2010.02.08 19:00 - Urban Markets and India Coffeehouse

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    Doug and I got into a discussion about a current urban market project I was working on....

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello doug
    doug Sosa: hi steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: how are you?
    doug Sosa: in the middle of a muddle, so my brain is a puddle.
    stevenaia Michinaga: haven;t see you in a while
    stevenaia Michinaga: seen
    doug Sosa: big puddle :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps you need mind clearing (brain washing?)
    doug Sosa: no, did that. now it is letting it all come back in, hopefully better organized.
    stevenaia Michinaga: you don;t hear that phrase much
    doug Sosa: which?
    stevenaia Michinaga: brain washing
    doug Sosa: ah yes, well it normally sounds bad., but i like it.
    doug Sosa: let me ask back, how you are?
    stevenaia Michinaga: suppose it is just assumed it is everywhere
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am good, 9" of snow this weekend, 14-18 coming on wednesday, I like it
    doug Sosa: i remember in DC when after a big snow people booed the first moving cars.
    stevenaia Michinaga: A new month brought new and interesting work
    doug Sosa: Hey that sounds interesting! que?
    stevenaia Michinaga: DC doesn;t do good with snow
    stevenaia Michinaga: urban mixed use project I've been working on for the past few years is finally taking shape
    stevenaia Michinaga: (funding)
    doug Sosa: how mixed? people? plants, art?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Urban food market and apartments
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Bene, nice of you to drop in
    doug Sosa: is any of the food growable within the project?
    Benedizione Vita: evening gents
    doug Sosa: Hi bene.
    stevenaia Michinaga: it could draw on regional farms, seems to be the trend
    doug Sosa: no way to bring pieces of it inside the project/
    doug Sosa: /=?
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I am (only) the space provider in this case
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Eden
    doug Sosa: space providers have leverage, no?
    Eden Haiku: Hi Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: not connected to the tenant delivery
    stevenaia Michinaga: not directly
    doug Sosa: hm, sounds like rethinking a bit might be in order, but that is just me.
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the possibility is there
    stevenaia Michinaga: I agree
    doug Sosa: ah. if there were some grown inside, and the food market.. any of the workers going to live in the project?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I can also bring local forces to bare
    doug Sosa: watch out.. bear...
    stevenaia Michinaga: that possibility exists since there will be ample housing above
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: close to transport to NYC as well
    doug Sosa: sounds promising. go really MIXED use.
    doug Sosa: is it condos or rents?
    stevenaia Michinaga: on main transit route
    stevenaia Michinaga: rents
    doug Sosa: can shares be bought?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not a coop
    doug Sosa: but of the business?
    stevenaia Michinaga: but these thing can change with time and the market
    doug Sosa: is the food market the owner or also a tenant?
    stevenaia Michinaga: tenant
    doug Sosa: great opportunity to practice 9 sec, see if new angles emerge when old ones are dropped.
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: This is the first urban market of a reasonable size in town in decades
    stevenaia Michinaga: most have to travel out to the burbs in a car to shop now
    doug Sosa: is it a chain or local initiative?
    doug Sosa: We are looking to do similar in Palo Alto.
    stevenaia Michinaga: no one local want to go downtown
    stevenaia Michinaga: that;s a different kind of town
    doug Sosa: well, we have east palo alto, and some unused land.
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Storm
    doug Sosa: it is good to practice 9 sec in the middle of these projects. the idea of dropping assumptions..

