2011.11.05 19:00 - Living in Trance States

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Hamlet
FcSeeker Resident: he Pema Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Fc
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Rhi, Pema
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi steve
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Tess!
FcSeeker Resident: hi Tess
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Hamlet
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: hi everybody!
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eos
stevenaia Michinaga: how was the concert last week? (I think)
FcSeeker Resident: hi Eos
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hey, Tess, what are you doing way up there?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Nice leap
Tess Aristocrat: hello ㋡
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Tess Eos
Tess Aristocrat: just terrachuting about
FcSeeker Resident: hi Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: :
stevenaia Michinaga: 0
Hamlet Graves: hi Pema, Rhiannon, fcseeker, tess, stevenaia, eos
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eliza!
stevenaia Michinaga: :
stevenaia Michinaga: 0
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Rhi, fc, tess, stevenaia, pema, hamlet
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Hamlet
Eos Amaterasu: Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :))
Hamlet Graves: Hi Eliza :)
Pema Pera: does anybody have a topic they'd like to talk about, or question/comment/suggestion?
Tess Aristocrat: I hope everyone has had a fine day today, or is about to...:)
Eliza Madrigal: a fine day indeed, thank you Tess
Pema Pera: yes, wonderful day -- two more hours to go here, Tess :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, my day has been pretty good
Eos Amaterasu: vivid day
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
Hamlet Graves: my night is fine so far
Rhiannon Dragoone: My discussion went well this morning. Did some target practice--point and shoot with ddry caps
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Aphrodite!
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Aph
Pema Pera: hi Aph!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite :)
Tess Aristocrat: Yes, I am in the process of Fall/Autumn cleaning..
Eos Amaterasu: aaaph
Aphrodite Macbain: Great to see you all
Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm in the process of avoiding Fall/Autumn cleaning
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Aph!
stevenaia Michinaga: I was cutting down damaged trees in my yard from the storm :(
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡ it's been a bit like decluttering my life
Eos Amaterasu: storm of life
stevenaia Michinaga: fall cleanup cam suddenly
Tess Aristocrat: oh :0
Tess Aristocrat: yes..
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, if you don't do it, God will do it for you. lol
Eos Amaterasu: decluttering my mind
Aphrodite Macbain: I spend mdore time with fall clean up than spring. It's all those leaves!
stevenaia Michinaga: much more to clean up, makes clearing your mind seem effortless
Pema Pera: :-)
FcSeeker Resident: <3
stevenaia Michinaga: less heavy lifting
Eos Amaterasu: the leaves keep coming back
FcSeeker Resident: I also have much 'cleaned' up my mind...
Tess Aristocrat: Does anyone find that they tend to hang on to unnecessary things?
Aphrodite Macbain: But I love raking the bright yellow onez!
Pema Pera: it was nice to see a rose blooming out along the street, with patches of snow still melting beneath it
Aphrodite Macbain: ones
stevenaia Michinaga: and the mind fills right back up
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
Rhiannon Dragoone: Eos, you just don't us ethe right defolient. (Just kidding)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, out roses are still growing, may ahve one more bloop this week
stevenaia Michinaga: *our
stevenaia Michinaga: *bloom
FcSeeker Resident: meaning that I have thought for whole my life that I couldn't ever travel to USA, which now seems to be something almost obvious for me to do
Aphrodite Macbain: Roses are both beautiful and tough
Rhiannon Dragoone: steve, is it spring for you?
Eliza Madrigal: a significant trip/leap then for you FcS :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Roses last into December in Vancouver.
stevenaia Michinaga: no, had 1st snow storm last week, all melted now
Aphrodite Macbain: woody stems
Rhiannon Dragoone: Really, steve?
FcSeeker Resident: I would yes say that it is a leap :)<3<3<3
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: 8" devistating
stevenaia Michinaga: many people still w/o power
Rhiannon Dragoone: We just had some patches of snow today.
Tess Aristocrat: I have clothing mmm...
Aphrodite Macbain shivers
Tess Aristocrat: loll\
stevenaia Michinaga: nice when you can still be warm and meditate in the dark
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: cats help
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, yes, having clthing helps. ::looks down at herself dolefully
Aphrodite Macbain: they sit on your lap?
stevenaia Michinaga: warm shoes, Rhi?
