2012.07.20 07:00 - A practice ground

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    2012.07.20 07:00 - Title goes here

    The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

     

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci
    --BELL--
    Lucinda Lavender: Welcome Eliza...
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: huge rain coming down in my world
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds nice
    Lucinda Lavender: it is...and qute unusual vor here
    Eliza Madrigal: do you mean that hard rains are unusual?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Here it is particularly bright, after days of rains and mugginess
    Lucinda Lavender: I counted to 18 slowly while waiting for the word yes to appear
    Eliza Madrigal: lag was awful yesterday... wonder if there might be an issue
    Eliza Madrigal: although today my lines feel to be flowing okay
    Eliza Madrigal: -today ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, oops actually +today
    Lucinda Lavender: do you think it would help for me to remove the scarf I am wearing that has many color available to it?
    Eliza Madrigal: I wanted to say thanks again for your "listening" email
    Eliza Madrigal: the scarf is probably okay... maybe the connection/reception is affected by the rains
    Lucinda Lavender: after the weekend and listening to the monday morning 7 am I felt inspired
    Lucinda Lavender: things seemed to come together
    Eliza Madrigal: and you had a perfect practice ground ... car trip with relatives :)
    Lucinda Lavender: back
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe that will help
    Lucinda Lavender: has the theme of listening seemed to dissipate?
    Eliza Madrigal: it has overlapped with the the science and pab themes. I don't think it has dissipated, so much as there are quite a few angles...
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Alfred has asked people what their strategies for dealing with anger are, for instance. That's been interesting
    Lucinda Lavender: I have wanted to listen to the focusing .org link but have not as yet
    --BELL--
    Lucinda Lavender: I appreciate that it was found anyway
    Lucinda Lavender: sometimes it is hard for me to listen outloud in my environment:) and that sounds funny because we have been thinking about listning
    Eliza Madrigal: "listening outloud" that's a great and curious phrase :D
    Lucinda Lavender: as opposed to with earphones
    Eliza Madrigal: there are so many ways in which people are developing methods to become less reactive. Focusing, Non-violent communication... meditation itself - all ways to nurture stability, capacity...
    Eliza Madrigal: Last night's exploration with Pema was a nice compliment to what you described in your email - listening underneath the words...
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema called it "quality"
    Lucinda Lavender: I was able to read the session later...tho I would want to take more time reading it again and listen again
    Lucinda Lavender: quality...hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: words themselves can be very limited, but there is perhaps something else to hear than words .. I guess is the idea ..
    Eliza Madrigal: like you mentioned "song"
    Lucinda Lavender: yes listening for an overall felt impression
    Lucinda Lavender: some people speak in a very sing song way to begine with
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: one which implies...knowing...comfort..or reassuance
    Lucinda Lavender: more like
    Lucinda Lavender: reassurance
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling tones...
    Lucinda Lavender: and some have kind of a space/openess
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza, Luci :)
    Lucinda Lavender: riding the waves of emotion surfing them...
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Zen!
    Eliza Madrigal gave Zen a portion of text in IM
    Lucinda Lavender: we were just talking about listning to voices...and their song
    Zen Arado: thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: do you find that you speak in different ways to each of your students, Luci? How does it differ from when you communicate with the group?
    Lucinda Lavender: right...yes I would say so...different when addressing a group.
    Zen Arado: wechange our delivery to suit listeners
    Zen Arado: skilful means?
    Lucinda Lavender: have to call up more strength and projection to be heard...tho I know a few others at my work who are masters of not having to talk loud
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting... skillful means, and where do those 'come from'… At first I was thinking it comes from the one being communicated with - because the tone or range shows up differently - but it is a unique combination
    Zen Arado: it is two way
    Eliza Madrigal: I marvel at teachers who are really calm yet have the attention of students
    Zen Arado: guess everything is
    Eliza Madrigal: I was kind of a clown when tutoring which was fun but took much energy
    Zen Arado: needs confidence I guess
    Lucinda Lavender: appearing full of energy takes energy:)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Zen Arado: teaching does take a lot of energy any way i think
    Lucinda Lavender: but for me it does gain others attention...turning down the"volume" on that energy is kind a good skill too:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) guess there are ways to prepare and then see what shows up in the moment
    Zen Arado: challenge is to keep yourself interested if material is repetitive
    Zen Arado: if you get bored it makes others bored too
    Eliza Madrigal: true... maybe boredom is a sign of being caught too much in the content of something, missing the 'quality'
    Zen Arado: I taught factual material
    Zen Arado: but you can find interesting aspects to that too
    Zen Arado: interesting ways to present it
    Lucinda Lavender: nodding
    Zen Arado: that's how to maintain interest
    Lucinda Lavender: so that people even the teacher does not shut down
    Zen Arado: too slick can be pffputting too
    Eliza Madrigal: boredom might allow for learning to go deeper at times, tho... funny balance. Daydreaming ... or searching for meaning
    Zen Arado: have to take risks
    Lucinda Lavender: I am remembering a statement by a friend...ah...when you are getting bored you are about to discover something new...
