2009.05.23 19:00 - Brahmamuhurta, Samadhi, Vipassana

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The paragraphs were placed by SophiaSharon Larnia.


    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Buddha
    buddha Nirvana: Hello Sophia:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema couldn't be here tonight
    buddha Nirvana: :)
    buddha Nirvana: Pila:) Hello
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi buddha and SophiaSharon
    Pila Mulligan: very slow (laggy) toda it seems
    SophiaSharon Larnia: weekend?
    buddha Nirvana: yes, i've had that. have been a cloud here and there
    Pila Mulligan: probably
    Pila Mulligan: it's taking about 10-15 seconds for me to see what I type appear in the chat
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too pila
    Pila Mulligan: oh, well, think how much time it would take if we were doing it by postal mail
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    buddha Nirvana: :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it seems my 90 seconds of silence extends to hours, very welcome now :))
    Pila Mulligan: "Stillness and tranquillity set things in order in the universe" Tao Te Ching
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I worked in my yard for 5 hours today and wore myself out :))
    Pila Mulligan: feels good, though, I imagine
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, every now and the sunlight would hit me a certain way and i would pause
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and listen
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like there are 2 people doing the work
    SophiaSharon Larnia: one acting one listening
    Pila Mulligan: I was going to have a similar day but the two young kids from next door came over to show me their new puppy
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so the day went at the pace of an old guy, two kids and a puppy :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: catching, that kind of exurberance :))
    Pila Mulligan: a puppy is an especially clean mirror of reality, it seems
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that is a lovely
    Pila Mulligan: what RL time is now where you are SophiaSharon and Buddha? -- it is 4:30 pm here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is 10:30 pm here on the east coast, usa :))
    Pila Mulligan: ah, not so late then
    SophiaSharon Larnia: youy are in Hawaii ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: very nice
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you always lived there?
    Pila Mulligan: since 1985
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope to go someday
    buddha Nirvana: 03:37am here

    Pila Mulligan: Buddha, you must be a night person
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Where are you, Buddha?
    buddha Nirvana: yea... i dont sleep much these days
    buddha Nirvana: In thU.K
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    buddha Nirvana: the U.K*
    Pila Mulligan: I like to get up at 4:00 am to meditate, it seems to be the best time for stillness all around
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I love dawn, it is my favorite time of the day
    buddha Nirvana: very nice pila, yes. the mind suprising alert too
    Pila Mulligan: someone told me there is actually a name for that time in India, related to meditation
    Pila Mulligan: stillness before the dawn
    buddha Nirvana: the retreat that i go to, they sound the 1st bell at 4am for the days first meditation, its nice o meditate in a half dream state
    Pila Mulligan: (that's not the nanme, just ruminating:)
    buddha Nirvana: ah:)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is
    Pila Mulligan: it is also interesting to meditate in a dream
    Pila Mulligan: but it seems dificult to maintain
    buddha Nirvana: yes, the mind seems elusive
    buddha Nirvana: here we go:
    buddha Nirvana: Brahmamuhurta (the time of God):
    Pila Mulligan: must have soemthing to do with getting relaxed when you are already sleeping :)
    buddha Nirvana: :))
    Pila Mulligan: what is Brahmamuhurta , Buddha?
    buddha Nirvana: i just looked it up, its the name of the 3am-6am meditation
    Pila Mulligan: oh, thanks :)
    buddha Nirvana: 4-6*
    Pila Mulligan: very nice
    buddha Nirvana: yes, first time ive heard of it, thanks
    Pila Mulligan: how did you find it, may i ask?
    buddha Nirvana: i googled:)
    Pila Mulligan: oh ... yes, there is a God
    Pila Mulligan: its name is Goggle
    Pila Mulligan: all-knowing
    Pila Mulligan: instant repsonse
    SophiaSharon Larnia laughs
    Pila Mulligan: sorry if it sounds offensive :)
    Pila Mulligan: but Google is remarkable to me
    buddha Nirvana: lol