Aphrodite Macbain hands Rhi a blanket
Rhiannon Dragoone: steve, totally
Eos Amaterasu: offers rhi a cat or two
Tess Aristocrat: Rhia..hahaha..that was a sentence I started then thought I'd erased!
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
Aphrodite Macbain offers her 19 pound cat smudge
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Cal
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal
Pema Pera: hi Cal !
Eliza Madrigal: goodness... full group tonight must be cold outside :)
Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY Cal
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, lol. Th disadvantage of text.
Tess Aristocrat: Hello Calvino
stevenaia Michinaga: big cat
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Cal
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Cal!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- devastating when he jumps on your stomach
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, try having a 200 lob dog climb on your lap when she's afraid of lightening and thunder
Tess Aristocrat: Does anyone ever start to say/type something and then, change their mind...
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
Eos Amaterasu: many times
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, no, you're the only one
stevenaia Michinaga: any thoughts to focus on for the first bell?
Tess Aristocrat giggles
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- the sentences often come out strangely
Eliza Madrigal: backspace magic
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: warm cats?
--BELL--
Tess Aristocrat: Well, and thought I'd backspaced it away..*blushing..
Eos Amaterasu: bell in clear sky
Rhiannon Dragoone: It's ok, Tess. It's an obvious comment to make.
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
Rhiannon Dragoone: My paratar has been in pants and a shirt all day; and socks, speaking of warm feet
Eos Amaterasu: bell cleared the skies for a moment
stevenaia Michinaga: and the cat from my lap
Aphrodite Macbain: Steve- I have noticed a desire in me to dress in colours that match the season and I wonder if anyone does this as well. I wonder if it's some deeseated adaptation so we can fit in with our environment.\
Aphrodite Macbain: I want to dress in green and yellow during the summer, and blacks and greys in the winter
Tess Aristocrat: Yes, you could have something there.. ㋡
Rhiannon Dragoone: It's a natural impulse, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Often unconsciously trying to "match" my environment
Aphrodite Macbain: How do you know Rhi!!!?
Tess Aristocrat: Or dressing to match mood
stevenaia Michinaga: seasons to affect people differently, do you "go with the season or counter it with something else
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, ok, it's a common impulse, Aph.
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, you mean because...
stevenaia Michinaga: flowers in the winter
Tess Aristocrat: coloring my mood with clothing
Aphrodite Macbain: I go with the season I think. When I hike in the mountains I want to wear the colours of the mountain
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it Rhi?
Aphrodite Macbain: Wondering if it's some atavistic urge
Calvino Rabeni: This must be an instinct ... there are ads for pumpkin and chocolate at the health spa, and it's not about eating .. it's a skin treatment
Calvino Rabeni: seasonal
Aphrodite Macbain: treating your skin with chocolate and pumpkin?
stevenaia Michinaga: I know many depressed people in late winter, seasonal .. disorder, seems light helps, not sure gray clothing would
Calvino Rabeni: I'd guess atavistic might be an appropriate word, but, maybe it would be nice to be open minded about having such sense relationships with the world?
Rhiannon Dragoone blushes to think of the times she was smeared all over with chocolate
Aphrodite Macbain giggles
Aphrodite Macbain: you mean a deliberate effort to match the environment rather than an unconscious one Cal?
Rhiannon Dragoone: I think it's a celebration of the seasons, in part
Calvino Rabeni: Then of course one notices, most high priced shampoos are advertised with lots of edible substances ... they seem almost like food
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- fall especially for me
Calvino Rabeni: I often wondered if they could be eaten in case of a famine
Rhiannon Dragoone: Ads use either food or sex, or power, ego.
Calvino Rabeni: Agree. a seasonal celebration
Aphrodite Macbain: I think thay have artiificial smells- doubt if they taste good
Tess Aristocrat: yes, color choice by mood or season..whichever inspires
Aphrodite Macbain: True- I wear red when I want to cheer myself up
Calvino Rabeni: I like the cleaning product ads that appeal to a ritual sense of cleanliness ... a spiritual ablution instinct ... rather than appealing to solving an unsavory problem (the mess)
Tess Aristocrat: I seem to trend different colors..
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- and they have stuff like green tea in them which always sounds healthy
Tess Aristocrat: i went through a black trend for so long..my sis called me 'Johnny Black'
Tess Aristocrat: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: Pema - how are you. It's good to see you here
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi druth!
