2012.07.21 13:00 - How do we hold the unanswerable questions?

Bruce Mowbray was the guardian for this session and is responsible for the comments below. . .

A mix of joy from this morning's Grand Opening -- and a mix of profound sorrow from recent events in Colorado, and an anticipation of Aph's performance tomorrow. 

How do we 'hold' all of this?

To top it off, the auto-recorder broke down in the middle of the session -- which, I suppose, is one way of "dropping."

 

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Zon.

Zon Kwan: ji

Bruce Mowbray: Did you enjoy the Grand Opening?

Zon Kwan: it was nice yes

Bruce Mowbray: When I left the sim, there were 33 folks there -- most of us dancing.

Zon Kwan: lol

Zon Kwan: does it replace this one ?

Bruce Mowbray: Wol made a comment that he remembered when only 12 avi's would crash the whole sim! ha ha.

Bruce Mowbray: No no. It is in addition to this one!

Bruce Mowbray: I guess it is a special place for gatherings and events...

Bruce Mowbray: for pabbers.

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph!

Zon Kwan: hi Aph

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce

Bruce Mowbray: Did you enjoy the Grand Opening?

Aphrodite Macbain: :-) that was fun this morning wasn't it?

Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes!

Zon Kwan: the opening ?

Aphrodite Macbain: Nothing like dancing to loosen people up!

Aphrodite Macbain: yes Zon

Zon Kwan: yes it was

Bruce Mowbray: Well, that party that you attended today was called the Grand Opening, Zon.

Aphrodite Macbain: and it was grand

Bruce Mowbray: It was fun trying out several of the dance animations I'd not used for months.

Bruce Mowbray: I like your new shirt, Aph.

Aphrodite Macbain: yes - my sakkura shirt

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks!

Bruce Mowbray: "apple blossoms"?

Bruce Mowbray: or cherry blossoms?

Aphrodite Macbain: I guess so. It was one of the shirts in the gift box there

Bruce Mowbray: I must have missed that.

Aphrodite Macbain: cherry I think

Bruce Mowbray: yes, cherry, I'm remembering now.

Aphrodite Macbain: It was on the sign with the schedule

Bruce Mowbray makes a note to remember to learn how to read.

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: I hope you can come to the play tomorrow.

Bruce Mowbray: Definitely!

Aphrodite Macbain: You just need your headphones for that plus, of course, your screen

Bruce Mowbray: I will not be able to make the first performance, due to RL Quaker Meeting -- but will definitely be at the second one.

Bruce Mowbray: The opera will be in voice, then?

Aphrodite Macbain: great- get there a little before 3pm

Bruce Mowbray: kk. I will arrive early.

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Wol!

Wol Euler: evening all

Aphrodite Macbain: yes But it's a PLAY not an opera

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol

Zon Kwan: hi wol

Bruce Mowbray: The Marriage of Figaro ?

Aphrodite Macbain: yes-it is explained in the text I sent you.

Bruce Mowbray: oh -- again, Bruce makes another note to learn how to read.

Aphrodite Macbain: It was written as a play first by Beaumarchais, and THEN adapted into an opera by Mozart

Bruce Mowbray: kk. So you're doing the first version -- pre-Mozart.

Aphrodite Macbain: No way am I going to sing opera!

Aphrodite Macbain: yes

Bruce Mowbray: I would LISTEN to you sing, Aph!

Aphrodite Macbain: Mozart liked it so much.

Bruce Mowbray: (speaking of listening. . . )

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, 0!

Aphrodite Macbain: Then it was called The Marriage of Figaro

Wol Euler: hello sam

oO0Oo waves , settles and listens to catch the drift

Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Sam

Wol Euler catches the idea of opera and puts on "Zauberflöte"

Bruce Mowbray: Just discussing the Grand Opening this morning -- and Aph's PLAY tomorrow -- The Marriage of Figaro.

Bruce Mowbray: at which she will NOT be singing.

Bruce Mowbray: So, no real topic as yet.

Aphrodite Macbain: Well it's not called the Marriage of Figaro which was the name of the Mozart Opera

Zon Kwan: hi O

oO0Oo: Hi Zon gtsy

Aphrodite Macbain: It is called "An Evening with Baumarchais"

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I read that in your note.

Wol Euler: tomorrow at 8am! get your tickets now

Bruce Mowbray: actually.

