2012.07.29 08:00 - Guardian Session

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    Present at this Guardian session were Agatha, Aphrodite, Arch, Druth, Eos, Lila (who just dropped in), Korel (briefly), Riddle and Zen.

     

    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi aggers
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Druth
    druth Vlodovic: hi agg, hey everyone
    Agatha Macbeth: and brucie the gas man :p
    druth Vlodovic: beans for breakfast no doubt
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi druth hi,um, Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello K
    Korel Laloix: heya
    Korel Laloix: brb
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
    zabuton_relax blue: Could not find animation '00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000'. :p
    Aphrodite Macbain: what IS Bruce up to?
    Bruce: Bog snorkeling.
    Agatha Macbeth: Good question!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bog?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is the pollution that bad?
    Bruce: but didn't have a snorkel, so this will have to do.
    druth Vlodovic: a gas mask isn't going to do you much good underwater
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it's just Ohio
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Zen
    druth Vlodovic: hi zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: Waves at Zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe it's just Bruce...
    Agatha Macbeth: Could be
    Zen: Hi all
    druth Vlodovic: I remember putting on a coal respirator at work and thinking "wow, what nice fresh air. I should wear this all the time!"
    Agatha Macbeth: Erk
    Korel Laloix: What is a coal respritor?
    Agatha Macbeth wonders if anyone else is coming
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should start then
    druth Vlodovic: you use coal to absorb the chemicals in the air
    Korel Laloix: Oh OK.. so nothing to do with mining.
    Agatha Macbeth: Does anyone remember what Liz wanted to talk about in her email?
    Agatha Macbeth: I deleted it unfortunately :(
    Aphrodite Macbain: looks...
    Aphrodite Macbain: It has been three weeks since the last meeting and those present may want to
    discuss possible themes (or continue the quality exploration in sessions).
    It would also be good to hear a report from the WG, to remind of any ongoing matters.