Calvino Rabeni: I'd buy dish soap with green tea, if it had a slight aroma
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :))
druth Vlodovic: hey guys
Pema Pera: yes, good to be back here again :)
Pema Pera: hi Druth!
Tess Aristocrat: Druth <3
Aphrodite Macbain: hey druth - how's Ottawa?
druth Vlodovic: still there
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: are you in New York or Japan Pema?
Pema Pera: one [19:14] stevenaia Michinaga: any thoughts to focus on for the first bell?
Pema Pera: (Princeton, Aph :-)
Rhiannon Dragoone: I gtg. It's time to make dinner for Rosalyn, and she's had a hard week; was in the hospital on Thursday
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: hope she's OK now
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure I know enough about princeton to do a bell for it, but ok
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Rhi, best wishes for Rosalyn
Rhiannon Dragoone: ty!
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
druth Vlodovic: good luck to your friend rhi
--BELL--
Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks, druth
Tess Aristocrat: Rhia ㋡
Rhiannon Dragoone: /smiles at Tess
Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
Aphrodite Macbain waits for the poof
Tess Aristocrat: Druth, Do you ever find you wear different colors based on your mood or because of the change of seasons? ㋡
druth Vlodovic: certainly
druth Vlodovic: smetimes I'll wear clothes that have the mood I want, other times I indulge :)
druth Vlodovic: why?
Tess Aristocrat: we were just discussing that before you arrived
stevenaia Michinaga: we match Druth
stevenaia Michinaga: sort of
druth Vlodovic: it is important to think of winter clothing as "cozy" not "heavy"
druth Vlodovic: why, do some of you not dress to mood?
stevenaia Michinaga: I feel, you can dress for winter, but you can only undress so much in the summer, no matter how hot it is
Tess Aristocrat: true enough :P
druth Vlodovic: lol, a crying shame that is
Aphrodite Macbain: dont go Fc!
FcSeeker Resident: I dont go, but my eyes tells that I must put them onto the pillow
Eliza Madrigal waves to FcS :) Night
Aphrodite Macbain: awwww. thanks for the red and the hearts Fc
Tess Aristocrat: night ㋡
FcSeeker Resident: so I'll stay there for quite a while still :)
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Fc
FcSeeker Resident: takes a humble bow
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
Aphrodite Macbain: sleep tight
Eos Amaterasu: ~~ Fc
druth Vlodovic: I'm afraid I keep trying to tie this into what pema said about "living in trance states" last week
druth Vlodovic: and the ways in which we seek to manipulate ourselves
Aphrodite Macbain: please say more. Do we live in trance states?
Aphrodite Macbain: and why?
Aphrodite Macbain: I find I live in a semi-aware state a lot of times
Tess Aristocrat: Mostly, that is when we're on 'autopilot'
Pema Pera: daily life tends to be like a trance, yes, like autopilot
Pema Pera: druth is refering to my description of meditation as getting out of trance states
Aphrodite Macbain: autopilot=trance?
Pema Pera: and drpping all that can give us the opening to see it
druth Vlodovic: the idea, if I have it correct, is that we live in an unreal state in which we have little awareness of ourselves and our lives, and meditation is a method used to attempt to reclaim awareness from habit
Tess Aristocrat: doing repetitious things..
Pema Pera: yes, druth
Eos Amaterasu: starting with little gaps between entrancements
Pema Pera: like having the radio on all day and suddenly switching it off, and marveling in the silence
Aphrodite Macbain: being totally in the moment, present and aware?
Pema Pera: ideally, yes :-)
Eos Amaterasu: that's an idea
Eos Amaterasu: yes
Eos Amaterasu: letting go of entrancement
Eos Amaterasu: with not diretion on
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder if our brains would allow us to do that for long. It might be vry demanding on it's receptors
Eos Amaterasu: direction
druth Vlodovic: by changiung our surrounding, dressing in bright colours for instance, we seek to manipulate a trained "state" we find desireable
Tess Aristocrat: You actually get better at it, the more you do it..
Aphrodite Macbain: ah yes, being conscious of all our decisions
Tess Aristocrat: practice..
