them all.
    Pema Pera: for sure!
    Pema Pera: but we don't have to decide here
    Pema Pera: I can send out an email for a vote
    Pema Pera: the point now is to think of all possible (reasonable) 
    Pema Pera: any other one beside those three?
    Quilty Bookmite: Sunday actually works quite well for me and may do 
    for others. After all, there are quite a few here.
    Geo Netizen feels a little jealous of Moon and pushes it down :)
    doug Sosa: , when is one question, but not independent of the what.
    Pema Pera: no other when suggestion?
    Pema Pera: just those three options?
    Geo Netizen nods
    Quilty Bookmite: In the end I don't mind as long as there is one 
    meeting in the 13:00 slot.
    Wol Euler offers to rub Geo's ears.

    Doug and Pema focus in on specific goals of the guardian sessions

    Pema Pera: As for the what, Doug, the main idea is to increase the 
    chance of guardians to meet each other
    Pema Pera: like here and now :-)
    Geo Netizen would purrr if he could
    doug Sosa: for the purpose of..? In the beginning it seemed like a 
    kind of cabinet meeting on governance of the whole, now the focus has 
    been lost for me.
    Quilty Bookmite: Is governance required?
    Pema Pera: we found that many of the administrative and organizational 
    stuff could be done by email
    Pema Pera: we shifted from format to content
    Geo Netizen thinks about Doug's comment
    doug Sosa: but then, what becomes the prupose of the regular non-
    guardian meetings?
    Pema Pera: so the purpose is the same as all PaB meetings
    Pema Pera: they're the same, Doug
    Pema Pera: the only difference is that at guardian meetings we have 
    more chance to meet more of us
    Pema Pera: whom we normally might not meet so often
    Pema Pera: yesterday for example

    Doug mentions his own experience recently in sessions

    doug Sosa: not in my experience. lately I'vebeens howing up to one or 
    two others, and no, or little, talk of PaB.
    Pema Pera: Riddle and Stevenaia met, first time perhaps :)
    Fael Illyar: The difference is in that if people can only attend one, 
    they're asked to attend one of these.
    Becka Finesmith: I'm new and I don't know what has come before, but I 
    think it's really nice to meet everyone I haven't met before :)
    Maxine Walden: but there was some thought that guardians might have 
    more access to each other at these meetings re PaB
    Quilty Bookmite: I think this is a good thing. Gives the meeting a 
    different focus.
    Umbriel Levenque would like to see the dialogue-format discussion in 
    one of the guardian meetings

    Geo then expresses what others may have been feeling in the just-preceding discussion

    Geo Netizen: Ahhh ... love the chaos
    Pema Pera: :)
    doug Sosa: :)
    Geo Netizen: It there an official goal or objective for the guardian 
    Maxine Walden: chaos vs cosmos?
    Quilty Bookmite: Chaos is what life is all about. :-)
    Pema Pera: no, Geo
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Fael Illyar: stir up the pot?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Geo Netizen: Then why the distinction
    Fael Illyar: that good for official goal?
    Pema Pera: to have the chance to meet more other guardians
    Pema Pera: if anyone goes to a random meeting
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: Then that would be the objective
    Pema Pera: they are likely to meet others in the same convenient time 
    Pema Pera: ah, yes, sorry, I thought I had mentioned that already, yes 
    Umbriel Levenque wonders whether to throw in another random point
    Fael Illyar: some people like to PaB daily, some people prefer 
    weekly... these are more geared towards the weekly crowd.
    Pema Pera: but no other objective, qua content, I meant
    Geo Netizen nods
    Fael Illyar: but also allow both crowds to mix

    Doug then asks about the purpose/goal of the non-guardian meetings and the discussion of responding to first-time visitors begins.

    doug Sosa: then what happens to the non-guardian meetings?
    Pema Pera: same as before, doug
    Pema Pera: yes, Umbriel?
    doug Sosa: but it seems there are less people and less focus
    Umbriel Levenque: ... newbies Pema
    Pema Pera: Sorry, Doug, but what do you propose to change?
    Umbriel Levenque: I found one of guardians IMing to prevent an ongoing 
    thread stopping for introductions etc
    Umbriel Levenque: Felt that was good...
    Pema Pera: ah, Umbriel, good point!
    doug Sosa: i think my preerene is a minority one.
    Wol Euler: yes, good idea.
    Pema Pera: we probably need to have more of a system to deel with 
    newbies, now that we get so many
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, I will try that in future. I am aware that 
    newbie intoductions upset the flow of conversation.
    Geo Netizen nods

