2012.07.17 19:00 - Portable Experience Framing

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Lila
Lila Darkmatter: Hi, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: what play matters, oh dark one?
Lila Darkmatter: matters of discovery it seems...
Lila Darkmatter: have you been able to read some sessions this week?
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Storm
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, I've read several since Sunday
Storm Nordwind: Hi all
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Storm
Eos Amaterasu: Are there any threads or themes you'd like to keep following?
Lila Darkmatter: I am curious to see what "systematic" may mean in weeks ahead
Lila Darkmatter: when it comes to charting our play
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, have a reference frame, take notes (even tho the reference frame itself emerges...)
Lila Darkmatter: so catching the frame, too?
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Kori
Korel Laloix: Bozho
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Kori
Storm Nordwind: The frame is, for me, the major thing under playful/systematic investigation
Eos Amaterasu: yes, that seems part of the question of including the subject in its observation
Lila Darkmatter: yes that makes sense... surely not to gather just more data/content
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, to sensemake where no one has gone before (at least re the scientific community)
Eos Amaterasu: to extend or draw a frame there
Storm Nordwind: And the frame, I see, is a carrying frame, able to port the experiences and ideas to other contexts, people and even understandings
Eos Amaterasu: hi stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Stevenaia
Storm Nordwind: Hi Steve
Eos Amaterasu: if those other contexts can get into the frame, or see through the frame....
Eos Amaterasu: I think, for example, that Alfred and Pema have different framings of where scientific endeavor can extend to
Eos Amaterasu: but also it's partly a matter of different domain experience
Lila Darkmatter: different nets?
Eos Amaterasu: different nets, and also different fish
Storm Nordwind: And, it seems, different bait!
Eos Amaterasu: yes,,. as you said in a previous session, mind follows intent
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
Lila Darkmatter: so to some extent *everyone* must be doing their own exploration
Lila Darkmatter: rather than completely trying to get on the same page... yet some page can overlap one would hope/like...

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: yes, it's like multiple Mullah Nasruddins each looking where their own lamp shines
Eos Amaterasu: where the pages overlap for some period of time you have a framework for community exploration
Storm Nordwind: So it seems that Play as Being succeeded in being accessible (something that I heartily applaud), but made no headway with portability. Though maybe neither were Pema's intention.
Eos Amaterasu: headway with portability => ?
Storm Nordwind: To have "a framework for community exploration", there has to be some way of porting the understanding of group experiences between one person and another. The lack here is the common terminology that Alfred refers to.
Lila Darkmatter: maybe we're just now beginning
Storm Nordwind: Yes. Pioneers :)
Eos Amaterasu: we're still pre-scientific!
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Storm Nordwind: haha yes!
Lila Darkmatter: that's funny... on the way here, I was bitten by a dinosaur...
Eos Amaterasu: yikes!
Lila Darkmatter laughs
Lila Darkmatter: but 'true' inasmuch as SL is true
Eos Amaterasu: (hi Claire)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi, Claire
stevenaia Michinaga: if we each take the success with us and use it in new ways outside the group, does that not make it portable?
Storm Nordwind: We've followed the gold rush with no notion of what to do with what we've found, or how to transport it to other places where it may be valued.
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, interesting....
Eos Amaterasu: (gotta get those snow globes manufactured.... :-)
Claire Maskelyne: Hello, everyone.
Lila Darkmatter: that's a good point and question Stevenaia ... Maybe a matter of feedback and communication from the wider field into the group of where that happens
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Claire, gtsy
Claire Maskelyne: And you, too. :)
Lila Darkmatter: snow globe glass celing
Eos Amaterasu: circulation
Storm Nordwind: Welcome back Claire
Lila Darkmatter: circulation, yes
stevenaia Michinaga: much of the group and how we communicated here rubs off on us and follows us
Lila Darkmatter: I was asking myself yesterday if I am a better listener than I was 3 years ago...
Storm Nordwind: What did the listenometer say? :)
Lila Darkmatter: well, I noticed that I still have gaping blind spots
Lila Darkmatter: but that I see that more clearly now
Eos Amaterasu: not fixating, fixing, seems related to listening
Eos Amaterasu: listen by not doing
Eos Amaterasu: coming up, for 90 seconds :-)
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I think it's not important to try to "listen" : it's enough to notice when you're not listening
Eos Amaterasu: listen by noticing when you're doing

