2010.02.15 19:00 - What is Mind

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

I was joined by Lawrence Vyceratops and Archmage Atlantis this evening. I claimed the log as no other host arrived.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello, Stevenaia. How do you pronounce that?
stevenaia Michinaga: you don't, it's Steven AIA
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, several times, now.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Archmage
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Steven, hello Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Archmage.
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: I see you are new to SL, how did you fund this group?
Lawrence Vyceratops: The SL search bar. :)
Archmage Atlantis: I am glad you have returned to this place Lawrence
stevenaia Michinaga: *find
stevenaia Michinaga: funding come later...grins
Archmage Atlantis: Whatever magic works :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you, Archmage. I am glad to be here.
Lawrence Vyceratops: haha sM
stevenaia Michinaga: SM?
Lawrence Vyceratops: I missed the typo joke and just noticed it. I was referring to your name.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I'll just call you steven... without the aia
stevenaia Michinaga: I know , AIA is a professional title of sorts
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, the bell did not ring at 7:00
Lawrence Vyceratops: *ding*
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: np ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Listening to Johnny Cash, Foslsum Prison
stevenaia Michinaga: sets timer for a minute
stevenaia Michinaga: <<>
Lawrence Vyceratops: Who would like to begin?
stevenaia Michinaga: I am ready to listen :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Haha
stevenaia Michinaga: sometime the beginning happens just at the appropriate time
stevenaia Michinaga: can you give us your impression of you time thus far, Lawrence
stevenaia Michinaga: *your
Lawrence Vyceratops: Of PaB?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: what keeps you returning?
Lawrence Vyceratops: It's interesting, to me, and I'm glad that the organization exists.
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I enjoy having discussions about what I believe the original exploration/experiment was.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Exploration into the question of what IS.
stevenaia Michinaga: you mean taking a moment to explore reality outside looking in?
stevenaia Michinaga: and inside looking out
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean by that?
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: there was a very early exercise we do here simply stated as YSBS, you see, being sees, where you take the 9 seconds or 90 seconds and see Being from your viewpoint and then take the perspective of "Being" seeing
stevenaia Michinaga: it offers an opportunity to play with your view of reality
stevenaia Michinaga: and of what Being is
Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you saying that YS is looking at things subjectively and BS is looking at things objectively?
stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose that depends of who and what is doing the looking
stevenaia Michinaga: but it can be
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean by that?
stevenaia Michinaga: when you playing with Being seeing, it mean different things to each of us
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, we must try to be clear on what we are saying.
stevenaia Michinaga: bit is usually alters your perspective or viewpoint
Archmage Atlantis: Lawrence...I have not seen Steve challenge another as he is doing to you
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean, Archmage?
Archmage Atlantis: That challenge is respect
stevenaia Michinaga: I am not not challenging, just explaining that reality is relative
stevenaia Michinaga: the explanation is what we come here for
Lawrence Vyceratops: I feel we are having a serious dialogue, where we attempt to understand one another.
stevenaia Michinaga: clarify for one person can be quite a fog to another
stevenaia Michinaga: word only become clear over time, I could not have had this conversation when I began coming here almost 2 years ago
stevenaia Michinaga: but I am intrigued by listening and understanding and have learned much
stevenaia Michinaga: but my typing has not improved
stevenaia Michinaga: the only challenge I find here is learning from others and myself
Archmage Atlantis: Vyseraops is a dinosaur like name
Archmage Atlantis: You chose it
stevenaia Michinaga: it does help to bring an open mind :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: haha Nice moves.
stevenaia Michinaga: I have had some very insightful 90 second moments here
Lawrence Vyceratops: Can we discuss YSBS some more?
stevenaia Michinaga: but I can never march the energy of Archmage dance steps
stevenaia Michinaga: sure, in 3 minutes there will be another 90 second break
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes.
stevenaia Michinaga: why don;t you try it
Lawrence Vyceratops: I am familiar with that part of it.
stevenaia Michinaga: there is also much written about it on the wiki
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it's like a recurring dream for me
stevenaia Michinaga: like space folding inside out when I change from YS to BS
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hmmm...
Lawrence Vyceratops: Quite metaphorical.
stevenaia Michinaga: I see from inside me looking out...... then I am the outside looking at me
stevenaia Michinaga: of course I am the inside and the outside
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Again, you talking about subjectively seeing and objectively seeing?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, in our discussion, we should try to see objectively. Would you agree?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: are you saying as an object or without precondition "objectively"
Lawrence Vyceratops: Without precondition.
stevenaia Michinaga: I thought so but good to check

