2012.07.29 08:00 - Guardian Session

Present at this Guardian Session were Agatha, Aphrodite, Arch, Druth, Eos, Lila (who just dropped in), Korel (briefly), Riddle and Zen.

Agatha Macbeth: Hello Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Druth
druth Vlodovic: hi agg, hey everyone
Agatha Macbeth: and brucie the gas man :p
druth Vlodovic: beans for breakfast no doubt
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi druth hi,um, Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Hello K
Korel Laloix: heya
Korel Laloix: brb
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
zabuton_relax blue: Could not find animation '00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000'. :p
Aphrodite Macbain: what IS Bruce up to?
Bruce: Bog snorkeling.
Agatha Macbeth: Good question!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bog?
Aphrodite Macbain: Is the pollution that bad?
Bruce: but didn't have a snorkel, so this will have to do.
druth Vlodovic: a gas mask isn't going to do you much good underwater
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it's just Ohio
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Zen
druth Vlodovic: hi zen
Aphrodite Macbain: Waves at Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe it's just Bruce...
Agatha Macbeth: Could be
Zen: Hi all
druth Vlodovic: I remember putting on a coal respirator at work and thinking "wow, what nice fresh air. I should wear this all the time!"
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Korel Laloix: What is a coal respritor?
Agatha Macbeth wonders if anyone else is coming
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should start then
druth Vlodovic: you use coal to absorb the chemicals in the air
Korel Laloix: Oh OK.. so nothing to do with mining.
Agatha Macbeth: Does anyone remember what Liz wanted to talk about in her email?
Agatha Macbeth: I deleted it unfortunately :(
Aphrodite Macbain: looks...
Aphrodite Macbain: It has been three weeks since the last meeting and those present may want to
discuss possible themes (or continue the quality exploration in sessions).
It would also be good to hear a report from the WG, to remind of any ongoing matters.
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, thx
Agatha Macbeth: *Does* the WG have anything to report?
Zen: quality exploration?
Aphrodite Macbain: Themes-
Korel Laloix: brb.. relog
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce? Can you remember. We welcomed Vorder
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Archie :)
Aphrodite Macbain: and continue to work on the licensing agreement
Agatha Macbeth: LTNS
Agatha Macbeth nods
Arch: Hello everyone, ltns
Agatha Macbeth: Right, thanks Aph
Agatha Macbeth: and WB Ruthy Bruce :p
Aphrodite Macbain: sans mask
Zen: Hi Arch, bruce
Agatha Macbeth grins
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: He's having major lag problems
Agatha Macbeth: So, looks like we need to sort out topics for next two weeks?
Arch: Always did dislike being Ruthied
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes although the discussion about science etc is going great funs
Aphrodite Macbain: hehe I mean guns
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we should carry on with it then
Agatha Macbeth: for another week at least
Zen: isn't that just for theme sessions?
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno
Aphrodite Macbain: Well, all our sessions are becoming a form of theme sesssion
Aphrodite Macbain: They have been fora few months
Agatha Macbeth nods @ Aph
Agatha Macbeth: I can't get to them cos of timing
Zen: me too
Aphrodite Macbain: thhee ddiscussions can be carried intothe other sessions too.But not necessarily with Pema or Alfred attending
Aphrodite Macbain: There is a lot to use
druth Vlodovic: has there been an effort to collate the info from the science discussions?
Aphrodite Macbain: that can come out of thee theme sessions on Monday and Thurs nights
Arch: I've been totally out of touch, but perhaps the notion that sessions where the GOC established a theme were usually better, so you guys have simply formalized that??
Aphrodite Macbain: No druth - but there is stuff on the wiki
Aphrodite Macbain: There havebeen special sessions on Mon and Thu nights Arch discussing the application of a sciwentific process on PAB meetings
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry about my typing. Am just waking up
Zen: where is it on the Wiki?
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd have tolook but Eliza made a space
Zen: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Theme_Sessions
Aphrodite Macbain: miniseries of 8 theme sessions over 4 weeks
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if Bruce is ok?
