2012.04.23 07:00 - Equanimity and Inner Peach

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel :) Odd time for you to be on....
Korel Laloix: Not feeling up to classes today.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, hope not another cold
Korel Laloix: Tummy and emotions today more than physical.
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to hear that
Korel Laloix: THanks.
Eliza Madrigal: good to take a break when necessary

Korel Laloix: What you up to today?
Eliza Madrigal: not too much atm... wishing I'd prepared more about 'equanimity'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: I have always wanted better balance in my life... and i think I have made some progress.
Korel Laloix: But I am not sure it is good goal.
Korel Laloix: Maybe a good consideration though.
Korel Laloix: If you are balanced, you do everytihng you do more efficiently..... so maybe it is a tool.
Eliza Madrigal: I agree...
Eliza Madrigal: which may be why to me they seem different things
Eliza Madrigal: when I think of being balanced I think of having things externally organized
Eliza Madrigal: getting done what I set out to do... priorities in line, people I cared for feeling tending to...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sun :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi all ;)
Korel Laloix: So you think more about internal things then?
Sunshine Vayandar: I am taking time to rez as usual
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: No hurries.
Sunshine Vayandar: ommmmm
Eliza Madrigal: I think so... like a quality brought into things
Sunshine Vayandar is listening to the chat

Eliza Madrigal: :) Korel and I were discussing balance and equanimity
Sunshine Vayandar: what is that last one ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :) ay there's the question, argh
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: the zulus demand en explanation
Sunshine Vayandar: an
Eliza Madrigal: haha

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: ;p

Korel Laloix: Balancing my life seems to be far more easy than balancing my mind.

Eliza Madrigal: well wiki gives you many to choose from... various traditions
Eliza Madrigal: http://bit.ly/J4H0UK
Eliza Madrigal: but I'm more interested in what our instinctual thoughts are
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Storm :)
Korel Laloix: I can get my life in order fairly easily, getting my brain in order is painful.
Sunshine Vayandar: Hi Storm ;)
Storm Nordwind: Hi!
Eliza Madrigal: right Korel... this is why it seems something different to me
Eliza Madrigal: (balance and equanimity) @ Storm :)
Korel Laloix: TO me this is a words point... but I see your distinction.

Eliza Madrigal: the Hindu framework for equanimity is along the lines of 'nonattached'
Eliza Madrigal: recognizing impermanence
Sunshine Vayandar is googling
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: in Buddhism I think it is one of the 'four abodes'
Korel Laloix: I don't understand that difference.

Eliza Madrigal: In lack of better terms, 'Equanimity' can be used to refer to any of the following terms such as Beingness, Undisturbed, Unattached. It should be recognized that 'Equanimity' does not refer to a state of mind, rather it describes our real nature. Sense of attachment or doership is always individual and operates at the level of Individual Identity or Ego. (from wiki)

Storm Nordwind: Sometimes called the four immeasurables, or the Brahmavihara
Eliza Madrigal: 'immeasureables'

Sunshine Vayandar: In Buddhism, equanimity (upekkhā, upekṣhā) is one of the four immeasurables and is considered: Neither a thought nor an emotion, it is rather the steady conscious realization of reality's transience. It is the ground for wisdom and freedom and the protector of compassion and love. While some may think of equanimity as dry neutrality or cool aloofness, mature equanimity produces a radiance and warmth of being. The Buddha described a mind filled with equanimity as "abundant, exalted, immeasurable, without hostility and without ill-will."[3]

Eliza Madrigal: ohhhh , excellent Sun
Eliza Madrigal: yes... a lively quality
Sunshine Vayandar: I learn so much here
Storm Nordwind smiles
Sunshine Vayandar: lively quality ;)
Eliza Madrigal: so balance could be part of equanimity... in a sense?
Sunshine Vayandar: I like this : a radiance and warmth of being
Eliza Madrigal: mmm yes
Storm Nordwind: Only if you are at the point of balance, and do not tip one way or the other, but provide the balance point yourself.
Sunshine Vayandar: balance point yourself ....sun is making notes
Eliza Madrigal: center of the wheel
Eliza Madrigal: :) Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Korel Laloix: I am trying to put together these ideas.

Storm Nordwind: A set of balances seems so fragile and will tip one way or the other at a gust of air. The fulcrum is rock solid and reliable.