Lawrence Vyceratops: So, often comes the question of what is mind...
stevenaia Michinaga: wiggle words
Lawrence Vyceratops: ...shall we explore that?
Archmage Atlantis: Eating cornmeal muffins
stevenaia Michinaga: and what is reality?
Archmage Atlantis: taste good
stevenaia Michinaga: is the mind part of it or just an observer
stevenaia Michinaga: wants some please, Arch
Lawrence Vyceratops: what separates?
stevenaia Michinaga: well reality could still exist without the mind seeing it (but who would care?)
stevenaia Michinaga: asking the question may be enough to make it matter
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure there will ever be an answer to the question
stevenaia Michinaga: "What is mind"
Lawrence Vyceratops: But, perhaps, we could find an agreement in our talk tonight.
stevenaia Michinaga: sure
stevenaia Michinaga: listens....
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, often we refer to mind as something that thinks. What else do we consider mind? Something that senses. What else?
stevenaia Michinaga: sees
Lawrence Vyceratops: Is the body also mind?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, but it is more of like a tree without a mind
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, sometimes, we say that the mind "senses" but our nervous system is the body.
Archmage Atlantis: Yikea... the body and the mind are joined
stevenaia Michinaga: it's all "plugged in" to the mond
stevenaia Michinaga: mind
Archmage Atlantis: Just with different responsibility
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, does the mind do the thinking and the sensing, like we generally think of it?
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: not the sensing, just the accumulating (processing) of the senses
Archmage Atlantis: The mind does Lawrence, but the mind is divided into parts
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, the mind thinks but does not sense?
stevenaia Michinaga: if the mind is (or lives in) the brain, yes,
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, what does it mean to sense?
Archmage Atlantis: Need to redefine mind
stevenaia Michinaga: you need an eye to see, a nose to smell
Lawrence Vyceratops: No, Archmage, we don't need to define it, we just need to discover it, I think. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: and the mind to think
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, stimuli comes into contact with the body...
Lawrence Vyceratops: ...and all sorts of chemical changes occur, sending signals to the brain, where the brain processes these signals...
stevenaia Michinaga: the mind to empathize
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Noone
Lawrence Vyceratops: ... and this process is a thinking process... thinking about what is sensed?
stevenaia Michinaga: certainly to start with
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, are we saying that, rather than an object, like the brain, mind is actually a process?
stevenaia Michinaga: a process taking place in a specific location (brain)
Lawrence Vyceratops: A thinking process.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Lawrence Vyceratops: A system of thoughts?
stevenaia Michinaga: a system?
stevenaia Michinaga: who's system?
Lawrence Vyceratops: The process.
stevenaia Michinaga: it does seem to have structure at times
Lawrence Vyceratops: Right, let's have a look.
stevenaia Michinaga: a look?
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, the idea of the process is of the mind, but the actual process itself is the mind. Is that what we agree to?
stevenaia Michinaga: thinking
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps, if we can agree to what is mind, we can discuss awareness.
stevenaia Michinaga: no sure that will simplify much, but yes, without the process with the mind, there is, once again, only a tree trunk, so yes I agree
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, is the mind aware?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, noone.
noone Dover: hi
noone Dover: im new...
stevenaia Michinaga: welcome noone, we record our conversations ere, is it ok to include you?
noone Dover: here and don't know how to use the sl
noone Dover: yeah~
Lawrence Vyceratops: The conversations are recorded and posted on a weblog.
stevenaia Michinaga: here is a little information about our group
noone Dover: go on..
noone Dover: may i ask some questions..
stevenaia Michinaga: always
Lawrence Vyceratops: Feel free :)
noone Dover: thanks... and my english is poor..
noone Dover: my first language is not english..
noone Dover: so can you tell me
noone Dover: where are you from?
Lawrence Vyceratops: US.
noone Dover: aha~
stevenaia Michinaga: Eastern US
noone Dover: aha~
--BELL--
noone Dover: Looking good!
noone Dover: amazing...
Lawrence Vyceratops: What's amazing, noone?
noone Dover: everything is secondlife..
noone Dover: in
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes :)
noone Dover: everything in secondlife..
noone Dover: aha~
noone Dover: like foreignal..
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, much to explore
noone Dover: i come from china..
Lawrence Vyceratops: What brought you to Play as Being?
noone Dover: my friend
Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, so you are somewhat familiar with it?
noone Dover: yeah..
noone Dover: aha...
noone Dover: are you new here?
noone Dover: i don't know how to change my hair..
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, I have been here several times already, though.
noone Dover: i am too ugly now...
Lawrence Vyceratops: We were just discussing "what is mind," to try to see if we could come to an agreement.
stevenaia Michinaga: there are places to get new hair
stevenaia Michinaga: places
noone Dover: i am sorry..
Lawrence Vyceratops: It costs money to "buy" your appearances. :)
noone Dover: but i have no money...
stevenaia Michinaga: there are free places
Lawrence Vyceratops: Your hair looks fine to me.
stevenaia Michinaga: in time you will find these places
Lawrence Vyceratops: What is your interest in PaB, noone?
stevenaia Michinaga: unfortunately, I must be going, I will be hosting on Wednesday Lawrence if you want to continue
stevenaia Michinaga: pleasure meeting you
Lawrence Vyceratops: I have to work nights. But sometimes I make the 1AM meetings... sometimes.
Lawrence Vyceratops: You, too, Steven.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, the europeans are a lively bunch at the 1:00 am session
stevenaia Michinaga: hope to see you again soon
Lawrence Vyceratops: take care