The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.  We began by talking about the weather -- winter moving in, and all that.  Soon the discussion evolved to include "multiple experiential identities," fully-embodied neural networks, and the far-reaching implications of "web," "cyber cloud," cosmic fabric, and global Sangha.  All in all, a stimulating hour.

Arisia Vita: welcome Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Arisia and Korel.
Korel Laloix: Heya all.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: At work so in and out.
Korel Laloix: More out today I think though.
Bruce Mowbray: sure. np, Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: What's happening with you, Ari?
Arisia Vita: all quiet here, how about you?
Bruce Mowbray: I'm sort of dragging today. Getting tired of continuous rain. . .
Arisia Vita: me too, and I had a cold to boot
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.. sry to hear that.
Arisia Vita: it's pretty much gone now, along with the rain, so I'm looking forward to sunny days again
Korel Laloix: Cool and mostly clear here.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. I think we're going to get our first shot of winter tonight -- (in Ohio) - they're talking about snow.
Korel Laloix: Ick.
Arisia Vita: we got some flurries in TN
Korel Laloix: I need to move back to Florida.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, ick... and I have to drive 50 miles to see a doctor in Columbus tomorrow. . .
Arisia Vita: do drive carefully
Bruce Mowbray: I saw that sweep of the cold wave coming through Tennessee, Ari. . . and that's what will hit us tonight and tomorrow.
Bruce Mowbray: It's like a big claw...
Bruce Mowbray: Have you seen the regional radar?
Arisia Vita: yep, sorry to send it your way
Bruce Mowbray: he he.
Arisia Vita: yes I have seen it
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, it's winter. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and I haven't even fired up the potbelly stove a single time.
Arisia Vita: global warming?
Bruce Mowbray: probably.
Bruce Mowbray: I got a message from my sister in California this afternoon---
Korel Laloix: Grandma likes it cold for some unholy reason, so she probably won't put on the heat for a while.
Arisia Vita: good
Bruce Mowbray: she says that her allergies have never lasted this far into the fall.
Bruce Mowbray: and the same report comes from Europe, Kori.
Arisia Vita: oh dear
Korel Laloix: But I have an electric radiator in my room all the time.
Arisia Vita: you are lucky Korel
Bruce Mowbray: that's good, Kori - - I prefer to stay warm, too.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, 0!
Arisia Vita: welcome O
oO0Oo Resident: Hi everybody!!! :D :D :D
Korel Laloix: The worst though is bad summer when it is way hot out, she likes to have the house like a fridge....
Korel Laloix: Heya
Bruce Mowbray: How is your ice sculpture coming along, 0?
Korel Laloix: Have to wear a coat in the house in the summer... silly
Arisia Vita: costly too
Korel Laloix: And not good for the environment.
Bruce Mowbray: We're just talking about the weather so far, 0.
oO0Oo Resident: ty Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Anything more to your liking to discuss, anyone?
Korel Laloix: Regrets.
Korel Laloix: I think a lot of people more regret things they did not do....
Korel Laloix: But what about the things you did?
Korel Laloix: Self forgiveness maybe?
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers. . . I have a few regrets in both areas, Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: but not a lot.
Bruce Mowbray: When one stacks 69 years on top of one another, it's hard not to have a few regrets.
Korel Laloix: I just wonder if my number of regrets is normal for my age.
Korel Laloix: Not that I have counted them...
oO0Oo Resident: Not sure there can be a norm in this way
Bruce Mowbray: Is there a particular regret that you have that you'd care to share?
Bruce Mowbray: For example,
Bruce Mowbray: I regret not having taken French in high school and college.
Korel Laloix: Just letting myself being manipulated.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: I know that one also.
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec.....

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: Being angry at your self for letting bad people do things to you.... you get hit twice that way.
Bruce Mowbray: good point, Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: I had to break away for a sec to stir my crock pot dinner. . .
Bruce Mowbray: I do NOT regret having made it about three hours ago.
Bruce Mowbray: yum yum
Korel Laloix: Not sure why, but almost everything is better in a slow cooker.
