2012.04.30 19:00 - A Very Serious Nothing

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bertrum
Bertrum Resident: Hi Aph.
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks..
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ewan
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi bertrum
Bertrum Resident: Hi Ewan.
Aphrodite Macbain: You may not realize it but I'm Pema tonight
Ewan Bonham: Lol...tall shoes to fill..
Aphrodite Macbain: and the red hair is hard too
Aphrodite Macbain: How are you both? Hacven't seen either of you in a while
Ewan Bonham: I am well thank you..
Bertrum Resident: Fine thank you. And you?
Aphrodite Macbain: What have you been doing recently?
Aphrodite Macbain: Ewan?
Ewan Bonham: Oh...just getting back to sl..
Aphrodite Macbain: you have taken a break?
Ewan Bonham: Have been in rl ...for the majority of my time over the last many weeks.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is that a good thing?
Aphrodite Macbain: Raffila, hope you didn't get wet
Raffila Millgrove waves greets to all.
Ewan Bonham: Yes, rl should always come first...:)
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.
Ewan Bonham: Hi Raff.
druth Vlodovic: hoya y'all
Raffila Millgrove: Hi Roger. come sit?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello drth- that was clever of you to arrived perfectly seated!
Ewan Bonham: Hi Druth..
druth Vlodovic: I've been practising
Raffila Millgrove: i dunno how i fell into pond like that. just same as rl.. stumbling about.
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles. I know trhe feeling, I just sprained my ankle.
Raffila Millgrove: yes.. that's right. it is getting better?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, slowly.
l314159265 Resident: Hi. I'm just seeing a number above my head, not my name. Do you guys see my name?
Aphrodite Macbain: Frustrating not being able to walk for any length of time
Raffila Millgrove: yes we see Roger ok.
l314159265 Resident: OK, a glitch of some sort. Thanks.
Raffila Millgrove: maybe you accidentally turned off in preference.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Roger, nice to see you again
l314159265 Resident: Thanks.
Aphrodite Macbain: Would people like to discuss the theme for the week?
Aphrodite Macbain: How our religious traditions are a resource to us?
Raffila Millgrove: i loved that very personal experience session.. i think you facilitated it? yesterday?
Aphrodite Macbain: Me?
Raffila Millgrove: well someone did. it was excellent.
Aphrodite Macbain: I facilitated the sunday 1pm session. Yes
Raffila Millgrove: got a heads up thru the email.
Raffila Millgrove: yes.. it was so good.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, it was very rich. People really opened up and told their stories. The session almost went on for 2 hrs
Raffila Millgrove: all the stories .. meaningful. so interesting to read it.
Aphrodite Macbain: It seems there are many people in PAB that have some religious tradition they draw from even though they may not practice it any more
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: I was brought up an anglican (Episcopalean)
Aphrodite Macbain: oops
Raffila Millgrove: this might sound odd.. but my husband comes from an atheist tradition and you might thing.. well no story there. but in fact. they.. his family.. talk more about God than mine does. much more... it's almost like they have a god.. even tho they are busy all the time saying no existence. i have found this with my pony too. constant talking about the god who "isnt".
Aphrodite Macbain: your pony?
Raffila Millgrove: ah sorry. skip that... it blurs out what i said.. about the .. atheist tradition being very strong.. for those i know.
Ewan Bonham: Yes...to say don't think of something brings it right to the awareness..
Aphrodite Macbain: Being an atheist doesn't mean you dont have a moral tradition however
Aphrodite Macbain: nods at Ewan.
Raffila Millgrove: they are very focussed on what it means to be an atheist.. how it shapes their views etc.. it's not a "relgious traiditon" but sure is a huge part of how they view world.
Aphrodite Macbain: Obviously it is an important subject. If there isn't a god, what is there? sort of question
Ewan Bonham: And what are we saying ther isn't
Aphrodite Macbain: Many scientists are still religious and believe in some form of prime mover
Aphrodite Macbain: could you rephrase that Ewan?
Raffila Millgrove: they find it very frustrating to .. listen.. and have it assumed by most around them.. that "something" is out there.. and they (speaking only of them.. not all atheist). they don't want or need spiritual either. this kind of surprises me. no spiritual.
Aphrodite Macbain: For some it isn''t a spiritual need but an explanation for creation and our purpose in life
Ewan Bonham: It really does depend on what you mean by God..
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
druth Vlodovic: the need is created, it can be gotten rid of, though this surprises most who are raised to believe it is inherent
Ewan Bonham: Spirituality to me is any form of Loving intention..
Raffila Millgrove: spirtuality to them is what is .. to them.. important. and they don't want.. any creator. any force outside ..not a force like good or evil. they want a very seiruos nothing. this is their code/creed. a Nothing.
Aphrodite Macbain: druth- are you saying that searching for a god is a cultural construct?
Raffila Millgrove: to be spirtual they feel would need to be in tune with more than what "is".
Raffila Millgrove: and therefore they refuse to say they are spiritual.
Aphrodite Macbain: I dont understand Raffila- sorry. Could you say that in a different way?