    Storm then joined us followed by Eden from her travels in India 

    Storm Nordwind: Hello everyone!
    doug Sosa: hi s
    stevenaia Michinaga: always a good idea at any point
    Eden Haiku: Hi Storm!
    Storm Nordwind waves a big smile to Eden!
    doug Sosa: how can she see your smile from behind you? :)
    doug Sosa: oops :(
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiled right offline
    Storm Nordwind: She couldn't see anything, especially now
    doug Sosa: back!
    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Eden
    Eden Haiku: Back
    Storm Nordwind: I'm so glad the system works Eden!
    doug Sosa: ?
    Eden Haiku: Yes
    Eden Haiku: I'm in this incredible little shop few feet from the Ganges
    Storm Nordwind: wow!
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, you traveling in India?
    doug Sosa: oh... grey sky grey water grey land?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yellow food
    Eden Haiku: Using wifi on my ipod touch sitting on a wall to wall white mattress with cushions
    doug Sosa: fro my time there twenty years ago, i can't imagine white.
    Eden Haiku: White is a wishful color yes..:)))
    Eden Haiku: Place is kind of clean though. They keep vacuuming...
    Storm Nordwind: Can you receive pictures in your email Eden, and if so what size?
    stevenaia Michinaga: how long you going to be there?
    doug Sosa: when i was there, little electricity, and the cows were always high on grass.
    Eden Haiku: Yes i can Storm
    Eden Haiku: I'm here until mid-march Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: you may be out first participant from india
    Eden Haiku: Oh oh what an honor!
    EdenFromIndiaSmall_001.jpgStorm Nordwind: When you have a moment to check Eden, you have mail - with PaB snapshots from right now! ;)
    Benedizione Vita: I hope I'm not sleeping ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you using "Sparkle" or some other program to get here Eden?
    Storm Nordwind: Not all the time Benedizione! ;)
    Storm Nordwind: I think she's sharing her Wifi with most of Uttar Pradesh ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: that would do it
    stevenaia Michinaga: until she returns
    EdenFromIndiaSmall_002.jpgstevenaia Michinaga: interesting, the shadow of her pillow remains
    Storm Nordwind: or the cleaner has vacuumed up the bytes
    Storm Nordwind: All part of the magic Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: Alice's little rabbit hole here
    doug Sosa: curioser and curioser
    Storm Nordwind: Getting her here at all and in a stable reliable place is remarkably hard when she has no graphics and no way of sitting on anything
    Storm Nordwind: The shadow is part of it
    doug Sosa: well done. amazing.
    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Eden
    Eden Haiku: Hi
    Eden Haiku: Tks for the pics Storm
    Storm Nordwind: You're most welcome :)
    Storm Nordwind: Speak louder Eden... you breaking updsadyusb *&*&#@bdssd/.... ;)
    Eden Haiku: Who is the guy in yellow-white out fit?
    Storm Nordwind: That's you Bene
    doug Sosa: how can you see that on oh.
    Eden Haiku: Recognized you and Steve and Doug
    Eden Haiku: Hi Bene
    stevenaia Michinaga: yellow?, more of a beige here
    Benedizione Vita: hi Eden
    Eden Haiku: No visuals but Storm sent me pics on email
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was asking, are you using "Sparkle" to get here Eden?
    Eden Haiku: Yes Sparkle and the guy at the Wifi is amazed!
    doug Sosa: ah sure. i'd never be sherlock holmes :(
    stevenaia Michinaga: do the know of SL there?
    Eden Haiku: Keeps looking over my shoulder when is not vacuuming :)))
    Storm Nordwind: hahaha!
    Storm Nordwind waves to the vacuum guy
    Eden Haiku: SL no i would not think so
    doug Sosa: i must go at the bell.
    Storm Nordwind: Did we have a topic by the way? I came in rather late.
    Eden Haiku: Bye doug!
    stevenaia Michinaga: Doug and I were talking about urban development and a project I am currently working, thought of more local participation, a bit of my reality :)
    Eden Haiku: A food market Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: new food markets are rare in urban centers these days
    stevenaia Michinaga: ie, no one wants to do them
    Storm Nordwind: What are you defining as a food market? Stalls?
    Eden Haiku: Why, too much work?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a grocery store
    stevenaia Michinaga: no the current model is suburban
    Storm Nordwind: like a supermarket?
    Eden Haiku: (Vacuum guy is happily waving back !)
    Storm Nordwind: hehe
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but smaller, relatively
    stevenaia Michinaga: less parking
    Storm Nordwind: You still get them in the UK
    stevenaia Michinaga: housing above
    Eden Haiku: Food markets would make urban environment much more friendly.
    Storm Nordwind: They are usually converted from existing stores
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, you wouldn;t need to drive out of town to get your groceries
    stevenaia Michinaga: as you do now
    Storm Nordwind: They usually only serve office workers though that work in the city centers
    stevenaia Michinaga: (here at least)
    Eden Haiku: Less cars and more conversations with farmers selling their produce.
    stevenaia Michinaga: there are many undeserved families in towns that this would benefit
    Eden Haiku: They still have this in France.
    Storm Nordwind: On the other hand we still have many food shops in the center of smaller towns
    Storm Nordwind: Yes in most of Europe Eden
    Storm Nordwind: But then in Europe people are used to walking around their town centers and not driving everywhere
    stevenaia Michinaga: and are much more dense
    Eden Haiku: My citta ideale would be without cars...
    stevenaia Michinaga: the problem of the states, so much outward sprawl
    Storm Nordwind: I think it's exaggerated Steve. They talk about it here in Denver but it's no worse than in Europe
    Storm Nordwind: The problem is there are no district community shops
    Storm Nordwind: only local malls that are drivable only
    Storm Nordwind: Those shopping areas not only serve people but give a sense of community
    Storm Nordwind: *community
    stevenaia Michinaga: the malls become the single use shopping districts
    stevenaia Michinaga: no community in single use anything
    Storm Nordwind: But the malls don't have the same community sense because all the outlets are too big. The shopkeeper does not know everyone!
    stevenaia Michinaga: an unfortunate side affect of not living nearby
    Storm Nordwind: (and who wants a dozen shops that same all the same sort of tacky looking clothes?;) (in the larger malls)
    Storm Nordwind: *sell
    stevenaia Michinaga: ask all those in the mall, Storm
    stevenaia Michinaga: the brainwashed, another topic doug and I touched on earlier
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... are these the same people who watch the Superbowl especially for the ads? ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: wouldn;t want to buy the wrong chips, would I
    Storm Nordwind: hahaha!!
    Storm Nordwind: what would my friends think?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Alukina
    stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to come and dismount
    Benedizione Vita: what was that sound?
    stevenaia Michinaga: what did you hear Bene
    Benedizione Vita: big splash
    Storm Nordwind: We forgive easily here :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: and rarely anger
    Storm Nordwind waves