Eos Amaterasu: or becoming aware of moments of autopilot
Aphrodite Macbain: It mght mean doing thngs more slowly
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure we'd want to be conscious of "all" of what we do
Eos Amaterasu: longer than moments
druth Vlodovic: we've adapted to become what we are
Aphrodite Macbain: our brains are designed to allow us to be on autopilot while we multi task
Pema Pera: perhaps, during the next 90 seconds break, we can just watch our thoughts, coming and going. Each new thought is trying to catch/seduce us into following its "train" of more thoughts, as a trance-train -- if we gently smile, bow and thank the thought while adding "not today, dear", then what happens?
Aphrodite Macbain: Like walking along the street
druth Vlodovic: awareness seems a particular state with specific purposes, memory and learning seem to be all it can do that other states can't
Calvino Rabeni: One view is, what's usually happening in the mind is like the disk cleaner and defrag and virus scan on the computer .. just housekeeping ... that default process is probably needed for health too, and it gets suspended when people pay attention (to just about anything)
Aphrodite Macbain: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: like a dream
stevenaia Michinaga: dream watching
Aphrodite Macbain: mental housekeeping
Aphrodite Macbain looks at her dusty brain and shakes her head
Eos Amaterasu: gently smile, bow and thank the thought
Tess Aristocrat: Also, our path of thoughts, the certain direction that they *do go..that is another thing altogether ㋡ another trained thing.
--BELL--
Pema Pera: rolling brains gather no dust
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Eos Amaterasu smells the food from downstairs, and bows
Eos Amaterasu hears the chattering people, and bows
druth Vlodovic: so I put my awareness in charge, and didn't use it lol
Tess Aristocrat: wonders
Pema Pera: while doing this little exploration, I felt more and more thoughts approaching me from all directions; and suddenly the image was to let them all turn into flowers, like in those Buddha pictures
druth Vlodovic: sorry, I keep hitting the wrong buttons
Eliza Madrigal: during the pause, for me, many ideas and thoughts to attend to this or that... but permission to settle, to enjoy those thoughts but let them be
Aphrodite Macbain: how did that help Pema? They became even more real then.
Pema Pera: they lost their flying-arrow momentum, and settled like snow flakes :)
Aphrodite Macbain hears her meowing cat and bows
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Aphrodite Macbain: so their energy was dissipated?
Pema Pera: nothing wrong with thoughts, as long as they don't disturb and penetrate
Eos Amaterasu: cat hears her master, and meows
Tess Aristocrat: my thought was this..imagine how you would feel, here with people, sharing thoughts, with no history of ever having been rebuked or embarrassed or anything at all ㋡
Eliza Madrigal: nice, Tess :)
Pema Pera: oh, that's very nice, Tess!
Pema Pera: snap :)
Eos Amaterasu: suddenly naked
Eliza Madrigal: pop
Calvino Rabeni: if thoughts penetrate, does that mean they come from outside, and if so of what/
Aphrodite Macbain: and feeling safe, with no shame
Eos Amaterasu: they move you (your mind) cal
Tess Aristocrat: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: they come from inside but are still very sharp
druth Vlodovic: if we are our awareness then all thoughts come from "outside"
Pema Pera: clinging to thoughts is as reactive as shielding from thoughts -- letting them be is at first not so easy, but far more comfortable
Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether having a terrible memory helps this softening process
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: there is an answer to that question, but I forgot
Aphrodite Macbain: synapses spark and then stop
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Aphrodite Macbain: never to return
Aphrodite Macbain: handy thing-forgetting
Calvino Rabeni: and remembering differently
Aphrodite Macbain: YES!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain wonders what whispering a smile sounds like
Eliza Madrigal: koan
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: aph already forgot
Aphrodite Macbain: huh?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eos Amaterasu: what is the sound of one smile whispering?
Aphrodite Macbain: very pleasant
Calvino Rabeni: one lip smiling?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: one whisker smiling
Tess Aristocrat: lolll..that's sneering! :D
Aphrodite Macbain: a happy lisp
Eos Amaterasu: ((lisp))
Aphrodite Macbain: a whisp of a lisp
Pema Pera: (( + smile smile))
Tess Aristocrat: sneeeerrrrrs like a trip to the dentist
Tess Aristocrat: I will o' the whisp o' the lisp!
