The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

I was delayed due to the 4th of July fireworks celibration and the ensuing traffic to return home.

Storm Nordwind and Alfred Kelberry were here when I arrived, Lucinda Lavender and Raffila Millgrove joined shortly thereafter....

Alfred Kelberry: mr storm
Storm Nordwind: mr. boxy
Alfred Kelberry: so, we'll sit quietly and wait for stev
Storm Nordwind: Steve's email says he may be late I see
Alfred Kelberry: that is correct
Alfred Kelberry: do you build exclusively in sl now or in rl as well (i.e. coding)?
Storm Nordwind: Exclusively here
Alfred Kelberry: why not rl?
Alfred Kelberry: dust off that cobol manual :)
Storm Nordwind: No need.
Storm Nordwind: I did COBOL in my first year at university
Storm Nordwind: But it was rather crude
Alfred Kelberry: no interest?
Storm Nordwind: In RL coding? I'm a pragmatist. If there is need, there is interest. If there is interest, there is fun. No there is no need.
Alfred Kelberry: ok :)

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: so, your interest has zero influence on your needs?
Storm Nordwind: My interest is derived from need
Storm Nordwind: But don't confuse interest and wonder :)
Alfred Kelberry: how do they differ?
Alfred Kelberry: i think one's interest is usually driven by wonder
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps
Storm Nordwind: But wonder can also be pure wonder
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Storm Nordwind: Life is full of wonder
Storm Nordwind: There is not enough time to be interested in everything that inspires wonder
Alfred Kelberry: sounds like terms juggling to me :)
Alfred Kelberry: oh, that is true
Alfred Kelberry: i can hardly keep up with new stuff every day
Storm Nordwind: Quite so
Storm Nordwind: That's another reason not to code in rl!
Alfred Kelberry: that's when priorities come to rescue
Alfred Kelberry: i don't see causality there, but ok :)
Storm Nordwind: After 40 years of keeping up with new developments in computer science and programming, I'd like to relax a little :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, wear and tear
Alfred Kelberry: yes, may happen to me one day
Alfred Kelberry: though, it's too exciting to even consider it yet :)
Storm Nordwind: Some things I try for a while. Cat was interesting to dabble in. I'd like Mythryl to be up and running - and maybe one day. But meanwhile coding in SL is fun
Alfred Kelberry: mythwho?
Storm Nordwind: Hmmm... let me see... I suspect this will work: http://mythryl.org/
Alfred Kelberry: never heard of it
Storm Nordwind: Poor boxy
Alfred Kelberry: that gandalf person reminds me of you
Alfred Kelberry: good to see your wondering interest is still there :)
Storm Nordwind: When it ceases to be fun, I stop doing it
Storm Nordwind: When it ceases to help others I stop
Alfred Kelberry: ha! like this one: God is real, unless declared integer
Storm Nordwind: What sits on your shoulder and says :"Pieces of seven, pieces of seven"?
Alfred Kelberry: damn you, i'll have to bookmark it now and take a look later
Alfred Kelberry: storm, not a parrot, i presume
Storm Nordwind: A parity error
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Alfred Kelberry: stev! you made it through the terrible traffic! :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi there Stevie. Was it good?
Alfred Kelberry: duh
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, thank you it was very bright and loud
Storm Nordwind: A bit like boxy you mean?
Alfred Kelberry: i'm also sexy
stevenaia Michinaga: amazing how it is so attractive to see bright and shinny things
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: I can't vouch for that in this avatar boxy ;)
Alfred Kelberry: luci!
Lucinda Lavender: Hallo
Lucinda Lavender: How are things going hear?
Lucinda Lavender: here
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut got here myself
stevenaia Michinaga: saw the rockets red glare
Storm Nordwind: boxy and I have been talking drivel about programming so far
Lucinda Lavender: how about the rockies storm
stevenaia Michinaga: computer programing?
Storm Nordwind: Smoke filled Luci
Lucinda Lavender: red glare
Lucinda Lavender: ah
Alfred Kelberry: s/drivel/wisdom
Storm Nordwind: visibility is poor due to wildfires in Wyoming and Montana!
Lucinda Lavender: imagine ...
stevenaia Michinaga: oh my, hope they are far away
Alfred Kelberry: i like your tag question, luci :)

Luci did not notice her tag....

