2012.11.22 13:00 - We are our own In-Vaders

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce! :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Eliza and Ahoy! I'm rezzing here for sec....
Eliza Madrigal: sure
Lukey Woodget: Hi
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Lukey!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lukey!
Bruce Mowbray feels there's something VERY familiar about this Lukey dude.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hoy Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph!
Bruce Mowbray: Lukey, sry!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza, Lukey
Eliza Madrigal: Lukey I saw that you brought pab into a quiz one day -much enjoyed :)
Lukey Woodget: Hi Aphro
Aphrodite Macbain: A quiz?
Lukey Woodget: hehe
Bruce Mowbray listens intently/.
Aphrodite Macbain: can I play?
Bruce Mowbray: Me too!
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Eliza Madrigal: :) Lukey gives quizzes in SL sometimes... very fun but I don't mean to put him on the spot
Bruce Mowbray: Oh PUT him on the spot, Liz!
Aphrodite Macbain: is there an LM?
Lukey Woodget: its a shame realy its only for vai
Eliza Madrigal: understand.. but it is very clever
Lukey Woodget: lol you will make my head swell
Eliza Madrigal: ^^

Heartbreak...

Eliza Madrigal: have just set Night Train to Lisbon down to come to session.... reached a heartbreaking part...was a good time to set the book down
Aphrodite Macbain: oh? Is it a sad book?
Bruce Mowbray: OH MY, what was that hearbreaking ppart, if I might ask, please?
Bruce Mowbray: No, it is not entirely a sad book -- just a very introspective one.
Eliza Madrigal: it is beautiful but sadness is part of the authenticity

Lukey Woodget: oh I got a animation from youtube that will break your heart
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah. I dont need a sad book today
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: ((Aph)))
Aphrodite Macbain: (((Eliza)))
Bruce Mowbray used to go to sad movie in order to get himself to cry -- when he needed a good cry.
Eliza Madrigal: it had to do with a chess set, Bruce... all I will say in case others pick it up :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori!
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, thanks, Eliza.
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Kori!
Aphrodite Macbain: aww. you couldn't just cry in the shower?
Aphrodite Macbain: Osiyo Koria
Bruce Mowbray: Had to prime the pump, Aph.

(the following was a phrase from the book)

Eliza Madrigal: :) carwash for the soul
Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Bruce Mowbray: Sort of like trying to write poetry, if you get my gist.
Aphrodite Macbain: where would you write sad poetry?

You must see...

Lukey Woodget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOMbySJTKpg

Korel Laloix: Anyplace with country music and taquilla.
Lukey Woodget: if this dont make you cry then you are not human
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe an Irish pub
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Bruce Mowbray watches the YouTube vid.
Aphrodite Macbain: waits
Lukey Woodget: :) it is amazing
Zon Kwan: heya
Bruce Mowbray: OH! It is 12 minutes long!!!
Bruce Mowbray will bookmark and watch it later.
Qt Core: hi all!
Zon Kwan: what are you watching ?
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes me too
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Lukey Woodget: it is one of the best animations i have seen from a small company for ages
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon and Qt and Xiri !
Lukey Woodget: Hi all
Eliza Madrigal: from the little peek I can see it is well done... looking forward to that
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Zon!

Lukey Woodget: can i ask a question please
Zon Kwan: can you give the link once more ?
Lukey Woodget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOMbySJTKpg
Zon Kwan: thx :)
Lukey Woodget: :) its a lovely film
Bruce Mowbray: "Zero"
Lukey Woodget: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I look forward to watching it, Lukey.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Mick!
Lukey Woodget: its about a person who is belived to be worth nothing
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Qt!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :( Lukey
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Mik, Ara
Zon Kwan: mickey
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick and Ara!
Zon Kwan: araa
Eliza Madrigal: because they don't 'fit', Lukey?
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Xir!
Zon Kwan: how can nothing be something..starts nicely
Aphrodite Macbain: this is very sad
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, ara!
Xirana Oximoxi: :)

