2009.05.05 13:00 - The Purpose of Life

so,what are we here for?

Mickorod Renard: do you think we all originated from one source,maybe africa?
Rish Bleriot: thast what the news says
Vendy Walpole: or from universe?
Mickorod Renard: well, I guess you cant go wwrong with sayin we are from the same universe

Vendy Walpole: what if we are controled by beings from universe and invented for their experiments?
aurel Miles: Hello Fefonz
Vendy Walpole: just one of possibilites...
Mickorod Renard: well, anything is posible
Fefonz Quan: which universe? (sorry)
Vendy Walpole: thera are many others..
Mickorod Renard: I sometimes wonder what our purpose is,,like perhaps for collecting raw information
Vendy Walpole: this with galaxies, milky way etc...:)
Vendy Walpole: good question...I wonder too Mick
Fefonz Quan: ah, thia univers.
Fefonz Quan: this*
Mickorod Renard: maybe we are all connected to a central collection point of information gathering
Vendy Walpole: sort of server, hug one...grins
Mickorod Renard: for some higher purpose
Vendy Walpole: which we are not avbe to understand even
Vendy Walpole: able
Mickorod Renard: grin
Fefonz Quan: some Scifi writers were entertaining this ideas
Scathach Rhiadra: evidence anyone?
aurel Miles looks around for a couple of white mice...
Fefonz Quan: or a good joke :)
aurel Miles giggles to herself
aurel Miles: 42
Mickorod Renard: yea
Fefonz Quan: yep

morphogenetic fields ?

Rish Bleriot: are u familiar with the concept of morphogenetic fields ... propounded by Rupert Sheldrake ?
Mickorod Renard: or maybe we are a secret weopon sent to distroy all life here,,we are doing a good job
aurel Miles: i'm not
aurel Miles: sounds like science
Vendy Walpole: neither I
aurel Miles: i think we are just part of the big picture
Mickorod Renard: no,,sounds interesting
aurel Miles: but we like to give ourselves airs
Fefonz Quan: Rish, elaboratin?
Mickorod Renard: fill us in Rish
Fefonz Quan: +o
Rish Bleriot: its the same theory ... that there is a central "server" absorbing info thru satellite terminals .... (us)
Rish Bleriot: Sheldrake is a british scientist who did some experiments which even "prove" the existence of this network
Fefonz Quan: as information sensors, we produce a huge amount of internal noise :)
Rish Bleriot: its a lot to type .... but he put it all in a book called "the presence of the past"
Vendy Walpole: prove Rish?
Mickorod Renard: wow
Rish Bleriot: yep prove
Mickorod Renard: another book to read
aurel Miles: it's called God, I think.
Rish Bleriot: he observed that once smthn has been learnt by a group of ppl ... it becomes easier for a larger group to learn it
Fefonz Quan: well Rish we really like short summaries (fefonz thinks of the 10 books he is in the middle of)
Rish Bleriot: so he devised some experiments to prove this point
Vendy Walpole: like...example?
Vendy Walpole: with the group
Fefonz Quan: (since there are more teachers around?)
aurel Miles: the theory of critical mass
Rish Bleriot: and he beleives its a side -effect of leakage of knowledge from our "morphogenetic fields" which store all our experiences
aurel Miles: proved with monkeys in japan

aurel Miles: about 20 years ago
aurel Miles: i remember

aurel Miles: also - references Jung's theory of the collective unconscious
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, the monkeys on an island, learnt to use tools, then monkeys on mainland could use them too?
aurel Miles: how, except semantically, is this different from the work that has gone before it?

Rish Bleriot: smthn like that scath
Mickorod Renard: cool
Mickorod Renard: just checked,,that book is £15 second hand on amazon
Fefonz Quan: and there is no communication that transfers that information?
Mickorod Renard: will have to save up

