The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: how was the fist 30 minutes?
Lucinda Lavender: hello steveanai
Lucinda Lavender: I was not here..but I think it was fine!
stevenaia Michinaga: thought I was you here when I signed on
Lucinda Lavender: so much lag that I am not sure how long it will take to actually get anywherey
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Eos
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eos..see you now
Lucinda Lavender: quite a lot of lag
Eos Amaterasu: we are all rezzed, apparently to me
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: deep breath
Eos Amaterasu: what was the drift, or topic :-) ?
stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking the other day, perhaps yesterday about something Paradise said that stuck me to think about beauty and scientific process... wonders if these two things can be joined or are they forever independant
Eos Amaterasu: ah!
stevenaia Michinaga: not the beauty of the scientific process, which is another thing entirely
Lucinda Lavender: listens and thinks
Eos Amaterasu: when I was in college we watched the Richard Feynman lectures on physics. He said, "nature is beautiful, and because she is beautiful, she is simple. that is the faith of the physicist".
stevenaia Michinaga: which lead to to thing how can reality be studied sceintifically as it is an individual that contributes so much to it's definition, jsut like what each of us sees as beauty
Eos Amaterasu: beauty seems more than skin deep
stevenaia Michinaga: one person;s beauty is anothers..... something else
Eos Amaterasu: Feynman seems to be saying more: that beauty is somehow intrinsic
stevenaia Michinaga: asthetics tends towards philosphy, not science
stevenaia Michinaga: intrinsic as it may be, it is not recognized by all
Eos Amaterasu: e**(iπ) + 1 = 0
stevenaia Michinaga: like reality
Lucinda Lavender: :)
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: nod's so much beauty in symbolisim
stevenaia Michinaga: (in the right combination)
Eos Amaterasu: actually, I thnk he's saying _even_ more: that you have passion toward nature, you marlel at her, you love her
Eos Amaterasu: marvel
Eos Amaterasu: so yes, it's coming from you as well as being discovered out there
Eos Amaterasu: but there the two beauties meet :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: but is it scientific in its evaluation
Eos Amaterasu: passion for beauty, especially in mathematical form, seems to be a prime driver of science
Eos Amaterasu: exhibit 1: Higgs Boson
Eos Amaterasu: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17rp...g/original.jpg
Lucinda Lavender: ...:)))
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lucinda Lavender: so much being discovered
Lucinda Lavender: understood
Eos Amaterasu: the Higgs Boson seems like a fudge factor: to make the equations work, they had to assume all the particles were massless. So then they had to account for the fact that there is mass, and they pointed the finger at this Boson and said, "higgs did it!"
Eos Amaterasu: we're all bosons on this bus
Lucinda Lavender: haha
Lucinda Lavender: nodding
stevenaia Michinaga: I think I heard the discovers was a " shadow of a footprint"
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a concrete basis to me!
Eos Amaterasu: a footpring etched in a needle in a gigantic haystack
Eos Amaterasu: *footprint
Eos Amaterasu: kids like to smash things and make big bangs
stevenaia Michinaga: and make rockets
Lucinda Lavender: have a book calle bad smells and loud nooses forever...
Lucinda Lavender: bad smells and loud noises
Lucinda Lavender: boys book of science activities
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I guess in science there is a belief in "truth", and that that endeavor is the way to uncover truth
Lucinda Lavender: nods
Eos Amaterasu: we can measure things, and what is true is what can be uncovered through measurement
stevenaia Michinaga: science and truth and beauty?
stevenaia Michinaga: there is beauty in truth
stevenaia Michinaga: and science
Lucinda Lavender: ibn note taking
Lucinda Lavender: in
stevenaia Michinaga: but I'm not sure there is science in beauty
Eos Amaterasu: there's a built in uplift to beauty
Eos Amaterasu: seems designed in
Lucinda Lavender: like in a crystal
Lucinda Lavender: that grows upward
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: there is beauty and what is not, there is science and truth.... an end to itself, no yin to its yang
Eos Amaterasu: I have a book called "The Algorithmic Beauty of Plants"
Eos Amaterasu: there's all kinds of science of beauty
Eos Amaterasu: or, various kinds of beauty follow mathematical kinds of patterns, which are both simple and beautiful
Eos Amaterasu: hail boxy
Lucinda Lavender: luci thinks of flavor...through the recipe...beauty is achieved
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to boxy
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Lucinda Lavender: smiles to boxy:)
Alfred Kelberry: well, how are you fine people doing today?
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Lucinda Lavender: considering beauty and science...