    Doug persists in his questions, making it evident that perhaps this question is at the heart of his concerns expressed today.

    doug Sosa: asit is now, where do we expect to find good discussio on 
    the 9 sec experiments?
    Pema Pera: any session, Doug!
    Maxine Walden: right here should be good, doug
    Quilty Bookmite: I try to use the notecards but I think people are 
    reluctant to read them.
    Pema Pera: And if others don't talk about it, we ourselves can do so, 
    any time!
    Moon Fargis: sorry i have to leave i hope we will talk later
    doug Sosa: but me experience is that it is more rare than it used to be.
    Wol Euler: bye moon, take care
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Moon
    Moon Fargis: onigokko
    Geo Netizen: Bye Moon
    Umbriel Levenque: See you later Moon ^_^

    As Moon leaves he seems to trigger some wild music and dancing amidst some of our group. Perhaps another expression of chaos amidst the earnest inquiry also occurring.  the notion of balance then arises again

    Wol Euler laughs. Little devil!
    Fael Illyar: See you later Moon :)
    Quilty Bookmite: stop
    Umbriel Levenque: A parting gift ^^
    Faenik: why not?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Maxine Walden: agreed, doug, think we need ....chaos reins
    Tarmel Udimo: thank you that was good to get up and run around
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Maxine Walden: maybe Moon expressed just now that 'other' anti-focus 
    that often pervades the group from time to time
    Maxine Walden: Moon and others, just now
    Pema Pera: :)
    Faenik: could be
    Quilty Bookmite: Constant focus isn't good. It can get tiring trying 
    to talk about PaB all the time.
    Maxine Walden: agree, Quilty
    Pema Pera: Yes
    Pema Pera: that's why it is both play and Being
    Fael Illyar: yes, it gets rather monotonic if there are no surprises :)
    Maxine Walden: perhaps a question of balance
    Quilty Bookmite: I offer more than my fair share of play 
    unfortunately. :-)
    Pema Pera: and if anyone feels that the balance shifts too much to one 
    side, by all means, let them bring up the other -- in either direction!
    Becka Finesmith: I'm learning something new about myself at almost 
    every session I attend assisted by the 9 seconds so I think it all 
    works well
    Geo Netizen: Seems to always be plenty of surprises :)
    Maxine Walden: good to hear, Becka
    Pema Pera: I have enjoyed many rich sessions too, this last week for 
    Faenik: why not?
    Quilty Bookmite: Pema, wher
    Pema Pera: here :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Oops
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Pema Pera: ?

    Perhaps to offer more focus for this discussion Fael offers an observation:

    Fael Illyar: The meetings work best for people who have topics to 
    bring up :)
    Maxine Walden: that does bring focus, doesn't it Fael
    Pema Pera: speaking of which, anyone?

    Quilty offers another observation which may impact the ease for some regarding bringing up topics, that is Pema as our teacher.The topic is handled lightly, perhaps out of the spirit of the meeting but perhaps also out of anxiety about facing that possibility, of Pema as teacher, more directly

    Quilty Bookmite: Pema, whether you intend to or not, you attending a 
    session is like a schoolteacher entering a room. :-)
    Pema Pera: I hope not!
    Wol Euler: in a good way, of course.
    Pema Pera thinking of donning alts
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Umbriel Levenque: me laughs
    Geo Netizen: A little professorial but Ö :))
    Quilty Bookmite: Might be worth a try Pema. :-)
    Wol Euler looks in her bag for an apple
    Fael Illyar wonders how long Pema would manage to stay unidentified ...
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Geo Netizen laughs
    Quilty Bookmite: Flicks a rubber band at Wol with a ruler.
    Wol Euler: not a chance.
    Pema Pera: I can be an anti-Pema!

    Tarmel then mentions a favorite book of his:

    Tarmel Udimo: i am back to reading one my favorites - the evolving 
    mind by Robin Cooper - anyone know it?
    Pema Pera: I've done that with Wol !

