2009.05.22 13:00 - Not doing the man thing

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session, filling in for the unavoidably detained Mr. Laville.


    Wol Euler: hello kenji
    kenji Pookes: Hi
    Wol Euler: three weeks old :) How are you finding SL?
    kenji Pookes: Interesting.
    Wol Euler: personally interesting or just anthropologically?
    kenji Pookes: IS there a difference?
    Wol Euler: maybe :)
    Wol Euler: one can be professionally interested in things that one would not spend private time on
    kenji Pookes: What's it like being a dog?
    Wol Euler grins. Doglike.
    Wol Euler: Hard to say, what's it like being human?
    kenji Pookes: Ruff.

    /me sighs. I missed this joke at the time. Sorry, Kenji.

    Wol Euler: this is what I know, to me it's normal
    Wol Euler: like children think the family they grew up in is normal and typical
    Wol Euler: only later they find out that not all parents are alcoholics, or opera freaks, or whatever
    kenji Pookes: Are you actually connected to the university of Gottengen?
    Wol Euler: hello scath, mick
    Wol Euler: no, not at all :)
    kenji Pookes: Oh, too bad. I've been there--nice place.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol, kenji:)
    kenji Pookes: hi
    Wol Euler: it's a bit of an in-joke, a reminder taht things in SL are not always what they seem
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Wol Scath Ken
    kenji Pookes: How is that different from RL?
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Fael
    Wol Euler: kenji, I have to give you a bit of an intro here. This is a meeting of a meditation and discussion group called Play as Being. Have you been here before?
    kenji Pookes: yes, I have
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Scath, Wol, Mick, Kenji :)
    Wol Euler: ok, so you have the notecard, and know that we record and publish the sessions
    kenji Pookes: hi
    kenji Pookes: yes
    Wol Euler smiles. Good.
    Wol Euler: hello fael, sorry


    Wol Euler: Solobill isn't here tonight, he asked me to take the log and guide the session.
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure but I may be doing his scribing next month
    Mickorod Renard: at least some of it
    Wol Euler: have you signed up to take over?
    Mickorod Renard: no,,but I think eliza is/was doing it
    Mickorod Renard: and I am giving her a break
    Wol Euler: aah
    Mickorod Renard: providing thats ok,,,he he
    Wol Euler smiles
    Mickorod Renard: Pema did ask me to participate in scribe work
    Mickorod Renard: and I thought it would be a good way to start
    Wol Euler: if it doesn't work out, you can have my slot.
    Wol Euler: or even if it does .... :
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: eeeek
    Scathach Rhiadra: starting last month?
    Wol Euler: :-PPPPPPPPP
    Scathach Rhiadra: =^.^=
    Scathach Rhiadra: =^.^=
    Wol Euler: no, I will do that one before I go. I shall leave with a clean slate
    Mickorod Renard: I need to read a few,,and get into the idea of it all
    Mickorod Renard: what are your interests ken?
    kenji Pookes: Me? At the moment trying to figure out the Japanese name for Fael. I can't see the second character very well, but the word looks like Kousou, which is red algae, which I don't think is right. Font is too small for me to see well.
    Wol Euler chuckles
    kenji Pookes: My eyes are not too good.
    Fael Illyar smiles 'It's not Japanese for my SL name.'
    Wol Euler apologises for her levity.
    kenji Pookes: Well, it's Japanese for something and it is a name.
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Fael Illyar: Hi Fefonz :)
    kenji Pookes: How d you read it?
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Fef
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Fael Illyar: guren-chan
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Heya everybody :)
    kenji Pookes: I see.
    Fael Illyar: it's red lotus, the meaning.
    kenji Pookes: Very nice name--a crimson lotus flower.

    As though answering a call, Sophia arrives wearing a marvellous flowery outfit.


