Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session, filling in for the unavoidably detained Mr. Laville.
Wol Euler: hello kenji
kenji Pookes: Hi
Wol Euler: three weeks old :) How are you finding SL?
kenji Pookes: Interesting.
Wol Euler: personally interesting or just anthropologically?
kenji Pookes: IS there a difference?
Wol Euler: maybe :)
Wol Euler: one can be professionally interested in things that one would not spend private time on
kenji Pookes: What's it like being a dog?
Wol Euler grins. Doglike.
Wol Euler: Hard to say, what's it like being human?
kenji Pookes: Ruff.
/me sighs. I missed this joke at the time. Sorry, Kenji.
Wol Euler: this is what I know, to me it's normal
Wol Euler: like children think the family they grew up in is normal and typical
Wol Euler: only later they find out that not all parents are alcoholics, or opera freaks, or whatever
kenji Pookes: Are you actually connected to the university of Gottengen?
Wol Euler: hello scath, mick
Wol Euler: no, not at all :)
kenji Pookes: Oh, too bad. I've been there--nice place.
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol, kenji:)
kenji Pookes: hi
Wol Euler: it's a bit of an in-joke, a reminder taht things in SL are not always what they seem
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Wol Scath Ken
kenji Pookes: How is that different from RL?
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hi Fael
Wol Euler: kenji, I have to give you a bit of an intro here. This is a meeting of a meditation and discussion group called Play as Being. Have you been here before?
kenji Pookes: yes, I have
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Scath, Wol, Mick, Kenji :)
Wol Euler: ok, so you have the notecard, and know that we record and publish the sessions
kenji Pookes: hi
kenji Pookes: yes
Wol Euler smiles. Good.
Wol Euler: hello fael, sorry
Scribery.
Wol Euler: Solobill isn't here tonight, he asked me to take the log and guide the session.
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure but I may be doing his scribing next month
Mickorod Renard: at least some of it
Wol Euler: have you signed up to take over?
Mickorod Renard: no,,but I think eliza is/was doing it
Mickorod Renard: and I am giving her a break
Wol Euler: aah
Mickorod Renard: providing thats ok,,,he he
Wol Euler smiles
Mickorod Renard: Pema did ask me to participate in scribe work
Mickorod Renard: and I thought it would be a good way to start
Wol Euler: if it doesn't work out, you can have my slot.
Wol Euler: or even if it does .... :
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Mickorod Renard: eeeek
Scathach Rhiadra: starting last month?
Wol Euler: :-PPPPPPPPP
Scathach Rhiadra: =^.^=
Scathach Rhiadra: =^.^=
Wol Euler: no, I will do that one before I go. I shall leave with a clean slate
Mickorod Renard: I need to read a few,,and get into the idea of it all
Mickorod Renard: what are your interests ken?
kenji Pookes: Me? At the moment trying to figure out the Japanese name for Fael. I can't see the second character very well, but the word looks like Kousou, which is red algae, which I don't think is right. Font is too small for me to see well.
Wol Euler chuckles
kenji Pookes: My eyes are not too good.
Fael Illyar smiles 'It's not Japanese for my SL name.'
Wol Euler apologises for her levity.
kenji Pookes: Well, it's Japanese for something and it is a name.
Fael Illyar: yes
Fael Illyar: Hi Fefonz :)
kenji Pookes: How d you read it?
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Fef
Wol Euler: hello fefonz
Fael Illyar: guren-chan
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Heya everybody :)
kenji Pookes: I see.
Fael Illyar: it's red lotus, the meaning.
kenji Pookes: Very nice name--a crimson lotus flower.
As though answering a call, Sophia arrives wearing a marvellous flowery outfit.
Fael Illyar: Hi Sophia :)
Wol Euler: hello sophia
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Sophia
kenji Pookes: hi
Fefonz Quan: hi Sophia
Mickorod Renard: Hi Sophia
Wol Euler: wow, what a great av
Wol Euler: Spring is here.