Lukey Woodget: yes becuse people say they are nothing
Lukey Woodget: but it has a happy ending
Aphrodite Macbain: thank god
Eliza Madrigal: >whew<

Lukey Woodget: it makes me ball like a baby
Bruce Mowbray looks forward to the happy ending.
Zon Kwan: loves happy endings

Mickorod Renard: I think the joy of being nothing means you are like re born as a new sheet

Lukey Woodget: does anybody have any ghost stories from there home town
Eliza Madrigal: beginners mind seems something different than not being recognized, heard, seen...
Aphrodite Macbain: I dont have a home town sniff
Bruce Mowbray: I have spent this entire day reading through personal Journals. . . and have had a few teary episodes, but ALL with happy endings, I am glad to report.
Aphrodite Macbain: yayy
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyy!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice, Bruce. your own letters from the years?
Aphrodite Macbain: Happy thanksgiving
Wol Euler: evening all
Aphrodite Macbain: hey wol
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, HAPPY THANKGIVING all to Americans out there!

--BELL--

Lukey Woodget: is it thanks giving today?
arabella Ella nods
Bruce Mowbray: (Hey, Wol, he said after the gong went off.... sry.)
Aphrodite Macbain: in the USofA
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Wol:)
Zon Kwan: hm..being regoconized...by who ?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol!
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol!
Zon Kwan: wollie
Aphrodite Macbain: awww- it's all about soulmates

Lukey Woodget: I think people should give other people more slack people today are so wound up

Eliza Madrigal: regarding recognition, often people carry hidden needs for acknowledgement for years and years in hidden ways
arabella Ella: and Happy Thanksgiving to all of you in the U. S. of A.
Bruce Mowbray: Nawwww.. It's all about solitude.
Wol Euler: hiya, happy thanksgiving
Lukey Woodget: what food do you get on thanksgiving
Zon Kwan: yes EIiza, but what has that to do with beginners mind ?
Bruce Mowbray: You mean the traditional stuff, Lukey?
Aphrodite Macbain is not clear what is being discussed
Zon Kwan: lol
Lukey Woodget: yes do you get a duck
arabella Ella: they get turkey Lukey
Bruce Mowbray: You better believe that they carry such stuff, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: :) well it went from one line to another... not sure I can trace the breadcrumbs today
Lukey Woodget: we have turky at xmass

Zon Kwan: is there a common topic ?

arabella Ella: us too Luckey
Bruce Mowbray: Turkey, for the fortunate carnivores, . . .
Aphrodite Macbain: where Lukey?
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens.
Lukey Woodget: In England
Lukey Woodget: We have turky for xmass
arabella Ella: most of europe
Bruce Mowbray: No turkeys in England, except in the government.
Lukey Woodget: we dont have it many other times
Aphrodite Macbain: turkeys are for many people
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Lukey Woodget: its quite a big bird :)
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed!
Wol Euler: very few Europeans have an oven big enough to roast a turkey
Wol Euler: at least not the monsters I remember from my childhood
Wol Euler: as big as labradors they were.
arabella Ella: some of us have to have a large enough oven Wol
Lukey Woodget: my oven can fit one in i must be lucky

Bruce Mowbray: Many Americans imagine themselves to be Texans --- so have big ovens and bog appetites.
arabella Ella: for turkey at chreistmas
Qt Core: and very few european shop carry entire turkey
Bruce Mowbray: big*
Eliza Madrigal kinda likes bog appetites...hehe great typo
arabella Ella: ah Qt your style at christmas is very different
Bruce Mowbray: HAAAA!
Lukey Woodget: i got a bog appitite :)
Bruce Mowbray: Appetites up to their knees in the bog!
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm glad Zero lived happily eer after with a person of his own colour...