    Fael Illyar: Hi Sophia :)
    Wol Euler: hello sophia
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Sophia
    kenji Pookes: hi
    Fefonz Quan: hi Sophia
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Sophia
    Wol Euler: wow, what a great av
    Wol Euler: Spring is here.
    Fael Illyar: You're looking very flowery today, Sophia :)
    sophia Placebo: hehe yes wol

    Seasons and (dis-)comfort.

    Mickorod Renard: I am looking forward to autumn
    sophia Placebo: thanks , you look awsome yourself
    kenji Pookes: Me too. I could do without summer in Texas.
    Mickorod Renard: see you starkers then
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    sophia Placebo: we have no spring and no autumn
    kenji Pookes: where is that?
    Fael Illyar: not much spring here, either.
    sophia Placebo: saudi arabia
    kenji Pookes: I see. We don't have winter in Texas.
    Fefonz Quan: I would guess in european term yuo have no winter Sophia
    Mickorod Renard: we dont realy get a summer in the UK
    kenji Pookes: We get plenty of summer in Texas, nice springs and autumn, too.
    kenji Pookes: How hot is it in Saudi Arabia in the summer? It gets up around 43C here.
    Wol Euler wilts at the mere thought of it.
    sophia Placebo: hehe fef , well we dont get snow nor below -7 i guess but it is cold as some american and even uk poeple here
    sophia Placebo: kenji it is 38 by now
    sophia Placebo: it can go up to 60
    kenji Pookes: In august and Septermber it will be over 40 most days.
    Mickorod Renard: lol
    Wol Euler: egad.
    kenji Pookes: I wonder what 60 is in farenheit?
    Wol Euler: I find anything over 28°C uncomfortable
    Fefonz Quan: well i am in the US east coast, and there were months of snow here. nothing like midetterenian winter.
    sophia Placebo: hehe wol, i found anything below 18 uncomfortable
    Wol Euler: 60°C is 140°F, kenji
    kenji Pookes: Where on the East coast? I am originally from Boston. I thought she meant 60C
    sophia Placebo: 60 C yes kenji
    kenji Pookes: 140 is too hot for me.
    Wol Euler: I would stay indoors whimpering, even wiht airconditioning
    Fefonz Quan: yes 60C seems terrible even for me
    sophia Placebo: thats what we do mostly wol
    Wol Euler: heheheheh, glad to hear it!
    kenji Pookes: I'd move somewhere else, if I could. I don't like it here in Texas at 43C
    Fefonz Quan: at least i guess it is dry there kenji.
    Fefonz Quan: 43 adn humid is like living in a sweat Sauna (he heard lately of some benefits of it here)
    kenji Pookes: Sort of. Austin, where I live, is relatively dry, although we are in the rainy season now (end of it). Two hours east is Houston, which is like living in a sauna. Most humid city in the uUS.
    Fefonz Quan: in a more cool atmosphere, i just read the attention article sent to the group and it is great
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, haven't gotten round to that yet, looking forward to it
    Fefonz Quan: yep, it is a treat. I even managed to read it with out distracting myself, just to see that i am not terminally poisoned yet
    Wol Euler: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Kenji's exit line guides the rest of the hour.

    kenji Pookes: Well, I've got to run. Tim to vacuum the house and make dinner before my wife and daughter get home. Bye everyone.
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Kenji
    Wol Euler grins. Bye kenji, take care
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye kenji
    sophia Placebo: bye kenji
    Mickorod Renard: bye Ken
    Fael Illyar: bye Kenji
    Fefonz Quan: and that's the new man of the houses
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: increasingly common, one hears.
    Fefonz Quan: second that
    Mickorod Renard: I did it for a few years
    Mickorod Renard: thought it worked at the time,,but on reflection I dont think it did
    Mickorod Renard: hiya ara
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Ara
    Fael Illyar: Hello arabella :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Ara
    Wol Euler: how do you mean, mick?
    sophia Placebo: hi ara
    Fefonz Quan: Any long term bad impacts Mick?
    Fael Illyar: Well, it seems I need to go now. See you later everyone :)
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Fael
    Mickorod Renard: I think so,,although maybe they were just there anyway
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Fael
    sophia Placebo: bye fael
    Mickorod Renard: bye Fael
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Wol Euler: bye fael, take care
    Fefonz Quan: can you say more MIck so we can know what to be coutious about?
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,thats a tough one

    Career as identity and independence (and money).