Aphrodite Macbain wonders what a hugged lisp looks like
Tess Aristocrat: whew! I can't even spell that much less say it :D
Pema Pera: {( 0}
Pema Pera: {( )} I meant
Aphrodite Macbain dies from laughing....
Pema Pera: {hugged lisp}
Aphrodite Macbain: hem hem
Pema Pera: (eval (hug lisp))
--BELL--
Tess Aristocrat: frrr frrr frrr's :P
Aphrodite Macbain: too much 4 me. I'm going to have dinner and hug my cat
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all
Calvino Rabeni waves silently
Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
Pema Pera: time for me 2 go 2
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pema
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Aphrodite. Actually it is time for me to sleep as well. Nice seeing everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go too
Tess Aristocrat: B well
stevenaia Michinaga: nigth all
Pema Pera: thank you all, for fun and profit!
Eos Amaterasu: time to nil as well
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well Night Pema, Eos, Stevie
Eos Amaterasu: ''night all
Eliza Madrigal: pleasant dreams to all
Tess Aristocrat: night ㋡
Pema Pera: bfn
Calvino Rabeni: OOOOOooooo.........
Tess Aristocrat: yippieeee
druth Vlodovic: I go grab a drink and everyone escapes
Tess Aristocrat: Druth.. hehehe
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves all round :)
Tess Aristocrat: Hello Para ㋡
Calvino Rabeni: It may have been your hypnotic force and magnetism that kept them here
Paradise Tennant: hiya druth tess cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello
Tess Aristocrat: nods..you were the glue
druth Vlodovic: :) hi paradise
Tess Aristocrat: Well, I have a serious game of mahjong to unwind with awaiting ;)
druth Vlodovic: have fun tess, don't let them skin you :)
Tess Aristocrat: see you all soon ㋡
Paradise Tennant: good nite tess good luck
druth Vlodovic: ok, just because it's funny
druth Vlodovic: last monday I was thinking about Pema's thing about trance states, and realized that my hands were peeling and sectioning an orange
druth Vlodovic: si I sat and watched them for a bit, not "interfering" lol
druth Vlodovic: it seems to me that we run in a bunch of trance states, but have a brain function we call "awareness" that shines a light around
druth Vlodovic: just to see what is happening
Calvino Rabeni: it must have some kind of side effects, if you will, a function or purpose
druth Vlodovic: memory and learning as far as I can firgure
Calvino Rabeni: I thought ... to decide where to go next
druth Vlodovic: if you do something without awareness generally you can't recall what happened when you were "out"
Calvino Rabeni: as memory and learning seem to be mostly unconscious?
Paradise Tennant: smiles lots of information is stored in your muscles not your brain .. it is your fingers for example that really know how to knit
druth Vlodovic: I am fairly familiar with states of fatigue, and functioning within them
Calvino Rabeni: the fingers perhaps know what to do because the information is in the needles and yarn
Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
Calvino Rabeni: fatigue and pain ..very persistent at times, a useful trance is to function without awareness of them
druth Vlodovic: well the fatigue is to change your awareness of what you do, and change how you react
Calvino Rabeni: unless to the extent they are self-caused, then maybe awareness can have a health promoting side effect
Paradise Tennant: thinks maybe we are in layers of trances :)
druth Vlodovic: fatigue is used in many traditions (or so I am told) as a learning tool
Calvino Rabeni: layers and layers
Calvino Rabeni: true, druth
druth Vlodovic: I think more in terms of chunks than layers
Calvino Rabeni: like the medical profession
Calvino Rabeni: it's part of the training of doctors
druth Vlodovic: one chunk is monitoring my heartbeat and such, another studying my senses for signs of danger, another running memory on autopilot, another driving my car
Calvino Rabeni: modules
druth Vlodovic: my awareness? sleepiung peacefully :)
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: but to define these modules is to create false edges, they are quite integrated
Calvino Rabeni: quite, in a dynamic way ... they sometimes compete for attention or other "resources" that are limited
Calvino Rabeni: or one could say, perhaps attention is a process whose job is to adjudicate demands of those modules for limited functional resources
Paradise Tennant: hmmm think it is a very dynamic force attention capalbe of doing much more that we realize ..
Paradise Tennant: *capable
druth Vlodovic: not really, I am dieting and the nurse often talks about the body making decisions based on availible info, and how to manipulate that info
Paradise Tennant: just the power of our concentrated attention ..