Aphrodite Macbain: spirituality is defined by more than the everyday world?
Aphrodite Macbain: Something outside?
Raffila Millgrove: i spend a lot of time. closeness with family. who do not want to be spiritual.. and wish to discuss that NOTHING is what is out there. no creator. no force like good or evil. a grand scheme of neutrality. and a nothingness. is this clearer?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. thanks :-)
Ewan Bonham: What i hear is that some would be like Buddhist and concentrate on the present moment rather than assuming there is something that caused or controls it..
Raffila Millgrove: to me this is a valid tradition. their tradition and they are intense and serious in talking of it often.
Aphrodite Macbain: I rather like the idea that anything spiritual is within us not "out there"
Raffila Millgrove: can i say more. that they do not have spiritual.. inside them.. or outside. I think this is hard concepts maybe if you are not used to hearing about it.
Ewan Bonham: Devoid of having to define what affects us..
druth Vlodovic: there are different definitions of the word "spiritual" some don't depend on the supernatural
Aphrodite Macbain: I do however like the idea that what is is beyond man's knowledge. We are not the centre of the unicverse that defines what is.
Ewan Bonham: That would presume some attachment to the cause.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: We cannot know or define it all.
Aphrodite Macbain: We can only know what is in our heads, and only that darkly
Raffila Millgrove: that is how you feel Aprho. it is hard to .. understand that others might be vehement in feeling that others cannot define their views of reality for them. they have defined. they believe they have the answer.
Raffila Millgrove: which is nothing. their answer is a neutral Nothing.
Aphrodite Macbain: What would be "the cause" Ewan?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods at Raffi
Ewan Bonham: Aph...that is the point...perhaps to them there is no reason to figure out the cause..
Ewan Bonham: The truth is derived within themselves..
--BELL--
Ewan Bonham: Now, in my case, I belive there is a cause..
Aphrodite Macbain: surely anyone who is curious about the universe they live in.
Aphrodite Macbain: would want to know.
Aphrodite Macbain: Like you Ewan.
Aphrodite Macbain: But many people would not want it defined for them, like your family Raffi
Ewan Bonham: I do believe in a Godenergy.
druth Vlodovic: I seek to discover what is by observation and conjecture, I don't see the need to limit myself through gods and suchlike
Ewan Bonham: And a supreme guidance..
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: so the question is how do these ways of believing or thinking influence your lives?
Raffila Millgrove: the way that view affects me is that I cannot say anything.. without provoking a lot of excitment and negativity if i chose to say something with any reference to religion.
Aphrodite Macbain: Do they guide you in any way? Help with deal with life's problems?
Aphrodite Macbain: BRB
Aphrodite Macbain: back
Ewan Bonham: Can a force be spiritual and not religious?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes I think so.
Aphrodite Macbain: but religion is simply a belif system
Aphrodite Macbain: Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.
Aphrodite Macbain: wikepedia
Aphrodite Macbain: It's wide open
Aphrodite Macbain: what works for you?
druth Vlodovic: you could change the word "religion" with "culture" to good effect
Aphrodite Macbain: nods perhaps
druth Vlodovic: we often don't realize that we are products in many ways
Ewan Bonham: Nodding..or belief system..
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, but our religion is more of a choice than our culture is.
Aphrodite Macbain: A culture is around us and uncontrolled by us. Religion is something we chose to adopt
Aphrodite Macbain: ssomething like that.
Aphrodite Macbain: What do you think Bertrum?
Raffila Millgrove: if you live in the US.. your life is going to be controlled by a religion that is not one of your choice perhaps.
Raffila Millgrove: you don't get a choice in this.
druth Vlodovic: culture is through us really, we interpret and guide it, religion is often part of it
Ewan Bonham: Scratch head..
Aphrodite Macbain: sure you do, much more than you get to chose your culture
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry responding to Raffi
druth Vlodovic: I discovered something neat recently
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
druth Vlodovic: I've always had a dislike of "revolutionary" and nihilistic solutions, thinking that even a bad system is a place to start from, and can be reformed into what we want
druth Vlodovic: turns out this is totally a result of my culture lol
Ewan Bonham: HelloSteve..
druth Vlodovic: hi steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi stevenaia.
Aphrodite Macbain: we are talking about how our religious traditions have influenced us
Raffila Millgrove: i am sorry to disagree with you Aphrodite but the US military for example will not permit you .. to have an abortion in any of their facilities overseas. your medical care is part of your pay/benefits but you cannot opt for an abortion at a US facility. If you are in a battle zone. you will be demoted fro getting pregnant. and you also again. no abortion. those are religious based decisions. by the US military.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, I was just reading yesterday's theme sessionlog
druth Vlodovic: that's more of an effect on our environment than on ourselves, though I suppose we are deeply affected by that
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: The US doesnt say what religion you should follow Raffi (it's in your constitution) but it may restrict how you practice your religion.There is a distinction.
Raffila Millgrove: my statement is that my life is affected by a religion i didn't chose. and that is true. i am forced to follow the tenents of christian right.. if i am in the military.