    Mickorod Renard: but I think its wise not to become ,,or rather loose ones independant means
    Fefonz Quan: yes i agree
    Mickorod Renard: especially if you throw in a career
    Fefonz Quan: yep, career is a big stone to throw in any soup...
    Mickorod Renard: it also leaves you vulnerable
    Fefonz Quan: many times it spills down most of the soup, hopefully not breaking the bowl
    Fefonz Quan: do you think it does so Mick, because we are strongly defining ourselves by our careers?
    Mickorod Renard: well, the vulnerability from missing out on career is one thing,,but also the work has a social aspect that one can miss out on too
    Mickorod Renard: self asteem too
    Wol Euler nods
    Fefonz Quan: that sounds also like gender assymetric effect
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,at first i think i related well,,and felt I did an important role,,but as the kids grow up you become aware that you have given up alot more than you can honestly quantify
    Mickorod Renard: then,,when its time to pick up life again,,its not so easy
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Mickorod Renard: what i should have done was to study in a worthwhile way whilst not working
    Mickorod Renard: without sounding too dramatic,,,when your mothering is over,,you soon discover that you are a useless appendage,,and without value
    Wol Euler: I'm sorry to hear that you felt that way, Mick
    arabella Ella: i think it is a common situation ... experience ... for quite a few people
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    arabella Ella: and a consequence of our often being brought up to expect life to proceed in a more idealistic way
    arabella Ella: not being prepared for life's realities ... unfortunately
    Mickorod Renard: the experience was of great value to me,,something that i could not have took more joy from
    arabella Ella: and ... again unfortunately ... i think ... generally speaking ... it may often be a consequence of power struggles that often take place within relationships
    Mickorod Renard: but some catch net would have been prudent
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,power struggles are often there
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: not obvious,,but yes
    Mickorod Renard: I have a job that I love very much now,,but I still have to cut out a way of life again

    Expectations and social pressure.

    Mickorod Renard: culturaly it was hard too
    arabella Ella: but Mick ... life is full of different struggles ... we try to learn from our past experience ... it is good to get things off our chest and to share them ... but in life we move forward ... and one big lesson i find is the realisation we can neveer turn the clock back, we can only move on, so there is no point in regret ...
    Mickorod Renard: as i felt that many people thought I was not doing the man thing
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i feel i will be able to look back more favourably after i have sorted myself out better
    Wol Euler: did they actually express that?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,some openly,others more subtlely
    Mickorod Renard: scuse spelling
    Wol Euler: I'm ... shocked is the word, I think.
    sophia Placebo: what good points you gain from those 2 years beside studying i mean new insughts couldnt be brought up if you didnt do those 2 years?
    Mickorod Renard: 2 years?
    sophia Placebo: i guess you said 2 years sorry
    Mickorod Renard: its ok
    Mickorod Renard: I surrended part of my work for 6 years,,then followed with another 8 years outside of work
    Fefonz Quan: wow, that's a lot
    Mickorod Renard: although I worked very hard in other ways
    Mickorod Renard: but the other ways are never fully appreciated without the value of money to give credence to
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Wol Euler: ... as generations of housewives have known
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Wol Euler: (not to devalue your experience, Mick)
    Mickorod Renard: I dont in that way,,but I do feel some loss of self esteam
    arabella Ella: but Mick I think you were also fortunate ...
    arabella Ella: as you had experiences which people who work do not have time for
    Mickorod Renard: I was very fortunate..its not an experience many men get to enjoy
    arabella Ella: as work can become too much of an end in itself and not allow time for anything else
    Wol Euler: right.
    Mickorod Renard: but picking up the pieces afterwards is not so easy
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    arabella Ella: also ... perhaps as a consequence ... you can now enjoy your work more than most ... ooops
    Scathach Rhiadra: and it all brought you to where you are now, without that experience you wuld not be who you are now:)
    Wol Euler: also true.
    arabella Ella nods
    sophia Placebo: that is very long time off work , money work , very patient of you mick
    Fefonz Quan nods with identificatin, from his only 1 year of no-work...
    Mickorod Renard: that is so true,,I am not saying dont do it,,just build in a little defence