    Admas joins us.And there is the topic of Tarmel's mentioned book, and whether Pema could be in this group in disguise for long.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
    Wol Euler: hello adams
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams
    Maxine Walden: don't know that book, Tarmel
    Maxine Walden: hi Adams
    Tarmel Udimo: he adams
    Geo Netizen: Hi Adams
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Everyone :)
    doug Sosa: i think that if pema was disguised, we would not cathch on 
    unles he was explicit about something only he could be. that means tat 
    the rest of ct quite a bit of "authority" in his direction.
    Fael Illyar: I unfortunately have to confess that I haven't read any 
    books about what we talk here in PaB.
    Wol Euler: I disagree, I think that his conversational style
    Wol Euler: and speed of speeh
    Wol Euler: are highly distinctive

    Tarmel continues with the topic of the book, buddhism as the next step in evolution, and others muse about Pema's authority in the group, whether it derives from our attributions or from his style and offerings

    Tarmel Udimo: the premis is that buddhism is the next evolution for 
    the human species
    Fael Illyar: Tarmel, that sounds rather interesting ...
    Geo Netizen: You canít hide the professor in him :)
    Wol Euler googles...
    Faenik loves wells!
    Maxine Walden: I agree that we project authority onto Pema, doug, 
    which is our doing. But also I believe Pema does wish to get certain 
    points across and that is distinctive
    Quilty Bookmite: I think Arthur C Clarke had similar thoughts. :-)
    Geo Netizen Clarke ?
    Fael Illyar: Science Fiction writer
    Quilty Bookmite: About Buddhism and evolution.
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... but I missed the connection
    Faenik: ????^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe for another session. :-)
    Fael Illyar: Well, science fiction can be deep thoughts in disguise ;)
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Fael Illyar: like any book :)
    Geo Netizen nods
    Tarmel Udimo: I agree
    Geo Netizen: And Clarke in particuliar !
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed.

    Perhaps to refocus the conversation Pema asks for questions relating to PaB

    Pema Pera: To echo Fael, would anyone like to bring up a PaB related 
    point, related to their experience in PaB like exploration

    And Doug responds:

    doug Sosa: if one is really in he 9 sec, how can we know when it is 
    Tarmel Udimo: it never really is - is it?
    Pema Pera: :)

    Independently I mention an observation from my practice which is taken up peripherally, as the flow of conversation is around Doug's wondering

    Maxine Walden: Adams was asking me earlier how/whether my dreams have been influenced by the 9 sec practice and I think they have
    Wol Euler smiles at Tarmel.
    Quilty Bookmite: If it is like meditation, you don't need to get lost 
    in it. In fact you can become more aware.
    Fael Illyar: hmmh, I've been back to not remembering my dreams for a 
    long time now ...
    doug Sosa: for me the 9 sec has become four breaths.
    Tarmel Udimo: it seems to keep bringing me back to the same old question
    Quilty Bookmite: Sounds like a good way of timing it.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it does
    Fael Illyar: but I have had a few dreams I do remember where I have 
    been very aware.

    Then Tarmel asks a question which Pema tries to address a few lines later.

    Tarmel Udimo: who's manifesting it all
    Quilty Bookmite: BRB
    doug Sosa: imagine dreaming and doing the nine sec in the dream!
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh that sounds godd
    Fael Illyar: especially the one I had when I had maccha tea an hour 
    before bed one day :)

    And in his answer one can see the teacher that Pema is to us, about being and Being

    Pema Pera: that's a key question, Tarmel!
    Tarmel Udimo: yes one that never goes away
    Pema Pera: the who that we think we are can be seen to be an overlay, 
    like a dress/mask
    Pema Pera: the more we see we have that, the more we can see what we 
    really are
    Tarmel Udimo: yes i think I understand that
    Faenik: indeed?
    Pema Pera: it's very direct, experiential
    Tarmel Udimo: but I can't help thinking that behind it all is an 
    energy/force/perception that must know
    Pema Pera: yes, that sounds right!
    Geo Netizen: Being
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Tarmel Udimo: and is this being creating or being
    Pema Pera: but by definition Being is beyond personal and impersonal 
    -- beyond our distinctions between "Gods" and "laws"

    And Doug and others wonder about Being knowing or being beyond knowing...

    doug Sosa: it doesn't occur to me that being knows. Knowledge of a 
    thing is not the thing. being has all the things, but no knowledge.
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhhhh that was what i was asking
    Geo Netizen: Why does Being have no ken

    And Pema's teaching comes through again...

