2009.05.24 19:00 - Late Arrival

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.


    I arrived about an hour into the session due to a number of natural and un-natural RL factors 


    Dakini Rhode: hi Moyra, Paradise, & fortune :)
    Fortune Crystal: Hi Dakini
    Paradise Tennant: hiya dakini .. gary
    Moyra Ares: back
    Gary Palmira: Hi all
    Moyra Ares: sorry had to make a cheese sandwich
    Moyra Ares: ok..so the avatar can meditate
    Fortune Crystal: yep, and the real person can do so also wherever they are
    Dakini Rhode: it seems difficult for me to resume chatting after 90 seconds of silence
    Dakini Rhode: i think i start to fall asleep :)
    Moyra Ares: practice :)
    Paradise Tennant: ;))
    Dakini Rhode: probably the hour :)
    Paradise Tennant: Yes :))
    Moyra Ares: so do we have topics in this hour?
    Moyra Ares: or are we coming up with something?
    Moyra Ares: im writing on a document about identity development in virtual space
    Paradise Tennant: welll is there anything someone would like to chat about
    Paradise Tennant: that sounds interesting very interesting
    Moyra Ares: yes we all develop identity in RL...and i wonder how much development do we do here
    Gary Palmira: it seems to me most people live in fantasy here
    Fortune Crystal: I think that one avenue of identity development is the look of the avatar. Afterall, you get to change the avatar and it can be human, animarl, vampire whatever.
    Gary Palmira: Sometimes the fantasy is better than real life
    Moyra Ares: does it make it less valuable for your identity development in a fantasy environment?
    Paradise Tennant: that would be sad
    Gary Palmira: that could be a problem after a while
    Gary Palmira: Afterall - you can look PERFECT here
    Paradise Tennant: well but you are only six inches tall and you do not get to .. to be tangible ..
    Gary Palmira: who cares
    Paradise Tennant: I have had dinner parties .. with my sl friends and everyone sits around and say how strange it is to not be a cartoon :))
    Gary Palmira: The brain cant tell the difference
    Moyra Ares: Identity is an umbrella term used throughout the social sciences to describe an individual's comprehension of him or herself as a discrete, separate entity.
    Fortune Crystal: I start to find that I admire the amount of creativity put into the unusual looking avatars
    Gary Palmira: between reality and fantasy
    Paradise Tennant: hmm but the heart does
    Gary Palmira: Well as i guy
    Paradise Tennant: wb dakini
    Dakini Rhode: ty
    Gary Palmira: i know my reaction to a perfect female avatar form
    Gary Palmira: can be intense
    Moyra Ares: :)
    Gary Palmira: Biological
    Moyra Ares: what birngs me to the next question of gender identity
    Gary Palmira: whats your question?
    Fortune Crystal: what is the question specifically regarding gender identity, Moyra. Great topic by the way
    Moyra Ares: any genderswapper here?
    Dakini Rhode: i could :)
    Gary Palmira: Nope
    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Paradise Tennant: was seriously thinking about a dog avatar though :)))
    Dakini Rhode: do you know you can just check a box in appearance mode to change the gender of your av?
    Gary Palmira: Thats the scary part
    Fortune Crystal: Nope. I thought about it for a split second but I really don't know what a guy does/would like to do on second life. I shop for clothes... girly things. Personally it would be hard to switch genders but that's just me. :-)
    Dakini Rhode: it's pretty weird
    Gary Palmira: Coz people get involved all the time
    Moyra Ares: the experiences we do in our avatars are valid i assume...so what if one is changing gender and starts to experience the opposit gender? how does it changes your core identity?
    Gary Palmira: I was shocked about the amount of sex that goes on
    Fortune Crystal: You know GAry, I see lots of signe=s for sex stuff and I just happen never to get to those places but the signs in stores I see for things you can buy is shocking
    Paradise Tennant: I think for some it is a way to explore theimselves on a different level
    Gary Palmira: A know someone who believes their life here is better than rl
    Gary Palmira: I know*
    Fortune Crystal: About the part about switching genders and how it changes your core identiy... I think that it can help a person find what they are lookign for, for example working out a fantasy relationship if the real life person has relationship issues/questions to explore I agree with PAradise
    Paradise Tennant: this is rl
    Paradise Tennant: though
    Fortune Crystal: Good point PAradise
    Paradise Tennant: really .. an extension . of rl that is intereactive on a different format but still rl
    Dakini Rhode: is anyone here the guardian of this session?
