2008.11.30 01:00 - The usual way of being normal

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    Vertigo Ethaniel: greetings all
    Moon Fargis: ^^/
    Fael Illyar: How is it going? I can't recall seeing you for a while :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea, ive been AWOL, hehe
    Vertigo Ethaniel: im good thanks. hows you?
    Fael Illyar is ok.
    Fael Illyar: Well, looks like I forgot breakfast :)
    Fael Illyar: afk for a moment.
    Moon Fargis is eating candy atm :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: im having dinner, hah
    Vertigo Ethaniel: steak is on the menu tonight
    Fael Illyar: different timezones :)
    Moon Fargis: hmm yummy
    Moon Fargis: candy steaks
    Fael Illyar: yes, I took one candy for emergency energy bonus :P
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hehe
    Fael Illyar: candy for breakfast, yay!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: new locations i see
    Vertigo Ethaniel: such as this
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and the library
    Moon Fargis: ahh yes
    Moon Fargis: you saw the library?:)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and the kira cafe, or is that fairly old?
    Fael Illyar: no, relatively new :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: ah yep
    Vertigo Ethaniel: just got the landmark, so wasnt sure
    Moon Fargis: well the library is still under construction :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: looks good anyway
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Vertigo Ethaniel: so whats going to happen to the old pab meeting place?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Moon Fargis: striptease club maybe ::)
    Moon Fargis: but i prefer a candystore
    Vertigo Ethaniel: :)
    Moon Fargis: well i dont knwo :)
    Fael Illyar: Moon's making the library :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: ah true
    Moon Fargis: well when i got time :) maybe i will continue today for another room
    Moon Fargis: 2 rooms left
    Fael Illyar: all the things we have to do :)
    Moon Fargis: ahyes right
    Moon Fargis: ohh yes i forgot something
    Fael Illyar blinks 'Forgot something?'
    Vertigo Ethaniel: haha
    Vertigo Ethaniel: nomnomnom
    Moon Fargis: *giggles*
    Moon Fargis: so hmmm what do we want to talk ?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Moon Fargis: pab?
    Moon Fargis: hi adams!
    Fael Illyar: Oh, interesting outfit, Adams :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hey there
    Moon Fargis: yes:) woodstock outfit or something :)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Adams Dubrovna: Good morning everyone :)
    Adams Dubrovna: My pajamas
    Adams Dubrovna: haha
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fael Illyar: Can't recall seeing you at many 1AM meetings :)
    Moon Fargis: brb
    Adams Dubrovna: No not too many. It is 4am here
    Fael Illyar: Still trouble sleeping ... it's getting to be a rather long term thing.
    Adams Dubrovna: I just woke up and nobody is here and my laptop was on so IO thought I'd check in
    Adams Dubrovna: so here I am
    Fael Illyar: Ah, welcome :)
    Adams Dubrovna: thanks
    Fael Illyar: Well, not much of a conversation going on here though.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: heres some food for thought
    Adams Dubrovna: I see. My thboughts aren't together to help start one
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i was discussing this with my girlfriend
    Vertigo Ethaniel: these days, in modern society, do we work to live, or live to work?
    Adams Dubrovna: ah yes
    Fael Illyar: tends to depend on the person but for me it's more of a work to live kind of thing.
    Adams Dubrovna: Work is immportant but it is not the most important
    Adams Dubrovna: Our jobs can be satisfiying and add to our practice
    Fael Illyar: but there are many people who do live to work
    Fael Illyar: and depending on how you define work that could apply to more too :P
    Vertigo Ethaniel: for so many people, i think they believe they are working to live, yet are bound to their jobs, or ways of making their way
    Moon Fargis: re
    Faenik loves wells!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: that is true, i mostly define work as something you spend time doing for money
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Vertigo Ethaniel: although, tending to your garden could be called work
    Moon Fargis: depends on the work ofcourse but i guess you are right
    Fael Illyar: does it cease to be work if you do it because you also want to do it, money being just a bonus?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: good question
    Adams Dubrovna: Life is boring if all a job does is bring in money
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Adams Dubrovna: It can become fragmented (i.e.life)
    Adams Dubrovna: The good part of the day and the bad part of the day
    Moon Fargis: reminds me on the social way of life
    Moon Fargis: the way the society forces you mostly to life
    Adams Dubrovna: Stopping very 15 minutes has helped put my job in perspective for me
    Vertigo Ethaniel: personally, i tend to dislike the traditional working day, even though i am a slave to it. i would much rather be tending my farm.. assuming i had one (working on it)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes moon, i get funny looks from people when i mention how i want to drop out of the working day
    Fael Illyar: Yes, working day concept is something I've been disregarding for some reason for quite a long time.
