2008.10.12 13:00 - Art and Love

The guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden, who was able to stay for 50 minutes or so, but as the conversation was continuing to unfold as she had to leave Adelene Downer agreed to send the rest of the chatlog, and some of the final comments may be hers.

Soon after I arrived at the Pavilion Adams came in.

Adams Rubble: Hello Maxine :)
  Maxine Walden: hi, Adams, nice to see you again
  Adams Rubble: You too. I hope your trip was nice
  Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene :)
  Maxine Walden: My trip was very nice, just full of art experiences which I am still metabolizing. Will likely be days or weeks
Maxine Walden: hi, Adelene
  Adams Rubble: Pia told me you had an experience with space

As I entered the Pavilion I noted the auto record device and wondered about its functioning.I asked others about it. Discussion about logging and updates ensues

  Maxine Walden: this is my first time as guardian with the auto record. Any special things for me to watch out for? Oh, yes and I can talk more about space and time which I did have some experiences with
  Maxine Walden: during the trip
  Adams Rubble: I think we are still logging as we always have for now
  Adams Rubble: I posted mine this morning
  Maxine Walden: thought so, thanks, just checking
  Adams Rubble: With the update, all the preferences for logging get changed though
  Adams Rubble: I have had trouble with that since I use 3 computers
  Adams Rubble: (and more than one avatar)
  Adams Rubble: hehe
  Maxine Walden: oh, maybe I need to ask about that. I left out time stamp, hoping it would not show in the chatlog

Umbriel joins us as does Adelene and Wol, as we continue our discussion about logging and auto-logging

Adams Rubble: I found it is good to check that it is logging
  Adams Rubble: Hello Umbriel :)
  Maxine Walden: how do you do that, check that it is logging?
  Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
  Adelene Dawner: I'm definitely logging and can send you a copy of my log if there's any problem, so no worries :)
  Adams Rubble: I actually open up the chat.txt file myself
  Wol Euler: hello maxine, adams
  Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
  Wol Euler: sorry, hello adelene and umbriel, you were underneath a chat window :-)
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Maxine Walden: hi Wol, Umbriel. Ah, thanks. I usually try to copy the chatlog immediately when I leave as today, and put it in notepad or something similar
  Adams Rubble finds that she is logging too
  Maxine Walden: Guess we all have our ways of trying to do this job
  Adams Rubble: :)
  Wol Euler: I'm sorry to say it will probably be another two more weeks before the autologging is officially "on", the auto-posting to the wiki is still missing.
  Adelene Dawner: Just so you know, I will be laggy and somwhat not-here; I'm translocating between this and another av. :)
  Wol Euler: oooh.
  Wol Euler: so bring her or him here :-)
  Maxine Walden: thanks, Adelene for your offer of help; I will let you know if I need it. Like your crow outfit Ah, multiple avs
  Adelene Dawner: no, she's where she needs to be, dealing with another meeting as a favor for a friend.
  Wol Euler: 'twas but a joke :-)
  Adams Rubble: Life in SL can be complicated
  Adelene Dawner: I may bring Annae sometime; she has quite a collection of bodies and shapeshifts. ^.^
  Maxine Walden: yes, life in SL can be complex
  Umbriel Levenque: what's the weather like where you are Adams?
  Umbriel Levenque: (apologies... rather a irrelevant question here)
  Adams Rubble: It is a beautiful day here
  Adams Rubble knows why Umbriel asks :)
  Umbriel Levenque: um... ty
  Wol Euler smiles

It seems that we seem to be shifting in our focus, and soon the conversation involves Adams and Maxine’s recent experiences of time and space

  Umbriel Levenque: I was trying to change the subject possibly also
  Maxine Walden: have another topic, Umbriel, for us to consider?
  Umbriel Levenque: sorry no, we could go back to how/why life in SL is complex
  Adams Rubble: Maxine and I were starting to talk about space. Many of us seem to have had similar experiences
  Adams Rubble: lor seem to have had
  Adams Rubble: or
  Adelene Dawner wants to hear Adams talk about space :)
  Wol Euler: oh, as you discussed with cal? expanding?
  Adams Rubble: Yes Wol
  Maxine Walden: yes, Adams I would like to hear them too; we can exchange experiences
  Adams Rubble: In my case it was very brief (a few seconds) but very powerful
  Adams Rubble: It was in the middle of the night in which my dream activity was at a furious pace
  Adams Rubble: After the experience my mind was still but I couldn't sleep (I have been plagued with the latter for over a week)
  Adams Rubble: Suddenly I was in a very great space
  Adams Rubble: It was beautiful
  Adams Rubble: It was exhiliarating
  Adams Rubble: I realized that I have been living in compartments
  Adams Rubble: Like big boxes which are darkened in comparison to what I experienced
  Adams Rubble: And I also felt free during the experience
  Adams Rubble: Since the experience I have not been able to imagine the compartments any more
  Adams Rubble: But also not this feeling of space
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Adelene Dawner: the concept sides-of-a-coin seems relevanr
  Adelene Dawner: *relevant