    Pema Pera: well, we have to go slowly here
    Pema Pera: Being is not a thing
    Geo Netizen nods

    To my mind Pema's mention that Being has no context other than itself, which I read as 'there is nothing beyond Being, nothing that contextualizes it'
    answers the questions about Being knowing and also coheres the conversation

    Pema Pera: and has no context other than itself
    Geo Netizen: Do only things have ken
    Pema Pera: which makes all our usual logic not applicable
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Quilty Bookmite: Perhaps we are talking about the difference between 
    knowledge and wisdom.
    Pema Pera: or seeing
    Geo Netizen: Can being not have understanding of other?
    Pema Pera: not have but is
    Pema Pera: that's why we have to go so slowly . . .
    Pema Pera: we can't use words to get at it
    Wol Euler: that suggests that there is something outside of Being to 
    be known by it, geo?
    Pema Pera: but we can use words to help us to see it, glimpses at first
    Geo Netizen: but as a group .... what else do we have to explore the 
    Geo Netizen: ?
    Pema Pera: yes Wol !
    Pema Pera: ah, as a group we can explore
    Pema Pera: doing the 9-se
    Tarmel Udimo: so does being 'know' itself or does it only expereince 
    Pema Pera: sec
    Pema Pera: and we can talk about it here
    Pema Pera: yes and no Tarmel
    Pema Pera: both
    Geo Netizen thinks and nods at Wol
    Pema Pera: depending how you project Being into our restricted language
    Faenik: could be
    Quilty Bookmite: It's just a finger pointing at the moon.
    Tarmel Udimo: so there is potential for being to be creating
    Pema Pera: what we can do here is help each other to stop in order to 
    see . . . .
    Geo Netizen: It is true that the experiential cannot always be 
    Geo Netizen: Being is in the experience not in the description
    Pema Pera: talk -> trigger -> stop -> see -> talk about it more -> 
    trigger more -> stop more .....
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: procesz
    Fael Illyar: but is in the experience or description.
    Fael Illyar: of description

    Quilty then brings a 'hammer' into the conversation, as a way to 'speak' to action, I believe but there is great joviality for a bit.

    Quilty Bookmite: talk -> trigger -> stop -> hammertime
    Umbriel Levenque: me laughs
    Pema Pera: nailing it down, hey, Quilty?
    Geo Netizen: Don't we wish :)
    Quilty Bookmite: MC hammer. One of the great philosophers of our 
    age. :-)
    Geo Netizen laughs
    Wol Euler: showing your age there, Quilty old boy
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Wol Euler: (and mine too, I guess)
    Umbriel Levenque: Yes he left a great legacy about how a man should 
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm even older than that. :-)
    Wol Euler laughs
    Geo Netizen: 9
    Becka Finesmith: lol@Umbriel
    Quilty Bookmite: But this is often how my Buddhist practice has gone. 
    There are times to talk about it and times to just shut up and do it.
    Geo Netizen: Time to just Be
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: Turn turn turn Ö
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Quilty Bookmite: Even older. :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet there is always the other aspect of oneself that 
    needs to have the experience of knowing even if it is limted

    We than are joined by Theseus, a relative new-comer who is promptly offered information about PaB and the website by various of the group.

    Geo Netizen: Hi Theseus
    Geo Netizen: COme join us if you dare :)
    Theseus Skytower: hello
    Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
    Theseus Skytower: thank
    Pema Pera: Hi Theseus
    Becka Finesmith: I've got Theseus in IM -
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi.
    Becka Finesmith: letting him kno about us
    Tarmel Udimo: hello
    Maxine Walden: hi, Theseus
    Theseus Skytower: hello all
    Geo Netizen: This is not a group for the faint hearted Ö. but we donít 
    Wol Euler: thanks becka! the new system's first success!
    Faenik: could be
    Becka Finesmith gnash
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Geo Netizen: We record our sessions Theseus
    Wol Euler: hello theseus
    Theseus Skytower: ok cool
    Geo Netizen: Do you mind that they ar publishe don the internet
    Theseus Skytower: no, that's great
    Geo Netizen: and you donít have to worry if your fingers stumble :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Geo Netizen: When you get a chance
    Geo Netizen: you get get more info at
    Geo Netizen: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Geo Netizen: :)
    Theseus Skytower: it looks very interesting
    Theseus Skytower: I'm glad I randomly tped here!

    Geo gets back to the topic about knowing vs being:

    Geo Netizen: So back to the topic :
    Geo Netizen: "and yet there is always the other aspect of oneself that 
    needs to have the experience of knowing even if it is"
    Pema Pera: Yes, we need experience
    Geo Netizen: Being is in the experience
    Pema Pera: that's why we have the 9 sec
    Geo Netizen: not in ken
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: yet in the experience we gain
    Geo Netizen: knwoledge of the other
    Fael Illyar: There is, at once, both distinction and nondistinction.