    Moyra Ares: nope
    Paradise Tennant: i am a newbie guardian
    Gary Palmira: i think people identify with concepts about themslves
    Paradise Tennant: not quite sure how to claim the session though
    Dakini Rhode: is this your session Paradise?
    Fortune Crystal: How does switching identies in SL differ froom reading a book whose main character is the opposite gender.
    Dakini Rhode: ah!
    Gary Palmira: That are usually not true
    Dakini Rhode: just touch the thing in the center that says Recording
    Paradise Tennant: if there is not another guardian here I suspect it migh tbe
    Dakini Rhode: lol
    Moyra Ares: fortune as reader your just an observer....in SL you have to make choices and interact with your environment
    Gary Palmira: There*
    Moyra Ares: of course we are all real
    Paradise Tennant: and this is a a social intereactive platform . I believe Ihave heard it described
    Dakini Rhode: hi Karoz
    Fortune Crystal: Yes, but reading is also an extension of real life and people can act in real life based on things they read in a book. aka non fiction biography ets
    Moyra Ares: no Artificial intelligence here
    Paradise Tennant: which is sorry for the slay ..just way cool
    Gary Palmira: Real people having fantasies with other real people
    Moyra Ares: what makes it real in some way
    Karoz Blogger: Are u meditating?
    Dakini Rhode: we're chatting, karoz
    Karoz Blogger: Ty.
    Paradise Tennant: welcome karoz .. no this is a discussion . sort of informal
    Dakini Rhode: poof
    Fortune Crystal: This is called "Play at being" I can see if I have a notecard for you if you want Karoz
    Paradise Tennant: please join us
    Moyra Ares: hi karoz
    Dakini Rhode: karoz poofed
    Moyra Ares: im slow sometimes ;)
    Fortune Crystal: Where were we in out conversation
    Dakini Rhode: i rely on my hud to tell me who's around :)
    Moyra Ares: that we define personality by our decisions we do
    Gary Palmira: I dont beleive that
    Moyra Ares: why?
    Fortune Crystal: please explain gary
    Gary Palmira: It goes way deeper than that
    Dakini Rhode: one of the aims of meditation practice is to learn to distinguish who we are not
    Moyra Ares: lease explain
    Gary Palmira: I believe people develope misconceptions about themselves
    Dakini Rhode: so in that sense experimenting with identity in a platform like SL can assist us
    Gary Palmira: Thats why so many peiople suffer
    Gary Palmira: Those misconceptions start in childhood
    Fortune Crystal: I agree Dakini. Here is a question, who says that there has to be a "misconception" and that it has to be "bad"
    Fortune Crystal: Why can't we change who we are everyday when we wake up in RL like we can in SL
    Gary Palmira: I never said it is bad
    Paradise Tennant: we do
    Fortune Crystal: Why is being one type of personality good
    Gary Palmira: It is all good
    Moyra Ares: because of habbits and patterns Fortune
    Gary Palmira: But it is not who we really are
    Fortune Crystal: I agree with gary
    Moyra Ares: breaking habbits and patterns is difficult
    Dakini Rhode: seeing is the first step
    Dakini Rhode: seeing the habits
    Paradise Tennant: every thought you have changes you
    Paradise Tennant: every action perception .