Bruce Mowbray: If you figure out a way not to be angry at yourself from time to time, I wish you'd let me know.
Bruce Mowbray: Forgiving myself seems harder than forgiving others.
Korel Laloix: OH I will.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: I know what you mean.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the kitchen has smelled yummy all afternoon.
Korel Laloix: And getting angry at myself for letting myself get angry at someone.
Bruce Mowbray: an endless loop?
Korel Laloix: And not a good one.
Korel Laloix: But not endless though.
Arisia Vita: how to break that vicious cycle?
Korel Laloix: But very long run though.
Bruce Mowbray: My rational mind knows better. . .
Arisia Vita: think of something pleasant?
Bruce Mowbray: It gauges behaviors by their effectiveness in producing change (desired change).
Bruce Mowbray: but my irrational mind(s) go a more neurotic route...
Bruce Mowbray: (the loops)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Ari. . .
oO0Oo Resident: one thing.. is to see the loops for what they are.. loops
Bruce Mowbray: A quick thing I try to remember (something pleasant) is the Four Immeasurables. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Loving-Kindness, Compassion, Equanimity, and Joy...
Arisia Vita: two minds, rather reminds me of the two headed snake trying to decide on a direction to travel
Bruce Mowbray: So easy for me to apply those to others. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but trying to remember to apply them to myself is more difficult,,,,, don't know why that is.
Korel Laloix: Sometimes it is rather annoying being human.
Bruce Mowbray: at least two heads to my snake, Ari.
Arisia Vita: how do you decide then?
Bruce Mowbray: yes, annoying. . . I perceive animals (like the 12-year-old dog companion lying at my feet right now) as being more balanced about things.
Bruce Mowbray: How do I decide among my several heads?
Arisia Vita: why are they more balanced?
Arisia Vita: yes
Bruce Mowbray: well, all of my heads gather around a round table...
Korel Laloix: I get my heart and head going in different directions a lot of the time.... then you add your libido.... and everything can fall apart.
Bruce Mowbray: and each of them gets the spotlight for a few minutes.
Arisia Vita: welcome Be
Bruce Mowbray: and then we all try to accommodate each others' needs...
Korel Laloix: Hyea Be.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, BE!
Be Ewing: All - Hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good to see you again, Be.
Arisia Vita: Bruce is talking about how he makes decisions
Bruce Mowbray: The important thing is not to leave any of my heads out of the conversation.
oO0Oo Resident: Hi be
Bruce Mowbray: just because that one might not be agreeable to the others.
Arisia Vita: can you give a simple example?
Be Ewing: One of your heads?
Bruce Mowbray: how my various selves (heads) make decisions.
Be Ewing: ah
Bruce Mowbray: and it is not always the case that the 'snake' of many heads has to make a decision to go in just ONE direction.
Be Ewing: interesting
Arisia Vita: how does he go in more than one direction?
Bruce Mowbray: I have been known to go in several directions at once.
Be Ewing: ;)
Arisia Vita: but do snakes?
Arisia Vita: :)
Bruce Mowbray: one part of me gets what it wants by compromising with the other parts - who also get part of what they want.
Arisia Vita: I picture the snake splitting down the middle :)
Be Ewing: if they have two heads perhaps?
Be Ewing: I pictured a snake with a head at both ends
Bruce Mowbray: yes, it sometimes feels like the snake is splitting. . . but if we really do accept each other (the various heads-selves), then splitting is not that difficult - -
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh. A snake with heads at both ends. . I love that!
Bruce Mowbray: How about a snake with MANY ends?
Be Ewing: might be similar to a cat with nine tails
Bruce Mowbray: yep.
Bruce Mowbray: You know, mythology is full of such images.
Arisia Vita: the octopus has eight legs (or arms) but thankfully only one head
Bruce Mowbray: Medusa, for example.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey Cal!
Arisia Vita: welcome Cal
oO0Oo Resident: Hi cal
Bruce Mowbray: We've been talking about "being of more than one mind" about things.