Aphrodite Macbain: no 10 AM

Bruce Mowbray: Ooopppps. . .

Wol Euler: O.O

Aphrodite Macbain: and 3PM

Aphrodite Macbain: you all need glasses

Bruce Mowbray: I need tickets for the 3 p.m. performance?

Wol Euler: I must have misunderstood every single sentence you said to me yesterday.

Bruce Mowbray: ha ha ha!

Aphrodite Macbain: no tickets. Just turn up 5 minutes before with your audio ready

Wol Euler: okay :) tomorrow at 10am

Aphrodite Macbain: I think so

Bruce Mowbray: cool. Will do, Aph!

Bruce Mowbray: at 3 p.m.

Aphrodite Macbain: tomorrow. 10 AM and 3 pm

Bruce Mowbray: How many avis will be performing?

Aphrodite Macbain: play, not opera

Aphrodite Macbain: 6

Bruce Mowbray: Are you nervous?

Aphrodite Macbain: I have now worked it out so I no longer lose my hair or my clothes as I change costume

Aphrodite Macbain: so I am less nervous now!

Wol Euler: heheheh

Bruce Mowbray: No motorcycles to ride in this one?

Wol Euler: that's an advantage

Aphrodite Macbain: no Vespas either

Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Aphrodite Macbain: but one set change

Aphrodite Macbain: some music and some singing around the edges

Bruce Mowbray: wb, 0!

oO0Oo: thanks

Bruce Mowbray thinks: Only in Second Life.

Aphrodite Macbain: brb- sandwich

 

At this point, Bruce gives everyone an ice cream sandwich.

 

Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

oO0Oo: Some people must not eat in between SL sessions

Wol Euler: heheh, it's dripping

Bruce Mowbray: I admire your self-discipline, 0!

Wol Euler: one never knows when the famine years may strike.

Aphrodite Macbain: some people hardly get time to eat between sessions

 

Bell

 

Aphrodite Macbain: as the sessions all seem to link together

Bruce Mowbray would be happy to listen to anyone's thoughts on "listening" -- if anyone wishes to share them.

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi SS!

Wol Euler: hello sophia

Wol Euler: nice to see you again

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Sophia!

SophiaSharon Larnia: nice to see you too

oO0Oo: Hi SSL

Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps we can talk about the types of things we can listen to

SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks for the ice cream, Bruce :)

Bruce Mowbray: yw!

oO0Oo: how about both subjects *and* objects of listening?

Aphrodite Macbain: Like our body (hunger), our conscience (guilt), our enemies (values)

Bruce Mowbray listens . . .

oO0Oo: me hopes there is more to conscious than guilt

Bruce Mowbray: and more to body than hunger...

Aphrodite Macbain: No, it was just an example

Bruce Mowbray: but thank you for starting us off, Aph!

Aphrodite Macbain: conscience not conscious

Aphrodite Macbain: That looks good Wol

Bruce Mowbray: Yesterday, I listened to the grief in my guts... about the horrors in Aurora, Colorado . . and how susceptible America is to such horrors... almost taking them in stride, it seems.

Wol Euler: I'm surprised Bruce didn't offer you one too

Bruce Mowbray: I DID!!!!

Wol Euler: I thought as much :)

Bruce Mowbray: Aph missed it.

Wol Euler: check your IMs, Aph

Bruce Mowbray: yeah, gal.

Aphrodite Macbain: Grins. Thanks Bruce. perfect dessert

oO0Oo: maybe hunger can listen too.. interesting sometimes to experiment beyond "me", "mine", "I" .. imagining differently.. past possessions

Aphrodite Macbain: other people's hunger

Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! "Maybe hunger can listen." I love that, 0.

SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been keeping up with the reading and am having a bit of trouble with the subject/object perspectives

SophiaSharon Larnia: so will listen for now :)

Aphrodite Macbain: easier to eat an ice cream sandwich if you just listen :-)

Bruce Mowbray: I have this space (a sort of 'bag,' actually) that is somewhere in my middle -- and it holds the un-answerable questions . . Holds them for me.... so I don't have to hold them in my head.

SophiaSharon Larnia laughs, and wipes drippy ice cream off her leg

Aphrodite Macbain: Does it hurt when it gets full?

Bruce Mowbray: heh heh.

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, these sandwiches do tend to drip, don't they?

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it does hurt, Aph.

Bruce Mowbray: and it was hurting yesterday.

