2012.07.08 19:00 - Let's Get Empirical

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Cal! Hey, San!
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Santoshima :)
Calvino Rabeni: Bruce, you've been working out !
Santoshima Resident: good evening :)
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: I wish!
Santoshima Resident: yes, bruce is buff!
Calvino Rabeni: I'd recognize that laugh anywhere!
Santoshima Resident: sorry to be late ... whadid I miss in the first 4 minutes?
Bruce Mowbray: nothing, San.
Calvino Rabeni: Hi's, I think
Bruce Mowbray: Hi's and Hey's.
Santoshima Resident: hey, good
Santoshima Resident: has there been a topic this week?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, there has been, something about spiritual practices in everyday life.
Calvino Rabeni: Good one ! (?)
Calvino Rabeni: I was wondering where to jump into it.

Editor's Note: On the face of it I thought this might not be the easiest topic.  Perhaps because (a) the somewhat lofty-sounding banner of the word "spiritual" is not easy to march beneath in the absence of a social consensus about what that means, and (b) such practices (should we admit to having them) are generally private and like delicate trees resist being transplanted from the sheltered soil of an individual life-space into the broader more exposed ground of consensus reality.  In addition there are some enduring philosophical difficulties in attempting to bridge the gap between the inner world of the Subject, which is where the value of such practices presumably originate, and the "show me, prove it" values of the Object world.  We have a theme session coming up on science and spirituality which might get at some philosophical reasons this is interesting and/or challenging.  Certainly the 13th century philosopher Roger Bacon must have encountered some of this same sense of difficulty in the beginning as he contemplated the basis of empiricism.

The medieval English philosopher Roger Bacon (ca. 1214-1294) insisted on the importance of a so-called science of experience, or "scientia experimentalis." In this respect he is often regarded as a forerunner of modern science.  - from the Gale Encyclopedia of Biography

"So that as tennis is a game of no use in itself, but of great use in respect it maketh a quick eye and a body ready to put itself into all postures; so in the mathematics, that use which is collateral and intervenient is no less worthy than that which is principal and intended."
Roger Bacon

Santoshima Resident: hmmm
Bruce Mowbray: What is "everyday life"?
Calvino Rabeni: Aphro I think followed more of the preceding conversations
Santoshima Resident: could jump in with sweeping
Calvino Rabeni: she might have some momentum
Calvino Rabeni: a running start
Calvino Rabeni: into the deep end of the pool
Santoshima Resident: or, i'll offer the mother racoon and two kits that dropped by yesterday mid-afternoon
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. SOunds refreshing.
Santoshima Resident: looking for cat kibble
Bruce Mowbray: OH! I also have raccoons. Please say more.
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Aphro!
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph!
Santoshima Resident: hi Aph
Santoshima Resident: hi Aphrodite :)
Bruce Mowbray: I am SO SORRY that I could not make your botanical paintings gathering today, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: This is a fine group!
Santoshima Resident: how did your opneing go today, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: You'reuplatebruce!
Aphrodite Macbain: WReally well thanks! Lots of people from here and meloeria
Santoshima Resident: nice
Bruce Mowbray: Arrived home [finally] about two hours after your session had ended.
Aphrodite Macbain: Melioria
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful!
Calvino Rabeni: I think we were starting the topic of the week with a newsreel about animal sightings ?
Bruce Mowbray: raccoons.
Santoshima Resident: yes, young and fierce baby racoons
Aphrodite Macbain: wow!hmmm
Santoshima Resident: the spiritual of the everyday
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, fierce and intelligent.
Aphrodite Macbain: ties to link the two!
Aphrodite Macbain: tried
Calvino Rabeni: I saw bird reverse predator strategies today ... hummingbirds were chasing crows, crows were chasing eagles
Aphrodite Macbain: The wonder of thosel ittle clever fingers
Calvino Rabeni: (bald eagles)
Bruce Mowbray: amazing, Cal.
Santoshima Resident: very cool
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes I watch seagulls and crows chase eagles alot
Calvino Rabeni: Except the eagle had a companion that would loop around covering its mate's tail
Santoshima Resident: yup, have seen that
Santoshima Resident: good strategy
Calvino Rabeni: and go after the crow chasing its partner
Calvino Rabeni: from behind
Bruce Mowbray: These observations are awesome!
Aphrodite Macbain: Never heard of a hummingbid chasing a crow though. I suppose when nests are concerned...
Bruce Mowbray: awesome, also*
Santoshima Resident: hummers are quite fierce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Lusi!
