2010.02.16 01:00 - The demure cushion

The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

After a while on my own Archmage Atlantis joined me. He had some problems with the seating.

Wester Kiranov: hi arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Wester
Archmage Atlantis: Um. picked the demure cushion again
Wester Kiranov: demure?
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Legs to the side and crossed
Archmage Atlantis: Touching it will not change that
Wester Kiranov: i thought all blue cushions were the same. let me try

I tried the cushion he just left. Everything worked fine for me, but apperently not for him.

Wester Kiranov: just click on it to change position
Archmage Atlantis: Done that a couple of dozen times

Then Lawrence Vyceratops came in as well. First a bit of chitchat, getting to know each other a bit better.

Wester Kiranov: hi lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello Wester, Archmage.
Archmage Atlantis: It will not change for me....we are all unique
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Lawrence
Wester Kiranov: is it just this one cushion that doesn't like you? ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: Yep....and I often pick it
Wester Kiranov: weird
Archmage Atlantis: I like blue cushions, don't know why
Wester Kiranov: i like the red ones, I prefer the seating positions they have
Archmage Atlantis: I wouldn't say it doesn't like me...it just will not bend to my will :)
Archmage Atlantis: It confronts me, I suppose
Wester Kiranov: Lawrence, have you taken a look at the PaB website yet?
Lawrence Vyceratops: You mean the wiki pages?
Lawrence Vyceratops: or the Kira Institute?
Wester Kiranov: yes, the wiki, and the description of the 9-second practice
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes. :)
Wester Kiranov: Did you try it? How do you like it?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I kinda do it already....
Wester Kiranov: that's good
Archmage Atlantis: Wester, do you listen to the Pandora website
Wester Kiranov: i don't even know what it is
--BELL--
Lawrence Vyceratops: Internet radio.
Archmage Atlantis: It is the outcome of the project to catagorize all existing music
Wester Kiranov: I actually prefer silence, most of the time. And my husband likes music, so i don't really need more of it.
Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
Wester Kiranov: but it does sound interseting, nevertheless
Lawrence Vyceratops: I know what you mean, Wester. ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes my ex prefers silence also
Archmage Atlantis: His mind is busy all the time
Archmage Atlantis: To organize his thoughts is why he writes books
Wester Kiranov: my mind isn't organized enough to start writing a book :-)
Archmage Atlantis: Well he doesn't see it the way I do
Archmage Atlantis: He sees it as a flow
Wester Kiranov: and how do you see it?
Archmage Atlantis: As disorganized
Archmage Atlantis: Yet it is beautiful
Archmage Atlantis: It is some thing I am not
Lawrence Vyceratops: Where are you guys, geographically speaking?
Wester Kiranov: The Netherlands
Archmage Atlantis: SW FL, US
Archmage Atlantis: Your turn
Lawrence Vyceratops: Mississippi, US
Archmage Atlantis: How is Misisspi differernt from The Netherlands?
Lawrence Vyceratops: How do you guys spend your time in RL? I do tattoos and have a studio.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I have never been to the Netherlands...
Wester Kiranov: i actually have a tattoo, but it's over 20 years old now :-)
Wester Kiranov: i am the mother of three-year-old twins, which takes a lot of time. and i want to start working making subtitles for tv, soon.
Lawrence Vyceratops: That's an interesting ambition. :)
Wester Kiranov: it's not an ambition at all :-) it's a job
Lawrence Vyceratops: Do you do that from home?
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I will do it from home. But some people work at the tv studio, for news etc.

And then Lawrence had a deeper question to ask. The conversation unrolled naturally from there.