Calvino Rabeni: my awareness tells me I can't be here typing on SL chat and also eat a fish for dinner
Calvino Rabeni: so it made chat less fascinating
druth Vlodovic: then tell your awareness about napkins and plate space on the desk :)
Calvino Rabeni: thanks ... interesting conver
Paradise Tennant: smiles nite nite cal ..enjoy your dinner :)
Calvino Rabeni: on
Calvino Rabeni: satio
druth Vlodovic: bye cal
Calvino Rabeni: :) bye
druth Vlodovic: have fun
druth Vlodovic: what you said about the muscles having memory is interesting
Paradise Tennant: yes it is isn't it ..like we are a collection of knowledge centeres
Paradise Tennant: centres
druth Vlodovic: when I was doing the orange the exact movements were, ofcourse, different specifically than anything they'd done, though in general they'd done it many times before
druth Vlodovic: so my fingers were adapting to the situation
Paradise Tennant: you felt distinct different detached from what your hands were doing ?
druth Vlodovic: but I may have been fooling myself, but it seemed that all my awareness was doing was observing
druth Vlodovic: yes, I noticed them halfway through
druth Vlodovic: then just watched
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: a nice state to be in
druth Vlodovic: restful :)
Paradise Tennant: yes like you have surrendered
druth Vlodovic: have you ever done that? done something habitual without engagement, or "woken" to find that you had finished something you'd think you'd need awareness for?
Paradise Tennant: lol yes many times
druth Vlodovic: tell me one
Paradise Tennant: mostly happen when I am trying to solve a problem of some kind
Paradise Tennant: so brain is heavily engaged
Paradise Tennant: elsewhere
druth Vlodovic: yes
Paradise Tennant: will have finished a dinner and not noticed..
Paradise Tennant: done physical work and be surprised it is finished
druth Vlodovic: ah, all that "wasted" food lol
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
Paradise Tennant: wasted food .. not really even tasting it
druth Vlodovic: scariest is driving and thinking"I must have driven through that town"
Paradise Tennant: just absorbed elsewhere but that is different from what you described
Paradise Tennant: you were simply fully present but observing
druth Vlodovic: not so much, you were absorbed in observing your thoughts, I was absorbed in viewing
Paradise Tennant: yes nods very scary have ended up home wiith no idea what route I took
Paradise Tennant: hiya bertrum ..we are talking of being so fully absorbed we are not present in the normal world but still apparent up and about and say doing dishes :)
druth Vlodovic: I suspect that the only function that is potentially exclusive to awareness is memory
druth Vlodovic: hi bertram
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hmm think life itself is ..integral to awareness sort of think sometimes we are just here to admire the beauty :) or be moved by its music :)
druth Vlodovic: our thoughts probably come from "other" parts of the mind, and are simply directed, or suggested into paths, by awareness
druth Vlodovic: if the awareness is simply a supervisor of the mind, then it will be happy when it thinks the mind is functioning well
Paradise Tennant: yes we are like llitle holograms .. empty space with just enough matter to form a drop the size of a tear but teaming with .. activity .. electrical currents .convey so much information .. we are little computers .. with different drives perhaps
druth Vlodovic: if things are before you which the mind thinks is "beautiful" the the awareness can enjoy and reinforce this idea
Paradise Tennant: and who knows whose' s fingeron the off button :)
Paradise Tennant: yes
druth Vlodovic: well, ours of course :)
druth Vlodovic: but who trained us?
Paradise Tennant: smiles I wonder
Paradise Tennant: maybe we are just avis in a really big computer game much llike our little cartoons here :)
druth Vlodovic: I suspect my awareness is my av, and my operating system is my mind
druth Vlodovic: am "I" my awareness?
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes your awareness is your real self :)
Paradise Tennant: what constitutes you
druth Vlodovic: lol, a philospopher might say "no" because my awarenbess often goes away, menaing that I would lack continuity
druth Vlodovic: perhaps I live parallell to life, and just check in from time to time
Paradise Tennant: smiles
druth Vlodovic: or is my "real self" unconsciouos to me, and my awareness my way of appreciating it?
Paradise Tennant: there is that school of physics which suggests there are multiverses so maybe we are just a cross section a part of a bigger .. being
druth Vlodovic: manby people like to say that we are how god knows himself
druth Vlodovic: in bits and pices
Paradise Tennant: smiles a big smile yes how god knows himself or herself
druth Vlodovic: are we god's awareness?