    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, thx
    Agatha Macbeth: *Does* the WG have anything to report?
    Zen: quality exploration?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Themes-
    Korel Laloix: brb.. relog
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce? Can you remember. We welcomed Vorder
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Archie :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and continue to work on the licensing agreement
    Agatha Macbeth: LTNS
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Arch: Hello everyone, ltns
    Agatha Macbeth: Right, thanks Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: and WB Ruthy Bruce :p
    Aphrodite Macbain: sans mask
    Zen: Hi Arch, bruce
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: He's having major lag problems
    Agatha Macbeth: So, looks like we need to sort out topics for next two weeks?
    Arch: Always did dislike being Ruthied
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes although the discussion about science etc is going great funs
    Aphrodite Macbain: hehe I mean guns
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should carry on with it then
    Agatha Macbeth: for another week at least
    Zen: isn't that just for theme sessions?
    Agatha Macbeth: Dunno
    Aphrodite Macbain: Well, all our sessions are becoming a form of theme sesssion
    Aphrodite Macbain: They have been fora few months
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: I can't get to them cos of timing
    Zen: me too
    Aphrodite Macbain: thhee ddiscussions can be carried intothe other sessions too.But not necessarily with Pema or Alfred attending
    Aphrodite Macbain: There is a lot to use
    druth Vlodovic: has there been an effort to collate the info from the science discussions?
    Aphrodite Macbain: that can come out of thee theme sessions on Monday and Thurs nights
    Arch: I've been totally out of touch, but perhaps the notion that sessions where the GOC established a theme were usually better, so you guys have simply formalized that??
    Aphrodite Macbain: No druth - but there is stuff on the wiki
    Aphrodite Macbain: There havebeen special sessions on Mon and Thu nights Arch discussing the application of a sciwentific process on PAB meetings
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry about my typing. Am just waking up
    Zen: where is it on the Wiki?
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd have tolook but Eliza made a space
    Zen: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Theme_Sessions
    Aphrodite Macbain: miniseries of 8 theme sessions over 4 weeks
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if Bruce is ok?
    Arch: Looking at the wiki page, it's a good overview of how PAB is evolving.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether I could make a suggestion:
    Riddle Sideways whispers:  hi all
    Zen: Hi Riddle
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Rid
    Agatha Macbeth: Good to see you
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    druth Vlodovic: brb
    Agatha Macbeth: So do we need topics for next two weeks?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps the guardians of the other meetings could refer to the wiki covering these theme discussions, and pull out some subjects for discussion from them.
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe
    Aphrodite Macbain: Please see above suggestion.
    Zen: agree with Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: So much is said in those theme discssions,it would be interesting to explore particular aspects of them.
    Arch: I think Aph's suggestion has merit
    Zen: I did that in my session lst week
    Arch: It would help to convey the suggestion to all who will be hosting meetings
    Aphrodite Macbain: Or we could look at the list that Bruce and I provided
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Lil :)
    Zen: Hi Lila :)
    Lila Darkmatter: Hi everyone
    Lila Darkmatter: hope it is okay for me to sit in today
    Agatha Macbeth: I know that dress
    Zen: like 'quality' what is it?
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know that dress too!!
    Lila Darkmatter: droppeth like the gentle rains from heaven...
    Agatha Macbeth: The quality of mercy is not strained
    Lila Darkmatter: or er something or other :)
    Agatha Macbeth: That's the one
    Lila Darkmatter: Will that be the topic this week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: onto the earth beneath
    Aphrodite Macbain: What would be the topic?
    Aphrodite Macbain: What is the quality of mercy?
    Zen: I thought it was from 'The Art of Motorcycle maintenance'
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Nah, Merchant of Venice
    Agatha Macbeth: The thing that is not strained Aph ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Merchant of Venice
    Aphrodite Macbain: thinks of rinsing spaghetti
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Zen: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Portia I think...
    Lila Darkmatter: Mercy is a word not often used these days... is it considered antiquated?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good lawyer talk
    Agatha Macbeth: It seems to feature chiefly in religious talks
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is often used when discussing judgement
    druth Vlodovic: you only need mercy when judging someone
    Aphrodite Macbain: or when a decision is made and leniency is aksed for
    Riddle Sideways: hi Eos
    Agatha Macbeth: That sounds about right
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Eos
    Zen: or when going to inflict punishment
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello E
    Zen: Hi Eos
    Lila Darkmatter: Hi Eos
    Lila Darkmatter: PORTIA: The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