    Lucinda Lavender: almost lke a gestation period for understanding
    Zen Arado: 'safeness' is a recipe for boredom
    Eliza Madrigal: "creativity is the residue of wasted time" - dear Albert Einstein
    Eliza Madrigal: gestation, nodding
    Zen Arado: teaching cn be playing by ear
    Eliza Madrigal: how so?
    Zen Arado: sensitivy to hearers
    Zen Arado: if it isn't getting across you might need to adapt
    Eliza Madrigal: there are also different processing speeds or expressions ... nice to have the luxury of working with someone over time
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Lucinda Lavender: hello Alpha Male...
    Zen Arado: you have to be rigid with a large group though
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alpha
    reachashishs2 Resident: hi
    Zen Arado: Hi alpha
    Lucinda Lavender: we are haveing a discussion that is being recorded...have you been here before...?
    Lucinda Lavender: would you like a note card about Play as Being?
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: Alpha has been here before... also to some art events with the group :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Zen Arado: you live in India alpha?
    reachashishs2 Resident: yep
    reachashishs2 Resident: i am half-intellectual
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    reachashishs2 Resident: yeah
    reachashishs2 Resident: i live in indyeaaah
    Zen Arado: and you like J.Krishnamurti...always a good start :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: of all the wise things that J. Krishnamurti has said... it is his demeanor and presence that stays with me... can't help but smile
    Eliza Madrigal: so glad there are videos of him
    Zen Arado: I like U.G. too
    Zen Arado: but he is a bit cantankerous
    Zen Arado: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: nodding
    Eliza Madrigal: U.G.?
    Zen Arado: UG Krishnamurti
    Lucinda Lavender: who is U.G.?
    reachashishs2 Resident: he is a gr8 guy
    Zen Arado: yeh plenty of free talks on the web
    reachashishs2 Resident: yeah
    Zen Arado: if you look him up
    reachashishs2 Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting, news to me.. U.G. : )
    Zen Arado: they aren't related
    Lucinda Lavender: I may crash soon...
    Lucinda Lavender: I will check that out...
    Zen Arado: http://praveennv.blogspot.co.uk/2007...ti-quotes.html
    Zen Arado: a taster
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Zen
    reachashishs2 Resident: a teaser
    reachashishs2 Resident: actually
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: he gives it straight
    Eliza Madrigal: *Real silence is explosive; it is not the dead state of mind that spiritual seekers think. This is volcanic in its nature; it's bubbling all the time--the energy, the life--that is its quality.
    Lucinda Lavender: well we were speaking about demeanor...delivery...in teaching weren't we...
    Lucinda Lavender: ?
    Zen Arado: '*All gurus are welfare organizations providing petty experiences to their followers. The guru game is a profitable industry; try and make two million dollars a year any other way.'
    Zen Arado: ha ha
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    reachashishs2 Resident: moral: be ur own guru
    Eliza Madrigal: and quality
    Zen Arado: exactly alpha
    Eliza Madrigal: the study of the self is to forget the self, the job of a guru to wean off a guru?
    reachashishs2 Resident: but
    reachashishs2 Resident: a little guidance
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    reachashishs2 Resident: and nurturing is needed
    reachashishs2 Resident: therefore
    Zen Arado: I don't believe everything he says
    reachashishs2 Resident: the concept of a guru
    reachashishs2 Resident: this concept is an integral part
    reachashishs2 Resident: of indian society
    reachashishs2 Resident: to respect guru
    reachashishs2 Resident: and
    reachashishs2 Resident: in return
    reachashishs2 Resident: receive
    reachashishs2 Resident: wisdom
    Eliza Madrigal: is it expected that everyone find a guru, in India?
    reachashishs2 Resident: no
    reachashishs2 Resident: it's a choice u make
    reachashishs2 Resident: but many willingly
    reachashishs2 Resident: follow a guru
    reachashishs2 Resident: when it comes to treading
    reachashishs2 Resident: the spiritual path
    Eliza Madrigal: the guru helps one to see their own nature, in a sense... but from the outside it can look, especially to westerners at times, like disengaging from intellect
    Zen Arado: but gurus are meant to be dispensed with eventually
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe like therapists:)
    reachashishs2 Resident: no, no,
    reachashishs2 Resident: and no
    reachashishs2 Resident: spirituality
    reachashishs2 Resident: is
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I think there are real parallels in the West, re therapists
    reachashishs2 Resident: intellectual disengagement
    Eliza Madrigal: these are important distinctions
    Eliza Madrigal: please say more Alpha?