Wol Euler: well, shall we talk about subject/object, since that seems to come up fairly often?

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Wol, please!

Aphrodite Macbain: or when the problems are indigestible?

Bruce Mowbray ponders indigestible questions. . .

Bruce Mowbray: Is the "object" necessarily a "third-person" thing, Wol? or anyone?

Aphrodite Macbain: Wol, do you want to start then. I think I've been yakking a bit too much in email about this

Zon Kwan: subject object is good one

Bruce Mowbray: I recently suggested using the second person --

Zon Kwan: object = non subject

Bruce Mowbray: in thinking about virtually anything -- the tree, the bird, this blade of grass. . . "You..."

Wol Euler: well, I am at a bit of a disadvantage since I haven't kept up with the e-mail discussion

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi San

Santoshima: hiya

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi San

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!

Santoshima: friendly greetings everyone

Wol Euler: wb sam, and hello san

Santoshima: thanks for the ice cream, Bruce

SophiaSharon Larnia: in some ways that are difficult for me to articulate, I feel like the observer and the thing being observed

Bruce Mowbray: yw!

Wol Euler listens.

Santoshima: that sounds very well articulated SSL

SophiaSharon Larnia: I look at 'you' and am observing you, and in turn, 'you' are observing me. What is the object there?

 

Bell

 

Zon Kwan: gtg bye

SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zon

Aphrodite Macbain: waves atZon

Wol Euler: bye zon

SophiaSharon Larnia: the question makes me feel like Pooh of little brain, which is actually ok by me -  lol

Wol Euler: I have to admit that I am not sure how to describe the difference between subject and object, what I most clearly remember is Pema's insistence on the third term, the observer

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Kori!

Wol Euler: which science likes to leave out because it believes itself to be "objective"

Wol Euler: hello korel

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Korel

Korel Laloix: Heya

SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm yes

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Kori

Wol Euler: meaning uninfluenced by any considerations outside of subject or object, so (for those who believe in it) the observer is totally neutral and without effect

SophiaSharon Larnia: ok

Aphrodite Macbain: It is hard to describe objective. It is easier to describe subjective, which means it is from our own perspective, seen through our yes, interpreted though our own point of view.

Bruce Mowbray: There is a decided bias against the subjective in scientific circles. . . which Allen Wallace spoke of at length.

Wol Euler nods.

Aphrodite Macbain: it is supposed to be neutral, un biased by personal perspective. Something that stays the same

Bruce Mowbray: Phenomenology gives new life to the subjective. . . but always in relationship.

Wol Euler nods.

Korel Laloix: There are lots of things in scientific circles that are marginalized.

Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Kori.

Aphrodite Macbain: For example Kori?

Korel Laloix: Well, besides bias against silly things like minority and female researches.

Bruce Mowbray: When I try to describe the grief in the "bag" in my middle -- I have problems with articulating it in ways that could be considered "objective."

Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Kori.

Korel Laloix: There are more broad things like saying it is scientific to eliminate the idea of deity or the "super" natural.

Aphrodite Macbain: I would think what you feel about it is totally subjective, Bruce

Wol Euler: maybe not :)

Aphrodite Macbain: How can it be looked at objectively, Wol?

Korel Laloix: Science is an illusion in a lot of ways....

Wol Euler: to me "subjective" means that the result seen depends on the viewer

Aphrodite Macbain: yes, or the feeler

Korel Laloix: It is more just a current affair look at modern understanding.

Aphrodite Macbain: or the thinker

Bruce Mowbray: yes, Wol, and the conditions of the viewer at the time of the observation.

Wol Euler: if somebody else had the same subjective reaction to Bruce's 'bag', then they could IMHO consider themselves to be seeing it objectively

Korel Laloix: Today, science is as much politics as anything else.

Wol Euler: sadly, yes, Korel

Korel Laloix: today

Wol Euler: "scientists" who let themselves be bribed to say that cigarettes are not harmful, for example

Aphrodite Macbain: except to see it well, you would have to empathize with Bruce and therefore draw from subjective experiences...

Bruce Mowbray wonders if his "bag in the middle" is political -- feels that it is not at all political.

SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Aph

Wol Euler notes that her example was *extremely* subjective!

Aphrodite Macbain: grins

Korel Laloix: Or the ones that say there is consensus about anthropogenic global warming.... or against it.

