2012.07.03 19:00 - PaB Spiritual Fuzziness?

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

     

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Samúð
    Eos Amaterasu: reality is half baked
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi San.... bye San...
    Eos Amaterasu: reality is intermittent
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi San
    Santoshima Resident: hi Eos, kinda laggy tonight
    Eos Amaterasu: like a mermaid outfit from some viewpoints....
    Santoshima Resident: free gown that doesn't fit
    Eos Amaterasu: US Navy issues official statement saying there's no evidence for mermaids
    Santoshima Resident: good to know
    Santoshima Resident: & that they are on that one is reassuring
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi O
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi
    Santoshima Resident: helloO
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: however, just ask a sailor....
    Eos Amaterasu: San, I'm not seeing what you're typing.....
    Santoshima Resident: that's becuase i have not pressed "enter"
    Eos Amaterasu: (oh!)
    Santoshima Resident: typing ... erasing .... typing erasing
    Eos Amaterasu: ah yes
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Santoshima Resident: could call it "editing"


    Eos Amaterasu: well, this week's theme is about Playing as Science of Playing as Being....
    Santoshima Resident: right!
    Eos Amaterasu: Would either (or both) of you care to comment on that?
    Eos Amaterasu: enter boxy.....
    Alfred Kelberry: h :)
    Santoshima Resident: stage center
    Santoshima Resident: hi boxy :)
    Santoshima Resident: whatsup with sam?
    Eos Amaterasu: reality is huffing and poofing
    Santoshima Resident: truly
    Eos Amaterasu: we are intermittent beings, boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: meaning?
    Eos Amaterasu: we come in and out of apparent existence
    Eos Amaterasu: Sam is here and gone and here and gone...
    Santoshima Resident: ah, boxy didn't ask, that was a question from the mermaid
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, possibly network issues
    Eos Amaterasu looks at boxy with new eyes
    Eos Amaterasu: wb, Samúð
    oO0Oo Resident: ty !
    Eos Amaterasu: you still look a bit grey!
    Alfred Kelberry: rebake may help
    Eos Amaterasu: 90 second observation session coming up!
    Alfred Kelberry: oh noooes!


    --BELL--


    Alfred Kelberry: anyone is celebrating the 4th of july?
    Eos Amaterasu: oh, that's tomorrow!
    Eos Amaterasu: (or today)
    Eos Amaterasu: (or yesterday)
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Samúð
    Alfred Kelberry: i think you will skip on that, eos :)
    Santoshima Resident: phantom antendees are poking your nose hello storm :)
    Santoshima Resident: broken sentence there ....
    Alfred Kelberry: you already had july 1st... if i'm correct
    Eos Amaterasu wonders how phantom
    Santoshima Resident: phantom atendees are poking your nose, boxy
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, july 1 fireworks
    Santoshima Resident: hello Storm ~
    Alfred Kelberry: mr storm, will you celebrate the independence day?
    Storm Nordwind: What do you mean by celebrate?
    Storm Nordwind: Hi everyone :)
    Eos Amaterasu: ~~
    Alfred Kelberry: i'd guess, bbq, waving flags, fireworks
    Santoshima Resident: wb, sam
    Storm Nordwind: fireworks banned in Colorado this year
    Alfred Kelberry: ha!
    Eos Amaterasu: nobody told nature
    Storm Nordwind: Nature tells us
    Alfred Kelberry: storm, i take it you're not impressed with 4th of july :)
    Storm Nordwind: My wife gets the day off, so that's wonderful :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: oh yes, the day off part is always nice
    Eos Amaterasu: that feeling of more pervasive rest throughout the polis is nice
    Eos Amaterasu: a dropping day
    Eos Amaterasu thinks, the drop of July....
    Alfred Kelberry: how are the wildfires, storm? got calmer?
    Storm Nordwind: Mostly contained I think now
    Alfred Kelberry: good
    Alfred Kelberry: kudos to firemen. i respect these folks.
    Storm Nordwind: yes indeed. very much so
    Santoshima Resident: goodnight ~
    Alfred Kelberry: only once i had a chance to deal with them and they were heroic :)
    Eos Amaterasu: /night, San
    Eos Amaterasu listens
    Alfred Kelberry: i like to think of storm as heroic too
    Alfred Kelberry: like in comics
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Storm Nordwind: You make me laugh boxy! :)
    Alfred Kelberry: good :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i may not like your spiritual fuzziness, but respect you as a person :)
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you for that. But what is "spiritual fuzziness"?
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, would you say there is such a thing as spiritual sharpness?
    Alfred Kelberry: i won't get into that :)
    Alfred Kelberry: not today
    Eos Amaterasu: oh, I want to hear the vorpal blades go snicker snack!
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    oO0Oo Resident: reminded of a quote about sharpness/logic
    Storm Nordwind: fuzzy logic was a fun subject to study :)
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, scroll up and you'll see :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Lofti!
    Eos Amaterasu waits for quote....
    oO0Oo Resident: "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it" ~Rabindranath Tagore