Sunshine Vayandar: hi Bleuji ;)
Eliza Madrigal nods me too Korel
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Korel Laloix: That definition seems to be a dimention on the same concept.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Storm Nordwind: Good morning Bleu
Korel Laloix: WE talked about outward and inward.. maybe that is community balance?
Eliza Madrigal: there is something about balance being trying to make things even or manageable

Korel Laloix: Or spiritual balance.?
Eliza Madrigal: core balance
Storm Nordwind: With equanimity, there is no trying to balance. There is only being balanced.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: continuous
Korel Laloix: So it is not something you can work toward?
Eliza Madrigal: doing v being openness enlivening doing
Eliza Madrigal: ah, continuous

Bleu Oleander: is there a sense that we all have our own idea of what equanimity is and how it "feels"?
Storm Nordwind: Yes you can work towards it, but not from the outside, only from the inside. You don't strive for its side-effects; you become what it is.
Eliza Madrigal: it is a very particular and precise word I think
Korel Laloix: How can you work on it from teh outside? I don't understand what you mean by that.

Storm Nordwind: if you see what equanimity brings to people and aim for those things, that's like working from from the outside. It doesn't really work.
Korel Laloix: Or I should say, how can you work on anything internal from the outside?.. I think I am missing some language here.. sorry.
Bleu Oleander: I think there are different paths towards it
Korel Laloix: OH OK.. thanks.
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Korel Laloix: Internal vs external motivation maybe.
Bleu Oleander: I think there are things one can do on the outside to affect ones inside and vice versa, for me anyway
Eliza Madrigal: agree
Korel Laloix: Yes, it is easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than think your way into a new way of acting.
Storm Nordwind: For example, one of the effects of equanimity is fearlessness, and you can therefore be a wonderful resource for others in times of crisis. But if you aim for fearlessness directly, you may not reach equanimity.
Eliza Madrigal: nice distinction Storm
Storm Nordwind: In fact you may then only end up (for example) with indifference.

Sunshine Vayandar: be fearless be fearless ;)
Bleu Oleander: I don't normally think of fearlessness as an effect of equanimity ... interesing
Sunshine Vayandar: yes interesting ;)
Eliza Madrigal: truly accepting impermanence as the way things are would bring a level of fearlessness perhaps

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: releasing of expectation
Korel Laloix: I have been accused of being fearless... but not sure that is a compliment.
Bleu Oleander: is equanimity a purely self-regarding state of mind? or is there a wider sense that would include the well-being of others?
Eliza Madrigal: fearless and reckless may be other words to compare :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) hmm yes
Storm Nordwind: Having neither attachment nor aversion to people or things or perceptions, seeing all as equally important, having compassion for all, being kind to all, delighting in all - this brings equanimity and - indeed - fearlessness.
Korel Laloix: Probably... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Korel Laloix: I don't like the sound of that really.
Eliza Madrigal: your question hits the point Bleu :)
Korel Laloix: No attachments or aversions?
Bleu Oleander: hi (((Eden)))
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Hi Eden! :D
Korel Laloix: Sounds reckless and cold to me.
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Eden ;)
Korel Laloix: BUt you mentioned that possibility earlier.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, like Sun's quote earlier
Storm Nordwind: Quite the reverse Korel; it is very warm!
Eden Haiku: Hi everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: nonattachment is not indifference

Storm Nordwind: Good morning Eden!
Eliza Madrigal: Eden it is lovely to see you
Korel Laloix: Not sure I buy that.... can you explain more pleaes?
Eliza Madrigal: we have been sort of comparing/contrasting equanimity and balance
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eden Haiku: Ah equanimity and balance, thank you Eliza :)

Bleu Oleander: found an interesting article on our relationships with others and our conversations
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/op...me&ref=general
Bleu Oleander: a kind of false sense of equanimity
Eliza Madrigal: :) there are times in life when I've been really organized and had things externally lined up, but missed it for lack of equanimity I feel... not seeing the forest for trees
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Eliza Madrigal: juggling madly is not equanimity Bleu? :)
Sunshine Vayandar: mm sounds familiar

Bleu Oleander: I was struck by her line, "human relationships are rich; they're messy and demanding. We have learned the habit of cleaning them up with tech"
Bleu Oleander: "connecting in sips"
Eden Haiku: Sips like snippets?
Bleu Oleander: we think our sips add up to a big gulp of conversation and they don't

Korel Laloix: That is what this equanimity sounds like to me.
Storm Nordwind: Indifference would not be equanimity. Nor coldness. Those would not bring you to care for others with equal concern. Equanimity brings that openness.
Korel Laloix: Refusing really deep conversation.
Korel Laloix: Putting up a short fence around yoru life so you never have to risk.
Bleu Oleander: does equanimity then move one to action?
Korel Laloix: Using the "I care equally for everyone" line as an excuse.
Eliza Madrigal: think it is hard to talk about it as a thing