arabella Ella: i think turkey at christmas is a british tradition
Lukey Woodget: yes
arabella Ella: and plum pudding
Bruce Mowbray definitely makes a note to watch that YouTube vid.
Lukey Woodget: beause of the cristmass carrol film
Aphrodite Macbain: and two babies shaped like infinity
Aphrodite Macbain: oo
Bruce Mowbray: That always beats the Dickens out of me!
Lukey Woodget: pigs in blankets :)
arabella Ella: eh?
Aphrodite Macbain: laughs- very British
Aphrodite Macbain: an english version of the hotdog
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Lukey Woodget: thats sosage with bacon wraped
Mickorod Renard: i love pigs in blankets
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Mick!
Aphrodite Macbain: warm little porkers
arabella Ella: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
Aphrodite Macbain: How's Milano?
Qt Core: hi Aph
Lukey Woodget: but at xmass i ent up feeling like a pig in blanket
Qt Core: still here ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Aphrodite Macbain: Wol, thank you for being the token dull person; it takes the responsibility off my shoulders
Wol Euler chuckles.
Wol Euler: my work here is done.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
 

What did Scrooge know of Dickens...

Bruce Mowbray: Aside: DO the characters created by authors know anything of their authors? Does Scrooge know anything of Dickens, for example?

arabella Ella: mmmmmm
Bruce Mowbray: sry.
Wol Euler: hmmmm, intriguing idea
Aphrodite Macbain: Do we ever really know anything about our makers?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it has several implications.
Lukey Woodget: what is for pudding
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Aph has it.
Aphrodite Macbain: pumpkin or apple pie
Aphrodite Macbain: I got pie tooo
Aphrodite Macbain: what other implications Bruce?
Mickorod Renard: what are the implications Bruce?
Lukey Woodget: apple pie with cinemin in it ?
Eliza Madrigal: fantastic question :)
Aphrodite Macbain: snap!
Bruce Mowbray: That the "created" could know of its "Creator"?
Aphrodite Macbain: or not

arabella Ella: yes Bruce what if Scrooge knew of Dickens ... and what if he did not?
Bruce Mowbray: or not know.
Bruce Mowbray: (snapparooo!)
arabella Ella smiles
Zon Kwan: can they be separated
Eliza Madrigal: right
Aphrodite Macbain: we are just snapping and cracckling
Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Zon

Bruce Mowbray: If the created could know of its creator, then perhaps the created might influence its Creator to create otherwise. . .
Lukey Woodget: I like the film scrooge with that star trek bloke in it
Bruce Mowbray: ? Star Trek bloke!?
Qt Core: Patrick Steward i think
Wol Euler is partial to the retelling of it with Bill Murray as the antihero
Aphrodite Macbain: dont know that particular one
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: enjoyed taking the kids to the play a few years ago
Bruce Mowbray: Captain Petard.
Lukey Woodget: jhon luke picarde
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Lukey Woodget: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Petard!!
Aphrodite Macbain: the great farter
Lukey Woodget: im dislexic sorry
Bruce Mowbray: Oh mY!@!!!
Wol Euler: too much tea does that.
Aphrodite Macbain: Le grand peteeeeeur

--BELL--

Wol Euler: you're doing fine, lukey, no worries
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, I';ll bet that it's the tea!
Bruce Mowbray: (no worries, Lukey . . . ) Bruce drops all worries.

arabella Ella: Let's all drop all our worries now then!
Bruce Mowbray: !!

Lukey Woodget: do americans drink tea
Bruce Mowbray: Good one, ara!
Korel Laloix: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: only when they have to, Lukey.
Aphrodite Macbain: they drink lots of tea!
Eliza Madrigal: yes they do !
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
arabella Ella: hot or cold tea?
Lukey Woodget: I was watching on youtube and it was showing about pine needle tea
Aphrodite Macbain: both
arabella Ella: and with milk?
Aphrodite Macbain: green especially
Bruce Mowbray recalls "Constant Comment" -- his favorite tea.
Lukey Woodget: it said it has loads of vit c in it