Fael Illyar: You're looking very flowery today, Sophia :)
sophia Placebo: hehe yes wol
Seasons and (dis-)comfort.
Mickorod Renard: I am looking forward to autumn
sophia Placebo: thanks , you look awsome yourself
kenji Pookes: Me too. I could do without summer in Texas.
Mickorod Renard: see you starkers then
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Mickorod Renard: ;)
sophia Placebo: we have no spring and no autumn
kenji Pookes: where is that?
Fael Illyar: not much spring here, either.
sophia Placebo: saudi arabia
kenji Pookes: I see. We don't have winter in Texas.
Fefonz Quan: I would guess in european term yuo have no winter Sophia
Mickorod Renard: we dont realy get a summer in the UK
kenji Pookes: We get plenty of summer in Texas, nice springs and autumn, too.
kenji Pookes: How hot is it in Saudi Arabia in the summer? It gets up around 43C here.
Wol Euler wilts at the mere thought of it.
sophia Placebo: hehe fef , well we dont get snow nor below -7 i guess but it is cold as some american and even uk poeple here
sophia Placebo: kenji it is 38 by now
sophia Placebo: it can go up to 60
kenji Pookes: In august and Septermber it will be over 40 most days.
Mickorod Renard: lol
Wol Euler: egad.
kenji Pookes: I wonder what 60 is in farenheit?
Wol Euler: I find anything over 28°C uncomfortable
Fefonz Quan: well i am in the US east coast, and there were months of snow here. nothing like midetterenian winter.
sophia Placebo: hehe wol, i found anything below 18 uncomfortable
Wol Euler: 60°C is 140°F, kenji
kenji Pookes: Where on the East coast? I am originally from Boston. I thought she meant 60C
sophia Placebo: 60 C yes kenji
kenji Pookes: 140 is too hot for me.
Wol Euler: I would stay indoors whimpering, even wiht airconditioning
Fefonz Quan: yes 60C seems terrible even for me
sophia Placebo: thats what we do mostly wol
Wol Euler: heheheheh, glad to hear it!
kenji Pookes: I'd move somewhere else, if I could. I don't like it here in Texas at 43C
Fefonz Quan: at least i guess it is dry there kenji.
Fefonz Quan: 43 adn humid is like living in a sweat Sauna (he heard lately of some benefits of it here)
kenji Pookes: Sort of. Austin, where I live, is relatively dry, although we are in the rainy season now (end of it). Two hours east is Houston, which is like living in a sauna. Most humid city in the uUS.
Fefonz Quan: in a more cool atmosphere, i just read the attention article sent to the group and it is great
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, haven't gotten round to that yet, looking forward to it
Fefonz Quan: yep, it is a treat. I even managed to read it with out distracting myself, just to see that i am not terminally poisoned yet
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Kenji's exit line guides the rest of the hour.
kenji Pookes: Well, I've got to run. Tim to vacuum the house and make dinner before my wife and daughter get home. Bye everyone.
Fefonz Quan: Bye Kenji
Wol Euler grins. Bye kenji, take care
Scathach Rhiadra: bye kenji
sophia Placebo: bye kenji
Mickorod Renard: bye Ken
Fael Illyar: bye Kenji
Fefonz Quan: and that's the new man of the houses
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Wol Euler: increasingly common, one hears.
Fefonz Quan: second that
Mickorod Renard: I did it for a few years
Mickorod Renard: thought it worked at the time,,but on reflection I dont think it did
Mickorod Renard: hiya ara
Wol Euler: hello ara
Fefonz Quan: Hey Ara
Fael Illyar: Hello arabella :)
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Ara
Wol Euler: how do you mean, mick?
sophia Placebo: hi ara
Fefonz Quan: Any long term bad impacts Mick?