Rish Bleriot: word of caution mick .... its like reading atlas shrugged ...only 10 times more boring
aurel Miles: it's an interesting phenomenon and it has been proven many ways - many times
Scathach Rhiadra: :))
aurel Miles: i'm not sure that means we are a comptuer network
Rish Bleriot: no
Mickorod Renard: lol,,maybe I will give it a miss
aurel Miles: i'm sure we are connected
Rish Bleriot: better than a simple network :)
Scathach Rhiadra: didn't think anthing could be more boring than atlas Shrugged:)
Fefonz Quan: So the ability to write non-boring stuff didn't pass the critical point :)
Mickorod Renard: I think we are connected too,,but thats just my thoughts
Vendy Walpole: I just got an idea...what if we are moved by thoughts as Honda managed to move ASIMO?
arabella Ella: which book are you talking about?
Vendy Walpole: the humanoid robot
Rish Bleriot: of course we are Vendy ....
Vendy Walpole: :)
Rish Bleriot: the govt thinks for us :))

Vendy Walpole: others thought
aurel Miles: i have a copy of the journalist's legal guide if you're looking for something dull...
arabella Ella: ok ty
Fefonz Quan: how do you think you move your hand vendy?
Vendy Walpole: you do not get my point
sophia Placebo: hi alone
Vendy Walpole: know about Asimo?
Vendy Walpole: he is moved by other's thought
Fefonz Quan: only the asimo.v version :)
Vendy Walpole: as we can be by some higher intelligence

Mickorod Renard: any more ide's on connectedness?
Fefonz Quan: (only i can't see Gen?)
Fefonz Quan: ok, clouding up...

Vendy Walpole: of course, we are all just a part of oneness whateve rit can be called

The phenomenon with the flying locus

Fefonz Quan: There is some phenomenon with the flying locus i think
Mickorod Renard: maybe of being too
Fefonz Quan: where one locus (is it the right word?) has two modes of operation, alone and in the group
Mickorod Renard: mm?
Mickorod Renard: carry on Fef
Vendy Walpole: can you explain it ?
Fefonz Quan: dict. delay...
Fefonz Quan: locust is teh right word.
Mickorod Renard: ok,,the creepy flying things
aurel Miles: the locust has a locus
aurel Miles: ;)
Fefonz Quan: at least i heard from one scientist, that by switching something on the back of it's leg, a single locust can go to the 'group mode', so teh whole group when it flies seems like one correlated big organism
aurel Miles: (he does, though)
Rish Bleriot: i think we lost our locus standii ...
Mickorod Renard: wow
Rish Bleriot: but why just locusts fef ? the same wld apply to pigeons ...geese ...
Fefonz Quan: and you can see a group of thousand of locusts turn together
Rish Bleriot: herd mentality ...
Rish Bleriot: it even applies to football fans
aurel Miles: starlings
aurel Miles: they even poop together
Mickorod Renard: lemmings
Fefonz Quan: geese, as i know (holgerson wise), fly in a big V, each one follow the one in front of him, this is different
Rish Bleriot: lol
aurel Miles: i have had to clean up my car after it
aurel Miles: starlings are really fond of blackberries - did you know that?
Rish Bleriot: what abt football fans ? one goes crazy .... they all go crazy ...
aurel Miles: geese flock in vs
Fefonz Quan: aurel, that is the influence of teh ether they are all surrounded by :)
aurel Miles: but starlings fly in clouds
Scathach Rhiadra: mob mentality
aurel Miles: and so do pigeons
Rish Bleriot: fish ...
Mickorod Renard: and moths
aurel Miles: big wheeling, synchronized clouds
Mickorod Renard: bats
arabella Ella: collective intelligence perhaps?
aurel Miles: searching for blackberies and a pale colored car to poop on...
Mickorod Renard: that was what we were thinking Ara
Mickorod Renard: whether we are connected to a central ,,,thing
arabella Ella nods
Fefonz Quan: at least what i heard about the locust, is that you can see his mind 'switch' to a total different mode of action when in the group.
aurel Miles: jung says humans share it
Rish Bleriot: jung went to football matches im sure
aurel Miles: big tottspurs fan.
aurel Miles: hotspurs
aurel Miles: no doubt.
arabella Ella: collective intelligence is attributed to humans when they follow the crowd to adopt for example new technology as a crowd after the early adopter stage and after the technology has gone beyone the tipping point
Fefonz Quan: this reminds me also about the explanation of why we sometimes 'jump' to catch teh bed just after falling asleep
Mickorod Renard: so,,I wonder why,,if we are the same?
Scathach Rhiadra: what about groups who seem to share or feed off each others religious, um, escasty
Fefonz Quan: In india they say Mick: 'same same but different'
Rish Bleriot: u wonder mick ? but if u did a DNA analyses .... theres a fleetingly small difeerence between ppl ....
Rish Bleriot: even between species
Mickorod Renard: yes,,I read that
Mickorod Renard: I have the science journal
Mickorod Renard: incredible
Mickorod Renard: one would think,,from what we discussed,,that we are programable?
Fefonz Quan: but difference is not only genes. I can have _exactly_ the same PC like you Rish, but they have very different softwares and memory on them
Rish Bleriot: yeah but the tech limitations of both wld be the same
Fefonz Quan: sure we are mick. didn't you learn to read at school?