    Dakini Rhode: bringing awareness to it
    Fortune Crystal: But a habit and pattern is only bad if it doesn't make the person feel happy and joyful and happy or whatever the feeling the person is aiming to experience by doing the habbit and pattern
    Paradise Tennant: on some level .. maybe not in huge measure but the change is there always
    Gary Palmira: I drug addict feels very HAPPY taking drugs
    Fortune Crystal: Amd that is fine for the drug addict
    Fortune Crystal: It is the on looker who is judging it as bad
    Dakini Rhode: once you bring awareness to a habit, you have more choice whether to continue it or not
    Gary Palmira: Until it destroys his life
    Moyra Ares: saying that somebody is an addict is bad
    Gary Palmira: No
    Moyra Ares: addiction implies having difficulties
    Gary Palmira: My best friend was a drug addict
    Paradise Tennant: i am sorry
    Dakini Rhode: addiction implies lack of choice
    Gary Palmira: it was a great learning exprioence
    Fortune Crystal: What if the person wants to experience a life where they are high all the time and die at a young age
    Gary Palmira: He gave it up when he got AIDS
    Dakini Rhode: that's an interesting thought Fortune
    Moyra Ares: when i say somebody is an addict than im not realy sure that this is true...this somebody could easiely break a habbit but i allready imply with this opinion that he cant stop
    Fortune Crystal: I think addiction could also imply forgetting how to come out of the habbit. So the drug addict might know they have the choice of not doing drugs but they forget how
    Dakini Rhode: there may be more destructive habits than drug addiction
    Dakini Rhode: greed, for example
    Dakini Rhode: what about all those bankers who destroyed the economy
    Gary Palmira: YES
    Dakini Rhode: why did nobody say to them - you have a problem
    Dakini Rhode: this is somethign you can
    Dakini Rhode: can't handle by yourself?
    Fortune Crystal: true. but why should the impetuous be on another person to point out a problem of a person like a banker
    Dakini Rhode: or the angry warmongers
    Moyra Ares: i got once told drug addict..and this person was so convinced that i have a problem with this drug, that i was not able to tell her otherwise
    Gary Palmira: Why not
    Gary Palmira: Thats real courage to speak up
    Moyra Ares: i dont know...it made me feel uncomfortable that somebody is taking away my will
    Dakini Rhode: the social and economic consequences of greed have been enormous
    Fortune Crystal: I'm just saying maybe the banker thought they were doing a great thing for the world.
    Paradise Tennant: lol too many smart people in one room is always dangerous :)))
    Gary Palmira: It was a culture of greed
    Fortune Crystal: haha
    Gary Palmira: That even good people signed onto
    Fortune Crystal: I absolutely agree GAry
    Paradise Tennant: yes very much so a culture of materialism .. ofhaving
    Gary Palmira: Like a pack mentality
    Gary Palmira: Thats was individualism is such a sham
    Moyra Ares: dont bankers think they play a game? some sort of RL monopoly?
    Gary Palmira: We are all affect by each other
    Fortune Crystal: But the bankers would not have succeeded if the rest of us weren't there
    Dakini Rhode: Gary agreeing that everything is interconnected
    Paradise Tennant: well I agree our fundamental addiction is to the delusion of self . of ego :))
    Fortune Crystal: So we are just as liable in the greed becasue maybe we let ourselves be duped
    Paradise Tennant: one of the hardest ones to become unhooked from :)
    Gary Palmira: Yes but they had greater responsibility
    Gary Palmira: They failed in their leadership
    Fortune Crystal: But we allowed ourselves to be led
    Fortune Crystal: I see your point gary I am just showing another way of looking at things
    Dakini Rhode: i think it's interesting to look at things from different points of view
    Gary Palmira: I know and I appreciate that
    Moyra Ares: you may find one in one thouosand people who thinks in a greater scheme or plan and thinks of responsibility to the grerater good
    Gary Palmira: Yeah - that's a prolbem
    Gary Palmira: As the world becomes smaller
    Gary Palmira: the more we affect each other
    Fortune Crystal: yes, true
    Gary Palmira: We cannot avoid NOT being responsible
    Dakini Rhode: hello Dean
    Fortune Crystal: Hi Dean
    Paradise Tennant: hiya dean
    Moyra Ares: hi Dean
    DeanWolf Core: Greetings
    Moyra Ares: have a aeat dean :)
    Gary Palmira: Nice mask dude
    Fortune Crystal: I agree GAry. Everyone is responsible. And just like it is easy to be a banker who "Strays" or whatever, it should be easy to be successful at whatever you want to have happen in life. Maybe that is the charm of SL. Easy to switch and create whenever you want
    DeanWolf Core: ty, but not now
    DeanWolf Core: later
    Gary Palmira: Yes - many people here are very creative
    Gary Palmira: and resposible about it
    Paradise Tennant: it is a wonderful platform for creativity
    Fortune Crystal: Does it seem like in RL its harder to be creative? And if so why? I think that it is harder to be creative in RL
    Fortune Crystal: how is SL easier
    Moyra Ares: RL needs RL currency and resources
    Gary Palmira: Because here everything is a cartoon
    Dakini Rhode: i think it's much easier to do a small thing in SL and see it magnified immediately
    Dakini Rhode: instant gratification at a low cost
    Moyra Ares: i would love to build my houses in RL
    Dakini Rhode: me too :)
    Moyra Ares: but i dont have the place and the prims
    Moyra Ares: :))
    Dakini Rhode: i'd love to build a retreat center in RL
    Dakini Rhode: never even thought of it until SL
    Gary Palmira: You did a great job too
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Gary Palmira: In RL to be creativie in a large scale requires risk
    Gary Palmira: Here this risk is mostly in terms of time
    Paradise Tennant: yes good point
    Fortune Crystal: SL is also easier cuz you can just fly or teleport and save transportation time
    Fortune Crystal: you can be anywhere you want
    Paradise Tennant: yes great commutes here :)
    Fortune Crystal: So how does what we discussed this all relate to the idea of "Play as being" for us in RL or SL
    Fortune Crystal: any take home notes?