Aphrodite Macbain: I empathize with that feeling- but subjectively only

Bruce Mowbray roots loudly for a subjective perspective.

SophiaSharon Larnia: heh

Wol Euler: there are two consensuses, though, that's the problem

Aphrodite Macbain: as long as you don't say it's objective, Bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: consensi?

Aphrodite Macbain: What do you mean Wol?

Bruce Mowbray wonders how his "bag in the middle" could possibly be "objective".

Wol Euler: both say (in principle) "I'm a scientist, here's my lab coat, see? so what I tell you is true"

Korel Laloix: I find even in my hard math classes, they do get subjective and political.

Wol Euler: there is a large consensus of scientists who say that manmade global warming is probably true

Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Wol.

Aphrodite Macbain wishes she didn't have a bag in the middle and vows to eat less bread

Wol Euler: there is also a smaller consensus of scientists who say that it is not

Korel Laloix: brb relog

SophiaSharon Larnia: I thinkk the recorder stopped

SophiaSharon Larnia: oh never mind

Wol Euler: wow

PaB Listener Master: Bruce Mowbray has just claimed the session and will receive link to the log after the session is done. This replaces any previous claim.

Wol Euler: that will be interesting. Hopefully it will have made two sessions

SophiaSharon Larnia: wasn't me!!

Bruce Mowbray: I just reclaimed, Wol. Hope that it works.

Wol Euler: fascinating. I wonder what stopped it.

Bruce Mowbray: Or else, I can just upload the whole thing into the wiki as a subjective impression from my "middle bag."

SophiaSharon Larnia grins

Aphrodite Macbain: so how to resolve the two fields of agreement, Wol?

Bruce Mowbray: Please allow me to clarify: The middle bag is for holding those unanswerable questions that cannot be viewed objectively.

Bruce Mowbray: and may only be FELT subjectively.

Aphrodite Macbain: I keep those in the back of my brain

Aphrodite Macbain: I already have too much around my stomach

Bruce Mowbray: and the holding them in the middle bag -- that's in order to honor the subjective experience of them.

Wol Euler: wb korel

Bruce Mowbray: because I feel it is valuable.

Korel Laloix smiles

Bruce Mowbray: You're talking about an objectively observable thing, Aph. I am talking about something else altogether.

 

Bell

 

Bruce Mowbray: I also have one of yours, though.

Aphrodite Macbain: I am?

Aphrodite Macbain: You are?

Bruce Mowbray: A few weeks ago, a young man of 15 asked me why there is so much suffering in the world.

Bruce Mowbray: Although I had several "pat answers" -- I chose instead to tell him what I do with unanswerable questions like his.

Bruce Mowbray: I told him I hold them..

Bruce Mowbray: I do not throw them away or brush them off.

Bruce Mowbray: I "hold" them in my 'middle bag.'

Bruce Mowbray: so I can observe them subjectively -- without having to have objective answers ....

SophiaSharon Larnia: that's a lot to hold

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is the weight of the whole world, actually.

Aphrodite Macbain: That's a lot to remember

Bruce Mowbray: . . . and yesterday, it was the whole weight of Aurora, Colorado.

Bruce Mowbray: It is not about remembering, really.

Bruce Mowbray: It is simply about "holding" the question.

Bruce Mowbray: Is this really that mysterious?

Aphrodite Macbain: and after a while that bag gets very heavy and uncomfortable if you don't try and deal with it Bruce

Bruce Mowbray: If I try to hold it anywhere else, then it would become unbearably heavy . . .

Bruce Mowbray: . . . and I think that might be what drove Jim Holmes to his brazen act yesterday morning.

Aphrodite Macbain: nods

Bruce Mowbray: Trying to hold it somewhere that he could not possibly do without going insane.

Aphrodite Macbain: too many unanswerable questions?

Bruce Mowbray: He was a grad student in neuro-biology.

Aphrodite Macbain: interesting

Wol Euler: I understand Bruce to mean that the feeling that he (Holmes) had to answer them, it was his responsibility to do so, that drove him to it. Correct?

Bruce Mowbray: Not really too many unanswerables -- just no place to hold them all.

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Wol.

Bruce Mowbray: Remember Zorba?

Wol Euler smiles.

Aphrodite Macbain: yes

Wol Euler: not in enough detail to intuit what you mean

Bruce Mowbray: "Why do the young die? Why does anyone die? If all your damn books don't tell you that, what the hell do they tell you?"