Eden Haiku: Hi Yaku!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Yaku ;)
Korel Laloix: Bozho
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yaku!
Sunshine Vayandar: brb

Eliza Madrigal: not something can be gotten in some sense... yet recognized
Bleu Oleander: is it a feeling state of mind?
Storm Nordwind: I think equanimity moves one to openness, acting when appropriate, resting where not. It is probably a change from previous behavior though! :)
Eliza Madrigal: shift of being, almost, though that seems a weird term :)

Eden Haiku: An inner feeling of peace looks like equanimity doesn'it?
Storm Nordwind: Inner peace is certain an effect of equanimity, yes!
Bleu Oleander: what then is equanimity itself?
Eden Haiku: an effect or is it rather the other way around? Peace creating equanimity?
Eliza Madrigal: that seems such a good distinction... peace, balance... effects of equanimity
Storm Nordwind: I think it's an effect Eden. I've found peace can be fragile, but equanimity less so.

Bleu Oleander: hi San :)
Santoshima Resident: hello everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi San!
Santoshima Resident: mornin' :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ssan

Eden Haiku: In my own experinece, when I'm in peace I'm naturally equanimous...Things are neither good or bad: they just are
Bleu Oleander: so is equanimity a state of being having the effects of peace balance serenity openess .....?

--BELL--

Storm Nordwind: Wonderful Eden!
Eliza Madrigal: 'there is neither good or bad but thinking makes it so'
Eden Haiku: Hello San :))
Storm Nordwind: And it seems to me Bleu equanimity is a state of being - and certainly has a bunch of effects like that. :)
Bleu Oleander: :)

Eliza Madrigal: here is one "definition" though I imagine it opens angles over time: “The real meaning of upekkha is equanimity, not indifference in the sense of unconcern for others. As a spiritual virtue, upekkha means equanimity in the face of the fluctuations of worldly fortune. It is evenness of mind, unshakeable freedom of mind, a state of inner equipoise that cannot be upset by gain and loss, honor and dishonor, praise and blame, pleasure and pain. Upekkha is freedom from all points of self-reference; it is indifference only to the demands of the ego-self with its craving for pleasure and position, not to the well-being of one's fellow human beings. True equanimity is the pinnacle of the four social attitudes that the Buddhist texts call the 'divine abodes': boundless loving-kindness, compassion, altruistic joy, and equanimity. The last does not override and negate the preceding three, but perfects and consummates them.” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upekkha )
Eliza Madrigal: (eep a bit long sorry)
Eliza Madrigal: but it isn't just a Buddhist term

Bleu Oleander: seems to me there is a difference between the english definition of equanimity and the Buddhist translation of Upekkha?
Korel Laloix: Language is an issue in this for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: yes I guess in some places it is just not losing one's temper
Santoshima Resident: upeksha
Santoshima Resident: sanskrit
Bleu Oleander: well more than that I think Eliza

Bleu Oleander: more a state of inner peach and balance
Eliza Madrigal smiles widely at sweet typo

Santoshima Resident: "it has to do with state in relation to another person
Bleu Oleander: :)
Santoshima Resident: not indifference, not contempt or distain "for the person who has fallen into vice"
Bleu Oleander: that's what I always strive for ... inner peach :)
Eden Haiku: Very interesting quote Eliza: I like the fact that it says equanimity doesn't override love, compassion nor joy :)
Eliza Madrigal: inner peachiness :)
Korel Laloix: It's contridictory though.
Eden Haiku: I do love inner peach :))
Storm Nordwind: Me too!
Eliza Madrigal: fuzzy

Storm Nordwind: Here's another long definition to mull over: Upekkha (Pali: Equanimity) is the quality of being emotionally calm, balanced and even, especially when confronted with difficult situations. Sometimes it is also called equipoise (susamàhita) or being centred (majjhatta). Equanimity is the last of the four Brahma Viharas, one of the different ways love can express itself. It is also mentioned as one of the ten paramitas.

It can be difficult, impossible even, to feel warm friendly regard to someone who has hurt us or who is unapologetically evil. The way we can express love to such a person is by remaining calm, unmoved and free from hatred. From this stance it will be much easier to open up to that person when we have developed our love more strongly. Equanimity is also a skilful way to respond to the many temptations, provocations and sensual impressions that assail us every day. It will allow us to keep our sense of balance and, as the Buddha said, ‘walk evenly over the uneven’ (S.I,4). Sometimes equanim
Storm Nordwind: ity is confused with indifference although it is actually easy to distinguish the two. If we remain calm and unmoved because we understand that excitement or agitation is inappropriate, unjustified or unhelpful, this can be called equanimity. If we remain unmoved and uninvolved because we cannot be bothered or because we simply do not care this can be called indifference. Equanimity grows out of knowledge, indifference out of ignorance or selfishness.