    Fortune Crystal: Is it ok to change gender
    Paradise Tennant: another way .. sl unleashes creativity is that it is for everyone a fresh start ..unbound by precepts that relate to the rl or rl conditons
    Dakini Rhode: definitely it's ok
    Fortune Crystal: great point Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: lol

    I finally arrives

    Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
    Dakini Rhode: hey steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Fortune
    Moyra Ares: nice tattoos
    Moyra Ares: so colorfull
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi, sorry to be so late, I was the guardian tonight
    Paradise Tennant: yes like the jeans to . use to wear those a lot too
    Fortune Crystal: oh hi
    Dakini Rhode: still timeto claim the session :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: but we've been having power issues
    Fortune Crystal: we have had a few people drop in thats why I gave the card
    Paradise Tennant: kk i did try to claim the session .. but not sure I clicked it righ
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes....smiles
    Paradise Tennant: :)))
    Fortune Crystal: Was there a them for tonight Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: theme, no
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice crowd, sorry I missed the 1st hour
    Dakini Rhode: may i ask, is there normally a theme for the sessions?
    Fortune Crystal: I'm new
    Dakini Rhode: (it's been awhile)
    stevenaia Michinaga: some times are fore specific themes
    stevenaia Michinaga: but not my times, I prefer whatever bubbles to the surface as a theme
    Gary Palmira: I'm all for bubbles
    Paradise Tennant: :))) loads of bubbling going on :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...like bubbles
    Fortune Crystal: Going on what makes SL easier... Its easier to make friends and then drop them if you want. But its easier to try new groups etc
    Paradise Tennant: but alas it is late on the east coast and I have an early morning a dog that would like some outside time .. so I am going to excuse myself and wish everyone a good night and thank you :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: is this your first time hare Fourtune
    stevenaia Michinaga: here
    Fortune Crystal: yes first time
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Paraise
    Fortune Crystal: bye Paradise
    Gary Palmira: Bye Paradise
    stevenaia Michinaga: my apologies fr being so late , glad yyou are still here
    Fortune Crystal: What else is your document/paper exploring Moyra
    Moyra Ares: i realize that i have to stare at his chest all the time
    Moyra Ares: oops wrong channel :)
    Fortune Crystal: haha
    Gary Palmira: I can take off my shirt too ya know lol
    Fortune Crystal: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: Fortune, did I see you at the Kira Cafe earlier today? your profile sounds familiar
    Fortune Crystal: yes, you look familiar Steve. I was at the cafe
    Moyra Ares: just wait till i take of my corset
    Gary Palmira: Can't wait
    Gary Palmira: So is this Cafe Kira a happening place?