    Faenik: could be
    Vertigo Ethaniel: how so?
    Fael Illyar: it never quite fit in my world, even with having gone to school every day for years.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, i understand that
    Moon Fargis nods
    Adams Dubrovna: Working a fram is sort of working with the rhythms of the world and in the same way we can work withing the rhythms of society. Maybe harmony is the key
    Adams Dubrovna: fram - farm
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats a good point
    Fael Illyar: I've somehow ended up doing just enough work to live.
    Moon Fargis: its the way your days changes.. you stand up early go to work, come back from work.. clean up a bit.. set infront of the computer or tv and sleep
    Moon Fargis: then you stand up again
    Fael Illyar: even if I'm at times a bit worried I might end up with a bit less
    Moon Fargis: maybe here and there a little hobby
    Vertigo Ethaniel: however, i dont think i can fit in with society at large
    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats just me tho
    Fael Illyar: what does fitting in mean?
    Adams Dubrovna: ah
    Adams Dubrovna: anpther interesting question
    Moon Fargis: so thats why i prefer going into a zen monastery.. stand up erly and switch between body ans mind work, do something for the others without earning money
    Vertigo Ethaniel: honestly, i think id love to stay in a monestary for a few years
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: the only thing i wouldnt enjoy as much is the organised religion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i am my own, with my own beliefs
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and im very stubborn
    Fael Illyar is rather stubborn there too.
    Moon Fargis: depends on the monastery i would say and the path of religion they follow
    Adams Dubrovna: Fael, I think I meant going with the flow, accepting the rhythms of the modern working world
    Adams Dubrovna: yes to the organized religion issue
    Fael Illyar: but there are side rhythms that can accommodate you.
    Adams Dubrovna: ys
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Fael Illyar: just less mainstream
    Fael Illyar: less visible
    Adams Dubrovna: For example one doesn';t have to commute
    Fael Illyar: 9-5 is not the only work/freetime division
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Vertigo Ethaniel: true, i myself work 10-5 (lol, so different...)
    Moon Fargis: 7:30 - 6
    Adams Dubrovna: I work 8:30 - 4:30 haha
    Vertigo Ethaniel: but i used to work nights in a restaurant... hated it
    Vertigo Ethaniel: but that might have just been the work
    Adams Dubrovna: I wouldn;t like to work at night
    Fael Illyar: what you've mentioned are all basically the same, just the time and length shifted a bit
    Vertigo Ethaniel: exactly yes, heh
    Adams Dubrovna: You used the word division Fael, maybe a part of what societ expects
    Fael Illyar: yes, why is there a need for division?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: but then again, those times are in natural rhythm with sleep patterns
    Adams Dubrovna: It is society;s need to make things flow
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and the transit of the sun
    Adams Dubrovna: we can organize differently in some cases...yours may be a good example
    Adams Dubrovna: I must be there during those times so people can find me
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I tend to work when I feel like it :)
    Fael Illyar: (or have been putting it off for too long)
    Adams Dubrovna: But me being there also is expected by people at home
    Adams Dubrovna: haha
    Adams Dubrovna: They have to do their thing and I would be in the way
    Fael Illyar: Well, that's a question of adapting :)
    Adams Dubrovna: The entire 20c society is one of adapting I think
    Moon Fargis: reminds me of: S.A.A.R.T.
    Adams Dubrovna: whoops 21st century
    Fael Illyar: what's that?
    Fael Illyar: oh yes, adapting is becoming the most important skill in 21st century quite fast
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, im looking forward to the changes that should be happening soon... all natural of course
    Moon Fargis: a term one invented who then goes kamikatze here in a shool and shooten several people to death until he shot himself
    Moon Fargis: the english version would be: S.A.W.R.D.