    Wanting to take care of house-keeping duties I mention needing to leave soon, Wol offers to send the rest of the chatlog

    Maxine Walden: (I will need to leave in about 5 min and will happily 
    take the chatlog for the wiki, if someone else will send the rest of 
    the conversation to ost it later at the bottom of my chatlog on the 
    Becka Finesmith: the 9 seconds is the only time in my day I try NOT to 
    think of words, images or phrases
    Wol Euler: sure, maxine, will do
    Maxine Walden: thanks, Wol!
    Geo Netizen nods goodby to maxine
    Wol Euler: bye max, enjoy the evening
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Maxine - Really nice to meet you :)
    Umbriel Levenque: Enjoy the rest of your weekend Maxine
    Maxine Walden: thanks all, you as well. Sorry to have to leave right 
    in the middle of the conversation

    Wol sent the remainder of the chatlog which as I read it expresses an interesting phenomenon: Indeed I left about 4 minutes before I had to because everyone was saying goodbye and I felt impelled to go.  But the group then takes up the issue of command and obey, suggesting to me that it would be a good idea for me to take more control of when I have to leave the group.  Perhaps another sliver of the question of authority which resonated earlier in the group's discussion today, as there then was play but also perhaps some chaos as the group came to close.

    Maxine Walden: thanks all, you as well. Sorry to have to leave right in the middle of the conversation
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Maxine
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Maxine
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    Pema Pera: bye in four minutes, Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: oops?
    Pema Pera: She said five minutes?
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: 1 min ago :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Seems like we pushed her out. :-)
    Pema Pera: we all "goodbyed" her away . .
    Pema Pera: interesting groups process :-)
    Fael Illyar: peer pressure :)
    Geo Netizen chuckles at chaos
    Pema Pera: or lack of chaos :)
    Quilty Bookmite: More of a social experiment.
    Wol Euler: oh dear.
    Geo Netizen laughs
    Becka Finesmith: So if we told Wol to stay, will you be here til next time?
    Geo Netizen: self-organizing :)
    Wol Euler: of course!
    Tarmel Udimo: what's a great about sl is that everyone can speak at once - perhaps not meant to be but in RL this would be untenable
    Wol Euler: my typist might go away .....
    Becka Finesmith: Stay Wol :)
    Pema Pera: sit!
    Becka Finesmith: ooops - Now I've done it
    Wol Euler barks.
    Geo Netizen: /laught
    Pema Pera: good Wol
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Umbriel Levenque: heheheh
    Quilty Bookmite: Sit and we'll give you a chew. :-)
    Fael Illyar grins.
    Geo Netizen thinks about his fumbling fingers
    Wol Euler tries not to bite
    Pema Pera: anyone who can type "fumbling fingers" doesn't fumble . . .
    Quilty Bookmite: Would be a first. :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Geo Netizen thinks about bite ...
    Wol Euler bites her tongue
    Pema Pera: well, seems like we're approching the end of the hour . . ..
    Becka Finesmith: ouch
    Pema Pera: you are all invited to the Kira Cafe
    Geo Netizen laughs and covers his mouth
    Pema Pera: as usual, for Happy Hour
    Pema Pera: starting just about now
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks, but must go.
    Becka Finesmith: Drinks are on Pema
    Becka Finesmith: :p
    Geo Netizen: Yeah !!
    Adams Dubrovna: Thanks, I must go too
    Adams Dubrovna: Nice to see you all :)
    Pema Pera: if anyone doesn't have the landmark, let me know and I will tp
    Becka Finesmith: Thanks for coming Theseus
    Fael Illyar: See you later, anyone who's leaving :)
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Geo Netizen bows towards Adams
    Umbriel Levenque: Same here. Good day all
    Theseus Skytower: thank you
    Pema Pera: Theseus, would you like to visit the Kira Cafe?
    Geo Netizen: Great you could join us Theseus
    Tarmel Udimo: see you there
    Theseus Skytower: thanks for having me
    Wol Euler: everyone is welcome, theseus.
    Becka Finesmith: namaste
    Wol Euler: bye becka, take care
    Geo Netizen bows Namaste Becka
    Becka Finesmith: See ya Wol - I'll come back in half an hour to check on you :p
    Wol Euler: ha! I thought so! Pema had four listeners. Damn and blast.
    Wol Euler laughs
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Theseus Skytower: thank you all
    Wol Euler: I'll be at the cafe in a while, just introducing Tarmel to a great skin shop
    Becka Finesmith: You are welcome Thesues
    Becka Finesmith: Coming to the Cafe?
    Theseus Skytower: sure

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