Santoshima Resident: Luci! hello :)
Bruce Mowbray: Luci!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. fast, noisy and efficient
Calvino Rabeni: yes chasing other hummers away from the foxglove
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Luci
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cinda :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hummers are wonderful -- I watch them almost every day.
--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: coming in for a landing
Aphrodite Macbain: protecttheir territory. I think this is the busiest time
Lucinda Lavender: sorry
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Calvino Rabeni: sorry
Santoshima Resident: sorry, too
Santoshima Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-D
Lucinda Lavender: sorry I am so slow
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Santoshima Resident: you are?
Santoshima Resident: slow?
Lucinda Lavender: finding my seat etc
Aphrodite Macbain: why do you say that Luci
Calvino Rabeni: sorry I am so pixely
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Sorry I am so buff.
Lucinda Lavender: a pixely pixie
Santoshima Resident: ahh, best to consider well when taking a seat ~ no rush
Santoshima Resident: sorry i am so grumpy a lot of the time
Aphrodite Macbain: ?!
Bruce Mowbray: OK, any more repentance?
Lucinda Lavender: sorry I am sorry
Aphrodite Macbain brings out her hair vestand whips
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: I have to tellyou that I have just returned from the Exotic magical Marigold Hote - it was fun
Aphrodite Macbain: Judi Dench was great as was Maggie Smith
Lucinda Lavender: I have heard it was good!
Santoshima Resident: super, mind telling a brief synopsis
Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, movie I take it
Aphrodite Macbain: I lollled
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Hi stev
Santoshima Resident: so that i don't have to go ...
Santoshima Resident: hiya Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Bruce Mowbray: At the risk of overwhelming all of you with even more "information," I am highly recommending a book that I just began reading today -- which was recommended during a wonderful session this weekend on "spiritual life" and the SL environment. . .
Aphrodite Macbain: The Best Exotic marigold Hotel. Takes place in India - Jaipur and Udaipur
stevenaia Michinaga: a movie I was intending to see
Lucinda Lavender: hi Steve
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Steve!
Lucinda Lavender: name Bruce?
Aphrodite Macbain: Helo Sstevenaia
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005QF0MGG/ref=docs-os-doi_0
Bruce Mowbray: It is utterly amazing.
Bruce Mowbray: and has caused me to question everything I do in SL.
Calvino Rabeni  *click* (gets Kindle edition with "Buy with 1-click" button)

Editor's Note: This is also apropos of the above theme.  Here's a jacket blurb from the book:

“The Mind-Body Split is a pervasive condition/affliction in the developed world, wholly un-recognized; yet fundamental to the great worldwide problems of health, environment, and economic inequity. Ivo Quartiroli’s Digitally Divided Self masterfully examines the effects of the insulated digital experience on the mind and the body self: exacerbating illusions and the Mind-Body Split; and contrasts it to the processes of self-discovery, growth, and healing: true inter-connectedness with nature, each other, and our selves. If the digital age is to solve our real problems, rather than create them, it will be with the knowledge contained in The Digitally Divided Self."
— Frederic Lowen, son of Alexander Lowen, Executive Director, The Alexander Lowen Foundation

Quartiroli, Ivo (2011). The Digitally Divided Self: Relinquishing our Awareness to the Internet . Silens. Kindle Edition.

Aphrodite Macbain: What makes it such a good book Bruce?
Aphrodite Macbain: for example?
Santoshima Resident: i was just going to suggest that Bruce ...
Bruce Mowbray: Well, questioning "reality" is one "good" thing, for sure.
Bruce Mowbray: Really, San?
Aphrodite Macbain: suggest what?
Calvino Rabeni: I have one that *might* keep it company on the shelf
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Hello-Avatar-Rise-Networked-Generation/dp/0262015714
Bruce Mowbray: Please say more!
Santoshima Resident: yup, has been the issue of questioning over months
Bruce Mowbray: thank you, Cal.
Santoshima Resident: thanks cal
Santoshima Resident: brb, reading these
Bruce Mowbray: ooooooow! The Kindle edition is VERY expensive.
Lucinda Lavender: I cannot open the link Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Mine only cost $2.99.
Bruce Mowbray: kk. Just a sec. I will do it again.
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005QF0MGG/ref=docs-os-doi_0
Bruce Mowbray: How is that one?
Bruce Mowbray: The title is "The Digatally Divided Self"
Bruce Mowbray: The Digitally Divided Self: Relinquishing our Awareness to the Internet
Lucinda Lavender: got it:) first one worked on the second time
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Calvino Rabeni: I've been struggling through the latest conventional book on this topic too - http://www.amazon.com/Networked-The-Social-Operating-System/dp/0262017199/
Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, I just began reading it tonight -- and it is TERRIFIC!
