2012.07.12 19:00 - Travelling Through the Mind Without Obstructions

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. Participants included Ewan, Santoshima, stevenaia, Rhiannon, dranna and Lucinda

Paradise Tennant: Hiya Ewan :)
Ewan Bonham: Hi Para!
Paradise Tennant: how are you tonight
Ewan Bonham: Hi dranna
Ewan Bonham: I am well..
Ewan Bonham: A quiet night..
Ewan Bonham: Did you have a topic?
Paradise Tennant: smiles - was reading all the logs on empirical nature of both science and spirit
Paradise Tennant: kind of fascinating :)
Paradise Tennant: was there something you wanted to talk about tonight ?
Ewan Bonham: Not in particular..
Ewan Bonham: But that topic is interesting..
Paradise Tennant: smiles do you think we can think our way to realization ?
Ewan Bonham: What have they found regarding empirical evidence for spirituality?
Paradise Tennant: Noetic science :))
Santoshima Resident: Hi
Paradise Tennant: http://www.noetic.org/about/what-are-noetic-sciences/
Paradise Tennant: Eliza pasted this in an earlier session, I found it was fascinating
Ewan Bonham: Hi San
Santoshima Resident: Hi Ewan
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Santoshima Resident: silently, waves
Paradise Tennant: whispers .... hiya stev
Paradise Tennant: we are talking of noetic science .. an empirical approach to the spiritual path :) of sorts :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: and what have we discovered?
Paradise Tennant: no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experiences.
Paradise Tennant: I suspect we can order our observations .. so they they flow .. in a progression that is tidier .. :)))
Paradise Tennant: not sure more compelling .. but .. more sequential :)
Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...tidier...interesting..
Paradise Tennant: I build up a lot of different types of numeric arguments and there is a satisfying feel to how you can neatly stack data.. :)
Paradise Tennant: orderly ..builds :)
Ewan Bonham: Yes...of data..
Paradise Tennant: what I find most delightful about this space  - what we do  here.. is that it is very free form on many levels so touches on a lot .. if not everything :))
Ewan Bonham: A bit like traveling thru the mind...without obstructions?
Paradise Tennant: smiles and it is such a big big place :)
Ewan Bonham: The mind is as vast as the universe..
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: William James (1902) described as: …states of insight into depths of truth unplumbed by the discursive intellect. They are illuminations, revelations, full of significance and importance, all inarticulate though they remain; and as a rule they carry with them a curious sense of authority.
Paradise Tennant: believe on some level we already know everything
Ewan Bonham: Yes, I do believe that...if we use a loose and spiritually based term for 'know'
Paradise Tennant: there is a Buddhist metaphor that likens us to foggy mirrors we are all perfect and completely shiny beneath the fog and one with all knowledge all understanding
Ewan Bonham: Like on SL, the fog can be lifted by focusing in..
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
Ewan Bonham: Then clarity in one area allows clarity in many
Santoshima Resident: I better go, g'night everyone ~
Ewan Bonham: night San
Paradise Tennant: nite nite san sweet dreams :)))
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, took your pillow
dranna Tempura: ok I will get another
Paradise Tennant: “There are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe. But another way of knowing is subjective or internal, including gut feelings, intuition, and hunches—the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven “rationally” but feel absolutely real. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.”
Paradise Tennant: hiya Rhi nice to see you :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: hiya, Paradise
 Rhiannon Dragoone: It's all noetic, Paradise; it's just that some of the noesis is internal
Paradise Tennant: can you say more rhi :))
Rhiannon Dragoone: Sure, noesis is direct perception, whether internal or external. When we have that 'sense' that something is not right, or that sense that everything is right, in spite of problems, that's noesis
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Luce
Paradise Tennant: Hiya luci :))
Ewan Bonham: Rhi...thanks for the practical definition..
Lucinda Lavender: Hello Everyone:)
Ewan Bonham: Hi Luci
Paradise Tennant: we have been chatting about noetic science :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: It's ok, I'm good at hallucinating what people are saying lol
Paradise Tennant: speaking of noetic processing :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: :)
Paradise Tennant: had a dream I remembered this week and it was different :)
Lucinda Lavender: ??
Paradise Tennant: was dreaming in my avatar form ..
Paradise Tennant: standing by a seaside
Paradise Tennant: writing my name in the sand over and over again
Paradise Tennant: each time I wrote it the waves would come and wash it away
Rhiannon Dragoone: Your name or your avi's name?
Paradise Tennant: and I would laugh and write it again
Paradise Tennant: my avis' name
Paradise Tennant: Paradise
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Lucinda Lavender: very lovely
Ewan Bonham: Sounds like a dialogue..
Lucinda Lavender: between you and each now
Paradise Tennant: yes felt like I was playing with someone J
Rhiannon Dragoone: Noetic dreams are a kind of dialogue, Ewan; between you and your subconscious, or between you and higher intelligence
Lucinda Lavender: interesting...do not really know the word
Ewan Bonham: yes...thanks Rhi
--BELL--
Ewan Bonham: If I had that dream..
Lucinda Lavender: thanks for sharing...
Ewan Bonham: I would be playing with the idea that I am much more than my name..
Ewan Bonham: And 'identity'
Rhiannon Dragoone: It's kind of hard not to have ideas like that when you're experiencing a part of the world as an avatar
Rhiannon Dragoone: It leads naturally to thinking maybe you're experiencing *all* of the world as an avatar.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi stev!