    buddha Nirvana: heres more: our sages and saints have eulogised the benefits of waking up early in the morning, before 4 am. This time 4 am - 6 am is called Brahmamuhurta (the time of God): it is the best time for entering into deep meditation (thoughtless awareness) and Samadhi.
    buddha Nirvana: = http://osdir.com/ml/politics.parties.../msg00002.html
    buddha Nirvana: thats funny, how we can be unaware of a principle but share the sentiment... perhaps its because its valid
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    buddha Nirvana: my particular practice is based on samadhi, and the description is spot on
    Pila Mulligan: that's how some practices can be largely self-teaching
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we become aware of the same things but call it by different words
    SophiaSharon Larnia: can you explain that more, Buddha?
    buddha Nirvana: sure, but something as personal as meditation - we can appreciate the accuracy more perhaps?
    buddha Nirvana: samadhi?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    buddha Nirvana: sure
    buddha Nirvana: my practice of it, vipassana, is wjere you focus the mind on something... for example first breathing - the mind becomes still and calm and you are ready to practice vipassana
    buddha Nirvana: but ut basicly means concentration
    buddha Nirvana: its the desired state of mind once looks to achieve before the insight work
    buddha Nirvana: one*
    Pila Mulligan: do you know of any relationship between vipassana and kriya?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry if I use an awkward description, but is Samadhi a practice that helps to see past our distracting, earthly thoughts
    buddha Nirvana: i've heard of kriya pila, but never looked into it in much depth, i wouldnt know of any comparisons
    Pila Mulligan: I notice in an artcile from Google that vipasanna involves "observing the sensations within the body"
    buddha Nirvana: kind of sophia, its really about subdueing the mind - for thoughts cease entirely, worldly or otherwise
    buddha Nirvana: thats right pila, thats it entirely
    buddha Nirvana: i think ive mentioned it here a few times
    Pila Mulligan: to me that is really the best part of meditation
    Pila Mulligan: observing the sensations within the body
    buddha Nirvana: yes, they are the only things we can truely experience
    buddha Nirvana: its actually the technique buddha used
    buddha Nirvana: and luckily its been passed on in its purest form
    Pila Mulligan: Kriyas are the spontaneous movements of the body
    Pila Mulligan: Paramahansa Yogananda wrote about it
    Pila Mulligan: it is a similar approach
    buddha Nirvana: and you are to be aware of those movements?
    Pila Mulligan: but it also involves observations of kriya in all contexts, not just meditation
    Pila Mulligan: yes, awareness is the idea
    buddha Nirvana: so kriya manifests internally and externally, and you are to observe both?
    Pila Mulligan: that it my take on it -- like everything there are different schools
    Pila Mulligan: my practice is Chinese, but all of these things relate to the same expereince
    Pila Mulligan: and as you said earlier, e can be unaware of a principle but share the sentiment
    buddha Nirvana: :)