I can now see that I was in a way in a box with my next comment, listening from a place which did not feel pertinent to Adams’ experience

  Maxine Walden: Do you link the not sleeping with the expanded space experience or the loss of the compartments
  Maxine Walden: ?
  Adams Rubble: There are other things going on. I am not sure how or if they are related right now
  Adams Rubble: Yes Adelene

And now I wish I had seen this statement of Adams, re her dream rather than be caught up in what I now see as a slightly close-minded comment about unfamiliar compartments; an example of missed opportunities perhaps

  Adams Rubble: I had another dream while you were aay Mxine that sopke to me on a number of levels
  Maxine Walden: I ask, hoping not to intrude, because I have found that at times when I am in a new space, not a familiar compartment, that I can feel slightly endangered, as if a bit lost.
  Maxine Walden: And while there is freedom, the loss of the familiar brings pain and uncertainty
  Adams Rubble: There is not that direct kind of connection; the sleeplessness may simply be due to work

And here we have an example of at least two maybe three threads of conversation in tandem: sides of a coin, ice cream, how the encounter with great art can compress time and space

  Adelene Dawner: security/freedom; anothe coin.
  Adelene Dawner: *another
  Maxine Walden: Maybe it would be interesting for me to try to speak about my experience amidst the art of Florence and time/space
  Adams Rubble: yes, ploease :)
  Wol Euler laughs and slaps her head. I've been puzzling about "the concept of the _edge_ of a coin." Duh.
  Adelene Dawner: hm, Wol?
  Wol Euler: didn't think of the opposing faces.
  Adelene Dawner: ahh
  Wol Euler: heheheh
  Adams Rubble: :)
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque quietly goes to kitchen to fetch some ice cream...
  Adams Rubble: ummmm, ice cream
  Umbriel Levenque doesn't eat ice cream normally... but
  Maxine Walden: I had studied in Florence decades ago, and had a clear image of Michelangelo's David, and so many of the other master works in that city. This time, viewing the David again, and the other works, I felt time and space compressed, not just my previous experience, but as if the renaissance spirit, that breaking away from old medieval traditions was right there in the room; no time elapsed, the ever present struggle between the striving to be free and face the Goliath's we all have. A concentrated experience that was just about overwhelming
  Adams Rubble: Ahhh
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: (they did a good job restoring the statue it seems)

In retrospect it seems that Adelene gives a hint of things to come later on in the discussion, perhaps feeling more at ease than previously about somethings she wishes later on to share.But for now we are nearly all caught up in the discussion of art and its impact, time, and perhaps the timeless…

  Adelene Dawner chukles and wonders why she was worried about sharing her own recent experience here... but will wait 'till she's fully present to do so, if you all don't mind the tease. ^.^
  Wol Euler: :-)
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Adams Rubble: we'll look forward to it Adelene :)
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Maxine Walden: great art seems to do that. Seems to sweep you up and all the emotion as well. Yes,Umbriel, a very nice job. Are you thinking of something in particular, the broken arm or general restoration?
  Umbriel Levenque: I often have similar feelings Maxine when visiting historical places
  Adams Rubble: Great art is timeless :)
  Maxine Walden: interesting
  Umbriel Levenque: um... just remember the all the fuss around that restoration that's all
  Maxine Walden: yes, great art is timeless, speaks, is in the moment, it feels
  Adams Rubble: Great that you could relate that to yourself Maxine :)
  Adams Rubble: and time in general
  Umbriel Levenque: but almost always I get that feelings from the places when outside
  Maxine Walden: I think the searching we all are doing was influencing me, the struggles we all have with the old and the new
  Maxine Walden: Outside, Umbriel?
  Umbriel Levenque: yes normally I'm in the open space in historical places when I get that undescribable feelings
  Adams Rubble: I experience that too Umbriel
  Umbriel Levenque: oh?
  Umbriel Levenque: I don't get much from being in museums for example, ie British Museum

Again, as I re-read this chatlog I glimpse myself as caught up more in my experience with art than with the conversation at hand.Maybe that is just me, but it may also illustrate that some experiences so impact us that we indeed are caught up in metabolizing them even when we feel we are trying to share them with others.

  Maxine Walden: There was another aspect which came to me repeatedly: that this exquisite art was being created amidst a world of great violence, greed, power, suspicion...both sides of humanity in the mix. But more about 'open spaces' that Adams and Umbriel are thinking about
  Umbriel Levenque: loads of old objects but indoors...

Now Wol is about to toss in a comic bomb, perhaps for levity, but also I think to show that tension and strife might be important elements in the really creative mix.

  Wol Euler nods. The Third Man said it well
  Umbriel Levenque: artefacts in context... that triggers it somehow... difficult to explain
  Wol Euler: "switzerland had 500 years of peace and brotherhood and prosperity, and they created the cuckoo clock"
  Adams Rubble: wol !!!!
  Maxine Walden: What did the Third Man say, Wol? oh, think you just said it
  Wol Euler: heheheh
  Adelene Dawner becomes fully present :)
  Adams Rubble picking herself up off floor
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Wol Euler: not exactly cause and effect, but worth considering ...