Lucinda Lavender: !
Calvino Rabeni: Nice, Bruce
Lucinda Lavender: Yay for terrific things
Bruce Mowbray: omg -- another $16 Kindle edition . . .
Calvino Rabeni wonders if our bodies have something like insulin to control information overload
Calvino Rabeni: or develop infodiabetes
Aphrodite Macbain: looks interesting. It's frustrating b/cCanadain Amazon sites dont often have what is available on American Amazon sites
Bruce Mowbray: This fellow (an Italiano, Aph!) is astoundingly astute.
Calvino Rabeni: Good eve, Paradise !
Aphrodite Macbain: really?
Calvino Rabeni: What a nice group
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Paradise
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Para!
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, I was just thinking that a again
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Paradise
Bruce Mowbray: Anything you're sorry about, Para?
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves hiya cal, Aph, Bruce, Luci, Stev and san nice to see everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: raccoons, eagles, hummingbirds?
Lucinda Lavender: we got rid of our sorryies as we entered I guess
Bruce Mowbray: ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: dumpedthem in the pool
stevenaia Michinaga: there are always good and bad aspects to anything, even SL
Santoshima Resident: hiya Paradise :)
Bruce Mowbray: cool!
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Para:)
Aphrodite Macbain: Did you order that book through Amazon bruce or did you go out and buy it?
Lucinda Lavender: interesting wondering about infpo diabetes
stevenaia Michinaga: Not sure a book on the Virtues of SL would sell
Bruce Mowbray: I ordered it for my Kindle through Amazon.
Bruce Mowbray: This is definitely NOT about the virtues of SL, Steve.
Aphrodite Macbain: how doset that work? You can download it directly to Kindle?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I order it; they put it in my "Cloud; then it comes into my Kindle automatically.
Bruce Mowbray: Bought two books today that way.
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel a little antedeluvian
stevenaia Michinaga: that's what I mean, Bruce, if you wnat to sell something, write about the bad aspects of it
Aphrodite Macbain: I still get books from the library
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Here is the second book that I ordered:
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RLBWYY/ref=docs-os-doi_0
Aphrodite Macbain: what bad aspects?
Bruce Mowbray: I don't want to sell anything, actually.
Lucinda Lavender: looks interesting.
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Bruce, you probably remember a book titled "Steal This Book" ?
Aphrodite Macbain: It seems moreand more books are coming out on the subject of identity and the net.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes! I remembver that book!
Aphrodite Macbain: what wasit about?
Calvino Rabeni: It's a topic du jour, Aphro, yes
Bruce Mowbray remembers the book and tries to remember its revolutionary author.
Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_This_Book
Calvino Rabeni: Abbie Hoffman
Bruce Mowbray: Oh SURE!
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember when Shery Turkle wrote about it in the 90s - Life on Line - something like that
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember reading it and wondering how on earth people would become engaged with a person they never saw
Bruce Mowbray: That is fairly common now, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thinking how silly it was.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, I recognize both feelings- incredulousness
Bruce Mowbray: Pamala Clift writes that 70% of RL relationships now begin in social media.
Calvino Rabeni: it was pretty common in the 19th century too
Aphrodite Macbain: how Cal?
Paradise Tennant: yes through letters :)
Aphrodite Macbain: through letters?
Bruce Mowbray: arranged spouses, Cal?
Santoshima Resident: where does she get her stats from, Bruce?
Calvino Rabeni: Letters sent across the atlantic by sailing vessel
Santoshima Resident: 70% of people she knows?
Paradise Tennant: there are some wonders books on letter relationships :)
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know, actually. But her figures seem not to be much questioned.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. That's what I kep telling my friends
Aphrodite Macbain: My grandparents wrote to eachother for 5 years
Bruce Mowbray: No, 70% of ALL relationships now involve social media, she says.
Santoshima Resident: fiction
Aphrodite Macbain: and then got married as soon as they met again for the second time
Bruce Mowbray: Wow!
Bruce Mowbray: That's fasctinating, Aph,.
Aphrodite Macbain: the letters must have been good ones!
Bruce Mowbray: fascinating*
Calvino Rabeni: That is really "due diligence", Aph!
Lucinda Lavender: I have been learning how mother in law sisters would put their letters all to gether and send them...sort of like email now
Aphrodite Macbain: Brains engaging brains
Bruce Mowbray: Brains FORMING brains.