Arch: Looking at the wiki page, it's a good overview of how PAB is evolving.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether I could make a suggestion:
Riddle Sideways whispers:  hi all
Zen: Hi Riddle
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Rid
Agatha Macbeth: Good to see you
Agatha Macbeth nods
druth Vlodovic: brb
Agatha Macbeth: So do we need topics for next two weeks?
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps the guardians of the other meetings could refer to the wiki covering these theme discussions, and pull out some subjects for discussion from them.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe
Aphrodite Macbain: Please see above suggestion.
Zen: agree with Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: So much is said in those theme discssions,it would be interesting to explore particular aspects of them.
Arch: I think Aph's suggestion has merit
Zen: I did that in my session lst week
Arch: It would help to convey the suggestion to all who will be hosting meetings
Aphrodite Macbain: Or we could look at the list that Bruce and I provided
Agatha Macbeth nods
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Lil :)
Zen: Hi Lila :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi everyone
Lila Darkmatter: hope it is okay for me to sit in today
Agatha Macbeth: I know that dress
Zen: like 'quality' what is it?
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I know that dress too!!
Lila Darkmatter: droppeth like the gentle rains from heaven...
Agatha Macbeth: The quality of mercy is not strained
Lila Darkmatter: or er something or other :)
Agatha Macbeth: That's the one
Lila Darkmatter: Will that be the topic this week?
Aphrodite Macbain: onto the earth beneath
Aphrodite Macbain: What would be the topic?
Aphrodite Macbain: What is the quality of mercy?
Zen: I thought it was from 'The Art of Motorcycle maintenance'
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Nah, Merchant of Venice
Agatha Macbeth: The thing that is not strained Aph ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Merchant of Venice
Aphrodite Macbain: thinks of rinsing spaghetti
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Zen: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Portia I think...
Lila Darkmatter: Mercy is a word not often used these days... is it considered antiquated?
Aphrodite Macbain: Good lawyer talk
Agatha Macbeth: It seems to feature chiefly in religious talks
Aphrodite Macbain: It is often used when discussing judgement
druth Vlodovic: you only need mercy when judging someone
Aphrodite Macbain: or when a decision is made and leniency is aksed for
Riddle Sideways: hi Eos
Agatha Macbeth: That sounds about right
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Eos
Zen: or when going to inflict punishment
Agatha Macbeth: Hello E
Zen: Hi Eos
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Eos
Lila Darkmatter: PORTIA: The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
Arch: Mercy implies a power relationship, with the more powerful bering merciful toward the less powerful
Lila Darkmatter nods
Aphrodite Macbain: I am not sure how we can apply it to PAB
Eos Amaterasu: (hi gang)
Zen: yes
druth Vlodovic: being merciful towards yourself is an even more complicated problem
Eos Amaterasu: 1st be meriful to yourself
Zen: it is just one quality
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: merciful
Eos Amaterasu: merrifull also
druth Vlodovic: judement and mercy, how they affect reality
Agatha Macbeth: Merry and merciful...nice
Lila Darkmatter: and lively
Lila Darkmatter: mercy up yourself...
Riddle Sideways: oh, mercy me
Lila Darkmatter: hah
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Forgive yourself?
Eos Amaterasu: is this a potential "theme"?
Lila Darkmatter: the phrase 'quality of mercy" began the banter
Eos Amaterasu: nice
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed E, why not?
Agatha Macbeth: A good one
Arch: From a google search: a modern equivalent w/b "Look, I can't force you to give me a break here, but it would benefit us both if you did."
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Lila Darkmatter: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps we aretalking about the quality of our discussions in PaB.
Aphrodite Macbain: deepslistening,90 sec breaks,being meaciful
Aphrodite Macbain: and mearciful
Aphrodite Macbain: and merciful
Aphrodite Macbain: at my spelling for instance
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
druth Vlodovic: nearciful, you can't be hard on others without being harsh yourself lol
Agatha Macbeth: Merciful too
Agatha Macbeth: You are forgiven dear :p
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Aggers :-)
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Arch: Really, Aph, that is a very good observation.....both literally and figuratively ....breaks bestow the mercy of contemplation
Riddle Sideways: is it being proposed that we have a topic-o-the-week that is hard to spell and type correctly?