Aphrodite Macbain: Stevenaia - how does your belief system effect the way you live?
stevenaia Michinaga: initially I felt somewhat uncomfortable by Adam's Theme, at first because I am not a Christian and found it dificult to realte, and second ...
stevenaia Michinaga: my relgions is more of a cultural influence than a deem belief, feeling part of an ancient group is enough for me
stevenaia Michinaga: *deep
Aphrodite Macbain: Here is a usefl definition of religion" Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.
stevenaia Michinaga: how does affect the way I live, I feel it is a separating influence in a christion society
Aphrodite Macbain: we are not focusing on Christianity steve but any religion or belief asystem\
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, just offering impressions here
stevenaia Michinaga: we all ahve a core based on something that evolves and changes with contact with others
Aphrodite Macbain: but this must give you insight into how alternate religious groups feein the western world
Aphrodite Macbain: How has your religious beliefs helped you stevenaia?
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s how deeply we hold on to that core of upbringing that affect how we tranform ourselves
Aphrodite Macbain: how have you been transformed Steve?
Aphrodite Macbain: The intention here is not to debate the veracity of our religious beliefs
stevenaia Michinaga: transformed?... ponders ...looking back from where I came
Aphrodite Macbain: It is to talk about how these beliefs have affected our life.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's all..
Aphrodite Macbain: Basically my beliefs have given me a better appreciation of taking care of others
Aphrodite Macbain: of looking beyond my needs. I think that might be common to many beliefs
stevenaia Michinaga: everything is journey from point A to point B and the change that take places, PaB had been more transforative in my exposure to new things that have been deep inside me and has brought them out through understanding of others
Ewan Bonham: Feeling a commuity of all living creatures..
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: me too Steenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: these things are very subtle to me
stevenaia Michinaga: no lightning bolts
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut slow knowlefdge and understanding and acceptance
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. I find language has helped poetry
stevenaia Michinaga: very calm transformations
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: but noticeable?
stevenaia Michinaga: kind of like tilling the soil, new seed get exposed, yes and flower, very noticeable
Aphrodite Macbain: do you get pulled towards things that "make sense" or things that move you?
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: waves quietly at Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, just as ,in my case much of the dogma of Buddhism made no sense, but the spirit of Buddist were special
Eliza Madrigal waves quietly back and waits for what seems a strange watermelon to disappear from around her waist
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza- you are carrying a large stone. Is this a metaphor?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I have no idea
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: so you see it too?
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I should ask myself
stevenaia Michinaga: looks like the moon
Aphrodite Macbain: look and see what you are "wearing" and take it off
Eliza Madrigal: wearing the moon...hmmm
Aphrodite Macbain: Make sure you remove the right thing
Eliza Madrigal: yeah... tricky when SL is acting as it has been tonigh
druth Vlodovic: it's the "bridge" for phoenix
Eliza Madrigal: t
Eliza Madrigal: oh
Aphrodite Macbain: You must have been rearranging your plot
Raffila Millgrove: it is.
Ewan Bonham: Thank you all..appreciated the discussion...:)
Eliza Madrigal: I upgraded firestorm
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to miss you Ewan
Raffila Millgrove: bye Ewan. nice to see you again.
druth Vlodovic: cya ewan
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you for participating Ewan.
Eliza Madrigal: hope I didn't derail the topic with my shocking appearance
Aphrodite Macbain: It was good to hear and see you
Raffila Millgrove: ah i just see the time also. must run along. ty all
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Raffila
stevenaia Michinaga: notes another reason not to upgrade to Firestorm, watermellon hips
druth Vlodovic: have fun raffia
Eliza Madrigal: bye Raffi :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank yo. I envy your family dicussions
Aphrodite Macbain: we have had a lively discussions on religions, their definition and value Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: wow look forward to reading the log
Eliza Madrigal: http://bit.ly/IqeAuX
Eliza Madrigal: this is a ted from alain de botton ... may be of interest re our topic this week
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether anyone understood Raffi's reference to her pony. JUst wondering
Eliza Madrigal: re respecting faiths
Aphrodite Macbain: Excellent. Thanks Eliza'
Eliza Madrigal: yw
Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'll go and play in RL. Back to my drawing board.
druth Vlodovic: have fun aph
Eliza Madrigal: :) nice drawing today Aph
Eliza Madrigal: I think I will sit in karuna metta
Eliza Madrigal: afraid to remove this bridge
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks It is a GIANT pine cone- over 1 foot long
druth Vlodovic: if you do it makes another one, no harm I can find
Eliza Madrigal: :)) I so appreciate your sharing those sketches
Eliza Madrigal: yes? k... here goes...
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: thanks druth :)
druth Vlodovic: beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you Bert, Stevie
Eliza Madrigal: Night everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me
Aphrodite Macbain: You seem to have lost your stone Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: yes, detached the bridge
Eliza Madrigal: wonder if it will appear tomorrow
stevenaia Michinaga: night Druth, Bert, Eliza, Alprodite
Aphrodite Macbain: Nite
druth Vlodovic: sleep tight steve
Eliza Madrigal waves