Paradise Tennant: smiles
druth Vlodovic: lol, and yet our awareness is such a small and lmited part of ourselves (I can demonstare this btw)
druth Vlodovic: most of our potential is in the forces we direct, rather than control
Paradise Tennant: when do you feel the most together with yourself and when do you feel the most detached .. in bits ?
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: if I was completely detached I'd never notice
druth Vlodovic: I suppose I feel most detached when I am trying to be, when I have strong emotions to avoid
druth Vlodovic: I feel most "integrated" when I'm having fun with friends, when I'm most engaged
druth Vlodovic: what about you?
Paradise Tennant: sometimes when I am really tired ..I have had a sensation of being separate from my body ..
Paradise Tennant: being together with good friends family .. wrapped up in that cosiness .. always makes me feel grounded .. more solid somehow .. like .warmth of it .. makes you gell more
Paradise Tennant: those would be my detached and together .. running can make you feel really whole and sometimes when you solve a problem .. or get a great idea that surge of creativity ..lights you up and you feel complete
druth Vlodovic: do you solve the problem because you free up your awareness, or supress it for a bit so your mind can work?
Paradise Tennant: sigh never really think it is me .. mostly think they are floating in the air around me .. somehow show up in my brain
Paradise Tennant: that is always how it feels to me ..it just arrives .. and I never have the sense I generated it .. i
druth Vlodovic: if "you" arer all of you, aware and unaware, then such reveleations could be seen as you connecting to yourself
Paradise Tennant: lol then it is a self I really do not know
druth Vlodovic: "I'll have to sleep on that" :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
druth Vlodovic: shades of carl jung
druth Vlodovic: when I am with my friends and have to stop and think I always feel a little disconnected from them, for a bit
druth Vlodovic: like my mind integrated with them, but now has to go away fro a bit and be added back later
Paradise Tennant: nods
Paradise Tennant: really amazing how our minds interlink
druth Vlodovic: maybe "defining" is the procvess of awareness
Paradise Tennant: how we can finish each other's sentences .. how ideas leap and grow one to the next
druth Vlodovic: so talking to another makes our awarenesses closer to each other than to ourselves
Paradise Tennant: makes me think we are not an i but rather a we ..
Paradise Tennant: and that I maybe be very right in assuming the answers or ideas come from somewhere other than my brain ..
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: if you deinfe yourself as awareness, and awareness has more in common with the awareness of others than with the deeper parts of your mind...
Paradise Tennant: like little gifts from the fairies
druth Vlodovic: lol, perhaps you are your fairies
Paradise Tennant: smiles I do like the fey in life :)
druth Vlodovic: dancing deep inside you, calling to be heard, if only you can play with them
druth Vlodovic: I've often thought of "minds" being integrated sets of thought processes
druth Vlodovic: so a group of people talking about a particular subject might create a "mind" that is partially each one of them, but does not have the whole of any of them inside it
druth Vlodovic: it has it's way of communicating, and feeling, and it's culture
druth Vlodovic: but only part of you is part of it
druth Vlodovic: you are vastly complex
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes .. like a important part of your choices in life is the brain trust you attach to :)
druth Vlodovic: so when a thought comes "from left field" maybe it is a part of you that doesn't get heard often
Paradise Tennant: or a part of me that dances with the fairies in my sleep :)
druth Vlodovic: when you first conspire to breathe deeply it hurts
druth Vlodovic: you feel your lungs, and suddenly know that they are larger than you thought
druth Vlodovic: you might even feel pain in the form of "stitches"
druth Vlodovic: but in time it is natural
Paradise Tennant: remember feeling as a kid that my body seemed heavy .. too heavy that it should be lighter
Paradise Tennant: odd feeling ..
druth Vlodovic: :)
druth Vlodovic: a strange time, being a child
Paradise Tennant: this dealing with the physical world
Paradise Tennant: liked being high up .. so would wedge my feet against one side of a doorway and shimmy up to I was at the top .. feed on one side of it back end on the other and my parents would just kind of look at me .. and shake their heads and then duck under
druth Vlodovic: lol
druth Vlodovic: wise parents
Paradise Tennant: it is an odd time being a child .. like not all of us is quite here
druth Vlodovic: more like we have not yet convinced ourselves that all of us is here
druth Vlodovic: maybe that is why i get mad when I see people limiting the potential of SL
druth Vlodovic: for me it was a return to strangeness
Paradise Tennant: what is the potential of sl
druth Vlodovic: a time when I didn't "know"
druth Vlodovic: lol, I was going to make that last line longer
druth Vlodovic: I wasn't sure how I would feel next, or what I would do
druth Vlodovic: what child knows these things?
druth Vlodovic: illusions we impose on ourselves because we are supposed to know "why did you do that?"