    What is "work"?

    Mickorod Renard: its funny, i worked very hard during that time as well,,but it seems to not be recognised
    Mickorod Renard: like restoring an old huge house
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fefonz Quan: yes, people have funny way of reducing life to one parameter called money
    Mickorod Renard: exactly
    sophia Placebo: yes, taking care of the house and family issue seems culturally world wide devalued
    arabella Ella: money ... and power ... unfortunately
    Mickorod Renard: I also worked in real work,,although not in any professional way for about 2 years
    Mickorod Renard: and,,ran my own small business during summer months
    Fefonz Quan: i've read once that unworking (mothers) tasks valued gets to ~100,000$ a year
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,what value can be put on it
    arabella Ella: depends in which part of the world fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: sure, but i guess it is similar world wide nromalized by the local costs of living
    arabella Ella nods
    Wol Euler: it would easily cost that much to buy equivalent services from professionals.
    arabella Ella: not in my part of the world Wol
    Mickorod Renard: it was an epoch in my life,,a good one,,but as i say,,i have to re build now
    Fefonz Quan: so another chance to get reborned as new...
    arabella Ella: yes Mick but no doubt you have many enjoyable experiences to look back on which people who are 'obsessed' with work could never even dream of having
    Mickorod Renard: thats an interesting concept Ara

    Objectivism. Objectionable?