Fael Illyar: Well, it seems I need to go now. See you later everyone :)
Fefonz Quan: Bye Fael
Mickorod Renard: I think so,,although maybe they were just there anyway
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Fael
sophia Placebo: bye fael
Mickorod Renard: bye Fael
Fael Illyar waves.
Wol Euler: bye fael, take care
Fefonz Quan: can you say more MIck so we can know what to be coutious about?
Wol Euler: :)
Mickorod Renard: well,,thats a tough one
Career as identity and independence (and money).
Mickorod Renard: but I think its wise not to become ,,or rather loose ones independant means
Fefonz Quan: yes i agree
Mickorod Renard: especially if you throw in a career
Fefonz Quan: yep, career is a big stone to throw in any soup...
Mickorod Renard: it also leaves you vulnerable
Fefonz Quan: many times it spills down most of the soup, hopefully not breaking the bowl
Fefonz Quan: do you think it does so Mick, because we are strongly defining ourselves by our careers?
Mickorod Renard: well, the vulnerability from missing out on career is one thing,,but also the work has a social aspect that one can miss out on too
Mickorod Renard: self asteem too
Wol Euler nods
Fefonz Quan: that sounds also like gender assymetric effect
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: yes,,at first i think i related well,,and felt I did an important role,,but as the kids grow up you become aware that you have given up alot more than you can honestly quantify
Mickorod Renard: then,,when its time to pick up life again,,its not so easy
Fefonz Quan nods
Mickorod Renard: what i should have done was to study in a worthwhile way whilst not working
Mickorod Renard: without sounding too dramatic,,,when your mothering is over,,you soon discover that you are a useless appendage,,and without value
Wol Euler: I'm sorry to hear that you felt that way, Mick
arabella Ella: i think it is a common situation ... experience ... for quite a few people
Scathach Rhiadra nods
arabella Ella: and a consequence of our often being brought up to expect life to proceed in a more idealistic way
arabella Ella: not being prepared for life's realities ... unfortunately
Mickorod Renard: the experience was of great value to me,,something that i could not have took more joy from
arabella Ella: and ... again unfortunately ... i think ... generally speaking ... it may often be a consequence of power struggles that often take place within relationships
Mickorod Renard: but some catch net would have been prudent
Mickorod Renard: yes,,power struggles are often there
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: not obvious,,but yes
Mickorod Renard: I have a job that I love very much now,,but I still have to cut out a way of life again
Expectations and social pressure.
Mickorod Renard: culturaly it was hard too
arabella Ella: but Mick ... life is full of different struggles ... we try to learn from our past experience ... it is good to get things off our chest and to share them ... but in life we move forward ... and one big lesson i find is the realisation we can neveer turn the clock back, we can only move on, so there is no point in regret ...
Mickorod Renard: as i felt that many people thought I was not doing the man thing
Mickorod Renard: yes, i feel i will be able to look back more favourably after i have sorted myself out better
Wol Euler: did they actually express that?
Mickorod Renard: yes,,some openly,others more subtlely
Mickorod Renard: scuse spelling
Wol Euler: I'm ... shocked is the word, I think.
sophia Placebo: what good points you gain from those 2 years beside studying i mean new insughts couldnt be brought up if you didnt do those 2 years?
Mickorod Renard: 2 years?
sophia Placebo: i guess you said 2 years sorry
Mickorod Renard: its ok
Mickorod Renard: I surrended part of my work for 6 years,,then followed with another 8 years outside of work
Fefonz Quan: wow, that's a lot
Mickorod Renard: although I worked very hard in other ways
Mickorod Renard: but the other ways are never fully appreciated without the value of money to give credence to
Fefonz Quan nods
Wol Euler: ... as generations of housewives have known
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Mickorod Renard: yes
Wol Euler: (not to devalue your experience, Mick)
Mickorod Renard: I dont in that way,,but I do feel some loss of self esteam
arabella Ella: but Mick I think you were also fortunate ...
arabella Ella: as you had experiences which people who work do not have time for
Mickorod Renard: I was very fortunate..its not an experience many men get to enjoy
arabella Ella: as work can become too much of an end in itself and not allow time for anything else
Wol Euler: right.