Eliza Madrigal: just today I've had three cups of hot tea... with dipping cookies on one occasion
Aphrodite Macbain: mmm
Wol Euler: luxury!
Aphrodite Macbain: home made?
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes with milk... not green tea though
Eliza Madrigal: alas, no not homemade :)
Aphrodite Macbain: tea with jasmine- my fave
Lukey Woodget: I have green tea with milk and honney
Lukey Woodget: im a bit odd thouth i try all sorts
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.bigelowtea.com/Catalog/Pr...ent%C2%AE.aspx

Aphrodite Macbain: can you taste the tea?
Aphrodite Macbain: Lukey?
Bruce Mowbray: I can only taste the gin -- at the moment.
Lukey Woodget: oh yes
Aphrodite Macbain: sighs. Bruce- you will get gout if you don't stop drinking that gin
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, you
Bruce Mowbray: 're probably right about that.
Bruce Mowbray: Should shift to the teas, perhaps.
Aphrodite Macbain: very painful I am told
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: My best friend had the gout -- and then he died.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe year to drop the gin and fil with tea

Lukey Woodget: drinking is a hard problem to solve
Bruce Mowbray: Really?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. you need a substitute
Lukey Woodget: drink makes you feel so good
Zon Kwan: likes the ending.., two zeros create infinity
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm.
Aphrodite Macbain: me too Zon
Bruce Mowbray: I wil definitely make a note to watch that vid.

Eliza Madrigal: promise it is happy at the end???
Zon Kwan: hehe
Wol Euler: what was the URL please?
Aphrodite Macbain: leave it on yr screen till you close out of SL
Zon Kwan: zero was never defeated
Lukey Woodget: it a odd thing we all want to find happeyness
Zon Kwan: as he knew we contained infinity
Eliza Madrigal smiles

Bruce Mowbray: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOMbySJTKpg
Wol Euler: ty

Lukey Woodget: if we was to find perfect happyness we would stand there till we died
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
Eliza Madrigal: hehehehe
Eliza Madrigal: nooo :) I hope that is a myth
Aphrodite Macbain: we would never be content for long..
Bruce Mowbray: Or "perfect" ANYthing!
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps happiness is the most energizing thing
Bruce Mowbray: Hapiness is energizing, to be sure.
Zon Kwan: happines is balancing
Lukey Woodget: no plesure without pain
Lukey Woodget: as the saying goes
Zon Kwan: tightropewalk
Bruce Mowbray: No pain no gain?
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm sounds like a work out video
Zon Kwan: diagrees

Bruce Mowbray: For me it's not so much a matter of "gain" as of depth.
Eliza Madrigal: we're often willing to endure pain for satisfaction.. sense of having done something well or worthwhile
Bruce Mowbray listens
Zon Kwan: no pleasure without pain
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos!
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Eos!
arabella Ella: Hiya Eos!
Wol Euler: hello eos
Zon Kwan: eos
Mickorod Renard: ayup Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Hey and hi to all!
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Eos
Wol Euler nods to eliza
Qt Core: hi Eos
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Eos:)

Eos Amaterasu smiles while decelerating
Eliza Madrigal: our official topic is :filling up" Eos but we've been talking turkey... and happiness... and two zeros that meet
Bruce Mowbray: Oooops.. Bue, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: I must run
Aphrodite Macbain: byee
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, then!
Eliza Madrigal: okay... be well Aph, nice to see you
Wol Euler: bye aph, take care

Lukey Woodget: the years i have had being able to pick what i eat and to sleep in a safe place at night
arabella Ella: bye Aph
Eos Amaterasu: talking turkey?
Lukey Woodget: how lucky am i
Xirana Oximoxi: I must go to...nice time to all! :-)
Mickorod Renard: bye aph
Eliza Madrigal: well, more so pie...
Mickorod Renard: bye Xir
Bruce Mowbray: We DID talk turkey earlier, Eos....
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you Xiri :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Xir!
arabella Ella: bye xirana
Wol Euler: bye xir