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Ari, Bruce, o0,
Bruce Mowbray: and how to accommodate the various "selves" that we are.
Be Ewing: Cal - hi
Calvino Rabeni: H Be
Calvino Rabeni: That's a greeeat topic
Be Ewing: hmmm
Calvino Rabeni: (we think)
Korel Laloix: I really want to make a comment about men and having two brains, but I will resist.
Be Ewing: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: We had just brought in a few images from mythology - - - that might be metaphors for the human condition, regarding "several selves."
Arisia Vita: aw Kori...
Be Ewing: actually they have a 3rd believe it or not :)
Bruce Mowbray: Go ahead, Kori. I'd like to hear about it.
Be Ewing: brb
Bruce Mowbray: ok, Be.
Korel Laloix: I am having a good I hate men day, so it is more meaningful today... grins

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Dinosaurs (the big ones) also had two brains.
Bruce Mowbray: sry.
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps that "second brain" that Kori refers to (in men) is one of the "selves" that I had in mind earlier.
Bruce Mowbray: It's definitely the case with me. . . that second brain.
Arisia Vita: or a male/female brain?
Bruce Mowbray: and he's also invited to the roundtable, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: and his needs are also accommodated.
Bruce Mowbray: both sexes, I think, Ari.
Bruce Mowbray: but I can only speak for one.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- I just caught your meaning.
Bruce Mowbray: that we are both sexes in each person?
Bruce Mowbray: The more the merrier?
Calvino Rabeni: We have a big nexus in the gut area that is like a cat's size of brain ... so it communicates with the main brain through signals like gut feelings, plus taking care of many things independently
Korel Laloix: I fully admit that very large parts of my life have been mostly ruled by my libido.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Cal, and this is a wonderful discovery of neuro-science....
Bruce Mowbray: that all of our body - in effect - is connected through neural networks.
Zon Kwan: hi
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zon!
Bruce Mowbray: so the brain actually extends far beyond the skull.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zon!
Zon Kwan: or mind
Bruce Mowbray: Hey Zon, we've been chatting about the experience of having "several minds" --
Bruce Mowbray: several different ways of being one person.
Be Ewing: ab
oO0Oo Resident: wb be
Bruce Mowbray: and Cal has just reminded us that the neural system extends to the gut . . and surrounds the major organs.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes several ways ... one of the expressions is about "carving nature at the joints"
Bruce Mowbray: How is that, Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: It means, there are different ways to think of those as separate parts
Arisia Vita: welcome San 
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, San.
Zon Kwan: a kind of schizo mind ?
Calvino Rabeni: so like some of the "voices" or selves would be based on organic structure, brain "design"
Bruce Mowbray listens for more...
Calvino Rabeni: and others, are mental constructs, things we invent
Calvino Rabeni: like sorting conventions in our thinking of what a self ought to be
Arisia Vita: welcome Sariah
Calvino Rabeni: so the gut brain might have its own "way"
Bruce Mowbray: sort of a "schizo" mind. . . but not in a pejorative sense.
Arisia Vita: Sariah is a dear friend of mine
Calvino Rabeni: or different layers of the physical functions of "self"
Arisia Vita: pls welcome her
Sariah Meredith: thank you Arisia
Calvino Rabeni: on the other hand something like an "inner critic" would be a mental construct kind of thing
oO0Oo Resident: Welcome Sariah :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Sariah.
Santoshima Resident: hello Sariah, and everyone
Be Ewing: ah
Calvino Rabeni: Or my "evil twin" or alter ego, etc.
Be Ewing: gut brain makes sense
Calvino Rabeni: Hi everyone
Be Ewing: but 'third brain' I was meaning earlier is heart
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that "inner critic" is one of the "selves" I was referring to earlier -- but that one also deserves a say...