Aphrodite Macbain: He had no place to hold his questions?

Bruce Mowbray: . . . and the British intellectual answers: "They tell me about the agony of persons who cannot answer questions like yours."

Wol Euler smiles.

Aphrodite Macbain smiles

Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder why we feel that all the questions must be answered.

Wol Euler: exactly :)

SophiaSharon Larnia nods

Bruce Mowbray: So, having a place to hold those questions... can be sanity-saving.

Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps every so often we can give an enormous shrug and let the questions roll off

Wol Euler wonders whether San is writing a book, or crashing?

Santoshima: that could be Sam, Wol?

Bruce Mowbray: I wish someone had told me that I could 'hold' the unanswerables when I was 15 years old.

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Wol Euler: no, I see you constantly typing since about five minutes now

Santoshima: really?

Santoshima: weird

Wol Euler: mmhmm

SophiaSharon Larnia: me also, Bruce, although i suspect i would not have understood it

Bruce Mowbray: Aph -- That is the exact opposite of what I am suggesting.

Wol Euler: (anyway)

Bruce Mowbray: I am suggesting that we can "hold" them. . .

Aphrodite Macbain: I know

Bruce Mowbray: and also that we MUST hold them...

Aphrodite Macbain: And I suggest we drop all those questions

Bruce Mowbray: In a sense, I am responsible for all of the suffering in the world.

Bruce Mowbray: I am connected to it.

Aphrodite Macbain: ah. all the should's of the world are on your shoulders

Bruce Mowbray: and I feel that subjectively...

Wol Euler: I'd rather say something like "we have a duty to care about the suffering in the world"

Aphrodite Macbain: "Know when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em and when to walk away"

Aphrodite Macbain: Do what you can do

Wol Euler: because I do feel required to care about things that are not my immediate responsibility.

Aphrodite Macbain: but keep eating your ice cream

Wol Euler: that's where it gets tricky, Sophia :)

Bruce Mowbray wonders what we're listening to. . .

Wol Euler: what do to with the wrapper? Does it end up in that huge gyre of plastic waste that covers the middle Pacific Ocean?

SophiaSharon Larnia: you have to be able to go on

Aphrodite Macbain wonders what Bruce is hearing

Bruce Mowbray: oh, you can just brush that one off, Wol.... I mean, who really cares about the Pacific Ocean anyway, right?

Wol Euler hears nothing but typing, and some Mozart in RL

SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Santoshima: almost everything is wrapped in plastic, manufactured from plastic . it's an epidemic

Wol Euler nods.

Aphrodite Macbain hears birds

Bruce Mowbray: I have to be able to be compassionate -- hearing the suffering of the world -- and have a place to 'hold' all of that -- and still be able to "go on."

Aphrodite Macbain: Do you have to "hold" it in your body, Bruce?

Wol Euler: ah, and that is your listening?

Aphrodite Macbain: It can hurt and damage your body.

Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Aphrodite Macbain: I also hear crickets

Bruce Mowbray: I do not hold it in my body -- I cannot -- but I can hold it in the "bag in my middle" -- Can you stretch a bit to feel this?  It is subjective.

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, make it very tired and cranky

SophiaSharon Larnia: lol

SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)

 

Bell

 

Aphrodite Macbain: I would prefer to put it in a box on my desk

Bruce Mowbray: If that works for you, then by all means do so.

Bruce Mowbray: Can it still be a subjective experience if it is in the box on your desk?

Aphrodite Macbain: otherwise I would get sick and become useless. Perhaps if it became a bit more objective I would see it more clearly

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. kk.

Bruce Mowbray: My question is how to "see" the subjective more clearly.

Aphrodite Macbain: If it's tugging at my guts--- I may respond ineffectively

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I understand that.

Wol Euler nods.

Bruce Mowbray: But it seems to me to be in the quality of the "holding."

Bruce Mowbray: How one "holds" one's experience -- especially one's subjective experience. . .

Bruce Mowbray: I think this is what Pema is asking us to ask ourselves.

Bruce Mowbray: Explore the quality of your holding -- through "dropping".

SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting perspective, i had not considered that

SophiaSharon Larnia: oh ok

Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, that's what I was suggesting

Bruce Mowbray: I cannot speak for Pema, of course!

SophiaSharon Larnia: ;) I suspect perspective is the point

Bruce Mowbray: Ultimately, we might each have a slightly different way of holding - - For example, Alfred's might be different from Pema's. . .