Santoshima Resident: "it is a serarching self-examination to find out how one would behave when faced with the same temptations ... involves self-examination

Korel Laloix: If you don't let the bad things in this word upset you, motivate you for change, what good is it?

Eden Haiku: Eating papaya rioght now and feeling inner papya-peach:)))

Bleu Oleander: that's where the wisdom comes in Korel
Eliza Madrigal: Korel I think it is that we may 'intend' not to be perturbed or swayed or angered... but that may be something altogether different from a quality that sustains one .... especially when triggers come up, buttons are pushed
Korel Laloix: Sort of the thought process that I found so disturbing about the World Peace Day thing.
Eliza Madrigal: wisdom :)
Storm Nordwind: I can be motivated without being upset. Can't you?
Korel Laloix: Yes... but being upset helps... smiles
Santoshima Resident: in what way?
Korel Laloix: Might be a words thing again though.
Eliza Madrigal: each person who participated or who didn't had their own thought process
Korel Laloix: I have never work on a project that was justice oriented where I met someone that said.... Oh I am perfectly ballanced so I came to help.
Korel Laloix: You hear things like... I am so mad or saddened.
Korel Laloix: That is why people make change.
Eliza Madrigal: :) actually I've met lots of people who give of abundance

Storm Nordwind: I suspect a balanced person would see that saying that would not be helpful to most other people!
Eden Haiku: Being in our heart is the key to equanimity isn'it? The heart knows the way to everything. The way to change the world too.

Korel Laloix: OK.. I am 25... but in my vast expereince... lol... you know what I mean.. smiles
Eliza Madrigal: The heart knows :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: excuse me one second please

Awareness...

Bleu Oleander: theres nothing wrong with recognizing natural feelings of saddness or anger over situations ... I don't think that changes an overall state of equanimity
Bleu Oleander: if the state is true one should be able to come back to center
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
Storm Nordwind: Why not stay at the center? Why leave it?
Bleu Oleander: as Korel said it sometimes moves one to action to have motivating feelings
Eliza Madrigal: I like that... may not be able to 'get' equanimity but can 'practice' it... and I think that is a huge 'how'
Eliza Madrigal: come back to center
Eden Haiku: Well, realistically, we do leave center many times a day, don't we? But it's not a reason not to come back to it. Like the 9 seconds...
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Korel Laloix: I think I would preffer ...
personally.... to be aware of all those things, but not wall myself off from them.. My awareness is my anchor but I still have deep attachments and let those attachments move me.

Storm Nordwind: Being motivated can come from kindness and compassion. And then the poise from equanimity can help you act in a fully balanced way.
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: but sometimes motivation comes from gut feelings that you're not so consciously aware of
Storm Nordwind: With equanimity you don't shut out awareness at all. Quite the reverse. Your awareness becomes more open.
Eliza Madrigal: pause approaching :)

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: back ;)
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes when I think I am really balanced I stub my toe or something and shock myself with response, hah... so... :)
Eliza Madrigal: Wb Sun :)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Sunshine Vayandar: hi San ;)
Eden Haiku: ah, yes that's a good test :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;))
Eden Haiku: Or toothache...
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Bleu Oleander: or spilt milk :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: or lion on the road
Bleu Oleander: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: yeah sure
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Bleu Oleander: have run across that in Phoenix!
Korel Laloix: Maybe I am not understanding you (likely) but this seems to say it is better to have a thousand relationships that are one inche deep than ten relationships a hunderred inches deep.
Eliza Madrigal: really?
Bleu Oleander: oops ... not literaly
Eden Haiku: lion on the road is not part of my challenges, is it for you Sun?
Bleu Oleander: but yes seen one
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Sunshine Vayandar: not really Eden ;)
Storm Nordwind: Don't understand that conclusion Korel. Can you say more?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: not yet hmm
Eden Haiku: ah, a figure of style :)
Sunshine Vayandar: you never know here ....it might happen
Bleu Oleander: the article I posted earlier says the opposite Korel
Korel Laloix: From what you said earlier... you hold eveyone equally.. no attachements.

Eden Haiku: or just thinking you see a snake. And it's a bit of rope!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's just it
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Korel Laloix: OK... then if I understand this, equanimity is perhpaps not for me.
Korel Laloix smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think if you hear it as a flattening of things

Santoshima Resident: it's not a fixed state
Storm Nordwind: With equanimity comes dropping of filters. Very PaB in that sense. So you find deeper relationship with everyone - in my experience - not equally shallow.
Korel Laloix: YEs, it does seem flat to me.
Bleu Oleander: I think there is room for individual interpretation and acknowledging ones own inner feelings
Eliza Madrigal: San can you please continue?