Mickorod Renard: but picking up the pieces afterwards is not so easy
Mickorod Renard: oops
arabella Ella: also ... perhaps as a consequence ... you can now enjoy your work more than most ... ooops
Scathach Rhiadra: and it all brought you to where you are now, without that experience you wuld not be who you are now:)
Wol Euler: also true.
arabella Ella nods
sophia Placebo: that is very long time off work , money work , very patient of you mick
Fefonz Quan nods with identificatin, from his only 1 year of no-work...
Mickorod Renard: that is so true,,I am not saying dont do it,,just build in a little defence
What is "work"?
Mickorod Renard: its funny, i worked very hard during that time as well,,but it seems to not be recognised
Mickorod Renard: like restoring an old huge house
Wol Euler smiles
Fefonz Quan: yes, people have funny way of reducing life to one parameter called money
Mickorod Renard: exactly
sophia Placebo: yes, taking care of the house and family issue seems culturally world wide devalued
arabella Ella: money ... and power ... unfortunately
Mickorod Renard: I also worked in real work,,although not in any professional way for about 2 years
Mickorod Renard: and,,ran my own small business during summer months
Fefonz Quan: i've read once that unworking (mothers) tasks valued gets to ~100,000$ a year
Mickorod Renard: yes,,what value can be put on it
arabella Ella: depends in which part of the world fefonz
Fefonz Quan: sure, but i guess it is similar world wide nromalized by the local costs of living
arabella Ella nods
Wol Euler: it would easily cost that much to buy equivalent services from professionals.
arabella Ella: not in my part of the world Wol
Mickorod Renard: it was an epoch in my life,,a good one,,but as i say,,i have to re build now
Fefonz Quan: so another chance to get reborned as new...
arabella Ella: yes Mick but no doubt you have many enjoyable experiences to look back on which people who are 'obsessed' with work could never even dream of having
Mickorod Renard: thats an interesting concept Ara
Objectivism. Objectionable?
Mickorod Renard: Birric was at Stims last night
arabella Ella: yes?
Mickorod Renard: and he brought up Rand
arabella Ella: oh nooooo
Mickorod Renard: yes
sophia Placebo: i have to leave , bye all
arabella Ella: LOL
Fefonz Quan: bye Sophia
arabella Ella: bye sophia
Mickorod Renard: bye sophie
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Sophia:)
Wol Euler: byes sophia, enjoy the weekend
Scathach Rhiadra: John Galt?
Mickorod Renard: Ayn Rand
Mickorod Renard: i think?
arabella Ella: yes that's the name
arabella Ella: altho i was not there yesterday
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, Atlas Shrugged, the most boring book I have ever tried to read
Mickorod Renard: I have been pondering on it ever since,,all day
Wol Euler grins and nods
arabella Ella: why is that mick?
arabella Ella: due to Stim's reaction?
Mickorod Renard: well,,quantifying ur place in the world
Mickorod Renard: no,,just the name of Rand was enough
Mickorod Renard: she refers to most of society as like cattle in fields,,feeding
arabella Ella: well from the little bit i know about her ... and dont really care to know more ... she seems to advocate a very uncaring and un-compassionate way of life ... so selfish ... sounds to me a bit like 'uebermensh' stuff
Wol Euler snorts
Mickorod Renard: and others,,usually those with no social concience as a higher order
Scathach Rhiadra: very bitter view of life
Mickorod Renard: yes
Fefonz Quan: yes, i thought she can appeal to you when you are 17 years old
Wol Euler: yeah, sad but true fef.
