2011.08.25 07:00 - Advice from the peanut gallery

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

Dash Earthboy: hey Sam
oO0Oo Resident: Yay, Hi Dash
--BELL--
Dash Earthboy: 's up with you this morning?
Dash Earthboy: i'm just finishing breakfast
oO0Oo Resident: Just read a comment on the logs by Arch that I thought insightful
Dash Earthboy: oh?
oO0Oo Resident: ah Breakfast.. yes
Dash Earthboy: hey Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys
Dash Earthboy: greetings from Loveland :)
Storm Nordwind waves
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Storm
oO0Oo Resident: Yes Dash here is the comment from Arch:

Sam tells us of the comment she found insightful.

oO0Oo Resident: Archmage Atlantis says: For what it is worth: In my experience, in American English the pronoun "you" is often a source of confusion and mutual misunderstanding. "You" is often used in the general sense of ppl in general, yet understood by the listening individual as applying to that individual directly.
Dash Earthboy: i understand that...it's kinda old news to me
Storm Nordwind: What was the context Sam?
Dash Earthboy: reminds me of a news commentator this morning trying to waive another's responsibility for a dangerous traffic collision
Dash Earthboy: i hold ppl responsible for what they say
Dash Earthboy: hey Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Dash Earthboy: hey Boots
Boots Danitz: morning ppl
Storm Nordwind: Hello
Dash Earthboy: "You" is not a synonym for "everybody else" nor "us"
oO0Oo Resident: Thanks for asking Storm. The context was: PaB Wiki: 2011.08.23 07:00 - Listening to Meaning or Words? http://is.gd/mOwprz
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Boots, Hi Yaku

Questioning compassion.

Dash Earthboy: i was thinking this morning "at what point does compassion for someone degrade the more general quality of life?"
Dash Earthboy: very good local example in the local news today
Dash Earthboy: hey Fc
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi fc
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Storm, O, Dash and Yakuzza
Storm Nordwind: Ah thank you Sam - I see it was a comment on the log, not a comment in the log.
Storm Nordwind: Hi there fc
oO0Oo Resident: Hi FcSeeker
Dash Earthboy: "what I meant" and "good intentions" has been used by too many tyrants to be a viable excuse for bad behavior IMHO
FcSeeker Resident: <3
FcSeeker Resident: and by people who dont care and dont think their deeds before doing...
FcSeeker Resident: met such deeds in my RL lately more and more by the neighbours who dont care
Storm Nordwind: But what if someone has a good intention but is technically incapabale of fulfilling it and all goes awry?
Dash Earthboy: at what point does compassion for that person lead to worse quality of life for others, Storm?
FcSeeker Resident: such I've met more from those people who call themself as 'lightworkers' than anything else...
FcSeeker Resident: so that only creates more suffereing to people who truly care
FcSeeker Resident: yet
FcSeeker Resident: more and more it's also come true that sad things have come to be benefit to good things
Dash Earthboy: the local news story of a boy hit by car on his way to school yesterday serves as great example of misplaced compasssion for "mistakes"
--BELL--

"Can one limit compassion?"

Storm Nordwind: Why would one limit compassion to those who suffer and exclude it from those who cause suffering?
Dash Earthboy: because enabling someone to cause unnecessary suffering is "bad" Storm
FcSeeker Resident: ...can one limit compassion...
Dash Earthboy: serioously, I don't understand the concept of justifying enabling evil
Storm Nordwind: Compassion does not justify anything. It simply recognizes suffering and the possibility of future suffering as a consequence of present actions.
Dash Earthboy: exactly, but justifying compassion for one causing suffering disregards the second half of your equation
FcSeeker Resident: ...so many times bad behavior is 'only' cry for help...
oO0Oo Resident: *
FcSeeker Resident: I've also have seen many 'cases' lately how evil person's have calmed down cuz got compassion; not 'bad' given back as they have expected...
FcSeeker Resident: in RL...
FcSeeker Resident: hi sonu
Dash Earthboy: yes, Fc, and likewise my opinions are based on RL experience

A personal worldview.

Storm Nordwind: In my world view, causing suffering to others is simply a prelude to one's own suffering. It's called karma. Thus one can have compassion for evil-doers because you can see exactly what they will suffer as they are doing it now. And since we cannot see the original cause usually of someone's suffering, it leads one not to be selective on who one has compassion for.
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3
Dash Earthboy: Storm, I've been a store detective and transportation inspector
Dash Earthboy: dangerous people need to be stopped to avoid their karma spreading to harm more
Storm Nordwind: Sure. So?
Dash Earthboy: if you face such forces, then tell me about "prelude to one's own suffering" when I'm stopping otherrs from causing suffering, y'know?
Storm Nordwind: I think you may possibly be confusing compassion with letting people off! :)
Dash Earthboy: not from the way you're describing it :)
Dash Earthboy: or is this a "what I meant" moment ? :)
Storm Nordwind shrugs

Losing cards.

oO0Oo Resident: Cool shirt Yaku.. The design looks almost like one of Xirana's paintings.. Could that be true?
Yakuzza Lethecus: when i was in spain i saw a pickpocketing, the thief got chased by the guy whom he had stolen from but the thieve got away after throwing creditcards and the content in all directions, i was thinking of the effects it had to me since it was our first day in spain and never had seen such a thing before in my life
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i was thinking on the feeling of security after actually having seen such a thing
FcSeeker Resident: my friend just lost his walletbook because he forgot to lock the door of his car...all cards he had was in it...
Yakuzza Lethecus: how the damage was caused to everyone
Storm Nordwind: Our actions and non-actions have far reaching effects.
FcSeeker Resident: we came to conclution that it's time for him to meet all of the officers he's needed to meet because of the need to get new cards...
FcSeeker Resident: needs
FcSeeker Resident: (he needs to meet)
FcSeeker Resident: can you understand this kind of way of thinking ?
Storm Nordwind: Yes fc
FcSeeker Resident: <3
--BELL--

"Advice from the peanut gallery."