--BELL--

Lila Darkmatter: it is just astounding at times to think one has paid attention, only to miss so much...
stevenaia Michinaga: I find when you don't have anything to say, listening to many is easier for me
Lila Darkmatter: see that in the session logs at times, humbling
Eos Amaterasu thinks, listening: luminary darkmatter
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Lila Darkmatter: is there a direct connection to listening and memory? Is someone with a good memory a better listener?
Storm Nordwind: I think not
Eos Amaterasu: probably.... their intention can lead the mind of memory
Eos Amaterasu: deep listening is intentional
Storm Nordwind: My ex had the best memory I know of anyone, but if you dare repeat yourself, she would show herself to be a ... er... difficult listener ;)
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Lila Darkmatter: memory may get in the way of listening, too, I guess
Storm Nordwind: My memory has colored my experience it seems!
Eos Amaterasu: 'been there, heard that'

Claire Maskelyne: I actually think about this a lot.
Storm Nordwind: Oh Claire?
Claire Maskelyne: It's something of a source of worry because I feel that if I am 'fully present', I should remember everything I'm processing in that moment.
Storm Nordwind: Do you think that's a reasonable expectation?
Claire Maskelyne: If I don't have a detailed memory, I question the reality of the situaiton, or how 'truly' I was paying attention.
Claire Maskelyne: I don't know what's reasonable in this situation.
Claire Maskelyne: I only know that's what I expect from myself.
Lila Darkmatter: can relate to that

stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes jsut being touched by a moment is enough, no need to keep it

Storm Nordwind: I had to foresake that expectation in myself many years ago :)
Lila Darkmatter: :) stevie
Storm Nordwind: Instead I let experiences "change the shape" of what I am
Storm Nordwind: So I do sympathize with the expectation
Lila Darkmatter: nods... I really get this too... would like the 'show' the other/s that I hear them but often process in different and seemingly disconnected ways
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, we kind of miss each other as we speak connections
Eos Amaterasu: re-reading a log can be humbing, indeed :-)
Storm Nordwind: yes!
Eos Amaterasu: *humbling
Lila Darkmatter: once, someone related a dream and when I related it back to them I added feathers... there were no feathers in there ... but I was sure there were, hah
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: feathers in shunyata
Storm Nordwind: If I'm typing slowly, and the conversation is boisterous, I may miss stuff.
Lila Darkmatter: :)

Korel Laloix: The thing is though that you are making an assumption that people want to be heard and understould... oftern people just talk to fill silence or by intent say things that they don't mean.
Claire Maskelyne: I guess what I really wish is to be able to truly feel the presence of another person, and for them to feel mine.
Korel Laloix: SO just becuase someone says somthing, does not give you an oblication to listen.
Lila Darkmatter: nice, yes
Lila Darkmatter: maybe in those cases people aren't used to being heard Kori?
Korel Laloix: COuld be... there are people that expect to be ignored for sure.
Korel Laloix: Or think that they can say antying as not one listens.
Lila Darkmatter nods
Lila Darkmatter: do think Claire hit the heart with "presence"
Lila Darkmatter looks for chart ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: appreciate the presence of others

--BELL--

Storm Nordwind: Like Claire, I tend to do the presence thing naturally too, and I notice occasionally some people recoil from the possibility of such "intimacy".
Korel Laloix: Sometimes I loathe the presence of particular others.
Eos Amaterasu: appreciate the loathing
Lila Darkmatter: it can be, I guess in the way that someone may not be acclimated to being heard or really listened to, rather overwhelming to be in 'presence'
Korel Laloix: I'd find it ... not sure the word... when you ask someone who is used to being completel ignored for their input.
Lila Darkmatter nods
Storm Nordwind: The other thing that can happen is that some people warm up so much in this brilliant searchlight of presence that gets shone on them, that when you take it away and focus on someone else, they feel a great sense of loss.
Eos Amaterasu: requires real listening, Korel
Eos Amaterasu: on the part of the others
Lila Darkmatter: trying to remember Pema's stable person story...
Lila Darkmatter: about the stable boy who was really a prince but could not handle that.. so was hired bit by bit to do other jobs...
Lila Darkmatter: to come closer...
Eos Amaterasu: the oppressed have no voice
Eos Amaterasu: the voice must come from darkness
Lila Darkmatter: mmm
Eos Amaterasu: blackbird fly
Lila Darkmatter: *
stevenaia Michinaga: night my firends
Lila Darkmatter: Night Stevenaia
Eos Amaterasu: 'night, stevie
Storm Nordwind waves
Lila Darkmatter: me too... thank you very much for your time and presence :)
Lila Darkmatter: Night
Eos Amaterasu: 'night, Lila :-)
Storm Nordwind: Night Lila
Claire Maskelyne: Good night, everyone. Thank you for being here with me.
Storm Nordwind: A pleasure, Claire :)
Eos Amaterasu: good night, Claire, thank you!
Claire Maskelyne: And thank you, too!

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: thank you Storm and Korel, good night!
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Eos.
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now Korel :)
Korel Laloix: Ciao