Lila Darkmatter: we've tried everything else
Agatha Macbeth: Seems to be working...
Aphrodite Macbain: grins at Riddle
Eos Amaterasu: also in allowing yourself to be, unedited, in a 90 secs, that is being merciful
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: we can use special characters like in Samúð's name
Aphrodite Macbain: I thinkthis topic and aspects ofit could spreadover into two weeks
Zen: I liked Eos's comment in last theme meetting 'V'
Agatha Macbeth: There certainly seems a lot to talk about
Aphrodite Macbain: how being mercifulto ourselves and others transforms the quality of our discussions
Eos Amaterasu: ? what comment?
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Zen: 'Eos Amaterasu: being able to just sit an be with your self without altering yourself is beginning of trusting
Zen: how much can we be ourselves?
Aphrodite Macbain: trusting yourself?
Lila Darkmatter: nice, yes
Aphrodite Macbain: nice
Zen: we spend so much time pleasing others
Zen: living up to how they expect us to be
Agatha Macbeth: Or annoying others ;-)
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen: how could we dare to be ourselves
Zen: or is there such a thing?
Eos Amaterasu looks at Aggers
Agatha Macbeth adjusts her hair
Eos Amaterasu: we are nought-y
Zen: it's part of the self we invent?
Zen: or being the o
Zen: the self others invent for us
Agatha Macbeth: 0
Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear,here we go...
Zen: (goes quiet again)
Eos Amaterasu: there's mutual plasticity in in how we effect each other....
Agatha Macbeth: 0 dear
Lila Darkmatter imagines Alfred if given a topic like "mutual plasticity" ... hehe....
Aphrodite Macbain: yes,very much so,and we wouldbe happier if wewereawareof that.
Zen: a worse way to put it...'chameleons'
Eos Amaterasu: yes
Agatha Macbeth: About time for him to arrive actually
Aphrodite Macbain: That what we say affects others for instance
Lila Darkmatter: yes Aph
Lila Darkmatter: interesting, Arch!
Eos Amaterasu: hmm... invented self vs inner self (?)
Arch: The invented self is not bad in and of itself.....it allows the individual to move smoothly through a complex web of different personalities and viewpoints,. It is only when one can no longer tell the invented self from the inner self that problems arise.
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes I confuse Aph with her typist
Zen: really we are everybody
Eos Amaterasu: we are CPUs, are we not CPUs?
Zen: but most don't like that :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Aph is a part of her typist
druth Vlodovic: we have to allow ourselves before we can even see the seams between invented and true self
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, yes, let those be
Aphrodite Macbain: an extension of her typist
Lila Darkmatter: mmm
Zen: only considering topics
Lila Darkmatter: great angles... just a few minutes to narrow them to topics if desired...
Aphrodite Macbain: we were taling about ourselves -and not juding them. But if we have no self, then it is silly to try judging something that dosn't exist
druth Vlodovic: oh, there's a topic, "define "exists""
Lila Darkmatter: :))
Zen: in a way that is true Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: 1. Do we have a self that we judge?
Eos Amaterasu: to exist or ot to exist, that is the question
Aphrodite Macbain: Cogito ergo sum?etc
Arch: On a metaphysical level, I may have not "self", but on a concious level I experience a "self", and as I age and learn and interact with different groups, i give birth to many "invented selves"
Eos Amaterasu: no, if non cogito, sum?
Eos Amaterasu: (druth: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/00._Time)
Lila Darkmatter: merciful quality of pauses is a lovely angle, as Aph and Arch brought, and also "being ourselves or sitting with ourselves" from Zen and Eos... but not sure how to frame...
Eos Amaterasu: (talks about existing...)
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
druth Vlodovic: ty
Lila Darkmatter: brb
Arch: So, taking a clue from Lila...top #1 "The mericiful quality of pauses"
Arch: Topic #2 Being and sitting with ourselves"
Eos Amaterasu: "quality of mercy in in PaB practice"
Arch: Topic #3 "What is the self?"
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Eos
Aphrodite Macbain: I like that
Eos Amaterasu: a small topic, Arch :-)
Arch: I am a small entity, Eos :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps put the self into a particular context
Lila Darkmatter: "invented selves" ?