Lukey Woodget: so does anybody have any ghost stories from there home town
arabella Ella: not actual ghost stoeries Lukey but there are places which I feel have spirits in them which make my skin feel funny
Lukey Woodget: yes i have had that to
Eos Amaterasu hmms
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art58163.asp
Eliza Madrigal: the Biltmore Hotel is our hub for such stories :)
Lukey Woodget: I had a house one time i went into and started having nose bleeds
Wol Euler smiles.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray continues to listen.
arabella Ella: i would never go to live in a very old house
Eos Amaterasu: (where arabella lives, old means really really old)
Lukey Woodget: I think its the stone
Qt Core: i think there are more ghost/monster in my computers than in my old if not ancient house ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: ghosts are maybe book characters who can't rest until they know more of their creators, bruce (re your question earlier)...
Mickorod Renard: there are some that believe that the spirits of the dead will make a route back to their homes from the graveyard
Lukey Woodget: some stone houses seem to put a pressure on me
Wol Euler: heheh, nice one eliza
Bruce Mowbray: So, let's say -- a cornfield that gets harvested every year wo9uld have fewer ghosts than an old house?
Mickorod Renard: in two spiral routes
Eos Amaterasu is getting dizzy
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lukey Woodget: I dream too much in the night
Eliza Madrigal: on the topic of recognition - something else we touched - I dreamed - last night - that I talked to my first college english professor - someone who had been a bit sharp with me, and he said my writing had matured. I felt 20 years lift... like some place in me couldn't rest until I had his approval
Lukey Woodget: about ghosts
arabella Ella: @Brucie depends what happened in the cornfield in the past
Eos Amaterasu: :-), E
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: OH! That is great, Eliza -- 20 years "lift"!
Zon Kwan: or perhaps you appreoved yourself Eliza..
Eliza Madrigal: was such a nice dream... but strange, one wouldn't think they were so preoccupied
Eliza Madrigal: :) Zon, maybe so
Eos Amaterasu: the professor is within you without you
Eliza Madrigal: !
Bruce Mowbray: !
Eliza Madrigal: ghosts :)
Zon Kwan: smiles
Bruce Mowbray ponders authority figures.

arabella Ella: do you have any good ghost stories Luckey?
Lukey Woodget: I think we are are own worst enemys
Eos Amaterasu ponders how we live inside each other
Bruce Mowbray: and , perhaps, our own best friends?
Eliza Madrigal: :) nods
Zon Kwan: reflecting, reflecting, reflecting.,,
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Lukey Woodget: yes we have to find are good side
Lukey Woodget: hehe its like starwars
Lukey Woodget: maybe this is where good and evil first started
Zon Kwan: and know our dark side...
arabella Ella: where?
Lukey Woodget: in are own selfs
Wol Euler nods.

arabella Ella: can there be good without evil or evil without good?

Eos Amaterasu: we are our own in-Vaders
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Zon Kwan: lol
Bruce Mowbray wonders where else the good and the evil might have their beginning -- except in ourselves.
Eliza Madrigal giggling
Eos Amaterasu: maybe that's part of how Being plays
Wol Euler chuckles.
Bruce Mowbray: In-Vaders ===== ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: in a gaming analogy my son said to me "you blame 'them' or your blame 'you' or you blame the situation (ie computer failure of some sort) - but not blaming didn't seem realistic to him
Zon Kwan: good to air frustation out
Zon Kwan: lol
Eos Amaterasu: there's blaming, and there's recognizing cause and effect (karma)

Bruce Mowbray: not-blaming is "unrealistic," Eliza?
arabella Ella: could he not simply say 'it happened' without attributing any blame Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: :) well I asked if he could see that that was just the design of the game
Eliza Madrigal: that particular game
Lukey Woodget: yes zon very good