    Moon Fargis: Shool, Aprientiship, Work, Retirement, Death
    Fael Illyar: Moon, yes, those would be examples of people who refused to learn to adapt.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: which is a direct result, and symptom, of something being very wrong with our lives
    Vertigo Ethaniel: in my opinion
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, tragically not adapting
    Faenik: ah :)
    Adams Dubrovna: We can never know how many people could not adapt to living on a farm. They probably did not survive
    Fael Illyar: That sounds likely, yes
    Vertigo Ethaniel: we are on a farm... just not what you think a farm is :)
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Fael Illyar: but that sort of adapting is a bit different.
    Adams Dubrovna: I like to think we have it much easier
    Vertigo Ethaniel: probably sounds a bit conspiracy theorist of me, but im a skeptic and a pessimist when it comes to other people
    Fael Illyar: oh yes, failure to adapt doesn't come with very fast death
    Fael Illyar: that's why we have so many people not adapting.
    Moon Fargis: hmm but its intresting
    Adams Dubrovna: Our westgern religions were born in agriculture
    Adams Dubrovna: They speak to the rhythms of nature
    Adams Dubrovna: In the 21st century world we are distant from those
    Fael Illyar: that's not to say if it's because the death being out of the picture makes people adapt less or if it just removes the non adapting ones.
    Adams Dubrovna: and so the spiritual life becomes harder to sustain
    Moon Fargis: to see how then politicans search on wrong sides of reasons why he did that.. shooted people and killed himself... they completley ignored the social aspect ..no they just started looking what he did in his sparetime
    Moon Fargis: and this was playing computergames like counterstrike
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Moon
    Moon Fargis: then the term "Killergames" where invented
    Moon Fargis: and they said he did this becasue he played such games
    Adams Dubrovna: The games are more a symptom of the alientaion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: of course, its the easiest scapegoat
    Moon Fargis: he even wrote a goodbye letter saying why he did this and uploaded it into the net
    Moon Fargis: a few days before
    Fael Illyar: Of course, politicians have to publicize things people want to hear ... or more like not publicize things people don't want to hear ... so that kind of shapes what they say.
    Moon Fargis: the letter was then deleted
    Adams Dubrovna: A response to fear
    Moon Fargis: but thanks to internet nothing can be deleted so easyly
    Faenik: why not?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, the internet gives me more hope for humanity and the planet earth as a whole than any other development in history
    Vertigo Ethaniel: its a marvellous tool, and we must protect it at all costs
    Vertigo Ethaniel: im a big advocate of net neutrality
    Fael Illyar: Yes, free flow of information needs to be protected.
    Moon Fargis: but as you see... humans tend to think simple and often ignorant
    Moon Fargis: like SL
    Moon Fargis: its still wholeworld misleaded to child pron becasue there was those things in SL and all over the news in world
    Fael Illyar: yes, we also have a tendency to not want to hear things we don't like, even if it's very important we hear them.
    Moon Fargis: its past nearly 2 years and still people remember this
    Vertigo Ethaniel: scandal is more important than fact
    Vertigo Ethaniel: evidently
    Vertigo Ethaniel: something i mentioned at the supermarket earlier tonight, looking at the womens magazines
    Fael Illyar: So we latch on to scapegoats that are mostly imaginary, like childporn and blame them for everything.
    Adams Dubrovna: Fear is a powerful motivator
    Vertigo Ethaniel: that it is
    Vertigo Ethaniel: anyhow, interesting discussion, but i must go.. work tomorrow (groan)
    Moon Fargis: eek
    Moon Fargis: work
    Adams Dubrovna: Good to see you Vertigo
    Moon Fargis: poor vertigo
    Vertigo Ethaniel: you too adam
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i should be back more often
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that's the way it goes, unfortunately.
    Fael Illyar: Hope to see you again soon Vertigo :)
    Adams Dubrovna: bye
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Crusty :)
    Moon Fargis: hi crusty
    Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste
    Vertigo Ethaniel: good night
    Adams Dubrovna is ready forf more sleep now. Interesting discussion
    Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Adams :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Thank you Moon adn fael :)
    Moon Fargis: adams: ahh it was then boring enought to make you sleepy again :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi and bye Crusty
    Adams Dubrovna: Haha Moon
    Crusty Goldshark: hibye
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Adams Dubrovna: bye
    Fael Illyar waves
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Adams Dubrovna" from list.