Contagion, Virus, Communication or Survival or all

arabella Ella: i think there must be some sort of contagion going on amongst human brains when something like a new technology or mobile phones are adopted on a massive scale ... or religions ... or popular tunes
Mickorod Renard: well,,only just
Mickorod Renard: how u mean Ara?
aurel Miles: the zeitgeist, you mean?
arabella Ella: more to do with diffusion of innovation ... oh ... shhh
aurel Miles: you know - something that is fairly well known in communications theory etc etc
aurel Miles: might be helpful here
aurel Miles: you pick up a lot more than you realize you do
aurel Miles: through overhearing stuff
aurel Miles: seeing ads
Mickorod Renard: yes?
aurel Miles: being exposed to cultural references
aurel Miles: so by the time even the slowest of us
aurel Miles: picks up a co puter
Mickorod Renard: subliminal sugestion?
aurel Miles: for example
Fefonz Quan: co puter?
aurel Miles: we already have a good idea of what to expect fro it
aurel Miles: not anything sinister like that
arabella Ella: yes and diffusion of innovation is used a lot for marketing
aurel Miles: just the fact of being in the flow of life
aurel Miles: it is not in the least
arabella Ella: yes
aurel Miles: mysterious
aurel Miles: it would be weird if we didn't
arabella Ella: it is not mysterious at all IMHO
arabella Ella: it is part of what they call take up of new technology
arabella Ella: or new products
Mickorod Renard: but is it a freak of nature,,or by creation???
arabella Ella: or services
arabella Ella: no it is a natural reaction for humans mick
aurel Miles: soooo
aurel Miles: what's the point?
Mickorod Renard: exactly
arabella Ella: the point is ... contagion
Mickorod Renard: now we are back to question one
arabella Ella: influence from human brain to human brain
aurel Miles: that's not a point
aurel Miles: it's a condition
arabella Ella: up to u what u wish to call it
arabella Ella: for me a point is
aurel Miles: no
arabella Ella: this
arabella Ella: .
Mickorod Renard: grin
aurel Miles: i'm not being judgemental
aurel Miles: i am being factual
arabella Ella: of course
aurel Miles: saying the point is contagion
aurel Miles: doesn't tell me anythiong
aurel Miles: abuot what you are trying to say
aurel Miles: it's like sticking your tongue out
aurel Miles: so please elaborate
arabella Ella: i was reacting to what Fefonz said about locusts and said it also applies to humans in some contexts
arabella Ella: plain and simple
Mickorod Renard: so,,,are we thinking that our ability to pick up information is like a virus,,or because we have a cause to do so?
Vendy Walpole: must be a cuse, I believe
Fefonz Quan: well isn't it primarily a tool for survival Mick?
arabella Ella: i think there comes a stage when we do pick up info like a virus
Mickorod Renard: maybe a curse
arabella Ella agrees with Fefonz it is part of our survival kit
Mickorod Renard: but we seem to be so sponge like it goes beyond the need for survival
Fefonz Quan: our inability to sort out the irrelevant information, and our thinking that more is always better, i tend to agree is a kind of desease
Mickorod Renard: more like something we were disigned to do,,collect information
Fefonz Quan: maybe like with sugars, we were evolutionary planned for very different environment, and applied in our comfort abundant life this is the effect

