2008.10.22 13:00 - Stinky cheese to hungry ghosts

The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

Umbriel arrives.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Umbriel.
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Umbriel Levenque: slowly rezzing...
Quilty Bookmite: Take your time.
Faenik: �る��^^

Umbriel takes his seat but still looks rather grey for the moment.

Quilty Bookmite: You haven't rezzed completely for me.
Quilty Bookmite: How are you anyway? I see you have acquired a Faenik.
Quilty Bookmite: I don;t remember if you had it before. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: I'm well thank you. yourself
Umbriel Levenque: ?
Quilty Bookmite: I'm also well. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: It's been a while... you've been away?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Family funeral followed by a holiday.
Quilty Bookmite: I spent a week in Wales.
Umbriel Levenque: ah...

Getting to grips withthe technology. I touch the listener.

PaB Listener Master: Recording has started!
Quilty Bookmite: I forgot to switch the recorder on. I thought it happened automatically.
Umbriel Levenque: I believe we have to have at least one guardian present (with tag on)
Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
Quilty Bookmite: I thought activating the tag wasn't necessary.
Umbriel Levenque: well I am not entirely sure
Quilty Bookmite: But then I am out of touch. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: anything happening on 'playing rough' group front?

I set up the "Playing Rough" group some time ago and had quite a few people join, but I haven't done anything with it yet. The group is about challenging commercialism and potentially using their own tools against them, such as advertising.

Quilty Bookmite: Good question. I keep thinking I should set up a meeting.
Quilty Bookmite: I haven't done anything yet though. RL suddenly got in the way.
Umbriel Levenque: yeah... true
Faenik: �る��^^
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe I will set something up this weekend.
Umbriel Levenque: look forward to it Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Well, it should be fun.
Umbriel Levenque: :-)

I was on holiday when the meet in Princeton happened and haven't caught up on what happened there yet.

Quilty Bookmite: Heard much about the RL meet?
Umbriel Levenque: there are a few logs that people discuss about the fest
Umbriel Levenque: actually the discussion seems to still go on
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Haven't had a chance to look yet.
Umbriel Levenque: my impression is that people who participated enjoyed it
Quilty Bookmite: Good.
Quilty Bookmite: I think such things will be beyond me for a little while. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: In my younger days when I didn't have ties I would have gone.
Quilty Bookmite: Not that I regret anything. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: same here. it's difficult to plan ahead at the moment for me

Segaki, and the arrival of Dakini.

Quilty Bookmite: This weekend I am going to a Segaki festival...
Quilty Bookmite: Have you heard of it?
Umbriel Levenque: no I'm afraid. what is it?
Quilty Bookmite: It's also called (in English) The festival of the feeding of the hungry ghosts.
Umbriel Levenque: hungry ghosts... Japanese then
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
Umbriel Levenque: who's organising it? what is it for Quilty?
Quilty Bookmite: It's at my local Zen priory. Not specifically for me. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Fortuitous though, since it is abut helping those who have recently died.
Quilty Bookmite: hi Dakini
Dakini Rhode: hi :)
Umbriel Levenque: can't see the connection... hungry ghosts and recently deceased. the ghosts are symbols of our wants, needs and greeds that cannot be satisfied. is that right Quilty?
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I think the thinking is that sometimes those who have died can't move on because they are clinging to something.
Dakini Rhode: ah, hungry ghosts.... missed lunch?
Umbriel Levenque: heheh
Quilty Bookmite: I feel rather well fed thank you. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I just had some excellent stilton.
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: I see Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: My wife calls it stinky cheese.
Umbriel Levenque: what do you plan to 'feed'?
Dakini Rhode: i was about to say....
Umbriel Levenque: to the ghosts?
Dakini Rhode: about the cheese :P
Faenik: indeed?
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: There is usually a wide selection of food on offer. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Stilton might put some of them off.
Umbriel Levenque: heheh
Quilty Bookmite: My gran died a few weeks ago so I am hoping that if she is still hanging around the ceremony might help her move on.
Umbriel Levenque: hope so
Dakini Rhode: what ceremony is that?
Quilty Bookmite: Segaki. The feeding of the hungry ghosts.
Dakini Rhode: very nice :)
Quilty Bookmite: I am going to one this weekend.
Dakini Rhode: do you think your gram is a hungry ghost?
Quilty Bookmite: I don;t know she wasn't really herself for the last few years.
Dakini Rhode: ah, i know how that is
Quilty Bookmite: We all cling to something though.
Quilty Bookmite: She liked her chocolates and her sherry. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Dakini Rhode: haha
Quilty Bookmite: Although we can't offer aclohol. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Dakini Rhode: nectar :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Too sweet for me. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: interesting that alcohol cannot be offered... is it because it's been organised by Buddhists? or is it the case for the ceremony in general?
Quilty Bookmite: It is a Buddhist ceremony.
Dakini Rhode: i've seen a bit of sherry in some buddhist ceremonies
Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure it happens. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: But we have taken a precept against it.
Umbriel Levenque: I see
Faenik: �る��^^
Dakini Rhode: no exception for ceremonies?
Umbriel Levenque: the ghosts are depicted outside the Buddhist tradition too Quilty? or it is specifically a Buddhist symbol?
Quilty Bookmite: Not in this case. They probably do in Japan.
Dakini Rhode: and tibet :)
Quilty Bookmite: I think it is specifically a Zen Buddhist ceremony but I'm not sure.
Umbriel Levenque: I see
Umbriel Levenque: interesting Quilty. I've seen paintings of the ghosts but didn't know about the ceremony until now. learn something new all the time
Faenik loves wells!
Quilty Bookmite: I think the hungry ghosts are not exclusive to Zen.
Quilty Bookmite: They are in one of the 6 realms.
Dakini Rhode: they are not zen only :)
Dakini Rhode: they are always wanting, wanting, wanting and cannot be satisfied
Umbriel Levenque: but it's a Buddhist symbol?
Quilty Bookmite: As I thought. :-)
Dakini Rhode: it can be seen as a psychological state
Faenik: �る��^^