    Moon Fargis: well crusty you seem a bit too late this time :)
    Crusty Goldshark: was I late?
    Moon Fargis: hehe yes one our too late now :)
    Fael Illyar: yes, around an hour late :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I thought I was on time everyone else was early
    Fael Illyar: 1,7,1,7 SLT
    Fael Illyar: it's 2AM SLT now
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes indeed - but who is interested in time keeping?
    Moon Fargis: well i got alot of time still
    Fael Illyar: Well, not really :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Oh good perhaps you can tell us about Zen?
    Fael Illyar: but the meetings mostly last an hour :)
    Fael Illyar: of course exceptions are there too :)
    Moon Fargis: sure what do you want to know ?
    Crusty Goldshark: Nothing?
    Fael Illyar: these last until people no longer want to talk :)
    Moon Fargis: hi kir
    Fael Illyar: propeller hat :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Thanks Fael _ it is nice hear - and I do try to get here o time
    Fael Illyar: Hello Kirkra :)
    Crusty Goldshark: here hear
    Crusty Goldshark: Well Moon I suppose the question about Zen is why answer questions?
    Moon Fargis: becasue you always answer questions even if you dont answer
    Fael Illyar: Yes, "no answer" is an answer too :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Only questions no one has aked?
    Fael Illyar: although, only if the questioner knows it was heard :)
    Moon Fargis: when no question no answer ;)
    Crusty Goldshark: Well I suppose answers and questions are much the same - idle chat
    Crusty Goldshark: my fav kind :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: idle chat but it's sometimes quite nice ones :)
    Crusty Goldshark: What is Faenik about?
    Fael Illyar: look on my shoulder :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Wellall chat is nice ;)
    Moon Fargis: sure is there something you want to chat about ?:)
    Fael Illyar: It's interesting we have this delusion that what we say actually makes a difference ;)
    Moon Fargis: depends on what you dont say:)
    Crusty Goldshark: everything is different
    Fael Illyar: (that's not to say no difference is made, just that it's not the saying that does it)
    Crusty Goldshark: that makes sense
    Crusty Goldshark: I suppose with awareness we are able to make a difference?
    Moon Fargis: and then ?:)
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Kirkra Caerndow" from list.
    Crusty Goldshark: what then?
    Moon Fargis: exactly
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: what does ^^ mean?
    Moon Fargis: ah its a smiley
    Moon Fargis: ^_^
    Fael Illyar: tries to represent a smiling face :)
    Fael Illyar: like this one :)
    Moon Fargis: (^_^)
    Crusty Goldshark: never come across that ;)
    Crusty Goldshark: ^^
    Moon Fargis: came fron japan to us :)
    Fael Illyar: yep, originally Japanese smiley :)
    Fael Illyar: kind of resembles how smiling is portrayed in manga or anime
    Moon Fargis: ^.^
    Crusty Goldshark: does talk walk like skype with a mic?
    Moon Fargis: yep you can also speak with a micro in SL
    Moon Fargis: for that you have the voicechat option enabled in the preferences
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: Well, doesn't work too well for me :)
    Crusty Goldshark: OK - will try that - BRB
    Fael Illyar: I tend to have problems even hearing others with it
    Moon Fargis: well
    Moon Fargis: yes thats the problem
    Moon Fargis: not everyone got it enabled so not everyone will hear you
    Fael Illyar: I participated a voice session with RL monk speaking through voice yesterday and I kept having to turn voice off and back on to keep listening
    Moon Fargis: uh
    Fael Illyar: somehow I hear people for a few minutes and the nothing.
    Moon Fargis: firewall ?
    Fael Illyar: it somehow loses everyone else
    Fael Illyar: didn't work at all until I looked at SL voice FAQ and opened the listed ports in the firewall
    Moon Fargis: ahh wich are they?
    Fael Illyar: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Voic..._a_firewall.3F
    Moon Fargis: ah thanks
    Moon Fargis: i am called now
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later :)
    Moon Fargis: see you later ^^/

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