Lucinda Lavender: brains connecting
Aphrodite Macbain: that oo
Santoshima Resident: how about adding a little heart in there, without wanting to seem sentimental
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Well sure, San.
Paradise Tennant: hmm yes what I find interesting about sl is how well you know people just from your interreaction here when you meet then in rl a little different package but they are the person you know :)
Aphrodite Macbain: <3
Santoshima Resident: the heart is a muscle, needs exercise, connection
Calvino Rabeni: the brain's organ of engagement
Aphrodite Macbain: but it's connected to the head
Bruce Mowbray: EVERYTHING about us needs exercise and connection.
Santoshima Resident: same same, aph
Calvino Rabeni: the head bone is connected to the neck bone, ...
Lucinda Lavender: and you are all invited to dinner should you get near...
Bruce Mowbray: Which came first: the highly developed brain, or human technology?
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember being disappointed listening to someone's voice on Skype.
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps Bruce you just answered the topic of the week!
Paradise Tennant: sigh there is potato onion tart tonight with a fresh salad :)))
Bruce Mowbray: The technology PRECEDED the brain's development.
Aphrodite Macbain: It completely put me off. Whereas with words you can fillout the rest in your mind
Lucinda Lavender: I very much wish we could share it
Calvino Rabeni: I meant - EVERYTHING about us needs exercise and connection. - is one answer to "spiritual practices in everyday life"
Bruce Mowbray: We are FIRST physical -- and only later mental.
Aphrodite Macbain: can I ahve some Para?
Santoshima Resident: pass the tart, please
Aphrodite Macbain: I think we are both at once Bruce
Lucinda Lavender: the recipe is at Tea for Six...Potato and Onion Tart
Bruce Mowbray: Our brains are formed by our activities -- not the reverse.
Calvino Rabeni: Who are you calling a tart ?
Santoshima Resident: ty, luci
Lucinda Lavender: foods you usually have around the house
Aphrodite Macbain: /me'sstomach begins to rumble
Santoshima Resident: you, Cal, it's an endearment
Aphrodite Macbain realizes she needs to buy onions
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Paradise Tennant: http://teaforsix.com/2011/08/09/potato-and-onion-tart/
Paradise Tennant: looks fab :)
Aphrodite Macbain: thqanks!
stevenaia Michinaga: yum
Bruce Mowbray: Would remind everyone that tomorrow's 7 a.m. PaB session looks to be a WINNER.
Bruce Mowbray: Pema and Boxy.
Aphrodite Macbain realized she also needs to buy potatos
Calvino Rabeni goes rouge-like
Santoshima Resident: and olive oil
Lucinda Lavender: rouge...what is that? red?
Paradise Tennant: smiles I believe you are right we need to exercise just about everything
Aphrodite Macbain: OMG I'll try and wake up in time and bring my coffee
Lucinda Lavender: :))
stevenaia Michinaga: will be nice to read the logs
Calvino Rabeni: Will they step inside the ring ?
Bruce Mowbray: I will probably be one for the record books. . . Or, you can read it in the logs. It will be Eliza's session.
Aphrodite Macbain: they will be VERY VERY polite to each other
Aphrodite Macbain: They both have good points
stevenaia Michinaga: ponders reforming the young mind
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, polite I'm sure ... but the subject matter will be outstanding.
Aphrodite Macbain: some are sharper than others
Bruce Mowbray: I am also VERY concerned about young minds.
Aphrodite Macbain: I've enjoyed reading the emails
Aphrodite Macbain: why do you say that Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, reading through their emails.... and especially reading Pema's last one....
Bruce Mowbray: SOunds like a promising session.
Aphrodite Macbain: Haven't read the last one yet
Bruce Mowbray: Please do read it.
--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: I will once I make dinner
Bruce Mowbray: Pema says: "How about starting from scratch? First, we talk, putting a few ideas on the table as something we're interested to explore. Then, we pick one or two ways to explore them, in a kind of experiment which may or may not look like meditation. Let's see how far we can get for a while without looking for authorities elsewhere; we can always later compare notes with what other people have said in science and contemplation."
Lucinda Lavender: feels gentle
Calvino Rabeni: "If I understand you correctly, you are interested in the way science explores the nature of reality, but you mistrust what goes under the banner of spirituality, and you don't see a possible overlap between science and spirituality."
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the part about not looking for authorities elsewhere
Bruce Mowbray: I like the part about exploring from scratch.
Lucinda Lavender: like cooking something up
Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, I'm not predicting or expecting anything -- just looking forward to the experience.
Calvino Rabeni: Today I did a lot of walking ... walked to the climbing park twice, and it's about 35 minutes away. No computer, no media, and there was time to contemplate and ... WALK.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh! Wonderful, Cal!