    buddha Nirvana: in my experience it was a fairly hard technique to observe at first
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what helped you through that?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I agree Buddha, it is hard at first
    buddha Nirvana: my 1st 10 day retreat back when i was 21, i was forced to observe sensations that were quite overwhelming
    buddha Nirvana: by the seventh day i was quite a state :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia nods
    buddha Nirvana: it helped to miss a few sittings
    buddha Nirvana: to entertain trivial thoughts for a while, familiarity i guess
    Pila Mulligan: balancing the old with the new
    buddha Nirvana: yea, finding a middle way
    buddha Nirvana: i may have had an outer body experience, it felt like that at one point
    Pila Mulligan: that could be very intense
    buddha Nirvana: the teacher put it down to imagination
    buddha Nirvana: yes, its 12 hours of meditation daily
    buddha Nirvana: and your following noble silence too
    Pila Mulligan: and you've continued the practice since then?
    buddha Nirvana: yes, its a technique you can sit down to intentionally observe or one you can observe in daily life
    buddha Nirvana: at work, play ... your always in your body
    Pila Mulligan: do you meditate daily as well?
    buddha Nirvana: i do yes
    buddha Nirvana: i take sitting here at the buddha center mon-fri
    buddha Nirvana: and also offline
    Pila Mulligan: my practice also has been daily, but less intense than the retreat you described
    buddha Nirvana: sure, that kind of practice can be hard to sustain.. but its relative i think. the long european long course center has opened here in the UK and will cater for 60 - 90 day courses
    buddha Nirvana: of the same intensity
    Pila Mulligan: by observing the sensations within the body you seem to become more aware of how things work, generally
    buddha Nirvana: yes
    buddha Nirvana: it gives you direct insight of how you may react to certain causes
    buddha Nirvana: and further more gives you the ability to not react
    Pila Mulligan: and how there are often physical reasons for what we feel and think
    buddha Nirvana: yea, the premis is that there is no body mind duality
    Pila Mulligan: the big lesson from my practice has been that most of what we think of as mental is actually physical -- muscles, etc
    buddha Nirvana: sure
    buddha Nirvana: the technique has been researched and proven that as a by product inteligence improved vastly in people who started the practice
    Pila Mulligan: interesting
    buddha Nirvana: i think thats down to enabling longer spells of concentration
    buddha Nirvana: and i guess that could apply to any practice, or form of concentration
    Pila Mulligan: this is why the cobbler can reach nirvana
    buddha Nirvana: that it stills the mind and allows it to become more able to ..do things lol
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    buddha Nirvana: yea, and most likely is better equipped
    Pila Mulligan: well, an expereinced cobbler probably finds satisfaction sitting at work for ten hours
    buddha Nirvana: :))
    Pila Mulligan: and part of the satisfaction no doubts relates to the breathing and the contemplation of the art
    Pila Mulligan: and proably also to observing the sensations within the body at some times
    buddha Nirvana: :))
    buddha Nirvana: i think we all do it, but perhaps only when we feel intense pain, or joy, lust
    buddha Nirvana: any extreme sensation
    Pila Mulligan: yes, but I tihnk people also gradually accumulate insights from uniintentionally observing the sensations within the body
    buddha Nirvana: yes
    Pila Mulligan: even the less intense sensationssmalle rones
    Pila Mulligan: or smaller ones*
    Pila Mulligan: bad typing :)
    buddha Nirvana: its funny, i can remember how i use to gather insights
    buddha Nirvana: even directly after the 1st course
    buddha Nirvana: as if i had done some hardware re-wiring
    Pila Mulligan: if i understand the meatphor, you probably did
    buddha Nirvana: i thnk my insights in the main came from the thought process them self
    buddha Nirvana: prior, i mean
    Pila Mulligan: oh, I see
    buddha Nirvana: thinking my way into things
    buddha Nirvana: its hard to imagine, even after attending a few courses, what it would be like to undergo a 60-90 day course

    Pila Mulligan: hi Fortune and Kenji
    buddha Nirvana: hello fortune, kenji:)
    kenji Pookes: Hello everyone.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Kenji
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you attended a play as being group before Kenji?
    kenji Pookes: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok :))
    Pila Mulligan: Buddha has been describing some of his intense vipassana expereinces
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Fortune
    Fortune Crystal: Hi
    Pila Mulligan: and observing the sensations within the body
    Pila Mulligan: kenji has been discussing cultural infufences here before, and vipassana seems to qualify as a culutre :)
    Pila Mulligan: influ*ences
    kenji Pookes: What is vipassana
    buddha Nirvana: i must go. be well everyone:)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Buddha
    kenji Pookes: Bye
    buddha Nirvana: www.dhamma.org would be a useful resource to understaind Vipassana
    buddha Nirvana: nite:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Fortune I gave you a notecard, we record our sessions, is this okay that you are included?
    Fortune Crystal: It is fine with me that we are recorded.
    Pila Mulligan: chat logs are posted here : http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go too, have a great night, or day!!!
    Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon, nice to see you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!
    kenji Pookes: Bye
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Kenji, did you and Fortune arrive here at the same time just now by coincidence?
    kenji Pookes: yes
    Fortune Crystal: pure coincidence
    Pila Mulligan: well, good timing -- thank you
    Fortune Crystal: Well, I am going to take a look around this place and check out the info on the notecard. Peace and joy to you all.
    Pila Mulligan: nice ot meet you -- see you next time
    kenji Pookes: Afraid sleep deprevation is getting to me--eyes are closing. I think I'll take off. See you later Pila.
    Pila Mulligan: ok, bye Kenji, see oyu later

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