2009.05.24 19:00 - Late Arrival

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

I arrived about an hour into the session due to a number of natural and un-natural RL factors 

Dakini Rhode: hi Moyra, Paradise, & fortune :)
Fortune Crystal: Hi Dakini
Paradise Tennant: hiya dakini .. gary
Moyra Ares: back
Gary Palmira: Hi all
Moyra Ares: sorry had to make a cheese sandwich
Moyra Ares: ok..so the avatar can meditate
Fortune Crystal: yep, and the real person can do so also wherever they are
Dakini Rhode: it seems difficult for me to resume chatting after 90 seconds of silence
Dakini Rhode: i think i start to fall asleep :)
Moyra Ares: practice :)
Paradise Tennant: ;))
Dakini Rhode: probably the hour :)
Paradise Tennant: Yes :))
Moyra Ares: so do we have topics in this hour?
Moyra Ares: or are we coming up with something?
Moyra Ares: im writing on a document about identity development in virtual space
Paradise Tennant: welll is there anything someone would like to chat about
Paradise Tennant: that sounds interesting very interesting
Moyra Ares: yes we all develop identity in RL...and i wonder how much development do we do here
Gary Palmira: it seems to me most people live in fantasy here
Fortune Crystal: I think that one avenue of identity development is the look of the avatar. Afterall, you get to change the avatar and it can be human, animarl, vampire whatever.
Gary Palmira: Sometimes the fantasy is better than real life
Moyra Ares: does it make it less valuable for your identity development in a fantasy environment?
Paradise Tennant: that would be sad
Gary Palmira: that could be a problem after a while
Gary Palmira: Afterall - you can look PERFECT here
Paradise Tennant: well but you are only six inches tall and you do not get to .. to be tangible ..
Gary Palmira: who cares
Paradise Tennant: I have had dinner parties .. with my sl friends and everyone sits around and say how strange it is to not be a cartoon :))
Gary Palmira: The brain cant tell the difference
Moyra Ares: Identity is an umbrella term used throughout the social sciences to describe an individual's comprehension of him or herself as a discrete, separate entity.
Fortune Crystal: I start to find that I admire the amount of creativity put into the unusual looking avatars
Gary Palmira: between reality and fantasy
Paradise Tennant: hmm but the heart does
Gary Palmira: Well as i guy
Paradise Tennant: wb dakini
Dakini Rhode: ty
Gary Palmira: i know my reaction to a perfect female avatar form
Gary Palmira: can be intense
Moyra Ares: :)
Gary Palmira: Biological
Moyra Ares: what birngs me to the next question of gender identity
Gary Palmira: whats your question?
Fortune Crystal: what is the question specifically regarding gender identity, Moyra. Great topic by the way
Moyra Ares: any genderswapper here?
Dakini Rhode: i could :)
Gary Palmira: Nope
Paradise Tennant: nope
Paradise Tennant: was seriously thinking about a dog avatar though :)))
Dakini Rhode: do you know you can just check a box in appearance mode to change the gender of your av?
Gary Palmira: Thats the scary part
Fortune Crystal: Nope. I thought about it for a split second but I really don't know what a guy does/would like to do on second life. I shop for clothes... girly things. Personally it would be hard to switch genders but that's just me. :-)
Dakini Rhode: it's pretty weird
Gary Palmira: Coz people get involved all the time
Moyra Ares: the experiences we do in our avatars are valid i assume...so what if one is changing gender and starts to experience the opposit gender? how does it changes your core identity?
Gary Palmira: I was shocked about the amount of sex that goes on
Fortune Crystal: You know GAry, I see lots of signe=s for sex stuff and I just happen never to get to those places but the signs in stores I see for things you can buy is shocking
Paradise Tennant: I think for some it is a way to explore theimselves on a different level
Gary Palmira: A know someone who believes their life here is better than rl
Gary Palmira: I know*
Fortune Crystal: About the part about switching genders and how it changes your core identiy... I think that it can help a person find what they are lookign for, for example working out a fantasy relationship if the real life person has relationship issues/questions to explore I agree with PAradise
Paradise Tennant: this is rl
Paradise Tennant: though
Fortune Crystal: Good point PAradise
Paradise Tennant: really .. an extension . of rl that is intereactive on a different format but still rl
Dakini Rhode: is anyone here the guardian of this session?