Dash Earthboy: here's a quote for y'all: "as a gladiator, I've come to abhor morality advice from the peanut gallery crying 'put up your sword' from the safety of their seats. Get down here in the dust with me and then offer your advice."
Storm Nordwind: Empathy is a difficult task for some people.
Dash Earthboy: yes
Dash Earthboy: even for those desiriing to acquire it
Storm Nordwind: Indeed
Dash Earthboy: i've met many with no such desire
FcSeeker Resident: each one is only one person
FcSeeker Resident: brb
Dash Earthboy: yes, Fc, just one set of butterfly wings :)
Storm Nordwind: There are those who desire not to have empathy, and also many who do not know the benefits of empathy and therefore have not yet kindled a desire for it.
Storm Nordwind remembers an old story about the difference between sympathy and empathy
Dash Earthboy: Yes, Storm, I know many who despise homeless people
Dash Earthboy: even just indigent people
Dash Earthboy: while I remember Phil Ochs and sing his song "There But for Fortune"
oO0Oo Resident listens for the meaning behind the words
FcSeeker Resident: b
Dash Earthboy: wb Fc
oO0Oo Resident: wb Fc
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes ; sry; for the surprise visitors I accedently pressed enter for not completed sentence
FcSeeker Resident: ; so each one can help only limeted amount
Dash Earthboy: yes, Fc, like the butterfly :)
FcSeeker Resident: to some people that limit is even less than own family
FcSeeker Resident: **

Judgments and opinions.

Storm Nordwind: However, I have to say I neither judge the suffering nor those who criticize the suffering, nor those who appear not to help them. I do not know all the personal circumstances behind any of these people, and do not know the whole story. I can never judge.
Dash Earthboy: Sam, I also sing "Billy Rose Trilogy" and Jackson Browne's "Boulevard"...these songs have straightforward words & meanings
Dash Earthboy: Storm, there is much good in using "good judgement"
Dash Earthboy: i have also sat on superior court and federal court juries and so I do judge
Storm Nordwind: And there is much good in knowing the limits and often the futility of judgment.
Dash Earthboy: Storm, that philosophy can be expanded to "the futility of life"
Storm Nordwind: Why?
Storm Nordwind: Hello Susan
Dash Earthboy: calling something "futile" is an opinion, not a fact
Storm Nordwind: Same with judgments
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: hi Susan
iwandertoo Resident: waves
iwandertoo Resident: hi fc
Dash Earthboy: the judgement of identifying someone as a thief is not merely opinion, sry
Dash Earthboy: hey Susan

"Old man."

oO0Oo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVC2cszdTao
iwandertoo Resident: hi dash
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey susan
iwandertoo Resident: hi yakuzza
Dash Earthboy: nice rendition of "Old Man" Sam :)
Dash Earthboy: Sam, I've run into ppl who respond to me the way Lynyrd Skynerd responded to Neil Young "southern man"
Dash Earthboy: "a southern man don't need him 'round anyhow."
Dash Earthboy: ie, "you're no better than us" as if that's the point :(
oO0Oo Resident: we all want to be loved and accepted for who we are... IMO
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Sam. never heard that song before.
Dash Earthboy: ya, that's what Khadafy has said, Sam
FcSeeker Resident: natural needs to all of the people imo
oO0Oo Resident: fathers and sons and... forgiveness
Dash Earthboy: welcome to my world, Storm :)
Dash Earthboy: i do much Neil Young in my repertoire
Dash Earthboy: keeps me searching for a heart of gold....

Tara arrives.

FcSeeker Resident: hi tara
taramudra Resident: hi susan
Dash Earthboy: hey taramudra
taramudra Resident: hi dash
iwandertoo Resident: waves
taramudra Resident: hi everyone
Storm Nordwind: Hi Tara. Please excuse me for asking, but have you been here before?
taramudra Resident: yes not very frecuently though
Storm Nordwind: Ah... I asked because our sessions here are recorded and then published on the web. Just wanted to check we had your permission to publish your words. :)
Dash Earthboy: well, at your age tara, that's not surprising :)
taramudra Resident: yes i know, txs for telling, its ok with me :)
Storm Nordwind smiles - thank you Tara :)
taramudra Resident: no prob
Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go, nice to see everyone

As the hour comes up, I need to leave. But everyone goes anyway.

Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me gentlefolk... I am not fully recovered from a recent illness and shall retire back to bed. I'll pick up the log and post it later.
FcSeeker Resident: waves to Yaku
--BELL--
iwandertoo Resident: waves
taramudra Resident: have a nice day
FcSeeker Resident: sleep well Storm
oO0Oo Resident: Good to see yu Storm.. Bye Yaku
taramudra Resident: cya guys! come back later
Dash Earthboy: bye Storm
oO0Oo Resident: time to move on for me as well
Dash Earthboy: bye Sam
FcSeeker Resident: waves to O
Dash Earthboy: bye Tara
FcSeeker Resident: <3
oO0Oo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh44QPT1mPE
iwandertoo Resident: waves
oO0Oo Resident: best to you all!
Dash Earthboy: bye Yaku
Dash Earthboy: guess I should also be off on some errands before we break the heat record here again today
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Dash Earthboy: pax et bonum y'all :)
FcSeeker Resident: wish you to get better day than so far
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
iwandertoo Resident: waves