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you plan to just listen/ or to participate as well?
Bruce Mowbray: (Mostly just listen, Aph.)
Santoshima Resident: really nice, cal ... beautiful day for walking
Calvino Rabeni: Thinking about your long walk, Bruce, and about walking as meditation
Calvino Rabeni: Perfect day for it
Aphrodite Macbain: Wallkng is the best!
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Well, I highly recommend walking for restoring balance to ANY situation.
Calvino Rabeni: Agree
Paradise Tennant: smiles love walking just great being outside
Aphrodite Macbain: I is as good as meddditating
Aphrodite Macbain: walking and talking with a friend is also good.
Aphrodite Macbain: I have some wonderful conversations walking around the sea wall
Lucinda Lavender: sometines thoughts come up that are sort of fresh
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! Thoughts and insights sort of bubble up when one walks.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- or you notice things you never have noticed before
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed.
Calvino Rabeni: I have a habit (or is it a practice) of walk & talk with friends, using the mobile phone if I'm not lucky enough to have them with me
Aphrodite Macbain: good idea
Aphrodite Macbain: something above moving through space
Calvino Rabeni: The climbing park has a pretty nice boulder field in it
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles- where is it?In a park?
Santoshima Resident: called so for rock-climbing?
Calvino Rabeni: artfully done, with a varying slope, and stones from 2 meters down to scree size
Aphrodite Macbain: Boulder field sounds serious
Paradise Tennant: like the word scree .. just a fun word :)
Calvino Rabeni: fun to say yes!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- it's fun to slide down scree slopesand scream
Santoshima Resident: yeah, sound slidey
Bruce Mowbray ponders the Hugs Bozo as a "scree" particle. . .
Aphrodite Macbain: the little rocks tummble in front of you bouncing as they go
Bruce Mowbray: The Hugs Bozo will be the next particle to be found -- after the Higgs, you understand.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope they find dlots of them
Aphrodite Macbain: lots
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, lots of hugs.
Aphrodite Macbain: but not too many bozos
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Bruce Mowbray: Folks, I am fading fast. Must get to bed.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for the company.
stevenaia Michinaga: night Bruce
Santoshima Resident: rest well dear Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for staying up
Lucinda Lavender: rest well...for the morn
Paradise Tennant: nite nite bruce sweet dreams :))
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Bruce :)
Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well
Aphrodite Macbain: nite
Bruce Mowbray: Good night, West Coasters!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: we are 4!
Calvino Rabeni: btw here's the rock park - https://picasaweb.google.com/1170076...eat=directlink
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: wow looks beautiful :)
Santoshima Resident: very cool ~ basalt columns?
Aphrodite Macbain: cement?
Santoshima Resident: doesnt' look like
Calvino Rabeni: natural granite and basalt (the boulder field)
Calvino Rabeni: the wall is I suppose, cast stone
Aphrodite Macbain: I must be going too but if any of you would like to viist my exhibition I will be glad to take you there
Calvino Rabeni: oh there actually are 3 natural basalt columns there also
stevenaia Michinaga: LM?
Calvino Rabeni: I had a chance earlier, beautiful work
Aphrodite Macbain: I sent an LM to everyone in an email
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh thanks Cal!
Santoshima Resident: i lost it aph, could you resend?
Santoshima Resident: i went to the sim, but couldn't find the LM
Paradise Tennant: put her hand up for the landmark too :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hope that worls Stevenaia
Aphrodite Macbain: works
stevenaia Michinaga: found the email http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Westphalia/75/188/2801
Santoshima Resident: ty
stevenaia Michinaga: am going now
stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye bye
Paradise Tennant: thanks aph nite nite stev
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Stev and Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: hugs all round
Santoshima Resident: bye bye APh, sweet dreams
Paradise Tennant: hugs aph enjoy dinner :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Cal.Keep on climbing
Calvino Rabeni: ty ...
Santoshima Resident: bye Stevie
Calvino Rabeni: walking actually :)
Lucinda Lavender: bye Steve
Calvino Rabeni: be well !
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks para Bye Cinda Stevenaia cal
Lucinda Lavender: Bye Aph!
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Lucinda Lavender: what was new and interesting on the walk Cal?
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Boxy:)
Santoshima Resident: hi Boxy :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: cal, good to see you :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Boxy !
Alfred Kelberry: aww, lovely outfit, para girl :)
Alfred Kelberry: classy as ever
Alfred Kelberry: cal, have you seen the new av of bruce?