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Rhi, it’s been a while
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, where've you been, stev? lol
Ewan Bonham: Hi Stev
Paradise Tennant: not sure I have ever dreamt in my avatar form before
Paradise Tennant: but it felt very real
Rhiannon Dragoone: I do that a lot.
Paradise Tennant: dream in your avatar form ?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Luci
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, dreams are real--they are an emotional reality. And yes.
Lucinda Lavender: somehow when I first explored here (HI Steve) I did some dreaming about here
stevenaia Michinaga: if you think it, it is any less than real
Lucinda Lavender: walking by a beach
Lucinda Lavender: I think it is part of exploration...and possibility
Lucinda Lavender: to dream where you are excited to be
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, people say somethings are real and others aren't when they think that the former have consequences and the latter don't. And ignoring dreams can have consequences.
Ewan Bonham: Since this is one of the first places I came on sl...I on occasion have dreamt about here..
Paradise Tennant: smiles at Ewan :)
Ewan Bonham: :)
Paradise Tennant: you think they are important processing .. of questions Rhi ?
Lucinda Lavender: nods
Rhiannon Dragoone: Important processing of all sorts of things--wishes (wish fulfillment), messages from higher intelligence, problem solving
Rhiannon Dragoone: And that's ignoring the point of those who say that they are an alternative reality that we experience
Lucinda Lavender: so are you saying you do not think they’ re an alternative reality?
Rhiannon Dragoone: No, I'm saying that they could be, I just wasn't addressing that in my answer to Paradise.
Lucinda Lavender: ah..
Paradise Tennant: smiles we should all sleep more then :))
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: My statement had the form of "dreams are x, y, z, and that's not even going to the fact they could be a, b, c., as well...
Paradise Tennant: always resist it though ..going to bed ... seems to me I have never had enough of the day
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, the day is important, but so are your dreams
Ewan Bonham: I believe I DO dream during the days..
Paradise Tennant: listens
stevenaia Michinaga: seems a shame to forget then so quickly if you don’t write them down, like smoke
Lucinda Lavender: Luci listening as well...
Ewan Bonham: Yet those of real importance, I never forget..
Rhiannon Dragoone: I tried keeping a dream journal, but I would start remembering so much detail that I didn't have time to write it all down before getting ready for my day
stevenaia Michinaga: but yes, I have had awake dreams
Lucinda Lavender: so important to me what people feel is true about dreams.
stevenaia Michinaga: I too Rhi
Paradise Tennant: smiles and listens
Lucinda Lavender: what is it like to be awake and dreaming?
--BELL--
Rhiannon Dragoone: I've had lucid dreams
Ewan Bonham: It feels to me like I am, being guided to see something in vivid metaphor..
Ewan Bonham: And then to see the interpretation from Spirit...
Rhiannon Dragoone nods
Ewan Bonham: Which I can then translate to other aspects of life
Lucinda Lavender: yes...this sounds familiar Ewan rare for me but familiar
Lucinda Lavender: depth packed
Paradise Tennant: what are the messages about
Ewan Bonham: Almost daily for me..
Ewan Bonham: But I must be in a mood of openness..
Lucinda Lavender: maybe less self involved
Lucinda Lavender: less control
Lucinda Lavender: more watching
Lucinda Lavender: caring
Ewan Bonham: Yes, and taking in..
Lucinda Lavender: receptivity
Lucinda Lavender: brb
Paradise Tennant: they sound like lovely gifts :) of seeing :) feeling :)
Ewan Bonham: Gifts we can give ourselves..
Paradise Tennant: often feel a wonderful powerful dream is like a gift
Ewan Bonham: And yes, each other..
Lucinda Lavender: bringing awareness to what is seen
stevenaia Michinaga: is it the gift you give yourself, or does it come from....elsewhere?
Rhiannon Dragoone: steve, depends on the dream
Paradise Tennant: smiles to feels like it is coming from without
Rhiannon Dragoone: Old Testament says God communicates to us in two ways--prophecy and dreams
Lucinda Lavender: feel it both ways
Paradise Tennant: do you ever feel like there is someone there in your dreams ?
Paradise Tennant: a presence ?
Ewan Bonham: Always..
Lucinda Lavender: a few times ...like a visitation by someone
Lucinda Lavender: but for me it is rare
Rhiannon Dragoone: Sometimes; sometimes not
Paradise Tennant: don't remember many but when I do there is a most often a sense of being with someone
Paradise Tennant: that I cannot see but feel
Ewan Bonham: Subtle but clear voice..
Paradise Tennant: yes
Ewan Bonham: Yes, more of a feeling...but with clear thoughts..
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me, sleep closing in
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, all this talk of dreaming. lol
Paradise Tennant: smiles may you have wonderful dreams :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: I should head out too; haven't made dinner yet
stevenaia Michinaga: night Ri
Paradise Tennant: nite nite Rhi :)
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy
Lucinda Lavender: have great dreams and dinners
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, steve, paradise
Rhiannon Dragoone: gtsy too
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye, Luc, Ewan
--BELL--
Ewan Bonham: Bye Rhi
Ewan Bonham: I too will be going...getting tired..
Paradise Tennant: nite nite Ewan thank you :)
Rhiannon Dragoone waves at dranna
Rhiannon Dragoone w aves and poofs
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves at dranna :)
Paradise Tennant: nite nite luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: night to all:)
Lucinda Lavender: bye for now dranna