Moyra Ares: nope
Paradise Tennant: i am a newbie guardian
Gary Palmira: i think people identify with concepts about themslves
Paradise Tennant: not quite sure how to claim the session though
Dakini Rhode: is this your session Paradise?
Fortune Crystal: How does switching identies in SL differ froom reading a book whose main character is the opposite gender.
Dakini Rhode: ah!
Gary Palmira: That are usually not true
Dakini Rhode: just touch the thing in the center that says Recording
Paradise Tennant: if there is not another guardian here I suspect it migh tbe
Dakini Rhode: lol
Moyra Ares: fortune as reader your just an observer....in SL you have to make choices and interact with your environment
Gary Palmira: THER ARE REAL PEOPLE HERE
Gary Palmira: There*
Moyra Ares: of course we are all real
Paradise Tennant: and this is a a social intereactive platform . I believe Ihave heard it described
Dakini Rhode: hi Karoz
Fortune Crystal: Yes, but reading is also an extension of real life and people can act in real life based on things they read in a book. aka non fiction biography ets
Moyra Ares: no Artificial intelligence here
Paradise Tennant: which is sorry for the slay ..just way cool
Gary Palmira: Real people having fantasies with other real people
Moyra Ares: what makes it real in some way
Karoz Blogger: Are u meditating?
Dakini Rhode: we're chatting, karoz
Karoz Blogger: Ty.
Paradise Tennant: welcome karoz .. no this is a discussion . sort of informal
Dakini Rhode: poof
Fortune Crystal: This is called "Play at being" I can see if I have a notecard for you if you want Karoz
Paradise Tennant: please join us
Moyra Ares: hi karoz
Dakini Rhode: karoz poofed
Moyra Ares: im slow sometimes ;)
Fortune Crystal: Where were we in out conversation
Dakini Rhode: i rely on my hud to tell me who's around :)
Moyra Ares: that we define personality by our decisions we do
Gary Palmira: I dont beleive that
Moyra Ares: why?
Fortune Crystal: please explain gary
Gary Palmira: It goes way deeper than that
Dakini Rhode: one of the aims of meditation practice is to learn to distinguish who we are not
Moyra Ares: lease explain
Gary Palmira: I believe people develope misconceptions about themselves
Dakini Rhode: so in that sense experimenting with identity in a platform like SL can assist us
Gary Palmira: Thats why so many peiople suffer
Gary Palmira: Those misconceptions start in childhood
Fortune Crystal: I agree Dakini. Here is a question, who says that there has to be a "misconception" and that it has to be "bad"
Fortune Crystal: Why can't we change who we are everyday when we wake up in RL like we can in SL
Gary Palmira: I never said it is bad
Paradise Tennant: we do
Fortune Crystal: Why is being one type of personality good
Gary Palmira: It is all good
Moyra Ares: because of habbits and patterns Fortune
Gary Palmira: But it is not who we really are
Fortune Crystal: I agree with gary
Moyra Ares: breaking habbits and patterns is difficult
Dakini Rhode: seeing is the first step
Dakini Rhode: seeing the habits
Paradise Tennant: every thought you have changes you
Paradise Tennant: every action perception .
Dakini Rhode: bringing awareness to it
Fortune Crystal: But a habit and pattern is only bad if it doesn't make the person feel happy and joyful and happy or whatever the feeling the person is aiming to experience by doing the habbit and pattern
Paradise Tennant: on some level .. maybe not in huge measure but the change is there always
Gary Palmira: I drug addict feels very HAPPY taking drugs
Fortune Crystal: Amd that is fine for the drug addict
Fortune Crystal: It is the on looker who is judging it as bad
Dakini Rhode: once you bring awareness to a habit, you have more choice whether to continue it or not
Gary Palmira: Until it destroys his life
Moyra Ares: saying that somebody is an addict is bad
Gary Palmira: No
Moyra Ares: addiction implies having difficulties
Gary Palmira: My best friend was a drug addict
Paradise Tennant: i am sorry
Dakini Rhode: addiction implies lack of choice
Gary Palmira: it was a great learning exprioence
Fortune Crystal: What if the person wants to experience a life where they are high all the time and die at a young age
Gary Palmira: He gave it up when he got AIDS
Dakini Rhode: that's an interesting thought Fortune
Moyra Ares: when i say somebody is an addict than im not realy sure that this is true...this somebody could easiely break a habbit but i allready imply with this opinion that he cant stop
Fortune Crystal: I think addiction could also imply forgetting how to come out of the habbit. So the drug addict might know they have the choice of not doing drugs but they forget how
Dakini Rhode: there may be more destructive habits than drug addiction
Dakini Rhode: greed, for example
Dakini Rhode: what about all those bankers who destroyed the economy
Gary Palmira: YES
Dakini Rhode: why did nobody say to them - you have a problem
Dakini Rhode: this is somethign you can
Dakini Rhode: can't handle by yourself?