The hungry ghost in all of us. In SL too.

Quilty Bookmite: Yes. The hungry ghosts have very thin necks and anything they try and eat or drink turns to fire.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: yes Dakini...
Quilty Bookmite: A state where nothing can satisfy no matter how much you have, :-)
Umbriel Levenque: the food and the drink the ghosts want to take symbolise things we cling on in our lives possibly
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, including actual food and drink but also many other things.
Dakini Rhode: they can never quite "have" what it is they want, they are in a perpetual state of hunger
Umbriel Levenque: yes
Quilty Bookmite: A most unpleasant existence but I think it is pretty common in our everyday life.
Umbriel Levenque: as in the article you recommended Quilty, money, appearance, youth, power and so forth
Dakini Rhode: yes, in SL even :)
Umbriel Levenque: in SL too?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I got that link from a Buddhist monk who has an online blog.
Umbriel Levenque: was a good one ty
Quilty Bookmite: I certainly enjoyed it. You weren't at that chat were you?
Faenik: why not?
Umbriel Levenque: no I'm afraid. I read it on wiki
Quilty Bookmite: Someone actually read my transcript. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: cracked me up though... guessing celebrities game
Quilty Bookmite: I seem to recall it was pretty boring for the most part.
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I did very badly at that game.
Umbriel Levenque: heheh yeah I gathered that
Quilty Bookmite: I probably wasn't trying very hard.
Umbriel Levenque: I wonder what we cling on in SL Dakini
Umbriel Levenque: heheh
Quilty Bookmite: Appearance I guess.
Dakini Rhode: hmmm have you every been SL shopping?
Umbriel Levenque: yes I have been
Quilty Bookmite: Hard to avoid, isn;t it? The place is packed with shopping malls.
Faenik: could be
Dakini Rhode: IT IS???? haha
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Dakini Rhode: i'm so lazy about shopping, i stick to the places i know
Quilty Bookmite: It's like driving through the USA sometimes. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I have a tendency to browse at random, although I do it less these days.
Umbriel Levenque: yes it gets boring after a while
Quilty Bookmite: But yes, the spirit of the hungry ghost is definitely in SL. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: can't be avoided I suppose... humans are behind AVs here

The intensity of SL.