    Arch: Mercy implies a power relationship, with the more powerful bering merciful toward the less powerful
    Lila Darkmatter nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am not sure how we can apply it to PAB
    Eos Amaterasu: (hi gang)
    Zen: yes
    druth Vlodovic: being merciful towards yourself is an even more complicated problem
    Eos Amaterasu: 1st be meriful to yourself
    Zen: it is just one quality
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: merciful
    Eos Amaterasu: merrifull also
    druth Vlodovic: judement and mercy, how they affect reality
    Agatha Macbeth: Merry and merciful...nice
    Lila Darkmatter: and lively
    Lila Darkmatter: mercy up yourself...
    Riddle Sideways: oh, mercy me
    Lila Darkmatter: hah
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Forgive yourself?
    Eos Amaterasu: is this a potential "theme"?
    Lila Darkmatter: the phrase 'quality of mercy" began the banter
    Eos Amaterasu: nice
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed E, why not?
    Agatha Macbeth: A good one
    Arch: From a google search: a modern equivalent w/b "Look, I can't force you to give me a break here, but it would benefit us both if you did."
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Lila Darkmatter: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps we aretalking about the quality of our discussions in PaB.
    Aphrodite Macbain: deepslistening,90 sec breaks,being meaciful
    Aphrodite Macbain: and mearciful
    Aphrodite Macbain: and merciful
    Aphrodite Macbain: at my spelling for instance
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    druth Vlodovic: nearciful, you can't be hard on others without being harsh yourself lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Merciful too
    Agatha Macbeth: You are forgiven dear :p
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Aggers :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: YW
    Arch: Really, Aph, that is a very good observation.....both literally and figuratively ....breaks bestow the mercy of contemplation
    Riddle Sideways: is it being proposed that we have a topic-o-the-week that is hard to spell and type correctly?
    Lila Darkmatter: we've tried everything else
    Agatha Macbeth: Seems to be working...
    Aphrodite Macbain: grins at Riddle
    Eos Amaterasu: also in allowing yourself to be, unedited, in a 90 secs, that is being merciful
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: we can use special characters like in Samúð's name
    Aphrodite Macbain: I thinkthis topic and aspects ofit could spreadover into two weeks
    Zen: I liked Eos's comment in last theme meetting 'V'
    Agatha Macbeth: There certainly seems a lot to talk about
    Aphrodite Macbain: how being mercifulto ourselves and others transforms the quality of our discussions
    Eos Amaterasu: ? what comment?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Zen: 'Eos Amaterasu: being able to just sit an be with your self without altering yourself is beginning of trusting
    Zen: how much can we be ourselves?
    Aphrodite Macbain: trusting yourself?
    Lila Darkmatter: nice, yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice
    Zen: we spend so much time pleasing others
    Zen: living up to how they expect us to be
    Agatha Macbeth: Or annoying others ;-)
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Zen: how could we dare to be ourselves
    Zen: or is there such a thing?
    Eos Amaterasu looks at Aggers
    Agatha Macbeth adjusts her hair
    Eos Amaterasu: we are nought-y
    Zen: it's part of the self we invent?
    Zen: or being the o
    Zen: the self others invent for us
    Agatha Macbeth: 0
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear,here we go...
    Zen: (goes quiet again)
    Eos Amaterasu: there's mutual plasticity in in how we effect each other....
    Agatha Macbeth: 0 dear
    Lila Darkmatter imagines Alfred if given a topic like "mutual plasticity" ... hehe....
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes,very much so,and we wouldbe happier if wewereawareof that.
    Zen: a worse way to put it...'chameleons'
    Eos Amaterasu: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: About time for him to arrive actually
    Aphrodite Macbain: That what we say affects others for instance
    Lila Darkmatter: yes Aph
    Lila Darkmatter: interesting, Arch!
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm... invented self vs inner self (?)
    Arch: The invented self is not bad in and of itself.....it allows the individual to move smoothly through a complex web of different personalities and viewpoints,. It is only when one can no longer tell the invented self from the inner self that problems arise.
    Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes I confuse Aph with her typist
    Zen: really we are everybody
    Eos Amaterasu: we are CPUs, are we not CPUs?
    Zen: but most don't like that :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aph is a part of her typist
    druth Vlodovic: we have to allow ourselves before we can even see the seams between invented and true self
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, yes, let those be
    Aphrodite Macbain: an extension of her typist
    Lila Darkmatter: mmm
    Zen: only considering topics
    Lila Darkmatter: great angles... just a few minutes to narrow them to topics if desired...
    Aphrodite Macbain: we were taling about ourselves -and not juding them. But if we have no self, then it is silly to try judging something that dosn't exist
    druth Vlodovic: oh, there's a topic, "define "exists""
    Lila Darkmatter: :))
    Zen: in a way that is true Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: 1. Do we have a self that we judge?
    Eos Amaterasu: to exist or ot to exist, that is the question
    Aphrodite Macbain: Cogito ergo sum?etc