    Lucinda Lavender: can you say more about the disengagement?
    Zen Arado: '*I am always emphasizing that somehow the truth has to dawn upon you that there is nothing to understand. '
    reachashishs2 Resident: the spiritual path isn't a logical one
    reachashishs2 Resident: there's no
    reachashishs2 Resident: rationale
    --BELL--
    reachashishs2 Resident: the west
    Zen Arado: I tell that to people who try to 'understand' my abstract paintings :)
    reachashishs2 Resident: is too intellectually engageg
    reachashishs2 Resident: in materialism
    reachashishs2 Resident: too rational
    Zen Arado: nods
    reachashishs2 Resident: and logically-mindede
    Eliza Madrigal: isn't there place for integration? That may be one of the questions we've been asking in recent theme sessions...
    reachashishs2 Resident: reasoning
    reachashishs2 Resident: and intellect
    Lucinda Lavender: I was just remembeintegration is a nice word
    Zen Arado: it could also be a way to try to hold on to intellectualizing
    reachashishs2 Resident: relate and pertain
    reachashishs2 Resident: to the outside world
    reachashishs2 Resident: for these are relevant there
    reachashishs2 Resident: and essential even
    reachashishs2 Resident: but to explore
    reachashishs2 Resident: the inner world
    reachashishs2 Resident: u need to develop
    reachashishs2 Resident: extraordinary faculties
    reachashishs2 Resident: much higher than reasoning
    reachashishs2 Resident: and intellect
    Eliza Madrigal: my understanding of non-duality is of a context or quality that is beyond inside/outside...
    Eliza Madrigal: so something like Joseph Campbell described with "inner reaches of outer space" there seems a way not to choose between but rather hm...
    Eliza Madrigal: not be pinned down to either intro/extro?
    reachashishs2 Resident: the world
    reachashishs2 Resident: in essense
    reachashishs2 Resident: is an illusion
    reachashishs2 Resident: hinduism
    reachashishs2 Resident: defines
    reachashishs2 Resident: this as maya
    reachashishs2 Resident: fickle
    reachashishs2 Resident: and fake
    reachashishs2 Resident: the west
    reachashishs2 Resident: engages too much in maya
    reachashishs2 Resident: and takes it for real
    reachashishs2 Resident: it thinks
    reachashishs2 Resident: it has conquered
    Santoshima Resident: kind of a generaization there, alpha
    reachashishs2 Resident: mankind
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yet to be averse also takes it as real...
    reachashishs2 Resident: by
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
    Santoshima Resident: hi
    reachashishs2 Resident: sending man to moon
    reachashishs2 Resident: but then again
    Santoshima Resident: theory that was a ruse
    reachashishs2 Resident: the west
    reachashishs2 Resident: is deluded
    reachashishs2 Resident: in thinking so
    Santoshima Resident: a studio photo op
    Zen Arado: Hi San
    Santoshima Resident: has been writen
    Santoshima Resident: t
    Santoshima Resident: hi zen
    Santoshima Resident: the "west"
    Santoshima Resident: is what, alpha?
    Santoshima Resident: consumer sulture
    Santoshima Resident: capitalism
    Santoshima Resident: what ism
    Santoshima Resident: is the "west"
    Santoshima Resident: what religion
    Santoshima Resident: is the "west
    Santoshima Resident: anything non-Hindu?
    reachashishs2 Resident: u said itall san
    reachashishs2 Resident: it*
    Santoshima Resident: to you, your definition, please
    Santoshima Resident: i didn't give one
    Eliza Madrigal: the dialog between Eastern and Western mindsets is just beginning, I feel ...
    reachashishs2 Resident: anything to do with consumerism
    Lucinda Lavender: hi san:)
    Santoshima Resident: hi luci
    reachashishs2 Resident: and materialistic
    reachashishs2 Resident: values
    Santoshima Resident: and doesn't consumer culture exist in the "east"
    Zen Arado: UG is woth looking at
    reachashishs2 Resident: spreading like contagion
    Zen Arado: worth
    Santoshima Resident: yes
    reachashishs2 Resident: when i am saying west
    reachashishs2 Resident: i mean consumerist values
    Zen Arado: we should do a study of his teaching
    Santoshima Resident: i see, thanks, alpha
    reachashishs2 Resident: no geographical strings attached
    Santoshima Resident: UG stands for?