Lucinda Lavender: which are the tag questions
Lucinda Lavender: ?
stevenaia Michinaga: hue are you?
Storm Nordwind: I'm glad the Montana fire is 400 miles away. It currently covers 380 square miles
Storm Nordwind: But we get the smoke
stevenaia Michinaga: who was it that posted that hue test?
Lucinda Lavender: I visited which hue are you and bought jammies...was given a magical scarf that I can change the color of
Lucinda Lavender: where did you see the question about which hue are you Boxy
Lucinda Lavender: is it attached to me somewhere I cannot see?
Alfred Kelberry: above you in the tag
Lucinda Lavender: I cannot see it
Alfred Kelberry: turn group tags on
Lucinda Lavender: next to my name
stevenaia Michinaga: can you see yourself?
Storm Nordwind: You have tags switched off. But we can still see
Lucinda Lavender: interesting...
Lucinda Lavender: did not know about it
Storm Nordwind: When you join a new group, it becomes your active one, tags and all
Lucinda Lavender: isee what about now? I went to "none"
stevenaia Michinaga: you can change it by changing your active group
Storm Nordwind: Same tag for me at he moment
stevenaia Michinaga: if you right click on yourself you will a group menu
Alfred Kelberry: check out this kitkat! http://i.imgur.com/fruub.jpg
Alfred Kelberry: storm, make one, please
stevenaia Michinaga: you can change your Groups there
Lucinda Lavender: thanks...
Lucinda Lavender: I think I changed it to none
Lucinda Lavender: so many things to remember
Storm Nordwind: You need to activate it, not just highlight it
stevenaia Michinaga: nope
Alfred Kelberry: luci, i still see it
stevenaia Michinaga: Boxy, but how do they shrink them down when they are done?
stevenaia Michinaga: (the Kit Kat bar)
Lucinda Lavender: How about now?
Storm Nordwind: nope
stevenaia Michinaga: same luci
stevenaia Michinaga: which viewer are you using?
Alfred Kelberry: and they say sl is user friendly
Lucinda Lavender: viewer 2
Lucinda Lavender: I rt clicked on me, went to groups and changed it to payas being here
stevenaia Michinaga: every viewer puts these things in different places, I am on Phoenix
Lucinda Lavender: playasbeinghere
Storm Nordwind: nope
Alfred Kelberry: storm, http://imgur.com/gallery/eEVmE
Alfred Kelberry: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: did you hit "activate?

Alfred Kelberry: omg! ms raffi! herself! :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Raffi, nice to see you
Lucinda Lavender: I will look for activate...did not see the word anywere
Raffila Millgrove: greets all.
Lucinda Lavender: hi Raffi!
Raffila Millgrove: drop by in midst of 4th celebration at my house to say hello.
Alfred Kelberry: storm, people actually ask you this? :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Raffi
Storm Nordwind: Sure they do. And I say we celebrate getting rid of you.
Alfred Kelberry: ha!
Alfred Kelberry: well, america... :)

--BELL--

Storm Nordwind observes Luci's tag has now gone :)
Alfred Kelberry: yay!
Alfred Kelberry: congrats, luci
Lucinda Lavender: thank you for all you help
stevenaia Michinaga: yeah
Raffila Millgrove: read logs from July 1. fascinating ...
Lucinda Lavender: I like the hue group...but I do not want a tag on all the time
Lucinda Lavender: which part Raffi
Alfred Kelberry: would this be considered a racist statement in the u.s.? :) http://i.imgur.com/2aWJI.jpg
Lucinda Lavender: ?
stevenaia Michinaga: Raffi, this week's topic, which I am not sure we have to yet tonight is: How does pab apply science in its quest to "explore reality by using our own life as a laboratory"
Alfred Kelberry: raffi, what happened on july 1st?
Raffila Millgrove: the kind of dialogue that i was expecting when i joined PAB yet.. seldom experienced.. You were there boxy.
Raffila Millgrove: and Storm too i think for one session.
stevenaia Michinaga: maybe bias, but not racist
Alfred Kelberry: stev, thank god :)
Alfred Kelberry: raffi, is it when i talked to pema?
stevenaia Michinaga: that was July 2, this was Cal's session
Raffila Millgrove: Aprho and Eliza I think... were the GOC and.. Pema attended two session. You boxy were not convinced. you used the word cult. But i found Eos and Pema to be in top form.
Raffila Millgrove: ok maybe i have my dates skewed.
Alfred Kelberry: oh yes, a spiritual cult, indeed
Storm Nordwind: You're exskewsed
Raffila Millgrove: there are 3 excellent sessions. two with Pema attending. one with Eos.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Raffila Millgrove: 3
Raffila Millgrove: if you wisn i stagger into the logs and try to link.
Alfred Kelberry: oh, also: yay for europe! http://i.imgur.com/neVmK.png
Raffila Millgrove: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/07/2012.07.01_13%3a00_-_Life_as_a_laboratory_-_a_working_hypothesis_that_you_can_try_at_home_with_the_kiddies
Lucinda Lavender: will go staggering in a look too
Alfred Kelberry: these forces of evil have signed the treaty: Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, and the United States
Raffila Millgrove: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/07/2012.07.02_07%3a00_-_Life_Lab%3a_Drop_Ideas_of_Past_and_of_Future
Raffila Millgrove: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/07/2012.07.02_19%3a00_-_Happiness_is_a_Powerful_Force
Alfred Kelberry: omg! what a title! re: laboratory :/
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, raffi
Raffila Millgrove: some of the best session that I have... read.. in my time in PAB
Raffila Millgrove: sorry i was not here in person for them.
Raffila Millgrove: worth the bookmark or favorite.. to read or re-read them.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i wish you were around, raffi
Alfred Kelberry: most scientific minds have fled already :)
Raffila Millgrove: one statement i would like to make.. about.. the guru that fascinates and inspired Pema. His religion prevents any women from holding a position .. that is not subservient. there are only men. For this reason I have no use for these people. Sorry to state this. but if they chose to ignore females. i will also ingore their thought.
Storm Nordwind: I would say their school, not their religion. Their religion embraces all
Alfred Kelberry: so much for dharmic open mindness :)
Raffila Millgrove: i do believe that his.. ideas.. his wisdom is very fine.. but... he is not open to women. for this reason I cannot be open to him either because I am female.
Raffila Millgrove: he has closed out all my sisters. he has closed me out. i do not accept him for this reason.
Alfred Kelberry: storm, by school you mean a specific yana he's a member of?
Storm Nordwind: Some Tibtean style Buddhism works that way. Mostly vajrayana. But it is a small part of Buddhism. And a small part of Dzogchen teachings and teachers
Alfred Kelberry: raff, peculiar point. thank you for doing research on this.
Raffila Millgrove: People of his stature. they are in a position to.... welcome and embrace women and if they do not chose to do so.. i feel it negates whatever good they may offer.
Raffila Millgrove: It's not a peculiar point. It's a deliberate postion. where he could make a difference.. he choses not to acknowledge me and over 50 perdent of the population of the world as worthy of being equals.
Storm Nordwind: Do you know why he holds that position Raffi?
Alfred Kelberry: storm will try to rationalize it :)
Raffila Millgrove: i think it is conservatism. That he is not going to make that wave.. I do not know him. If i ever met him.. i would ask him. "why".
Storm Nordwind: No. Storm will just enquire