Aphrodite Macbain: our selves as avatars
Eos Amaterasu: self aliasing
Zen: 'Is scientific reductionism a viable method for the investigation of existence?...one that is suggested to me by what Alf has been saying lately
Aphrodite Macbain: are we our avatar?
Zen: all manifestations
Zen: even the meat avatar
Zen: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I like the idea of investigating the quality of mercy in awareness experience, particularly in90-sceond lab sessions
Arch: That's 3 votes for the quality of mercy
Lila Darkmatter: so should we choose the avatar/selves topic?
Lila Darkmatter: for 2?
Eos Amaterasu: our avatars our selves
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: with a question mark at the end
Eos Amaterasu: don't beg for mercy, vote for it!
Lila Darkmatter: :) seems that is one week's topic...
Aphrodite Macbain: lol os
Aphrodite Macbain: Eos
Lila Darkmatter: and # 2?
Lila Darkmatter: zen you're question seems central to what the group is steadily working to find out, very much entangled and evolving
Zen: I am always talking about no self
Lila Darkmatter: your*
Zen: maybe peole get fed up with that
Eos Amaterasu: very Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: That can be incorporated into that discussion Zen
Zen: it is a central issue to me
Aphrodite Macbain: If there is no self,then who is our avatar?
Zen: but others mostly don't see it i think
Lila Darkmatter: well, 'no self' is posited
Zen: or aren't interested..just the way it is...
Riddle Sideways: is there no self when the sim reboots
Eos Amaterasu: if there is no self it cannot be a central issue for you
Arch: Zen, if I may ask a question: If you have no self, who is here with us today?
Aphrodite Macbain: If there is no self,then who is our avatar?
Zen: an illusionary self
Eos Amaterasu: is there a real self?
Zen: an illusory avatar
druth Vlodovic: I tend to create realities out of ephemera, so the concept of something not being real just because it doesn't exist seems odd
Lila Darkmatter: many traditions use different ways of saying the same thing - 'actualized self' for instance, so not sure we should frame no self as given but posited
Aphrodite Macbain: This can be a really interesting discussion.
Lila Darkmatter: given, but*
Aphrodite Macbain: I can raise it at the 1pm session
Zen: it is in every spiritual tradition in one form or another I think
Lila Darkmatter: and psychology has different ways of talking about identities and expressions
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eos
Eos Amaterasu: no self? (with ? mark)
Agatha Macbeth: Oh doesn't it just!
Lila Darkmatter: that works :)
Lila Darkmatter: haha Agatha :))
Eos Amaterasu: thanks Zen
Zen: oh have to go
Zen: byee all
Aphrodite Macbain: Who is leaving?
Arch: Bye illusory Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: It cant be Zen. He doesn't exist
Eos Amaterasu: Ch'an is leaving
Agatha Macbeth: Charlie?

Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'll go homeand look for myself
druth Vlodovic: if someone who doesn't exist leaves doesn't that mean we have more people left?
Eos Amaterasu: "the only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts"
Agatha Macbeth: and Boxy
Aphrodite Macbain: high math druth
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Arch: Actually the math is a - 0 - a
Eos Amaterasu: 0
Arch: a minus zero equals a
Aphrodite Macbain: oh
Aphrodite Macbain: oh
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: oO0Oo
Lila Darkmatter: have to go... thank you Agatha and everyone, and for letting me sit in
Agatha Macbeth: 00000000000

Zero tolerance?

Aphrodite Macbain: where?
Agatha Macbeth: Take care babe
Eos Amaterasu: thnsx, bye !
Lila Darkmatter: ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: ciao belllissimi!
Aphrodite Macbain: Glad you came
Arch: Returning all TV sets to their owners....bye
Agatha Macbeth: and (presumably) Druth :p
Agatha Macbeth: and Aph
druth Vlodovic: have fun all
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) Byee. I think we've done our job. Will you be posting this Aggers
druth Vlodovic: :)
Agatha Macbeth: I will indeed dear
Riddle Sideways: bye and thank all
Agatha Macbeth: Take care
Riddle Sideways: :)