    reachashishs2 Resident: :)4
    Eliza Madrigal: hard to argue that in the US especially, we've bought into objects as having meaning... but now we are having inconvenient awakenings that cause us to look deeper
    reachashishs2 Resident: under graduate
    Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti
    Lucinda Lavender: inconvienient awakings
    Lucinda Lavender: like that
    Zen Arado: Hi Alf
    Lucinda Lavender: way of saying
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
    Santoshima Resident: hello mighty
    Alfred Kelberry: legs crossed - nice, eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Luci... it really describes something that I've felt personally but more and more see all around
    Alfred Kelberry: hi, alpha - new guy! :)
    Santoshima Resident: ok, you mean J. Krishnamurti
    reachashishs2 Resident: yeah
    Eliza Madrigal: boxy , we've been exploring east/west, consumer culture... so much
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Mighty Pirate
    Zen Arado: no, UG Krishnamurti
    Santoshima Resident: ah, ok
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, nice topic!
    Alfred Kelberry: what major differences did you find?
    Zen Arado: lookk at the link
    Zen Arado: 'He was unrelated to his contemporary Jiddu Krishnamurti, although the two men had a number of meetings.[1] To avoid confusion he was usually referred to as "U.G".'
    Eliza Madrigal: well the question of whether there can be integration, mainly (what I keyed into anyway)
    reachashishs2 Resident: there can be a sufffusion of values
    reachashishs2 Resident: the west can imbibe eastern traditions
    Zen Arado: you know why they do koans in Zen?
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i think soon enough there will be only one consumer culture - american :)
    reachashishs2 Resident: and the east can borrow
    reachashishs2 Resident: modernist concepts
    Santoshima Resident: why zen?
    reachashishs2 Resident: replace that with chinese
    Zen Arado: to help free us from intellectualizations
    Santoshima Resident: imbibe as in "consume", alpha
    Santoshima Resident: ?
    reachashishs2 Resident: if u will
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: some might see a flower as an object... but is it?
    Santoshima Resident: not
    Zen Arado: but we Westerners dont like that
    Zen Arado: anyway I have to go
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Zen, thanks
    Santoshima Resident: bye Zen
    Zen Arado: byee thanks
    reachashishs2 Resident: it cud be delusion
    Santoshima Resident: good to see you
    Alfred Kelberry: alpha, chinese set out strongly on the course to western consumerism
    Santoshima Resident: india, too
    reachashishs2 Resident: nods
    Lucinda Lavender: I should go too. carry on and I will post to the wiki....
    Santoshima Resident: plastics led the way to hell
    Santoshima Resident: lead
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Luci, so much
    Lucinda Lavender: sure;a0
    Lucinda Lavender: ooops
    Santoshima Resident: if there is such a thing it is of human making
    Lucinda Lavender: sure:)
    Santoshima Resident: bye luci
    Alfred Kelberry: the major goal of free market is to extend outward until there is nothing else left to concur :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Will look up about UG
    reachashishs2 Resident: sl, the platform,
    reachashishs2 Resident: is a perfect blend
    reachashishs2 Resident: of east,wets
    reachashishs2 Resident: west*
    Alfred Kelberry: san, sadly, i read how this western trend influence declining respect for elderlies
    Eliza Madrigal: well in SL we come in knowing that we are taking part in a dream...
    Santoshima Resident: sorry boxy, don't know what you're refering too
    Santoshima Resident: r
    Santoshima Resident: in sl we learn that?
    Eliza Madrigal: well it is one way of approach I should say
    Santoshima Resident: in sl we learn the techniques of disembodyment, i think
    Santoshima Resident: i
    Santoshima Resident: how to be " in the head"
    Santoshima Resident: and disconnect from body
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it can be an apt parallel ... perhaps double edged
    Santoshima Resident: is my sense, after 1 year online
    Santoshima Resident: it is a physical drain
    Santoshima Resident: bye ~ heading into the rainy day
    Eliza Madrigal: it is a physical drain, grant that...
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye
    Alfred Kelberry: san, asian cultures are known for their piety towards elderly people. it is in decline now due to western influence where hating parents is sort of a common thing.
    Eliza Madrigal: are you familiar with the economist who wrote "Black Swan"
    Eliza Madrigal: he said aloud that he feels the economic crisis was not bad enough...