Wol Euler: sounds like there is no room for "shit happens" aka emergent properties, in his view?
Eliza Madrigal: but he sort of looked at me as though I were innocent about the gaming world, lol
Qt Core: time to go, bye all
Zon Kwan: shit is good for plants
Bruce Mowbray ponders alternative universes of gaming worlds.
Eliza Madrigal: bye qt, nice to see you :)
Mickorod Renard: thats wierd Wol, i was just thinking of the word shit
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Qt!
Mickorod Renard: bye QT
arabella Ella: ciao Qt buona notte!
Eos Amaterasu: thinking happens

Wol Euler: perhaps that is related to the performance aspect of gaming? you need to know what happened, and who made it happen, to know how to better next time

Bruce Mowbray tries to get his mind out of the colon.
Eliza Madrigal: such a good point Ara
Mickorod Renard: I missed that, what did Ara say?
Eos Amaterasu: what is the extra that blame piles on top of cause and effect?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Wol! it was wol...hehe...
Eliza Madrigal: sorry wol and thank you, such a good point :)
Bruce Mowbray: [13:54] arabella Ella: could he not simply say 'it happened' without attributing any blame Eliza?
Wol Euler: we do look alike :)
arabella Ella: i thought you meant wol
arabella Ella: ?me smiles
Eos Amaterasu: ah, emergent shit
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: wel it sort of went together

Wol Euler: if (whatever happened) was truly random, then there is no way to prepare for it and no chance to improve your playing. In gaming terms, that is a bad experience
Bruce Mowbray: How about in life terms, Wol?
Eliza Madrigal listens
arabella Ella: very interesting perspective Wol indeed
Wol Euler: well, life isn't that closely regulated :)
Eos Amaterasu: chaordic

--BELL--

Wol Euler: games are about rules, and most rules exist to let players improve
Bruce Mowbray scurries to get tea.
Zon Kwan: waves
Mickorod Renard: i thought rules are for breaking
arabella Ella: i must go get some sleep good night everyone!

arabella Ella: dont forget to break some rules after all it is thanksgiving!
Wol Euler: bye ara, bye mick, take care
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I am off home,,see you soon...bless you all
Eliza Madrigal: :))) bye Ara, Mick
Eliza Madrigal: wish you well

Eos Amaterasu: must go make fire, food, and other dangerous things...
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, everyone who is leaving!
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza Madrigal: :) breaking rules and making fires...
Eos Amaterasu: bye, happy thanksgiving
Eliza Madrigal: bye Eos :) be careful out there/in there
Eos Amaterasu: & remember: "gratitude is heaven itself" - Blake
Wol Euler: heheheh
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Blake on that one -- about gratitude.
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Bruce Mowbray: Gratitude and forgiveness.
Bruce Mowbray: Two sides of the "heaven" coin.
Wol Euler: hehe, just noticed "fire, food, and other dangerous things"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, fire can be dangerous -- post-Prometheus.
Wol Euler: but food?

Bruce Mowbray: Food -- NOT dangerous!
Wol Euler: depends how you use it, I guess
Bruce Mowbray: Yum Yum!
Eliza Madrigal: depends on your drug..er, food of choice
Bruce Mowbray: True of everything, no?
Wol Euler: perhaps :)
Bruce Mowbray: Too much sunshine....?
Bruce Mowbray: Too much rain . .. ?
Wol Euler: in the long term, anything can be deadly ...
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.

Bruce Mowbray: and in the LONGGGGGG term, everything IS deadly!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: also true :)
Wol Euler: the mortality rate of being alive is 100%
Bruce Mowbray: You have it right, Wol!
Bruce Mowbray: Let us then be up and doing, with a heart for any fate!
Bruce Mowbray: Still achieving, still pursuing,
Bruce Mowbray: learn to labor and to wait!
Eliza Madrigal: or let us be doing without doing before it is too late....
Bruce Mowbray: (Longfellow)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: nice
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry for the interruption Longfellow) :D

Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, by not doing, everything gets done.
Bruce Mowbray: I'll go with that!