And Adelene announces her full presence with us which we note

  Maxine Walden: welcome, fully present Adelene
  Adelene Dawner: hehe
  Threedee Shepherd is Online
  Adelene Dawner chuckles. "And about to be even more fully present, one moment."
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Maxine Walden: maybe we all have to have some cuckoo-ness for leavening
  Wol Euler is curious.
  Wol Euler: hello threedee
  Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
  Maxine Walden: hi threedee
  Adams Rubble: Hello Threedee :)

Adelene now uses the term ‘Love’ in addressing Threedee who has just joined us, something I believe we all note but do not comment on at this time.I felt the mix of curiosity, emotion, excitement, wonder…and soon it becomes clear that Adelene and Threedee have had/are having some extraordinary experiences similar to what we were previously discussing regarding one’s encounter with art.And it soon appears that out of the ordinary emerges the extra-ordinary…

  Adelene Dawner: Hello, Love. We're discussing unusual experiences of space and time. Care to talk, or shall I?
  Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks, just got home.
  Threedee Shepherd: you start
  Adelene Dawner: I guess I should, since my bit was temporally 'first' ^.^
  Adelene Dawner: A couple days ago, Mark and I had an experience rather like you guys have been describing, but of each other. ^.^
  Wol Euler smiles
  Maxine Walden: warmly smiles
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Adelene Dawner: There were actually two events, apparently related, on the same day. The earlier of the two, I was sitting at the computer as I am now, doing... something, don't remember... and was suddenly but un-startlingly aware of another body overlapping mine. It was Mark, meditating... he wasn't aware that he was doing it at the time, we figured that out later, after the second event.
  Wol Euler: o.O
  Adelene Dawner chuckles.
  Maxine Walden: ah
  Umbriel Levenque: yes
  Umbriel Levenque: what was the second event may I ask?
  Maxine Walden: an entwining of a sort which might have taken the breath away? Unanticipated?
  Threedee Shepherd: Ade will continue and I will then add
  Adelene Dawner: Definitely unanticipated, Max, and entwining is... close, kind of.
  Adelene Dawner: With that, I was fully aware of *both* bodies... they were in the same physical space, but separate, not moving together or anything. Overlapping.
  Maxine Walden: sharing the same space
  Adelene Dawner: Yup.
  Maxine Walden: that might be very emotional
  Adelene Dawner: (Umbriel - I'm trying to put some cohesive words together for the second event, we'll get there)
  Umbriel Levenque: ok thank you
  Adams Rubble listening
  Adelene Dawner: It actually wasn't particularly emotional. I was a bit curious, that was all... very calm, very zen, very just-there.
  Umbriel Levenque: yes
  Adelene Dawner: Utterly mundane *except* there was this other body that happened to be there too. ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: I meditated with another friend for someone in distress who wasn't aware of our actions. He told us afterwards that he felt our presence.
  Adelene Dawner: ^.^
  Maxine Walden: not so mundane perhaps Adelene
  Umbriel Levenque: It does happen but don't believe it caused him any upsets...
  Adelene Dawner: It felt mundane.
  Maxine Walden: ah, I see, sorry
  Adelene Dawner: And that's an important point, I think... this stuff *is* just-life, in a pretty fundamental way. It doesn't have to be sparkly.
  Threedee Shepherd: perhaps mundane as in, no lightning or thunder, no Aha, just beingness
  Umbriel Levenque: yes
  Umbriel Levenque: not in dismissive way
  Wol Euler nods
  Adelene Dawner: Yes, Love. ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: 'natural' 'ordinary'...
  Adelene Dawner: 'mundane' isn't dismissive anyway... or, should't be... APAPB, every appearance is a miracle. ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Adelene Dawner: The second event happened right at the end of the evening's PaB session - I was havign a *really* rough day, sensory-system-wise, and Three knew it... and suddenly there he was in my head, poking at the sensory system to make it work better, just like I do when I'm nto too fatigued to do it.
  Wol Euler: oooh.
Maxine Walden: ah
  Umbriel Levenque: :-)
  Adelene Dawner: And we both were aware of what was going on, that time, because he was IMing to me about it as he did it. *chuckles(
  Adelene Dawner: ('about' is not very accurate there - speaking-from, not putting-words-around, for those who've picked up those terms from recent discussions)
  Wol Euler: fascinating.
  Adelene Dawner: *beautiful* ^.^
  Umbriel Levenque: what kind of things did you say Threedee in that IMs?
  Maxine Walden: This is such a lovely unfolding and I will have to leave for another meeting in about 3 minutes; could someone send me the rest of the chatlog and I will add it to the wiki?
  Adelene Dawner: sure, Max
  Maxine Walden: thanks, Adelene

This is where my chatlog record ends.I will add that which Adelene sends along or she will add it with her own comments.It seemed a very difficult place to leave the conversation for me, as if leaving just at the most interesting points of the conversation or real life story…