Alfred Kelberry: remarkable resemblance of yours :)
Alfred Kelberry: except, you have no sun glasses
Alfred Kelberry: hi, myna
Calvino Rabeni: OH yes Bruce is buff though, I'm a skinny thing
Myna Maven: Hi.
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Myna:)
Alfred Kelberry: cal: yes, the girls of pab are all excited :)
Lucinda Lavender: welcome
Santoshima Resident: hi Myna
Myna Maven: Hi, all.
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Myna
Alfred Kelberry: wee! para is back :)
Myna Maven: Hi Calvino.
Alfred Kelberry: *dusts off para's dress from travel* :)
Paradise Tennant: funny sl logged me out
Paradise Tennant: smiles thanks boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: sl can do that
--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Santoshima Resident: retreating for the evening
Santoshima Resident: so long
Calvino Rabeni: Good night!
Myna Maven: Good night, Santoshima.
Calvino Rabeni: Think I will do the same ... the sun activates my cells 3 hours early these days
Lucinda Lavender: San...thanks again
Paradise Tennant: nite nite san :)
Lucinda Lavender: ok
Paradise Tennant: nite nite cal :) thank you
Myna Maven: Good night, Calvino.
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Myna, Para, CInda, Boxy
Alfred Kelberry: do any of your read sunday times?
Lucinda Lavender: Myna...I have not met you before...hi ...
Paradise Tennant: hiya myna welcome nice to see you :)
Lucinda Lavender: yes read Seattle Sunday Times
Myna Maven: Hi. I used to come around a long while ago. Was reading of a meeting I wanted to attend tomorrow and dropped in to check out and remember difference between rl time and sl time. So here I am.
Paradise Tennant: smiles we each in our little corners of the world have a sunday times :)
Alfred Kelberry: luci, on sunday mornings with coffee? :)
Lucinda Lavender: yes!
Lucinda Lavender: and guardian meetings
Lucinda Lavender: a meeting here Myna?
Alfred Kelberry: luci: ok, you're confirmed as a white person then :)
Lucinda Lavender: feel I should pass out picnic food for us all
Paradise Tennant: would definitely like some of that onion and potato tart :)
Lucinda Lavender: smailes at Boxy...
Lucinda Lavender: amiles
Myna Maven: Sorry. RL going on here I'm attending to.
Lucinda Lavender: I cannot spell today
Alfred Kelberry: myna, you mean email discussion?
Paradise Tennant: nods all good myna :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Myna Maven: No, I mean son and husband talking to me.
Lucinda Lavender: nodding
Alfred Kelberry: myna, i mean the reason you came. you said you were reading about a meeting.
Myna Maven: Anyway, I had seen discussion concerning the 7 am meeting and as I said I hadn't been to SL in well over a year and was reacquainting myself.
Lucinda Lavender: great
Alfred Kelberry: ok, got it
Myna Maven: Probably more like 2 years.
Alfred Kelberry: myna, what made you interested in this particular meeting?
Myna Maven: The discussion on nature of explorations.
Lucinda Lavender: super...
Lucinda Lavender: so cool
Lucinda Lavender: old friend of this place?
Alfred Kelberry: myna, why did you stop coming to meetings before?
Paradise Tennant: likes all the stirring of the pot that happens here
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Paradise Tennant: how perspective ideas experience all meld
Myna Maven: Because of some projects I was working on, and also because SL kept crashing on me.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: hopefully it's working fine now
Paradise Tennant: may I ask ....what kind of projects
Myna Maven: The last time I was back, tried several times and just kept crashing.
Lucinda Lavender: had some tmes like that myself...new version of viewer worked better for me
Lucinda Lavender: listens about projects
Myna Maven: I had tried the new version and it didn't work. I'm not sure what I'm using at the moment. Haven't looked. I'm sure there have been updates.
--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: myna, i'm glad this email exchange ignited your interest :)
Myna Maven: Yeah. Caught my eye. When I first began coming it was during the phenomenological days.
Alfred Kelberry: i have a question: do you think that the quality of explorations had dropped since the last time you attended?
Myna Maven: As for my project. I write. I was concentrating heavily on focusing and finishing something. Took a while.
Myna Maven: The quality of explorations? I haven't been here so I don't know. :)
Paradise Tennant: what do you think boxy ?
Alfred Kelberry: myna, i was wondering if the lack of quality had something to do with your absence :)
Alfred Kelberry: para, i think this is very much the case
Myna Maven: No. As I said, I really did have to focus on what I was writing.
Alfred Kelberry: ok, thank you
Paradise Tennant: what made the early explorations better in your eyes boxy ?