Lukey Woodget: it is hard for people to work together
Bruce Mowbray listens to Lukey.
Eliza Madrigal: it is - why is that?
Bruce Mowbray: yes, why?
Lukey Woodget: its natures way of breaking us apart
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: Competition?
Eliza Madrigal: sending us back to the soil?
Bruce Mowbray: Survival of the fittest?
Lukey Woodget: we are only a small part of the goal of nature

Wol Euler: In my experience working together is easy IF all parties agree on who is the boss
Lukey Woodget: and we will be devided
Wol Euler: if two want to be boss, there will be trouble
Lukey Woodget: there should be no boss
Wol Euler: well, let'
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps solitude is the best policy.
Wol Euler: let's say "they have to agree on who gives the direction"
Eliza Madrigal: then it is always push n pull?
Lukey Woodget: nature divides and concers us

Wol Euler: because if you row towards the left bank and I towards the right, we will only get wet
Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes having a dictator to tell me what to do would seem like a blessing.
Eliza Madrigal: benevolent dictator :)
Bruce Mowbray: It would overcome the pulls within myself.
Bruce Mowbray: Tearing myself apart.

Lukey Woodget: yes but a blessing becuse you cant sit and make the best desisions in a groupe
Bruce Mowbray recalls Erich Fromm's "Flight From Freedom"

Or unties..

Eliza Madrigal: or something/someone that unites the pulls.. isn't that the notion behind nonduality? Tao?
Bruce Mowbray: Does any group actually make a decision, Lukey?
Eliza Madrigal: where the pulls "didn't bite each other" like Pema says sometimes

Wol Euler: hello zen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Bruce Mowbray: Or is it merely a consensus?
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zen!
Lukey Woodget: hi zen
Zen Arado: Hi all
Wol Euler: is a consensus that is acted upon different from a decision?
Bruce Mowbray: In the Quaker group I am a part of in RL, we arrive at decisions through "consensus."

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: But we all also realize that this is a formality -- a sort orf fiction that we all agree upon.
Eliza Madrigal: is it usually one or two people who lead the direction of that consensus, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: It is usually one person who leads. . . . in the Quaker group. . . .
Bruce Mowbray: But, does that matter?

Lukey Woodget: you dont need a leader
Bruce Mowbray: There is no leader, actually.
Eliza Madrigal: just wondering if there is always leadership even in groups that think there is no leader...
Lukey Woodget: if everybody is working toward the same thing
Bruce Mowbray: I do not feel that there is a leader.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, working toward the same goals.

Wol Euler remembers Terry Pratchett "Everybody knew that the witches had no leader; but everybody knew that Granny Weatherwax was the leader they didn't have"
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: yeah....
Wol Euler: that's often how it works :)
Bruce Mowbray: AHHHH! So much looking forward to reading more of Terry Pratchett.
Zen Arado: eyh agree
Eliza Madrigal: in groups there are some who articulate vision ...perhaps as a talent...
Lukey Woodget: I loved Death
Bruce Mowbray: "Wee Free Men"
Wol Euler: yes, he's a great character

Bruce Mowbray wonders about those who do not feel "entitled" to express their vision.

(perhaps they forgot to look at their tag?)

Lukey Woodget: all I am saying is we are devided
Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers, it is so, Lukey.
Lukey Woodget: its nature its something
Bruce Mowbray: In various ways, actually.
Lukey Woodget: whatever it is
Lukey Woodget: we are devided
Eliza Madrigal: united by our divisions
Bruce Mowbray: But we are also united.\
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza!

Bruce Mowbray: Alas! Tis time for moi to attend to dinner.
Wol Euler nods.
Lukey Woodget: we have things in common
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you all!
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you Bruce
Wol Euler: bon appetit bruce, take care
Eliza Madrigal: Happy Thanksgiving to you and Bear
Zen Arado: bye Bruce
Wol Euler: good old Bear :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bless you each and all with happiness this Thanksgiving Day!
Zen Arado: turkey uneaten yet?
Wol Euler: he probably practices thankfulness all the time :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lukey Woodget: he is off for a drink
Lukey Woodget: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehhe.... he just had one ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: I could never drink and be so lucid as bruce...haha
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does practice Thankgivingness all the time -- When he is conscious.
Wol Euler: even better!
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: and he also goes for a drink, when he wishes!
Bruce Mowbray: BYE!
Zen Arado: good way to be
Eliza Madrigal: bye friend