Quilty Bookmite: Yes. In some ways it is like a more intense version of reality.
Umbriel Levenque: intense?
Quilty Bookmite: Reality is tempered by the things we don't take much notice of. People don't bring those things into SL, just the things they really want.
Dakini Rhode: Interesting way to look at it, Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: I haven't yet seen a toilet in SL. :-)
Dakini Rhode: I observed once that the "bugs" in SL are the most real part of it
Dakini Rhode: i have :)
Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure they exist but probably special toilets. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, the bugs introduce flaws to perfection.
Dakini Rhode: i went to a gathering where i think there may have been a toilet decorating contest
Dakini Rhode: you know the blue porta-potties...
Quilty Bookmite: Sounds great. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Dakini Rhode: lol it was interesting to see what people did with theirs...
Quilty Bookmite: But not actually use them as toilets. :-)
Dakini Rhode: oh no, decorative only
Dakini Rhode: hmmm possibly a misuse of the word
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Mavi Lemon" from list.
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Faenik: why not?

Umbriel departs.

Umbriel Levenque: Hope to see you both again soon. Have a good night/day.
Quilty Bookmite: You too.
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Dakini Rhode: you too, Um :)
Quilty Bookmite: Bye.
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Umbriel Levenque" from list.

PaB and Real Life.

Dakini Rhode: did you talk about playasbeing before i arrived?
Quilty Bookmite: No. I don't think it has been mentioned. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Very remiss of me.
Dakini Rhode: haha now it has :)
Dakini Rhode: i did my bit :)
Quilty Bookmite: Want to say more?
Dakini Rhode: hmmm
Dakini Rhode: that was a 9 sec pause :)
Quilty Bookmite: Quite a long one. :-)
Dakini Rhode: no words came to mind :)
Quilty Bookmite: I have hardly thought about PaB in the last couple of weeks.
Quilty Bookmite: Except reading the emails of course.

Being a caregiver.

Dakini Rhode: nor have i, been occupied with mommy care
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. You being the mommy?
Dakini Rhode: although i do take frequent pauses
Dakini Rhode: no, my mother being the mommy
Dakini Rhode: and i the caregiver
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Sorry to hear that.
Dakini Rhode: these things tend to happen if you have any sort of longevity
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed.
Quilty Bookmite: My gran was put in a home because she needed a lot of care.
Quilty Bookmite: I can;t help feeling guilty about the way we treat the elderly here though.
Dakini Rhode: mom has been in and out the past several years
Dakini Rhode: trying to manage her in her own home has become a challenge
Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
Quilty Bookmite: She is at home now?
Dakini Rhode: yes and it is really a lesson for me
Dakini Rhode: we have drugs now which prolong life, but i wonder at the wisdom of it
Quilty Bookmite: The Chinese look after their elderly at home but I can't help feeling that is going too far te other way.
Dakini Rhode: if you have the family to do so, it's a option...
Dakini Rhode: we're trying it...
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
Dakini Rhode: there is really no cure for old age, so all the heart pills, the arthritis pills, etc. ... i wonder that they only prolong suffering
Dakini Rhode: of course nobody in the US wants to die...
Quilty Bookmite: It's a good point and probably another example of clinging.
Dakini Rhode: well i'm morbid, aren't i? sorry :)
Quilty Bookmite: But somehow it's inevitable. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: No need to apologise.
Quilty Bookmite: As a Buddhist you should feel free to talk about death and suffering. :-)
Dakini Rhode: i went to a buddhist teaching last weekend on chod practice
Dakini Rhode: indeed :)
Quilty Bookmite: I haven't heard of chod.
Dakini Rhode: chod is "cutting thru"
Dakini Rhode: sort of cutting thru attachment to appearances, that would be one aspect of it

Boddhisattvas with swords, confusion and so to bed.

Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Like Achalanatha. :-)
Dakini Rhode: oh, i have not heard of that :)
Dakini Rhode: as for chod, i only know some of the biography of it's originator, so far :)
Quilty Bookmite: Achalanatha carries a sword to cut through delusion.
Dakini Rhode: on, like Manjushri?
Quilty Bookmite: Similar, yes.
Quilty Bookmite: I may be getting mixed up. :-)
Dakini Rhode: so might i :)
Dakini Rhode: easy to do if i stray too far from personal experience :)
Quilty Bookmite: Easy for me when I'm tired. :-)
Dakini Rhode: what time is it there?
Quilty Bookmite: 10 p.m.
Dakini Rhode: late... it's time for my supper, actually
Quilty Bookmite: Which is late when you have a child.
Dakini Rhode: or when you are one :)
Quilty Bookmite: 5 p.m. there?
Dakini Rhode: yup
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Well, I'd better be going to bed.
Dakini Rhode: i'll let you get to your bed :)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight.
Dakini Rhode: be well :)
Quilty Bookmite: You too.