Lawrence Vyceratops: What brings you to PaB, Wester?
Lawrence Vyceratops: What brings you, Archmage?
Wester Kiranov: always good to be asked that question from time to time - and to see your own answer change
Archmage Atlantis: Intelligent thought
Wester Kiranov: An atmosphere of curiosity.
Wester Kiranov: And i'm interested in the workings of the mind
Lawrence Vyceratops: I come to discuss the topic of mind and being with others.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I meet a lot of people in RL, but I have to come here to discuss these things. haha
Lawrence Vyceratops: No one is concerned, or at least not seriously concerned.
Archmage Atlantis: there are very few in rl that see this path
Wester Kiranov: or if they are seriously concerned, they make it a purely academic thought game
Lawrence Vyceratops: Precisely, Wester.
Archmage Atlantis: ty westor
Lawrence Vyceratops: It's sad news, Archmage. I wonder why people are so unconcerned.
Archmage Atlantis: most follow, few lead
Lawrence Vyceratops: It's that animal part of our brains. ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Perhaps
Wester Kiranov: i think many people genuinely do not see what we are so concerned about
Archmage Atlantis: Or perhaps it is a system that works often
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps, they catch a glimpse of it and it frightens them away! :O
Wester Kiranov: or they catch a glimpse and just dismiss it, barely noticing
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why is it important to us?
Archmage Atlantis: oracle, seer, prophet...
Wester Kiranov: and we are the weirdos that choose to follow those glimpses
Wester Kiranov: because they seem to say something essential
Lawrence Vyceratops: There seems to be a pressing problem, and perhaps, we see that the solution may lie in the mind itself?
Lawrence Vyceratops: I am speaking of the problem of so much confusion in the war and all the violence and war. That is a pressing problem.
--BELL--
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps, ones like us see that the solution is not "out there" but with the mind.
Lawrence Vyceratops: *in the world
Wester Kiranov: *sigh*
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why the sigh?
Wester Kiranov: war, violence. it's there. it's true.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, and people that I meet on a daily basis are not too concerned with this problem or what might be the cause.
Wester Kiranov: the cause, or causes...
Lawrence Vyceratops: Would you say that the mind causes the problems?
Wester Kiranov: yes, but that's so general as to say nothing about it at all.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, it's a starting point. First, we locate the source of the problem, right?
Wester Kiranov: i think miscommunication is a large part, both on personal and cultual scale
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, absolutely.
Archmage Atlantis: The solar system is large
Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
Wester Kiranov: you need some stubborn people, too
Lawrence Vyceratops: I agree that communication is a very big problem.
Lawrence Vyceratops: For instance, we rarely define the terms we use in speech...
Archmage Atlantis: The galaxy is larger
Lawrence Vyceratops: Although we all have access to dictionaries, we seldom check the definitions between one another.
Wester Kiranov: we can't define them. the mind doesn't work that way
Archmage Atlantis: Thye universe Is beyound imaginging
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, what I'm saying is that we use terms that we don't check the definitions of. For instance...
Wester Kiranov: you can never know all the biases and presuppositions people have
Archmage Atlantis: The mult-verse, well that is a comic book
Lawrence Vyceratops: I can point to the bushes, over there, and you can see them and know which bushes. We have clarified the definition of "bushes."
Wester Kiranov: they are not bushes, they are groups of pixels
Lawrence Vyceratops: Exactly, Wester, that is why dialogue is necessary - to find out more about the presuppositions and such.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, technically speaking, they are pixels.
Archmage Atlantis: Nice Wester
Lawrence Vyceratops: But we can still see them. We, in fact, are referring to them as bushes.
Wester Kiranov: so - how do you know whether we are speaking technically or not?
Lawrence Vyceratops: And you also knew which bushes I meant.
Lawrence Vyceratops: This is not the case, when we start speaking of the mind and awareness and such.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Often, we are talking about very different things.
Wester Kiranov: right. language shows its inadequacies very clearly on those subjects
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I'm not sure if language is inadequate. Perhaps, it our understanding is merely mistaken.
Archmage Atlantis: Or the same things with different understandig
Wester Kiranov: it's not inadequate in general, only if we use it the wrong way
Lawrence Vyceratops: Sometimes, that is the case, Archmage.
Archmage Atlantis: Define wrong, pls
Wester Kiranov: mu
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, how do we go about meeting eye-to-eye on these topics? How can we come to the "same ground" in speech, as we come to the same ground to meet?
Wester Kiranov: there is no surefire way to understand each other.
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: just be open, aware. know that you can say opposite things and mean the same. or say the same and mean opposite things
Lawrence Vyceratops: Suppose there is deliberation on the definitions...
Wester Kiranov: guys, this was a very wonderful conversation, but I have to go and practice subtitling now.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Alrighty, Wester. It was nice talking with you and Archmage.
Archmage Atlantis: AGEE]
Wester Kiranov: i've been here for an hour and a half now, that's enough for today.
Wester Kiranov: namaste
Lawrence Vyceratops: Take care. :)