    --BELL--


    Eos Amaterasu: ooh, sharp
    Storm Nordwind: Sharper if Lotfi too ;)
    Alfred Kelberry: sam, agreed. any radical inclination is dangerous.
    Alfred Kelberry: storm, time for a story :)
    oO0Oo Resident winces somewhat entering that quote
    Storm Nordwind is reminded of anger being like a hot coal, which burns anyone who hangs on to it.
    Eos Amaterasu wonders why boxy is armed
    Boxy has what looks like an AK-47 strapped to his back

    oO0Oo Resident: me listens
    Alfred Kelberry: eos ;)
    Alfred Kelberry: *makes a note*
    Storm Nordwind waits patiently to hear boxy's story :)
    Alfred Kelberry: no... yours, stormy :)
    Eos Amaterasu: snicker snack
    Alfred Kelberry: you're a local storyteller


    Eos Amaterasu: storm creates stories you walk into
    Storm Nordwind: Storytelling is best in voice. I'm not good at it at the keyboard unless prepared
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, meaning?
    Eos Amaterasu: like this pavilion
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Eos Amaterasu: and the railroad
    Eos Amaterasu: and Kuanyin Terraces
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, ok
    Eos Amaterasu: frames our playing as being
    Storm Nordwind: I like building places in which people can write their own stories
    Storm Nordwind: Space as an opportunity
    Eos Amaterasu: how to shape conviviality
    oO0Oo Resident: Boxy, True RE: extremes, obstacles to logical thinking may be even more of a problem
    Alfred Kelberry: storm, it's like writing a library that is being used to build other things :)
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, the characters can walk from one novel to another
    Storm Nordwind: Except that the whole world is invited to use the library boxy, not just me
    Alfred Kelberry: that's what i meant. giving it's open source :)


    Eos Amaterasu: I think PaB is somewhat about spiritual sharpness, without the trappings of spirituality and religion
    Eos Amaterasu: "staring reality in the face"
    Eos Amaterasu: "who's staring?"
    Alfred Kelberry: can you give an example of spiritual sharpness, eos?
    Storm Nordwind: sharpness as in acuity
    Eos Amaterasu: acuity yes
    Eos Amaterasu: clear seeing
    Eos Amaterasu: I think the realm we're investigating overlaps that well trodden by sprirituality and religions
    Eos Amaterasu: but even within those traditions there are many approaches that have nothing to do with religion, but just with exploring how the human mind works
    oO0Oo Resident: precision discovering gentleness?
    Eos Amaterasu: find the source of precision
    Eos Amaterasu: gently being there without altering anything