    Eliza Madrigal: because although it gave a glimpse of fear
    Eliza Madrigal: it did not demand fundamental change of our ways of doing things
    Eliza Madrigal: I've seen families moving back in together a lot in Miami... sort of interesting as one effect
    reachashishs2 Resident: again spirtuaality demands moderation
    reachashishs2 Resident: the crisis
    reachashishs2 Resident: was a fallout of
    reachashishs2 Resident: our excesses
    reachashishs2 Resident: and
    reachashishs2 Resident: relentless pursuit
    reachashishs2 Resident: of lucre
    reachashishs2 Resident: no one
    reachashishs2 Resident: followed the 'middle path'
    reachashishs2 Resident: especially the wall street guys
    reachashishs2 Resident: depraved individuals
    reachashishs2 Resident: in every sense of the word
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i think it presents all the evidence for change, but... it's not working :)
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, alpha, no more balance anymore
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, down the road, to go to an extreme in rejecting, is another kind of idealism that has its own pitfalls?
    reachashishs2 Resident: no
    Alfred Kelberry: but who if not us we should blame for this?
    Eliza Madrigal: right, nowhere to point
    Eliza Madrigal: all implicated
    reachashishs2 Resident: that's renouncement
    reachashishs2 Resident: u give up everything
    Eliza Madrigal: renunciation... by choice...
    Alfred Kelberry: eliza, rejecting what?
    reachashishs2 Resident: selflessly
    reachashishs2 Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: but if there is no choice to make then the renunciation doesn't really mean that
    Eliza Madrigal: so.. form/emptiness....
    reachashishs2 Resident: there's always a choice
    Eliza Madrigal: rejecting materialism Alf... or typically thought of as 'western' ideals
    reachashishs2 Resident: a second chance
    reachashishs2 Resident: god's always gracious
    reachashishs2 Resident: certainly
    reachashishs2 Resident: materialism
    reachashishs2 Resident: as A CONCEPT
    Alfred Kelberry: oh... no, i believe in how alpha said the middle path. any radical inclination is harmful.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    reachashishs2 Resident: WAS fuelled by western consumption
    Eliza Madrigal: there is just a kind of tricky matter of incorporating the time we have had.... if one takes a long view...
    Eliza Madrigal: so, like with the Florida Everglades restoration...
    Eliza Madrigal: there was this acceptance that yes, it had been plundered
    Eliza Madrigal: and treated badly...
    Eliza Madrigal: so then they came up with all kinds of strategties to fix it...
    reachashishs2 Resident: yeah
    Alfred Kelberry: i think capitalism (greed) + socialism (equality) is the path to equanimity :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but what was needed / is needed, is that the ecosystem that grew up with the ill effects... be incorporated
    Eliza Madrigal: how so Boxy?
    --BELL--
    Alfred Kelberry: how sweden or germany do that (or try to)
    Alfred Kelberry: there's a strong capitalist presence, but it is regulated by social policies
    Alfred Kelberry: dharmic balance :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: alpha is IMing thanking for a nice discussion but had to go
    Alfred Kelberry: although, under the influence of neo liberals (backed by the u.s.) it skews towards capital
    Alfred Kelberry: ah, nice :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well I think selling the US the idea of being Sweeden hasn't worked....
    Eliza Madrigal: even if some of us think that might be nice to try, hah
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, the pro capital ideals became ingrained in americans for the last 20 years of free market hegemony
    Eliza Madrigal: so there has to be some blend with respect for both 'sides'
    Alfred Kelberry: anything social is dubbed "commie"
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, as i mentioned :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I generally agree... fun to try to tease out the distinctions and see how there might be 'practical application' ;-)
    Alfred Kelberry: the occupy movement was this missing element in stabilizing the course
    Eliza Madrigal: agree
    Eliza Madrigal: still potential there but thunder taken away by the pretend horse race of US elections
    Eliza Madrigal: btw do you keep seeing the railcar come through the pavliion?? lol
    Alfred Kelberry: occupy was very practical :)
    Alfred Kelberry: er... nope
    Eliza Madrigal: it is still around just not thriving
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a kind of network to tap at the right time
    Alfred Kelberry: i enjoy your lovely avatar :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd better go... daughter just made breakfast, yum...
    Alfred Kelberry: easy to skip railcars :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, how nice! finally, the baby thing gets paid off! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Alfred Kelberry: bon appetite :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah well..
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, bye for now.... oh, please read last night's session... missed you!
    Eliza Madrigal: sleeping pup maybe...
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, not good time for me
    Eliza Madrigal: ah well maybe need to find a way for it to work / email with pema or...?
    Eliza Madrigal: anyway, better go
    Alfred Kelberry: i've seen an email from pema. will read.
    Eliza Madrigal: k :)
    Eliza Madrigal waves
    Alfred Kelberry: it's ok. i'll try to make it when i can.

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