Calvino Rabeni: So the thing is, some of them are structured physiologically or maybe even socially .. some are creations of convention and the imagination
Be Ewing: this past year I read somewhere that they have found "brain" tissue in the heart
Be Ewing: it was in some medical journal research somewhere
Korel Laloix: Back in a bit i Hope
oO0Oo Resident: The brain may have been crying there once ;)
Be Ewing: so true
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Be, neuroscience is showing that the brain extends throughout the body - - with interesting results (!)
Calvino Rabeni: yes, so those organ functions, especially the heart, are part of intelligence, especially linked in with emotional knowing
Calvino Rabeni: and the intelligence is also located outside the body, especially in other people
Be Ewing: so when someone tells you to speak from your heart
Bruce Mowbray: Fascinating idea, Samuo, that the "brain" cries at the level of the heart. . . (Bruce ponders....)
Be Ewing: it really is quite different then speaking from your headmind
Be Ewing: I know when I speak from my heart I don't edit anywhere near as much
Bruce Mowbray is fascinated by such imagery.
Calvino Rabeni: One saying I've heard is "body symptoms are a message that the unconscious mind writes to the conscious mind" ...
Be Ewing: true
Calvino Rabeni: that's kind of true but it's more than that
Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
Calvino Rabeni: it's like different intelligences leaving messages in different places, and the messages could be things like a feeling, a sensation, or even a steady long term condition
Calvino Rabeni: given that over time "mind" effects shape the body structurally
Be Ewing: and the way we perceive messages is somewhat different for each of us
Calvino Rabeni: and through habits
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Arch.
Bruce Mowbray: It seems that there are several different messages that our bodies are sending. . .
Calvino Rabeni: yes Be, we have a lot in common but the collection or mosaic is unique

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I loved your term (Sunday evening's session here), Cal --- "holistic" -- We are holistic beings.
Bruce Mowbray: containing many parts.
Bruce Mowbray: sry, again (for talking during the drop).
Be Ewing: with some parts outside of our bodies
Calvino Rabeni: and since we're organic / holistic beings the interpretation of any messages brings in the whole body/mind/self and world context around the meaning of the message, giving it rich background meaning
Be Ewing: for example, personal energy fields
Bruce Mowbray: Clearly, the self-other dichotomy is being smudged by modern science.
Be Ewing: and our avatars
Calvino Rabeni: One notion is that "emotions are contagious" but I think it really means how we're linked in an emotional network
Bruce Mowbray: fields - networks - neural systems - "the web" -
Bruce Mowbray: so, perhaps what we think of as "my brain" is a global phenomenon.
Calvino Rabeni: that means if I clean up my house and make it beautiful, it will have an indirect effect radiating through my social network to others
Calvino Rabeni: to second life and first
Be Ewing: Bruce -- I agree with that
Bruce Mowbray: oh, I love this.
Be Ewing: the global network brain literally
Be Ewing: Cal - true
Bruce Mowbray: Now cleaning the house has ethical implications -- and I do feel that it DOES!
Calvino Rabeni: Now that we're starting to get used to "cloud computing" ... it
Calvino Rabeni: will affect metaphors of intelligence
Be Ewing: similar to Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Be Ewing: essentially all things are related and affect each other
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph.
Calvino Rabeni: though in the 90's one company said "The Computer IS the Network"
Calvino Rabeni: they were ahead of their time, but it's becoming that way
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Aph
Bruce Mowbray ponders "Matrix."
Be Ewing: mesh
Aphrodite Macbain: hello all. sounds like an interesting discussion
Be Ewing: underlying mesh of the Universe
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Aph, we've covered a lot of ground in the past hour.
Be Ewing: the fabric of the Universe that underlies all
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the mesh made of?
Be Ewing: good question
Calvino Rabeni: Personally I think it a bit sad or something, we let technology tell us to see more aspects of human nature, rather than trusting our sense and experience
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Has technology not always informed us?
Calvino Rabeni: Of course we're influenced by it
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps technology is simply an extension of ourselves
Bruce Mowbray: The printing press, for example, defined the Reformation.