    Mickorod Renard: Birric was at Stims last night
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Mickorod Renard: and he brought up Rand
    arabella Ella: oh nooooo
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    sophia Placebo: i have to leave , bye all
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Fefonz Quan: bye Sophia
    arabella Ella: bye sophia
    Mickorod Renard: bye sophie
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Sophia:)
    Wol Euler: byes sophia, enjoy the weekend
    Scathach Rhiadra: John Galt?
    Mickorod Renard: Ayn Rand 
    Mickorod Renard: i think?
    arabella Ella: yes that's the name
    arabella Ella: altho i was not there yesterday
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, Atlas Shrugged, the most boring book I have ever tried to read
    Mickorod Renard: I have been pondering on it ever since,,all day
    Wol Euler grins and nods
    arabella Ella: why is that mick?
    arabella Ella: due to Stim's reaction?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,quantifying ur place in the world
    Mickorod Renard: no,,just the name of Rand was enough
    Mickorod Renard: she refers to most of society as like cattle in fields,,feeding
    arabella Ella: well from the little bit i know about her ... and dont really care to know more ... she seems to advocate a very uncaring and un-compassionate way of life ... so selfish ... sounds to me a bit like 'uebermensh' stuff
    Wol Euler snorts
    Mickorod Renard: and others,,usually those with no social concience as a higher order
    Scathach Rhiadra: very bitter view of life
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i thought she can appeal to you when you are 17 years old
    Wol Euler: yeah, sad but true fef.
    Fefonz Quan: than you grow up hopefully :)
    Mickorod Renard: and I was wondering if I had made a wrong turn,,and if I should become ruthless
    arabella Ella: i mean ... imagine what sort of a world we would live in if NOONE had a social conscience ... I dread to even think of that possibility
    Scathach Rhiadra: no please don't Mick:)
    Wol Euler: ah, mick ... no.
    Mickorod Renard: then i got to thinking
    arabella Ella: Mick ... you would not have met any of us here as friends if you had become more ruthless ... smile
    Mickorod Renard: what made her think she was part of the higher order
    Wol Euler: people who believe in higher orders _always_ think that they belong to them.
    Mickorod Renard: was it because she was lucky that her work was published?
    Mickorod Renard: or,,was it because she thought she was a contemplating person,,and as such raised her level of status
    arabella Ella: i think it must have been the media who gave space to her views as they raised audience numbers
    Wol Euler: she was certainly very fashionable, for a while and in certain circles
    arabella Ella: hiya fael wb
    Wol Euler: wb fael
    Mickorod Renard: but it does raise questions in the mind
    Fefonz Quan: well, first off all her growing up life, up to twenty-five, where shattered in a way by the bolshevic revolution. that might beig some antagonism
    Scathach Rhiadra: in her mind maybe, but people like that don't understand if the world does not recognisre their 'greatness' and often end up trying to impose it on the world
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats true
    Wol Euler: I'm sorry, I must go. Thank you for a great conversation, I look forward to reading hte rest on the log :)
    arabella Ella: bye Wol
    Wol Euler: goodnight all, shabbat shalom
    Fefonz Quan: night Wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Wol:)
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Mickorod Renard: but its left many people today believing its ok to be like she invissages
    Mickorod Renard: nite wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: do you think they live very happy lives?
    Fefonz Quan: well, many don't also. although i am not very educated regarding her, seems like she follows other philosophers (nitsche?)
    Mickorod Renard: I think some take a perverse enjoyment in seeing their elevated position at the expense of ordinary folk
    arabella Ella: dont forget tho Fef that people like Rand take only what suits them from other philosophers like Nietzsche
    Fefonz Quan: right, i was just saying it in order to reduce her 'blame' in converting so many to this ego-faschism
    Mickorod Renard: I remember giving Nietzsche a sorrt of nazi personna,,but I may have been cruel as I think sometimes he was trying to shock with his idea's
    arabella Ella: Nietzsche was a very tormented soul in his personal life
    Mickorod Renard: rather than actually believe them
    Mickorod Renard: again,,he was in favour of the uberman
    Mickorod Renard: or higher man
    Mickorod Renard: super man
    arabella Ella: he may have been attempting to critically analyse power structures and how they often operate ... in the context of his times
    Fael Illyar: Ah, sorry, need to be afk here
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,this was my ending thought on him Ara
    Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,I have to move on
    Fefonz Quan: somehow all these uberman ideas tend to result in many dead bodies, some of them of teh ubermen themselves
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I agree Fef
    arabella Ella: bye Micko
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Misk, thank you for the discussion
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Mick
    Mickorod Renard: my pleasure,,thankyou all
    Mickorod Renard: bye Fef
    Mickorod Renard: bye Ara
    arabella Ella: nite Mick
    arabella Ella: ciao everyone I must go too now
    arabella Ella: good to see you here :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Ara:)
    Fefonz Quan: bye ara, good to see you too
    Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, good night Fefonz, Namasté
    Fefonz Quan: Namaste Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: nigth again Fael:)

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    a marvellous spring-like outfit
    163.79 kB15:47, 9 Apr 2010wolActions
    Viewing 1 of 1 comments: view all
    Originally written on 13:43, 23 May 2009
    it was so good to hear you talk about all this. I'm in a very similar place!
    Let me share something Fael said the other day which gave a HUGE boost:
    I had quoted Mother Teresa's "We cannot all do great things, but we can do small
    things with great love" to which Fael replied "We all do great things, we just don't see them as great things."
    For whatever reason I found that brilliantly encouraging!!!
    And good timing on the scribe stepping in, as I will be away that week in June. Maybe by the next month a new schedule will be made! :)
    Posted 08:48, 9 Apr 2010
    Viewing 1 of 1 comments: view all
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