    Moyra Ares: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: at times, amny event
    Fortune Crystal: We were listening to a sax player who is pretty good.
    stevenaia Michinaga: many
    stevenaia Michinaga: this group is assocaited with Kira.org
    Gary Palmira: Cool
    Dakini Rhode: folks it's been good chatting, i need to be going now
    Gary Palmira: Yeah me too
    Fortune Crystal: Bye Dakini
    stevenaia Michinaga: great to see you again
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Dakini
    Dakini Rhode: bye and be well :)
    Fortune Crystal: I guess this session has come to an end. Its been great chatting everyone
    Gary Palmira: Bye Folks
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Gary
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'd be happy to stick around if you would like
    Fortune Crystal: I think Moyra is asleep/away
    stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to join us any time Fortune
    Moyra Ares: half away
    Fortune Crystal: I'll see you around Steve, Moyra
    Moyra Ares: cya fortune
    Moyra Ares: its 8:15 all ready
    stevenaia Michinaga: where?
    stevenaia Michinaga: CA?
    stevenaia Michinaga: this was not your 1st time here Moya?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Moyra
    Moyra Ares: yes?
    Moyra Ares: i think its my second time
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Moyra Ares: you?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I've been here for over a year :)
    Moyra Ares: oh...a local :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, sunday evening is my session
    stevenaia Michinaga: my timing was off tonight
    stevenaia Michinaga: with the holiday and the power outages
    Moyra Ares: shit happens :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, was it a productive evening here?
    Moyra Ares: hmmm
    Moyra Ares: there was a lot of conversation...i kept them bussy till they had a conversation rolling on their own
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Moyra Ares: so they werent bored :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes that;s all t takes
    Moyra Ares: can i ask you a question?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes , fell free
    Moyra Ares: why dont you walk naked? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: feel
    Moyra Ares: would it be inapropriate in our society?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a tough question, not sure there is a reason either way, I do like these pants
    Moyra Ares: your tattoo is very effective i have to say
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do ahve a matching tatoo for my bottom
    Moyra Ares: hi rowan
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan
    stevenaia Michinaga: Moyra was jsut asking.... [20:24] Moyra Ares: why dont you walk naked? Moyra Ares: would it be inapropriate in our society?
    Moyra Ares: :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: there are nakid places in SL and some that might not be so appropriate
    stevenaia Michinaga: why don't you?
    Rowan Masala: I do
    Rowan Masala: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do sometimes too
    stevenaia Michinaga: but usually with friends
    Moyra Ares: im asking this because...it isnt much of a difference you having no shirt on and you having no pants on
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is for some
    Moyra Ares: well your aware that you evoke sexual feelings in others with your wonderfull chest tattoo :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...smiles, this tends to be a less than sexual group, but I am , at time highly sexual so feel no need to fully subvert that
    Moyra Ares: :)
    Moyra Ares: ok
    Moyra Ares: i have to go now....some work is calling me
    stevenaia Michinaga: where are you from?
    Moyra Ares: australia
    stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut ordered a CD from a diggeridoo shop there
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy your monday
    Moyra Ares: how wonderfull :) enjoy listening to the lands spirit :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I play too
    Moyra Ares: i dont
    stevenaia Michinaga: summer change makes me want to play more
    Moyra Ares: parties outside?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, for myself
    Moyra Ares: whats happening to you when you play?
    stevenaia Michinaga: happening?
    Moyra Ares: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems to have a strange affect on whoever is around me
    Moyra Ares: i drum
    Moyra Ares: i expereince the same
    stevenaia Michinaga: people whoder how that sound is possinle without soemthing inside the tube
    stevenaia Michinaga: possible
    stevenaia Michinaga: I say..I am inside
    Moyra Ares: :)
    Moyra Ares: where are you from?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Pennsylvania US
    Moyra Ares: do you believe in spirits?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t deny them
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I never met one
    stevenaia Michinaga: you?
    Moyra Ares: you dont meet spirits when you play your didge?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not so much that I I kow I did
    Moyra Ares: spirits are all around me when i drum
    Moyra Ares: they are coming form everywhere
    stevenaia Michinaga: do they help you drum or jsut listen
    Moyra Ares: they help drumming
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice
    Moyra Ares: i see animal spirits sometimes whne i watch didge players
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, some of the sounds are meant to do that
    Moyra Ares: yes they come in through the player
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, one of our regular is also from Ozz, she spoke one night about dreamtime and other thning
    Moyra Ares: im sure you know all about the old ways in the tradition of didgeridoo
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am learning
    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s only been a few years now
    Moyra Ares: ~nods~ the dreaming....its still happening you know?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Moyra Ares: i need to go...time is up :)
    Moyra Ares: have a good day :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice to meet you
    Moyra Ares: dito :)
    Moyra Ares: cya around :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: ok
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