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: also I agree with you boxy about... cult. But i also challenge you to take up Pema's incredibly generous offer to spend a week in learning. I call you out Boxy and dare you to accept that amazing challenge which most of us would grab up in a minute. It was incredible offer to you.
Storm Nordwind: hear hear
Storm Nordwind: And i offered to do it with you too
Raffila Millgrove: if you take that journey Boxy you will dome out on another.. world and you may still posit cult and i will agree with you always on that. But it's worth taking this risk.
Raffila Millgrove: come out.
stevenaia Michinaga: I always wondered why people of his stature make such choices... Why is always a good question to ask, Raffi
Alfred Kelberry: it's not a challenge, raff. it's a presentation of pemayana. he called it an experiment. but there are no ties to scientific framework or research questions asked.
Raffila Millgrove: I put it out.. to be in the log for a position. But.. at the same time... i respect the Dali hugely.. and all his people and it just makes me both sad and angry.
Raffila Millgrove: Boxy.
Raffila Millgrove: quit this bs. on this... peyama crap. It's an opportunity to learn and experience.. it's a once in a lifetime.. chance. don't be foolish and let that door close.
stevenaia Michinaga: Are you thinking about it, Boxy, or have you decided?
stevenaia Michinaga: (no pressure, giggles)
Raffila Millgrove: it's an experiment--meaning.. an unknown.. a journey to some place you have never seen.. where no one else.. has gone to.. your own speical opening into a new world. don't be a dope.
Raffila Millgrove: have the strength and courage to.. venture.
Alfred Kelberry: raff, if you haven't noticed, i've been with this group since the first pheno workshop. i did those experiments and lengthy talks on, again, pemayana (a subtle form back then). it had educational value to me in the beginning when we discussed free will, deterministic universe, works of bertrand russell and other philosophers. but then it shifted towards spiritualism with a lot of quotes from dharmic gurus. i'm not going this way.
Raffila Millgrove: thank you for that well thought-out, articulate explanation and I accept your decision. With love. xo
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Raffila Millgrove: hehe. nothing like a big solid confrontation that ends with a sweet kiss.
Raffila Millgrove: xxxxx
Alfred Kelberry: let there be love :)
Raffila Millgrove: well i have lots of guests here and it's time to serve the cake.. so I dash off and wish you all well.
Raffila Millgrove: hugs to all.
Raffila Millgrove: Happy 4th
stevenaia Michinaga: hugs to Rafi
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Raffi
stevenaia Michinaga: Boxy, why have you started carrying a rifle?
Alfred Kelberry: it's a breaching experiment
Storm Nordwind: "breaching"?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, poking the norms :)
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: a social psych term
Storm Nordwind: Whose norms? Your own?
stevenaia Michinaga: an easy canoe to tip
stevenaia Michinaga: I liked to see the grasses move when you typed, Luci
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me, work tomorrow...night my friends
Storm Nordwind: Bye!
Storm Nordwind: Back to work for me

Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: what kind of work?
Lucinda Lavender: ah well
Lucinda Lavender: gone
Alfred Kelberry: be well
Lucinda Lavender: okay:)
Lucinda Lavender: you too:)