Eden Haiku: Attachments are quite natural Korel. Being aware of them is something else. (BRb phone)

Storm Nordwind: The ocean is flat on the surface. But very deep!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) Storm

Eden Haiku: back
Bleu Oleander: now a days a lot of garbage down there too :)
Sunshine Vayandar: wb ;)
Bleu Oleander: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch
Eden Haiku: Wow, Bleu... In Cuba, there was a kind of brownish foam on the beaches the last week. Nobody knew what it was.
Eliza Madrigal: powerful metaphor actually - equanimity may allow the evennness for the mucky and murky waters to be tended to and clarified :)

Eden Haiku: And about 900 dolphins were found on peruvian beaches in the last few days...
Eliza Madrigal: :(
Sunshine Vayandar: ;(
Eden Haiku: Dead dolphins I mean.
Bleu Oleander: so sad about the dophins
Eliza Madrigal: thinking of the animal orchestra
Bleu Oleander: we're meeting someone next week who is working hard to protect dolphins
Bleu Oleander: has a wonderful new book "the Dolphin in the mirror"
Eden Haiku: equanimity doen't prevent us from seeing how much the Earth is suffering these days...
Bleu Oleander: really enjoying "the great animal orchestra"
Santoshima Resident: equanimity doesn't equal complacency
Bleu Oleander: right
Eden Haiku: What is it (the great animal orchestra?)
Korel Laloix: I does come accross that way in the definition though.
Bleu Oleander: fantastic book Eden
Santoshima Resident: not how i read it
Santoshima Resident: quite the opposite
Eden Haiku: oh, will research it. Whay do you say so Korel?
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/bo...pagewanted=all
Korel Laloix: Already am.... smiles
Korel Laloix: Looked through a few pages already.

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: If you don' let yourself become upset or impassioned becuase you are balanced... you will miss so many oportunities and moral obligations.
Eliza Madrigal: 2012.04.16 07:00 - Variations on a Theme "What Has the 9 Seconds Meant to You?" - PlayAsBeing Wiki http://bit.ly/I9cyyk (session re the animal orchestra)
Storm Nordwind: I think quite the reverse Korel. You'll see them more clearly and be able to act more directly.

Eliza Madrigal: Rest is very important... wish I'd known that before I became very ill at some point
Eden Haiku: reminds me of your gecko's singing Eliza:)
Storm Nordwind thanks Eliza for the reminder about rest! :)
Eliza Madrigal: OOooh Eden it does :)
Eliza Madrigal: I could spend the rest of my life promoting REST
Korel Laloix: I see your point, but maybe I am not understanding what you mean.
Eliza Madrigal: that would be my cause :)
Santoshima Resident: :)
Korel Laloix: Or maybe I just dissagree... grins
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eden Haiku: Thank you for the conversation. I will have to leave now and get some rest :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Thanks Eden welcome back from Cuba
Santoshima Resident: bye eden, take care
Eden Haiku: have a good day everyone!
Bleu Oleander: me too ... but for me ... have to get to work :)
Storm Nordwind: Yes welcome back Eden!
Sunshine Vayandar: byebye Eden ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks Bleu
Santoshima Resident: bye bleu ~
Bleu Oleander: take care all :)
Korel Laloix: Thanks for the chat.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Korel :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks !
Korel Laloix: Was interesting today for sure.
Santoshima Resident: bye Korel ~ ciao, bella
Storm Nordwind waves
Eliza Madrigal: Storm how feeling?
Storm Nordwind: Slowly better. Thank you!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye korel
Storm Nordwind: I exerted myself too much on the first sign of recovery and paid a price!
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes that's easy to do
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry back ;) so busy today
Eliza Madrigal: wb Sun, no worries
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: Eden was in Cuba?
Storm Nordwind: Just good to have you here Sun :))
Sunshine Vayandar: wow ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: tyty Stormy ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: nice to be back - always great to listen in
Eliza Madrigal: meant to ask her if she danced in the streets

Eliza Madrigal: I can't stay longer today but appreciate the various angles in this session including dissenting ones too
Sunshine Vayandar: yes very interesting thanks Liz and all
Sunshine Vayandar: have a great day guys ;)
Storm Nordwind: Bye!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee
Santoshima Resident: bye
Eliza Madrigal: be well and happy
Eliza Madrigal: bye :)