Bruce Mowbray: and that is all right!

Bruce Mowbray: In fact, it is wonderful!!!

Aphrodite Macbain: yes, but all the holding is subjective

Bruce Mowbray: Aph holds stuff in a box on her desk and Bruce holds stuff in a bag in his middle -- and that's wonderful!

Bruce Mowbray: Yes!

Bruce Mowbray: All of this holding -- the sort I am talking about here -- is subjective.

Bruce Mowbray: Why are we not taught how to do this -- except in places like PaB?

Aphrodite Macbain: I don't know if it's wonderful. But as long as I have it available, to refer to from time to time, it can be useful and make me a more compassionate person without being miserable

Santoshima: we are taught to do this in yoga practice

Santoshima: it IS yoga practice

Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, San!!!

Bruce Mowbray: Thank you!

SophiaSharon Larnia: hmmm?

Santoshima: and in other body-based practices

Aphrodite Macbain: say more please?

Santoshima: self-study is the basis

Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec... brb. continue on, please.

Santoshima: nope I'll pipe up as necessary

Aphrodite Macbain: "we are taught to do this in yoga practice"

Bruce Mowbray: [back]

Aphrodite Macbain: Taught what exactly?

Aphrodite Macbain: to let go?

Santoshima: yoga practice uses body/breath awareness as a basis for self-knowledge

Santoshima: it's the same

Santoshima: dropping

Santoshima: is ongoing

Santoshima: experiential

Aphrodite Macbain: How does it help us deal with those problems and unanswerable questions that weigh us down?

SophiaSharon Larnia: integrating?

Santoshima: does that answer anything for you, SSL?

Santoshima: yes

Santoshima: integrating

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thank you

SophiaSharon Larnia: I started beginners' yoga finally, am still too self-conscious for that (no pun intended)

Santoshima: if the practice has any effect over time, it's effect is more groundedness

Bruce Mowbray: How do care-givers of "hopeless" patients continue on without getting weighed down? - - They learn to "hold" their experience differently.

Santoshima: yes

Santoshima: to witness

Aphrodite Macbain: Time for me to go. It was great being with you all. Please come tomorrow if you are included, It will be 45 minutes long and you will need your audio.

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph!

SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Aph, I so wish I could

Bruce Mowbray: Thank you for being here today!

Aphrodite Macbain: Byee

Bruce Mowbray: Break a leg!

Santoshima: bye aph

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes. break a leg! ;)

Aphrodite Macbain: Break a pixel

SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe

Bruce Mowbray: Wonders how Atlas managed to "hold the world"......

SophiaSharon Larnia: I need to go as well, bye for now!

Santoshima: bye

SophiaSharon Larnia: and thank you

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, SSL!

Santoshima: i hear music

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi and bye Vorder

Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Vorder!!

Vorder Forder: hello all

Wol Euler: bye sophia, hello vorder

Bruce Mowbray: We've just had a one-hour discussion, Vorder....

Bruce Mowbray: rather intense at times, for me, because I have been discussing matters very close to my heart.

Vorder Forder: I will be a silent listener

Wol Euler: /me nods.

Vorder Forder: it´s about that right?

Bruce Mowbray: It is perfectly all right to be a silent listener....

Bruce Mowbray: indeed, this is one of the ways we experience what is happening -- through our own silence.

Wol Euler: my dears, I must move on. It's been a long and tiring day for me

Bruce Mowbray: Alas, Wol. THANK YOU for being here today!

Wol Euler: goodnight all, may your bags be light and their straps not chafe you

Santoshima: peaceful evening, WOl ~ good to see you

Wol Euler: bye!

Santoshima: byebye

Bruce Mowbray: I feel that it is enormously important -- whether we can help each other carry the burdens of experience.

Bruce Mowbray: Yoga, I know, is one of the ways we can "carry" it all . . and Yoga is a quality method . . . without bias, and centered on subjective "awareness."

Santoshima: so many ways

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.

Santoshima: i better go ... more garden digging is required ... and that's another way.

Santoshima: peace on, everyone

Bruce Mowbray: I also need to go.

Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, San, and Kori, and Vorder!!!

Vorder Forder: thank you

Santoshima: thanks, Bruce

Santoshima: lovely to see everyone

[21:57] Santoshima: "No single answer can hold the truth of a good heart."
~Roshi Joan Halifax