Fortune Crystal: true. but why should the impetuous be on another person to point out a problem of a person like a banker
Dakini Rhode: or the angry warmongers
Moyra Ares: i got once told drug addict..and this person was so convinced that i have a problem with this drug, that i was not able to tell her otherwise
Gary Palmira: Why not
Gary Palmira: Thats real courage to speak up
Moyra Ares: i dont know...it made me feel uncomfortable that somebody is taking away my will
Dakini Rhode: the social and economic consequences of greed have been enormous
Fortune Crystal: I'm just saying maybe the banker thought they were doing a great thing for the world.
Paradise Tennant: lol too many smart people in one room is always dangerous :)))
Gary Palmira: It was a culture of greed
Fortune Crystal: haha
Gary Palmira: That even good people signed onto
Fortune Crystal: I absolutely agree GAry
Paradise Tennant: yes very much so a culture of materialism .. ofhaving
Gary Palmira: Like a pack mentality
Gary Palmira: Thats was individualism is such a sham
Moyra Ares: dont bankers think they play a game? some sort of RL monopoly?
Gary Palmira: We are all affect by each other
Fortune Crystal: But the bankers would not have succeeded if the rest of us weren't there
Dakini Rhode: Gary agreeing that everything is interconnected
Paradise Tennant: well I agree our fundamental addiction is to the delusion of self . of ego :))
Fortune Crystal: So we are just as liable in the greed becasue maybe we let ourselves be duped
Paradise Tennant: one of the hardest ones to become unhooked from :)
Gary Palmira: Yes but they had greater responsibility
Gary Palmira: They failed in their leadership
Fortune Crystal: But we allowed ourselves to be led
Fortune Crystal: I see your point gary I am just showing another way of looking at things
Dakini Rhode: i think it's interesting to look at things from different points of view
Gary Palmira: I know and I appreciate that
Moyra Ares: you may find one in one thouosand people who thinks in a greater scheme or plan and thinks of responsibility to the grerater good
Gary Palmira: Yeah - that's a prolbem
Gary Palmira: As the world becomes smaller
Gary Palmira: the more we affect each other
Fortune Crystal: yes, true
Gary Palmira: We cannot avoid NOT being responsible
Dakini Rhode: hello Dean
Fortune Crystal: Hi Dean
Paradise Tennant: hiya dean
Moyra Ares: hi Dean
DeanWolf Core: Greetings
Moyra Ares: have a aeat dean :)
Gary Palmira: Nice mask dude
Fortune Crystal: I agree GAry. Everyone is responsible. And just like it is easy to be a banker who "Strays" or whatever, it should be easy to be successful at whatever you want to have happen in life. Maybe that is the charm of SL. Easy to switch and create whenever you want
DeanWolf Core: ty, but not now
DeanWolf Core: later
Gary Palmira: Yes - many people here are very creative
Gary Palmira: and resposible about it
Paradise Tennant: it is a wonderful platform for creativity
Fortune Crystal: Does it seem like in RL its harder to be creative? And if so why? I think that it is harder to be creative in RL
Fortune Crystal: how is SL easier
Moyra Ares: RL needs RL currency and resources
Gary Palmira: Because here everything is a cartoon
Dakini Rhode: i think it's much easier to do a small thing in SL and see it magnified immediately
Dakini Rhode: instant gratification at a low cost
Moyra Ares: i would love to build my houses in RL
Dakini Rhode: me too :)
Moyra Ares: but i dont have the place and the prims
Moyra Ares: :))
Dakini Rhode: i'd love to build a retreat center in RL
Dakini Rhode: never even thought of it until SL
Gary Palmira: You did a great job too
Paradise Tennant: :))
Gary Palmira: In RL to be creativie in a large scale requires risk
Gary Palmira: Here this risk is mostly in terms of time
Paradise Tennant: yes good point
Fortune Crystal: SL is also easier cuz you can just fly or teleport and save transportation time
Fortune Crystal: you can be anywhere you want
Paradise Tennant: yes great commutes here :)
Fortune Crystal: So how does what we discussed this all relate to the idea of "Play as being" for us in RL or SL
Fortune Crystal: any take home notes?