Lucinda Lavender: well
Alfred Kelberry: stev's dress is sure a stuff of beauty :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, undenyable
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Eos Amaterasu: millions of particles are living and dying to render this dress
Alfred Kelberry: oh, reminds me of "i, robot" movie: yes, vicky, your logic is undeniable :)
stevenaia Michinaga: ppaticles liveing and dying, sounds sad
Alfred Kelberry: on irrational behavior of human being
Eos Amaterasu: ratio-nal
stevenaia Michinaga: just a metaphor, there is not life in particles, just existance
Eos Amaterasu: mathematica beauty again
Alfred Kelberry: how about a less abstract subject?
stevenaia Michinaga: less abstract than science truth and beauty?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, please
Eos Amaterasu: [19:40] stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking the other day, perhaps yesterday about something Paradise said that stuck me to think about beauty and scientific process... wonders if these two things can be joined or are they forever independant
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, it is friday after all
Eos Amaterasu looks around
stevenaia Michinaga: ok, Saturday for the two of you
Eos Amaterasu wonders what stevenaia has in mind
stevenaia Michinaga: so much for truth
Eos Amaterasu: ah, we forgot fun!
Alfred Kelberry: beauty is not easy to quantify
Eos Amaterasu: you mean like golden mean?
Alfred Kelberry: for me, an elegant theory or equation is beautiful
Alfred Kelberry: so it a clear blue sky
Eos Amaterasu: [19:44] Eos Amaterasu: e**(iπ) + 1 = 0
Eos Amaterasu: what do you feel when you feel beauty, boxy?
Alfred Kelberry: i don't see how one can propose science to be free of "beauty"
Alfred Kelberry: eos, depends... mostly joy, i suppose
Eos Amaterasu: that's great
Alfred Kelberry: like eating a candy :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Lucinda Lavender: Luci does not not know enough science to say...but finds beauty many places
stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking the inverse, the science of beauty?
Alfred Kelberry: oh! good one, stev
stevenaia Michinaga: ponders who you would go about applying the process of science to it
Lucinda Lavender: thinks of mona lisa's smile
Alfred Kelberry: i think mona lisa is overhyped
Lucinda Lavender: perhaps...
Lucinda Lavender: just thought of it ...
stevenaia Michinaga: with art, if you it;s great enough, people begin to belive
Eos Amaterasu: there are many smiles just as magnetic as mona's
Lucinda Lavender: certainly
Alfred Kelberry: just like the black square of malevich
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: eos, yes. i've seen one in berlin with pabers at an auction. it touched me far more than any famous mona lisas out there.
Eos Amaterasu shudders just hearing "the black square of melvich"
Eos Amaterasu: malevich]
stevenaia Michinaga: someone had to do it first
Eos Amaterasu: they heroine with a thousand smiles
Lucinda Lavender: never having heard of the black square...I wonder what it is...
Lucinda Lavender: will look that up
Alfred Kelberry: if we talk about established rules on beauty then beauty contests come to mind. although, in addition to appearance they count in contestants talents and wit and stuff.
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimir_Malevich
Alfred Kelberry: which makes one think that beauty is a package of qualities and not simply a visual presentation
Lucinda Lavender: thanks you
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, beauty is really more than skin deep
Alfred Kelberry: i.e. existence of a functional origin
Eos Amaterasu: not an accidental feature of nature
Alfred Kelberry: who defines beauty standards?
stevenaia Michinaga: who defines reality standards :)
Eos Amaterasu: beauty contest judges :: what will sell to some audience :: ?
Alfred Kelberry: how did it happen that a skinny board girl became the pinnacle of beauty?
Eos Amaterasu: bad math
Alfred Kelberry: fashion industry?
Eos Amaterasu: that seems to be some kind of embodying idealized++ notion of beauty
Eos Amaterasu: Lisp has intrinsic beauty, and it has lots of curves :-)
Lucinda Lavender: remembering a program about power on PBS...seemed like certain preportions figured in...to faces that wield power
Lucinda Lavender: preportion...is that the word I mean?
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: does not look right!
Alfred Kelberry: luci, i wonder what this power theory has to say on this: http://i.imgur.com/IhOkn.jpg
Eos Amaterasu: proportion, but it was a beautiful pun
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me, thank you
Eos Amaterasu: (speaking of which, boxy, earlier I shared this (we were talking bosons):http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17rp...g/original.jpg)
Eos Amaterasu: actually also bedtime++ for me....
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lucinda Lavender: walking time to see the gardens...
stevenaia Michinaga: keep cool
Eos Amaterasu: ciao belllissimmi
Alfred Kelberry: bey