Intelligent design?  mmmm need to ask someone intelligent about that, not me

aurel Miles: do you believe in intelligent design, then Mick?
Mickorod Renard: I think I do
aurel Miles: that's a radical thought
Fefonz Quan nods
aurel Miles: popular in the bible belt
Mickorod Renard: well,,I bet its 50/50 in world thought
arabella Ella: it is definitely one possibility
Fefonz Quan: well 50% never read a book, at least
Fefonz Quan: (just saying 50/50 is meaningless in that context)
genesis Zhangsun: so you believe god fills in the holes where science cannot?
Mickorod Renard: grin,,Fef, is that the side u think I belong to?
genesis Zhangsun: this is my understanding of intelligent design
aurel Miles: strikes me as interesting how we can get so close to the edge of fundementalism - can we be there without losing the ability to discern things sicentifically?
Fefonz Quan: surely not Mick. (though if you'll continue with that kind of conclution deduction... ;-))
Mickorod Renard: Well, I am not sure i have defined God yet in my own head
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Mickorod Renard: maybe he is a crazy scientist
genesis Zhangsun: I think intelligent design sees god as a sort of master architect
Vendy Walpole: has anyone defined God?
aurel Miles: well - baptists in the u.s. see it as literalism
Mickorod Renard: maybe in thier own heads
aurel Miles: and defend it as such
aurel Miles: legally
Fefonz Quan agrees with Gen
aurel Miles: in opposition to the theory of evolution
aurel Miles: and my question is - can we play on the edge of that belief without choosing up sides?
arabella Ella: quite a few religions today have no objection to evolution
aurel Miles: i am aware
Mickorod Renard: well,,what better wy to design something,,one that evolves when nesesary
aurel Miles: i am talking about intelligent design
arabella Ella: science does not explain everything
arabella Ella: and another alternative would be a soup of chaos
Mickorod Renard: I am sure , sensibly, that both sides can work together
genesis Zhangsun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
aurel Miles: maybe they can but historicall they don't - i draw your attention to the battles currently being waged in the schools of the central united states - where parents who believe in intelligent design are removing their children from sicence class.
genesis Zhangsun: I suggest people read this before signing on to intelligent design :)
aurel Miles: thanks gen
genesis Zhangsun: yes the problem aurel
Mickorod Renard: ok cool,,thanks
aurel Miles: that's the point i am trying to make
genesis Zhangsun: is that intelligent design proponents
genesis Zhangsun: are claiming that their theory
genesis Zhangsun: is on par with science
Mickorod Renard: but that is extremism,,in my opinion
genesis Zhangsun: and should be taught in schools
genesis Zhangsun: but of course no one can prove intelligent design
arabella Ella: exactly ... fundamentalism of whatever sort is always wrong and bigoted
genesis Zhangsun: therefore it cannot be "scientific" as proponents claim
genesis Zhangsun: as a belief system, why not
genesis Zhangsun: as good of an explanation as any I suppose
arabella Ella: i dont think everyone who believes in intelligent design would take such a stance genesis and auriel
genesis Zhangsun: though seems quite simplistic to me
Mickorod Renard: well, i had basic religious study at school,,nd it never determined which way one chose to follow,,,cience or design
genesis Zhangsun: uh in fact arabella that is the whole history behind intelligent design it was stimulated out of a court case
arabella Ella: i disagree gen
arabella Ella: it may be so in some parts of the USA
arabella Ella: but most european christians think otherwise
genesis Zhangsun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps you are talking about something else arabella
Mickorod Renard: In europe,,well the Uk,,we dont take anything serious
arabella Ella: Gen i cannot open any other browsers while on SL but ...
arabella Ella: dont forget wikipedia is not scientific information either
arabella Ella: and it is user generated content ... users may have their own agendas
aurel Miles: maybe we can take this opportunity to think about communication
genesis Zhangsun: uh sure
Mickorod Renard: how u mean Aurel?
aurel Miles: we don't seem to have the basis for meaningful discussion on this issue
genesis Zhangsun: but really I think most people would agree that "intelligent design" was something created by what is called the Discovery Institute in 1994
genesis Zhangsun: it isn't an old phenomenon
genesis Zhangsun: sorry got to go
Mickorod Renard: thats true Aurel,,I think we have diversified

Mickorod Renard: well,,that was a quick hour
aurel Miles: yes - i should be off as well
aurel Miles: dinner won't cook itself...

Phew, that was a lively meeting

Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to go now Rish
Rish Bleriot: bye Mick ...
Rish Bleriot: was nice talking to u
Mickorod Renard: thanks for commin tonite
Mickorod Renard: yea,,likewise