Fefonz Quan: than you grow up hopefully :)
Mickorod Renard: and I was wondering if I had made a wrong turn,,and if I should become ruthless
arabella Ella: i mean ... imagine what sort of a world we would live in if NOONE had a social conscience ... I dread to even think of that possibility
Scathach Rhiadra: no please don't Mick:)
Wol Euler: ah, mick ... no.
Mickorod Renard: then i got to thinking
arabella Ella: Mick ... you would not have met any of us here as friends if you had become more ruthless ... smile
Mickorod Renard: what made her think she was part of the higher order
Wol Euler: people who believe in higher orders _always_ think that they belong to them.
Mickorod Renard: was it because she was lucky that her work was published?
Mickorod Renard: or,,was it because she thought she was a contemplating person,,and as such raised her level of status
arabella Ella: i think it must have been the media who gave space to her views as they raised audience numbers
Wol Euler: she was certainly very fashionable, for a while and in certain circles
arabella Ella: hiya fael wb
Wol Euler: wb fael
Mickorod Renard: but it does raise questions in the mind
Fefonz Quan: well, first off all her growing up life, up to twenty-five, where shattered in a way by the bolshevic revolution. that might beig some antagonism
Scathach Rhiadra: in her mind maybe, but people like that don't understand if the world does not recognisre their 'greatness' and often end up trying to impose it on the world
Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats true
Wol Euler: I'm sorry, I must go. Thank you for a great conversation, I look forward to reading hte rest on the log :)
arabella Ella: bye Wol
Wol Euler: goodnight all, shabbat shalom
Fefonz Quan: night Wol
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Wol:)
Fefonz Quan: :)
Mickorod Renard: but its left many people today believing its ok to be like she invissages
Mickorod Renard: nite wol
Scathach Rhiadra: do you think they live very happy lives?
Fefonz Quan: well, many don't also. although i am not very educated regarding her, seems like she follows other philosophers (nitsche?)
Mickorod Renard: I think some take a perverse enjoyment in seeing their elevated position at the expense of ordinary folk
arabella Ella: dont forget tho Fef that people like Rand take only what suits them from other philosophers like Nietzsche
Fefonz Quan: right, i was just saying it in order to reduce her 'blame' in converting so many to this ego-faschism
Mickorod Renard: I remember giving Nietzsche a sorrt of nazi personna,,but I may have been cruel as I think sometimes he was trying to shock with his idea's
arabella Ella: Nietzsche was a very tormented soul in his personal life
Mickorod Renard: rather than actually believe them
Mickorod Renard: again,,he was in favour of the uberman
Mickorod Renard: or higher man
Mickorod Renard: super man
arabella Ella: he may have been attempting to critically analyse power structures and how they often operate ... in the context of his times
Fael Illyar: Ah, sorry, need to be afk here
Mickorod Renard: yes,,this was my ending thought on him Ara
Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,I have to move on
Fefonz Quan: somehow all these uberman ideas tend to result in many dead bodies, some of them of teh ubermen themselves
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Mickorod Renard: yes,,I agree Fef
arabella Ella: bye Micko
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Misk, thank you for the discussion
Fefonz Quan: Bye Mick
Mickorod Renard: my pleasure,,thankyou all
Mickorod Renard: bye Fef
Mickorod Renard: bye Ara
arabella Ella: nite Mick
arabella Ella: ciao everyone I must go too now
arabella Ella: good to see you here :)
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Ara:)
Fefonz Quan: bye ara, good to see you too
Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, good night Fefonz, Namasté
Fefonz Quan: Namaste Scath
Scathach Rhiadra: nigth again Fael:)
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Mick,
it was so good to hear you talk about all this. I'm in a very similar place!
Let me share something Fael said the other day which gave a HUGE boost:
I had quoted Mother Teresa's "We cannot all do great things, but we can do small
things with great love" to which Fael replied "We all do great things, we just don't see them as great things."
For whatever reason I found that brilliantly encouraging!!!
And good timing on the scribe stepping in, as I will be away that week in June. Maybe by the next month a new schedule will be made! :)
-Eliza