    Arch: On a metaphysical level, I may have not "self", but on a concious level I experience a "self", and as I age and learn and interact with different groups, i give birth to many "invented selves"
    Eos Amaterasu: no, if non cogito, sum?
    Eos Amaterasu: (druth: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/00._Time)
    Lila Darkmatter: merciful quality of pauses is a lovely angle, as Aph and Arch brought, and also "being ourselves or sitting with ourselves" from Zen and Eos... but not sure how to frame...
    Eos Amaterasu: (talks about existing...)
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    druth Vlodovic: ty
    Lila Darkmatter: brb
    Arch: So, taking a clue from Lila...top #1 "The mericiful quality of pauses"
    Arch: Topic #2 Being and sitting with ourselves"
    Eos Amaterasu: "quality of mercy in in PaB practice"
    Arch: Topic #3 "What is the self?"
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Eos
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like that
    Eos Amaterasu: a small topic, Arch :-)
    Arch: I am a small entity, Eos :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps put the self into a particular context
    Lila Darkmatter: "invented selves" ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: our selves as avatars
    Eos Amaterasu: self aliasing
    Zen: 'Is scientific reductionism a viable method for the investigation of existence?...one that is suggested to me by what Alf has been saying lately
    Aphrodite Macbain: are we our avatar?
    Zen: all manifestations
    Zen: even the meat avatar
    Zen: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I like the idea of investigating the quality of mercy in awareness experience, particularly in90-sceond lab sessions
    Arch: That's 3 votes for the quality of mercy
    Lila Darkmatter: so should we choose the avatar/selves topic?
    Lila Darkmatter: for 2?
    Eos Amaterasu: our avatars our selves
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: with a question mark at the end
    Eos Amaterasu: don't beg for mercy, vote for it!
    Lila Darkmatter: :) seems that is one week's topic...
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol os
    Aphrodite Macbain: Eos
    Lila Darkmatter: and # 2?
    Lila Darkmatter: zen you're question seems central to what the group is steadily working to find out, very much entangled and evolving
    Zen: I am always talking about no self
    Lila Darkmatter: your*
    Zen: maybe peole get fed up with that
    Eos Amaterasu: very Zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: That can be incorporated into that discussion Zen
    Zen: it is a central issue to me
    Aphrodite Macbain: If there is no self,then who is our avatar?
    Zen: but others mostly don't see it i think
    Lila Darkmatter: well, 'no self' is posited
    Zen: or aren't interested..just the way it is...
    Riddle Sideways: is there no self when the sim reboots
    Eos Amaterasu: if there is no self it cannot be a central issue for you
    Arch: Zen, if I may ask a question: If you have no self, who is here with us today?
    Aphrodite Macbain: If there is no self,then who is our avatar?
    Zen: an illusionary self
    Eos Amaterasu: is there a real self?
    Zen: an illusory avatar
    druth Vlodovic: I tend to create realities out of ephemera, so the concept of something not being real just because it doesn't exist seems odd
    Lila Darkmatter: many traditions use different ways of saying the same thing - 'actualized self' for instance, so not sure we should frame no self as given but posited
    Aphrodite Macbain: This can be a really interesting discussion.
    Lila Darkmatter: given, but*
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can raise it at the 1pm session
    Zen: it is in every spiritual tradition in one form or another I think
    Lila Darkmatter: and psychology has different ways of talking about identities and expressions
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: no self? (with ? mark)
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh doesn't it just!
    Lila Darkmatter: that works :)
    Lila Darkmatter: haha Agatha :))
    Eos Amaterasu: thanks Zen
    Zen: oh have to go
    Zen: byee all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Who is leaving?
    Arch: Bye illusory Zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: It cant be Zen. He doesn't exist
    Eos Amaterasu: Ch'an is leaving
    Agatha Macbeth: Charlie?

    Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'll go homeand look for myself
    druth Vlodovic: if someone who doesn't exist leaves doesn't that mean we have more people left?
    Eos Amaterasu: "the only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts"
    Agatha Macbeth: and Boxy
    Aphrodite Macbain: high math druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Arch: Actually the math is a - 0 - a
    Eos Amaterasu: 0
    Arch: a minus zero equals a
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: oO0Oo
    Lila Darkmatter: have to go... thank you Agatha and everyone, and for letting me sit in
    Agatha Macbeth: 00000000000

    Zero tolerance?

    Aphrodite Macbain: where?
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care babe
    Eos Amaterasu: thnsx, bye !
    Lila Darkmatter: ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: ciao belllissimi!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Glad you came
    Arch: Returning all TV sets to their owners....bye
    Agatha Macbeth: and (presumably) Druth :p
    Agatha Macbeth: and Aph
    druth Vlodovic: have fun all
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) Byee. I think we've done our job. Will you be posting this Aggers
    druth Vlodovic: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: I will indeed dear
    Riddle Sideways: bye and thank all
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care
    Riddle Sideways: :)
     

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