    Local news and weather in the background

    stevenaia Michinaga: eeek, 12"-18" of snow coming
    Storm Nordwind: to where?
    stevenaia Michinaga: EAST, on top of the 9" we got this weekend
    Storm Nordwind: It's been snowing lightly all day here. But our big falls were last year - so far. (4ft in some places)
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you have a topic? Storm
    stevenaia Michinaga: or Bene
    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Eden
    Storm Nordwind: Eden keeps reincarnating! :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Benedizione Vita: well, time for me to stop napping and get some sleep soon :)
    Benedizione Vita: goodnight, all
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Bene
    Eden Haiku: Hey electricity shut down for wifi but i could read my mail
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Bene
    Eden Haiku: Bye Bene
    Storm Nordwind: I have no topic really, and perhaps it is late anyway
    stevenaia Michinaga: what time is it where you are Eden?
    Eden Haiku: I m early morning Tuesday
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be going, night all
    stevenaia Michinaga: have a good day Eden
    Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Steve
    Eden Haiku: Will ask about taxi for Sarnath as soon as the israeli women book their trip to Pushkar
    Eden Haiku: Bye Steve
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Eden Haiku: Lots of things happening at the same time here.
    Eden Haiku: They are bringing tea now
    Storm Nordwind: black no sugar for me please :)
    Eden Haiku: I have been drinking black tea cause masala tea was too rich
    Storm Nordwind: I can imagine!
    Eden Haiku: They know nothing of 1% milk over here:)So much survival...
    Storm Nordwind: 1% milk is not milk! I'm still trying to find real double cream for coffee here (50% fat) and I have to make do with heavy whipping cream (35%)
    Eden Haiku: It is!!!
    Storm Nordwind: noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
    Eden Haiku: Yeeessss
    Storm Nordwind: That's just chalk in water!
    Eden Haiku: Fun arguing with you over time lines!
    Storm Nordwind: hehehe!
    Storm Nordwind: Do you get the bell message?
    Eden Haiku: Yes no sound but in chat
    Storm Nordwind: right
    Eden Haiku: Intense negotiation in here...
    Eden Haiku: The Indian man is very proud and adamant.
    Eden Haiku: The women are scared of being in a taxi for 1000 kilometers...
    Storm Nordwind: Whoa... er... yes, I can understand that
    Storm Nordwind: They must really want to get there
    Eden Haiku: India is based on trust...
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, after Eden says bye to me, your text dropped off the log storm
    Storm Nordwind: Odd - and it's still recording
    Eden Haiku: Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: can you send it to to me storm
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, Eden I;m back
    Storm Nordwind: My lister is there, floating by my head
    Storm Nordwind: *listener
    stevenaia Michinaga: it looked like eden was talking to herself
    stevenaia Michinaga: strange it just re-appeared in the log
    Eden Haiku: Tea time want some chai Steve?
    Storm Nordwind: mmmmmmmm chai
    stevenaia Michinaga: never mind, that often happens, things fix themselves
    stevenaia Michinaga: chai will make me fat
    Eden Haiku: It is the real one Storm very rich milk...
    Storm Nordwind: Real milk? Wonderful :)
    Eden Haiku: No Steve it is. Tiny tiny cup
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh, ok then
    Eden Haiku: Glass rather
    Eden Haiku: Israeli accent is so beautiful
    stevenaia Michinaga: night again
    Storm Nordwind waves
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy your trip Eden
    Eden Haiku: These 3 blonde young Israeli are really good negotiators , nite Steve sleep tight!
    Storm Nordwind: And Steve leaves in his unique and customary fashion...
    Eden Haiku: Flying?
    Storm Nordwind: Stepping into the pool and flying up through the occulus
    Eden Haiku: Oh yes I remember now.
    Storm Nordwind: I'm so sorry Eden... I have to be very rude and leave you too now. I'm absolutely delighted to see you though! :)
    Eden Haiku: It was lots of fun reading the guardian session about the cat's name.
    Storm Nordwind: I was soooooo sleepy
    Eden Haiku: Np storm was sonice to see yiu
    Eden Haiku: Sweet dreams!
    Storm Nordwind: Take care dear friend!
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Eden Haiku: Waving back
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    Originally written on 10:46, 13 Feb 2010
    Re lines dropping out of the chatlog: I assume that Stevenaia was looking at the database "live" as the session progresses. That gives a false impression of what was recorded, since people's lines are not transmitted immediately, but bundled up to packages of around 1.5kb (to reduce network traffic = lag). That is why Storm's latest lines were missing at one time but present later on.
    Posted 14:18, 9 Apr 2010
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