Eliza Madrigal: I should go too... thanks for the warm, funny, sparky company this thanksgiving day
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
Zen Arado: sorry I missed it
Zen Arado: bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: yes where were you Zen? :)
Wol Euler: I know many people are thankful for you :)
Zen Arado: I was watching a TV prog about statistics
Eliza Madrigal: that's kind to say Wol
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe the book is thankful to be read :)

Lukey Woodget: watch that film
Eliza Madrigal: lol Zen... well.... not sure what to answer about that
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Wol Euler: the reader helps the book achieve bookness

Eliza Madrigal: ah... you know... let me linger here and watch that now
Zen Arado: a Swediah guy
Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
Eliza Madrigal: before I leave the computer :)
Zen Arado: fascinating
Lukey Woodget: it is a good film
Zen Arado: I think it is a repeat
Wol Euler: oh yes, love Rosling. He has several TED talks on interpreting statistics, visualizations
Zen Arado: was on BBC 4
Zen Arado: yes


Zen Arado: Google was on it
Zen Arado: the way they use stats
Zen Arado: even for language translation
Zen Arado: and will integrate with voice recognition
Zen Arado: just stats and patterns
Zen Arado: correlationships
Zen Arado: amazing


--BELL--

Wol Euler: thanks zen, that was fun
Zen Arado: amazing what we can learn from data
Wol Euler: I would say we can learn from information made out of data :)
Wol Euler: spreadsheets of pure numbers are harder to learn from
Wol Euler: though it can still be done, of course
Zen Arado: yes it's the analysis methods isn't it?
Wol Euler nods.

Zen Arado: wonder if there is a spiritual connection?
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Wol Euler: how do you mean?
Zen Arado: not sure
Zen Arado: there was a section at the end where a guy analyses people emotions

Eliza Madrigal: omgoodness... this video.... :::melts:::::

Eliza Madrigal: will peek at statistics one too in a bit
Wol Euler: are you watching "zero"?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen Arado: from what they say on the web about how they feel
Wol Euler: okay, that's up next for me :)

Eliza Madrigal: finished just now.. sorry , lukey poofed then?
Wol Euler: oh, I didn't notice, I guess so
Eliza Madrigal: :::sends IM of thanks::::

Eliza Madrigal: zen analyses emotions statistically?
Zen Arado: no..a guy in the program does
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Wol Euler: hmmmm
Zen Arado: just when they say how they feel on FB and other places
Wol Euler: ah
Eliza Madrigal: ooh yes... tweet analysis is really fascinating
Wol Euler: "I feel xxx" ?
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: or xxxx
Wol Euler: yes, I saw that. fascinating. a kind of zeitgeist
Zen Arado: or like xxxx

Wol Euler: "the internet feels sad today"

Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: sort of amazing way of thinking as a globe
Eliza Madrigal: if it comes to that
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: men feel better than women but are more lonely
Eliza Madrigal: Jeff Bezos said last week that he thinks the internet is in day 1
Wol Euler: which perhaps only means that women express their feelings better :)
Eliza Madrigal: not sure Wol :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: of course :)

Eliza Madrigal thinks of all the people gathered around tense tables today
Wol Euler: heheh
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe an interesting tweet search
Eliza Madrigal: anyway... better go :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: bye and nice to see y'all
Zen Arado: kk byee Eliza
Wol Euler: bye eliza, enjoy the day
Korel Laloix: Ciao

Wol Euler: I should go too, I'm tired and I have to be up early tomorrow
Wol Euler: thanks for a great session
Wol Euler: happy thanksgiving, korel
Wol Euler: bye zen
Zen Arado: yes Kori
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Wol Euler waves.
Zen Arado: tc and byee