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: have you ever done, said or felt something and then thought ???
Paradise Tennant: daily :)
druth Vlodovic: :)
druth Vlodovic: "welcome to me, the undiscovered country"
Paradise Tennant: wow that is a wonderful quote
druth Vlodovic: is awareness a good thing, do you think?
Paradise Tennant: smiles ..somehow I think as we cannot seem to really avoid it ..it was meant to be .. so yes a good thing !
druth Vlodovic: :)
druth Vlodovic: but perhaps control isn't
druth Vlodovic: lol, I've run out of answers
Paradise Tennant: hmm surrender .. is powerful but tricky .. l
Paradise Tennant: smiles nods so many questions
druth Vlodovic: is it better to be what you are, or to become what you want?
Paradise Tennant: I think we are what we want .. underneath ..everyone is perfection .. the perfect buddha mind .. there are no distinctions .. just a cloudy vision .. to clear to get there
druth Vlodovic: so why don't I feel like what i want to be?
Paradise Tennant: what do you want to be ?
druth Vlodovic: something that would feel like it wants to be itself
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: just let go then
Paradise Tennant: you cannot really be anything less than pure perfection .. because that is what we are all part of :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
druth Vlodovic: lol, I was reading a "how to" book on meditation, and in the intro I thought for a second that I was re-reading "the magic if time"
Paradise Tennant: such an easy thing to say .. but so hard to do
druth Vlodovic: a lot of things seem to be converging
druth Vlodovic: hard to trust, especially myself
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: one thing I find that helps is not to think so much :)
Paradise Tennant: maybe that is what those trance states do .. still us into being quiet enough to percieve what is real
druth Vlodovic: occupy our minds
druth Vlodovic: or remove our awareness so it can listen to our minds
druth Vlodovic: thinking is how i cope, and deal
druth Vlodovic: what has been your methods?
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. well i meditate .. focus on one image - kind of one pointed meditation ..
Paradise Tennant: stills the thoughts ..
Paradise Tennant: I run .. find I can meditate really well just listening to my breath and foot falls
Paradise Tennant: find when you quiet your thoughts .. there is a feeling of spaciousness ..
Paradise Tennant: that sort of give a better fit to being
Paradise Tennant: *gives
Paradise Tennant: and to being with others
Bertrum Resident: When you meditate in general, you attempt to empty your thought too...
Bertrum Resident: empty your mind of the noise.
Paradise Tennant: hmm I find that harder .. I just try to see one thing .and slow them down ..they still flit about like moths but ..sleepy moths
Bertrum Resident: So you meditate focusing on a thought?
Paradise Tennant: usually an image .. a candle flame
Paradise Tennant: a flower .. the top of my dog's head :) something I like to look at .. a picture I like
Bertrum Resident: That is the starting point.
Paradise Tennant: yes and the ending point :) just to see
Bertrum Resident: In the middle of the meditation are you consciously engaged with that image?
Paradise Tennant: i am still .. in the presence of it
Paradise Tennant: think if you read the 99 day logs .. you will get a feel for how everone is a little different in their practise it is interesting to read
Paradise Tennant: smiles I should say thank you and good nite the dog is groaning .. and huffing he has been wanting to go out for about 30 minutes ..we are late on his schedule :)
druth Vlodovic: lol, poor dog, has more sense than me
Paradise Tennant: smiles namaste :)
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: I'm behind schedule more than that, but how much I won't say
Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
Bertrum Resident: Namaste
druth Vlodovic: goodnight paradise
druth Vlodovic: 'night bertrum, I hope to see you again
Bertrum Resident: "Night druth.
Paradise Tennant: smiles :) good nite bertrum good nite druth :) dream well