Myna Maven: And then the last time I returned, which must have been a year or so ago, SL kept crashing.
Alfred Kelberry: para, you must have missed my emails :)
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: I am mostly out of the loop :)
Lucinda Lavender: brb
Myna Maven: What do you miss?
Alfred Kelberry: para, in short, there was structure and scientific presence in explorations
Paradise Tennant: explain scientific presence
Alfred Kelberry: let me copy paste. i've said it too many times :)
Paradise Tennant: ok
Lucinda Lavender: back
Myna Maven: I don't think I got the copy paste?
Myna Maven: Maybe Alfred is still gathering it.
Paradise Tennant: nods I think so :)
Paradise Tennant: love the way his ears flip when he is really concentrating :)
Alfred Kelberry: gah, can't find it :)
Paradise Tennant: I guess I remain in mystery then :)
Myna Maven: Anyway, Alfred, yes, the recent email discussions really caught my eye.
--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: well, we had a shared framework of science in discussion of body mind problem and subject/object relation as laid out by pema's hypothesis
Alfred Kelberry: we did not take pab approach as is. it was tested and poked at with a critical eye.
Alfred Kelberry: it was structured, step at a time, with certain milestones in mind
Myna Maven: I'm not a scientist, am not a skeptic (though I like to think of myself as having a critical eye) and I enjoyed the discussions that came with the poking.
Paradise Tennant: maybe we should put up a sign with Pema's original hypothesis so we can ponder it when we are sitting here
Paradise Tennant: in between ... sharing recipes :)
Alfred Kelberry: even seeing the content of pab back then gives a hint. there were a lot of scientists with skeptical view on the matter. who later on left the group as it shifted towards spirituality.
Alfred Kelberry: para, good idea :)
Paradise Tennant: you don't think spirituality is scientific?
Paradise Tennant: always kind of think of it as .. skipping ahead to where science has not got to yet :)
Paradise Tennant: but is ...
Paradise Tennant: slowly ...
Alfred Kelberry: para, it is true conceptually. where science ends, god begins :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: think it is all one mix .. science helps us understand what we on the big questions already know .. on some level :)
Alfred Kelberry: i hope we will find out how both of them relate to pab's exploration on monday
Paradise Tennant: at 7 am :)
Paradise Tennant: I will be off to the mines :) but thinking of you and looking forward to reading the logs and pondering :))
Paradise Tennant: and feeling :)
Paradise Tennant: and hypothesizing :)
Myna Maven: Well, I plan to be here, even though I'm on EST and that will be rather early for me.
Alfred Kelberry: you mine well :)
Lucinda Lavender: Thanks for that Myna
Lucinda Lavender: I am not a scientist, not a writer, barely a thinker...and with all the questioning I have felt less sure I belong here
Lucinda Lavender: but even tho I say that I know I do
Paradise Tennant: there are all kinds of exploration lucinda and exploring with love is what you do so well .. and is perhaps far and away the truest :)
Lucinda Lavender: I am just sharing the feeling that has begun to get at me
Myna Maven: I don't know what the PAB meetings have been like recently. But if you're here, then there must have been some initial attraction...
Paradise Tennant: smiles how can anyone who has dolphins visit them not belong here :)
Lucinda Lavender: nodding
Lucinda Lavender: well I just do not feel aware enough of how to do the exploration in the proper way I guess
Paradise Tennant: lol
Myna Maven: What's "proper"?
Paradise Tennant: by its very nature exploration is .. an open.. field
Paradise Tennant: with all types of methodology approaches ..
Paradise Tennant: each has its merit
Lucinda Lavender: I think it might be phrasing questions in a certain order
Paradise Tennant: science yields an empirical understanding but .. there are so many types of understanding and emotional understanding is just as valid
Paradise Tennant: intelligence is a wide wide spectrum that encompasses the whole of us
Alfred Kelberry: luci, i think to me it's more of a habit to come here. as i suspect it is for many people out here. we come to chat and see each other; those we got intimate with during time in the group. but the pab exploration itself is something of a vague notion that is left from the old civilization :)
Myna Maven: Nice way of putting it.
Lucinda Lavender: I think I have experiences I have wanted to understand..
--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: well I have sensed a certain slipping
Myna Maven: A certain slipping?