Be Ewing: best I can figure out perhaps it is some combination of dark matter/dark energy -- anyhow the stuff still not accounted for in scientific equations of the Universe
Be Ewing: that which people know is there
Aphrodite Macbain: oh - I thought mesh would be the underlying structure
Be Ewing: but can't yet technically define and/or measure scientifically
Be Ewing: Aphro - yes I believe it is
Aphrodite Macbain: so it is a concept?
Be Ewing: for example, dark matter is in each of us
Zon Kwan: technique helps us understands from outside what happens inside
Be Ewing: only a very tiny bit
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Aph, "mesh" can be underlying -- but also, several meshes. . . and several foundations.... (The fabrics of the cosmos).
Be Ewing: but it's there
Calvino Rabeni: Another computer metaphor is "virtual machines" ... but normal matter and energy (not to mention mind) is organized in many layers of interacting functionality and causation ...
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, different metaphors Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: So, Zon, what we perceive is a mirror?
Zon Kwan: nods
Bruce Mowbray: The "outside" is a mirror?
Calvino Rabeni: So I think that's more like how it works, than looking to find a fundamental basic mechanism
Be Ewing: good question about mirror
Bruce Mowbray ponders the possibility of letting the "outside" be a Sangha.
Be Ewing: What is a Sangha?
Bruce Mowbray: The world as Sangha.
Aphrodite Macbain: what about the inside?
Bruce Mowbray: A Sangha is a supporting community - - -
Be Ewing: ah
Bruce Mowbray: usually thought of as monks...
Bruce Mowbray: (as in Buddhism).
Bruce Mowbray: but can be extended far beyond the monastery
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Dash, good to see you
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Dash!
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Dash
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all
Santoshima Resident: hello Dash
Bruce Mowbray considers how difficult it becomes to summarize a session like this for new-comers.
Aphrodite Macbain loves a southern drawl
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
oO0Oo Resident: In two minds Bruce?
Dash Earthboy: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: we are simply talking about the make up of the cosmos...
Calvino Rabeni: I think, if one has an "understanding" with a friend, that there is some importance or value to spirit / growth and a helping relationship, then that's a cell of a sangha
Bruce Mowbray: Well, at least two minds, 0.
Be Ewing: more like a beehive mind?
Santoshima Resident: yes, Cal
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the concept of a sangha cell
oO0Oo Resident: high five Be
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, friends are definitely my Sangha, Cal.
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Bruce Mowbray: as well as those friends I've not yet met.
Be Ewing: well -- you may have already met them :)
Calvino Rabeni: That makes good sense Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: How do you distinguish between sangha friends and regular friends?
Bruce Mowbray: Sangha becomes infinite - - but does that dilute its effectiveness?
Aphrodite Macbain: that's what I was wondering
Santoshima Resident: Sangha is support, community
Santoshima Resident: support
Santoshima Resident: implies effectiveness
Santoshima Resident: otherwise
Be Ewing: but if all support
Aphrodite Macbain: support community
Santoshima Resident: wouldn't be called as such
Be Ewing: it implies all are friends
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: much to ponder.
Calvino Rabeni: That's a good question too ... what are the things that would affect "effectiveness" or make it function in different ways
Archmage Atlantis: A question with no answer is only useful in giving rise to questions
Calvino Rabeni: or have different limitations and strengths
Calvino Rabeni: (or maybe just a different "character")
Aphrodite Macbain: specifically about one's spiritual growth I think
Calvino Rabeni: All the universe seems to be a net of question/answers, a fundamentally conversational structure
Bruce Mowbray: BTW, those of you who would like to continue and to extend this discussion of "Sangha" are welcome to join us in Ways of Knowing, Thursday at 2 p.m. at the Kira Cafe.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: (just thought I'd put in that plug!)
Archmage Atlantis: Bruce, if that were followed by "Ways of Not Knowing", I might
Be Ewing: Cal - excellent observation -- well put
Be Ewing: a conversational structure
Be Ewing: since we each are like radio stations for sending and receiving messages
Be Ewing: this is an excellent analogy
Be Ewing: I like it a lot :)
Bruce Mowbray: Please join us with "ways of not knowing" - - an excellent counterpoint, perhaps.