Fortune Crystal: Is it ok to change gender
Paradise Tennant: another way .. sl unleashes creativity is that it is for everyone a fresh start ..unbound by precepts that relate to the rl or rl conditons
Dakini Rhode: definitely it's ok
Fortune Crystal: great point Paradise
Paradise Tennant: lol

I finally arrives

Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
Dakini Rhode: hey steve
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Fortune
Moyra Ares: nice tattoos
Moyra Ares: so colorfull
stevenaia Michinaga: hi, sorry to be so late, I was the guardian tonight
Paradise Tennant: yes like the jeans to . use to wear those a lot too
Fortune Crystal: oh hi
Dakini Rhode: still timeto claim the session :)
stevenaia Michinaga: but we've been having power issues
Fortune Crystal: we have had a few people drop in thats why I gave the card
Paradise Tennant: kk i did try to claim the session .. but not sure I clicked it righ
stevenaia Michinaga: yes....smiles
Paradise Tennant: :)))
Fortune Crystal: Was there a them for tonight Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: theme, no
stevenaia Michinaga: nice crowd, sorry I missed the 1st hour
Dakini Rhode: may i ask, is there normally a theme for the sessions?
Fortune Crystal: I'm new
Dakini Rhode: (it's been awhile)
stevenaia Michinaga: some times are fore specific themes
stevenaia Michinaga: but not my times, I prefer whatever bubbles to the surface as a theme
Gary Palmira: I'm all for bubbles
Paradise Tennant: :))) loads of bubbling going on :))
stevenaia Michinaga: ...like bubbles
Fortune Crystal: Going on what makes SL easier... Its easier to make friends and then drop them if you want. But its easier to try new groups etc
Paradise Tennant: but alas it is late on the east coast and I have an early morning a dog that would like some outside time .. so I am going to excuse myself and wish everyone a good night and thank you :))
stevenaia Michinaga: is this your first time hare Fourtune
stevenaia Michinaga: here
Fortune Crystal: yes first time
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Paraise
Fortune Crystal: bye Paradise
Gary Palmira: Bye Paradise
stevenaia Michinaga: my apologies fr being so late , glad yyou are still here
Fortune Crystal: What else is your document/paper exploring Moyra
Moyra Ares: i realize that i have to stare at his chest all the time
Moyra Ares: oops wrong channel :)
Fortune Crystal: haha
Gary Palmira: I can take off my shirt too ya know lol
Fortune Crystal: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: Fortune, did I see you at the Kira Cafe earlier today? your profile sounds familiar
Fortune Crystal: yes, you look familiar Steve. I was at the cafe
Moyra Ares: just wait till i take of my corset
Gary Palmira: Can't wait
Gary Palmira: So is this Cafe Kira a happening place?
Moyra Ares: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: at times, amny event
Fortune Crystal: We were listening to a sax player who is pretty good.
stevenaia Michinaga: many
stevenaia Michinaga: this group is assocaited with Kira.org
Gary Palmira: Cool
Dakini Rhode: folks it's been good chatting, i need to be going now
Gary Palmira: Yeah me too
Fortune Crystal: Bye Dakini
stevenaia Michinaga: great to see you again
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Dakini
Dakini Rhode: bye and be well :)
Fortune Crystal: I guess this session has come to an end. Its been great chatting everyone
Gary Palmira: Bye Folks
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Gary
stevenaia Michinaga: I'd be happy to stick around if you would like
Fortune Crystal: I think Moyra is asleep/away
stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to join us any time Fortune
Moyra Ares: half away
Fortune Crystal: I'll see you around Steve, Moyra
Moyra Ares: cya fortune
Moyra Ares: its 8:15 all ready
stevenaia Michinaga: where?
stevenaia Michinaga: CA?
stevenaia Michinaga: this was not your 1st time here Moya?
stevenaia Michinaga: Moyra
Moyra Ares: yes?