Lucinda Lavender: I do feel like getting to a new level of understanding about something feels different than chatting about recipes
Lucinda Lavender: to tell the truth
Alfred Kelberry: luci, there are meditation groups in sl (at least they were) that would be more helpful to you if you what to understand how to do it
Paradise Tennant: what I always try to centre on is the flow of the moment that is being shared ... and depending on mood .. the mix of people.. it is always a little different session to session .. but I agree it is an excellent idea to have some structure that focuses the exploration
Lucinda Lavender: I am saying I may have slipped into a different way of being
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Alfred Kelberry: para: yes, and they're not in contradiction, but can co-exist and enrich each other
Paradise Tennant: smiles ...yes!
Paradise Tennant: we are rich beyond imagining :) really
Myna Maven: Agreed.
Paradise Tennant: luci can you say more about slipping into a different way of being :)
Lucinda Lavender: well I try to be in the moment...and somehow it has not been as much about new ideas..or deeper understanding
Lucinda Lavender: I think it has maybe I have not engaged enough
Lucinda Lavender: taking it all more lightly
Lucinda Lavender: I get tired of what I have to say too
Lucinda Lavender: when I first came it was like I rose to the occaision
Lucinda Lavender: I do not want to go on an on...:)
Lucinda Lavender: maybe the play part has not felt as playful ina certain way
Paradise Tennant: luci you are lovely heart centred being ..who always makes me smile.. frankly smiling .. is as sure a measure of progress as anything else ..
Paradise Tennant: when we get there .. count on smiling :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Paradise Tennant: and I believe at some point we are all going to get there ..
Lucinda Lavender: and we are already here which is pretty cool
Paradise Tennant: what at terrific thought .that no matter how many times you come back as june bug :) you are going to eventually get the gist of it :)
Alfred Kelberry: para, making smile is one thing, but if this is all you do, it gets tiresome in time
Paradise Tennant: it is a mix .. boxy ..
Paradise Tennant: your emotions tell you true things too
Alfred Kelberry: a mix of what?
Paradise Tennant: you will never really get it by just thinking
Paradise Tennant: thoughts .. or the feeble articulations we mentally do with words are never going to be able to explain the universe
Paradise Tennant: how could they possibly
Alfred Kelberry: what has this to do with the argument?
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: it is the elephant sitting beside the argument
Lucinda Lavender: lol
Alfred Kelberry: i'm sorry, i don't follow you
Lucinda Lavender: and he is drinking a cup of tea:)
Paradise Tennant: indeed and wearing a muffler with garish colours and a big smile
--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: i don't find exchange of elephant quotes to be of an exploration. we tend to refer to these spiritual concepts, but stating them over and over again will not advance our understanding.
Paradise Tennant: until you understand
Myna Maven: Sorry. I need to run. Especially if I'm going to be back here in 4 hours.
Paradise Tennant: nite nite myna thank you for joining us :)
Myna Maven: Bye everyone. Thanks for the discussion.
Lucinda Lavender: me too for the moment...thanks Myna...glad to have you
Paradise Tennant: nite nite luci sweet dreams :) my friend :)
Myna Maven: Now how does Dorothy get home again? It's been so long I've forgotten how to click my heels.
Lucinda Lavender: thank you all:)
Paradise Tennant: lol just follow toto he always gets there
Paradise Tennant: smiles at you :)
Paradise Tennant: offers you a cup of green tea :)
Alfred Kelberry: para, like in any field it's helpful to have a reference framework in which you operate to understand the subject of study. why would pab's exploration be exempt from it?
Alfred Kelberry: i'm having water :)
Paradise Tennant: it isn't
Alfred Kelberry: it's hot here
Paradise Tennant: what is so delight ful about it .. is that it encompasses the whole of being so there are so many reference points
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: think of being .. as say excel
Paradise Tennant: I always find very complicated programs are like cities
Paradise Tennant: we all find our little paths to do what we need to do but there is more than one path and it gets you to the same place
Paradise Tennant: some are faster
Paradise Tennant: some are slower
Paradise Tennant: some come with lots of numbers
Paradise Tennant: some are just cartoons sketched in chalk in rainstorm :)
Paradise Tennant: some have lovely structures that are neat .. tidy .. logical .. provable ..
Paradise Tennant: to a point
Paradise Tennant: others not so tidy .. not so provable ..
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's a good metaphor. but let's stick to the city as we go about exploring it and won't randomly poke in the sky in attempt to learn what is under our feet :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Alfred Kelberry: well, i have to run
Paradise Tennant: okies hon
Alfred Kelberry: a pleasure to see you, para girl :)
Paradise Tennant: sending you a huge hug :) big kiss on the nose and will look forward to reading this morning's log
Alfred Kelberry: and your new wardrobe items :)
Paradise Tennant: have a wonderful day my firend :)))
Alfred Kelberry: ok, bye :)