    Eos Amaterasu: Pema's approach is in some ways very abstract
    Storm Nordwind: Just reading the description for this land. It says: "http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ Art Buddhism China Christianity Contemplation Discussion Exploration Hinduism Humanism India Japan Knowledge Meditation Meeting Mysticism New Phenomenology Philosophy Science Space Sufi Taoism Tibet Time Welcome" and I suspect we do regular tread many overlapping paths from those.
    Alfred Kelberry: eos, this is a good example of spiritual fuzziness :)
    Eos Amaterasu: you notice an "idea", or "concept", and how your mind holds that - and you play with relaxing that
    oO0Oo Resident: Which ways Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: it's abstract in the sense that you make an abstraction (like Time) tangible
    Alfred Kelberry: storm, i don't think "science" belongs in this description
    Eos Amaterasu: it becomes tangible when you find yourself using it
    Storm Nordwind: Why don't you boxy?
    Eos Amaterasu: and then you realize that's been altering how you experience reality


    Alfred Kelberry: it is in fact unfair of pema to incite a sense of scientific framework to pab
    Eos Amaterasu: it's been his entire motivation!
    Alfred Kelberry: it is purely a spiritual group
    Storm Nordwind: Why. What do you think science is?
    oO0Oo Resident: Feels like a paradox.. the descriptions of PaB in SL.. because of the extreme openness (kind of Ati) quality it guards.. such that.. one must renew an alignment that may not really ever match up.


    --BELL--


    Alfred Kelberry: you've attended our discussion, storm
    Storm Nordwind: Science is only a process, nothing more. If you apply that process to exploration, then you're performing science.
    Storm Nordwind: Part of Pema's intent was to explore whether such a process could indeed be applied to PaB. So it was research about the method.
    Eos Amaterasu: But I think it may be true that relatively little "lab" type exploration happens
    Alfred Kelberry: there's only awareness in pab's exploration. pema confirmed it himself. you can not put these observations down and share in a consistent way.
    Eos Amaterasu: the logs do leave notes from many many sessions, though
    Storm Nordwind: Part of any scientific process is the struggle to find terminology and notation.
    Eos Amaterasu: "any object sufficiently contemplated grows a corresponding organ of perception" - Goethe
    Storm Nordwind smiles at Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: science generates incredibly complex measuring apparatus
    Eos Amaterasu: enough to capture the elusive Higgs Bison, long ago escaped from the plains of North America
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    oO0Oo Resident laughs
    Storm Nordwind: What's the difference between a bison and a buffalo? ;)
    Eos Amaterasu: I give up....
    Storm Nordwind: You can't wash your hands in a buffalo. :))
    Storm Nordwind plays a rimshot
    Eos Amaterasu: argh!
    oO0Oo Resident: hahaha
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess we all owe a debt of gratitude for ol' Higgs for providing us all with mass....
    Storm Nordwind: Religious fellow was he? ;)
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Eos Amaterasu: "Young men marching, helmets shining in the sun, Polished as precise like the brain behind the gun (Should be!)"
    Eos Amaterasu: (Bruce Cockburn)
    Eos Amaterasu: that's why we need precise bright spirituality
    Eos Amaterasu: for the brains behind the guns
    Eos Amaterasu: addressing the realm of intersubjectivity matters
    Eos Amaterasu: because it affect everything we observe
    Storm Nordwind: And I was going to say what we actually need is accessible spirituality, taking account of how much brain is usually behind the guns. :)
    Eos Amaterasu: the brain behind the drone....


    --BELL--


    Eos Amaterasu: thanks Samúð, boxy, Storm....
    oO0Oo Resident: I must learn more about intersubjectivityty.
    Eos Amaterasu: good night!
    oO0Oo Resident: ty
    Storm Nordwind will return to work :)
    Storm Nordwind: nam
    oO0Oo Resident waves
    oO0Oo Resident: NOMaste
    oO0Oo Resident: ;)
    Storm Nordwind: :))
    Storm Nordwind: Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't! :)
    oO0Oo Resident smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Bye dear friends :)
    oO0Oo Resident: bfn

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    Suspending judgment about whether 'contemplation' is a science, science can be "fuzzy" too. If one watches and listens closely, there are as many debates within various fields about the usefulness of what is being explored and whether it qualifies as science deserving of funding. Even in today's press conference re higgs-boson, well... they've found *a* boson but can't say it is *the* higgs-boson, etc. Multiple layers. http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1459604
    Posted 16:30, 4 Jul 2012
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