Moyra Ares: i think its my second time
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Moyra Ares: you?
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been here for over a year :)
Moyra Ares: oh...a local :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, sunday evening is my session
stevenaia Michinaga: my timing was off tonight
stevenaia Michinaga: with the holiday and the power outages
Moyra Ares: shit happens :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, was it a productive evening here?
Moyra Ares: hmmm
Moyra Ares: there was a lot of conversation...i kept them bussy till they had a conversation rolling on their own
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Moyra Ares: so they werent bored :)
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes that;s all t takes
Moyra Ares: can i ask you a question?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes , fell free
Moyra Ares: why dont you walk naked? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: feel
Moyra Ares: would it be inapropriate in our society?
stevenaia Michinaga: a tough question, not sure there is a reason either way, I do like these pants
Moyra Ares: your tattoo is very effective i have to say
stevenaia Michinaga: I do ahve a matching tatoo for my bottom
Moyra Ares: hi rowan
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan
stevenaia Michinaga: Moyra was jsut asking.... [20:24] Moyra Ares: why dont you walk naked? Moyra Ares: would it be inapropriate in our society?
Moyra Ares: :))
stevenaia Michinaga: there are nakid places in SL and some that might not be so appropriate
stevenaia Michinaga: why don't you?
Rowan Masala: I do
Rowan Masala: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do sometimes too
stevenaia Michinaga: but usually with friends
Moyra Ares: im asking this because...it isnt much of a difference you having no shirt on and you having no pants on
stevenaia Michinaga: it is for some
Moyra Ares: well your aware that you evoke sexual feelings in others with your wonderfull chest tattoo :)
stevenaia Michinaga: ...smiles, this tends to be a less than sexual group, but I am , at time highly sexual so feel no need to fully subvert that
Moyra Ares: :)
Moyra Ares: ok
Moyra Ares: i have to go now....some work is calling me
stevenaia Michinaga: where are you from?
Moyra Ares: australia
stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut ordered a CD from a diggeridoo shop there
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy your monday
Moyra Ares: how wonderfull :) enjoy listening to the lands spirit :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I play too
Moyra Ares: i dont
stevenaia Michinaga: summer change makes me want to play more
Moyra Ares: parties outside?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, for myself
Moyra Ares: whats happening to you when you play?
stevenaia Michinaga: happening?
Moyra Ares: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: seems to have a strange affect on whoever is around me
Moyra Ares: i drum
Moyra Ares: i expereince the same
stevenaia Michinaga: people whoder how that sound is possinle without soemthing inside the tube
stevenaia Michinaga: possible
stevenaia Michinaga: I say..I am inside
Moyra Ares: :)
Moyra Ares: where are you from?
stevenaia Michinaga: Pennsylvania US
Moyra Ares: do you believe in spirits?
stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t deny them
stevenaia Michinaga: but I never met one
stevenaia Michinaga: you?
Moyra Ares: you dont meet spirits when you play your didge?
stevenaia Michinaga: not so much that I I kow I did
Moyra Ares: spirits are all around me when i drum
Moyra Ares: they are coming form everywhere
stevenaia Michinaga: do they help you drum or jsut listen
Moyra Ares: they help drumming
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
Moyra Ares: i see animal spirits sometimes whne i watch didge players
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, some of the sounds are meant to do that
Moyra Ares: yes they come in through the player
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, one of our regular is also from Ozz, she spoke one night about dreamtime and other thning
Moyra Ares: im sure you know all about the old ways in the tradition of didgeridoo
stevenaia Michinaga: I am learning
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s only been a few years now
Moyra Ares: ~nods~ the dreaming....its still happening you know?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Moyra Ares: i need to go...time is up :)
Moyra Ares: have a good day :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to meet you
Moyra Ares: dito :)
Moyra Ares: cya around :)
stevenaia Michinaga: ok