Aphrodite Macbain: and sometimes those conversations are internal
Be Ewing: true
Bruce Mowbray: Internal conversations. . . implying several "selves"?
Aphrodite Macbain: If we have conversations with ourselves, would we be able to offer differing perspectives?
Be Ewing: not necessarily
Be Ewing: more like oneself having many conversations internally
Be Ewing: at least for me
Aphrodite Macbain: and would we listen to ourselves?
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that the only way we can have several perspectives is to allow those internal conversations, Aph.
oO0Oo Resident: lol
Santoshima Resident: we contain multitudes
Be Ewing: and then for me others enter
Bruce Mowbray: Otherwise, one of our selves will dominate our perception. . . and there will only be one voice permitted.
Be Ewing: but I can differentiate which is I and which is another
Aphrodite Macbain: that's what I would be afraid of
Aphrodite Macbain: thesis/antithesis=synthesis
Archmage Atlantis: Aph, if we try to reconcile that which will not reconcile, many selves are required........in my father's house there are many mansions, if it were not so, I would not have told you
Bruce Mowbray: Listening to our several selves is imperative. . . (that's the roundtable conversation I referred to earlier).
Aphrodite Macbain: would that happen within our own subjective self?
Bruce Mowbray: Which one, Aph?
Bruce Mowbray: (that was a rhetorical question, sry).
Calvino Rabeni: Given what is known about the meshing together of thought and emotion, and the way it is carried in different parts internally, and by others in the "field" around ... we have a rich multiplicity of "self" to listen to and relate with
Aphrodite Macbain: yeah but I'm thinking about it:-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Unfortunately I usually agree with myself
Aphrodite Macbain: so where's the learning?
Be Ewing: and just reflecting for example from this chat via my avatar into my body self
Bruce Mowbray: "Meshing" and "field" and "cloud" are really big concepts.
Calvino Rabeni: (waits for Aph to say "no, I don't") :)
Be Ewing: my avatar is one with me
Archmage Atlantis: the learning is in the discussion
Aphrodite Macbain: I usually do Cal
Aphrodite Macbain: hence the problem
Be Ewing: it is integrated with my personal energy field
Bruce Mowbray loves Arch's point -- the learning and the discussion are one.
Be Ewing: though in form of pixels among you
Calvino Rabeni: I read an interesting formulation yesterday, that we have a self of experience, and a self of memory, and the memory-self usually dominates the experience-self
Be Ewing: because of emotional recording?
Calvino Rabeni: so maybe life's a lot better than we remember/think
Calvino Rabeni: maybe Be
Aphrodite Macbain: our memory is held in different parts of the brain
Bruce Mowbray: The memory-self dominates the experience self -- SO TRUE with moi --- But I am learning through Buddhist methods to honor the experience more.
Calvino Rabeni: partly about making emotional interpretations and then going by them
Calvino Rabeni: even if they aren't the full story
Be Ewing: true
Aphrodite Macbain: If you were to describe yourself, what would you say?
Bruce Mowbray: It's as if I were moving through reality with a big bumper in front of me -- or a big filter....
Be Ewing: it is often best to go pack and get entire picture for me
Be Ewing: and view in its entirety
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
Be Ewing: not just he emotional memory
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Korel.
Aphrodite Macbain waves at Korel
Be Ewing: to process the experience
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
Calvino Rabeni: and Aph, the description is often dominated by the memory-self because it latches onto conceptual formulations that are easier to organize mentally, compared to the traces of feelings that are part of experience
Calvino Rabeni: so there's a more limited "menu" of what to remember / report, when language is the medium
Calvino Rabeni: though we also remember feelings
Calvino Rabeni: especially about places
Aphrodite Macbain: feelings can't be organized and put into memory?
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought it was feelings that makes us remember and experience
Calvino Rabeni: I think they can, yes, a lot more than done habitually
Bruce Mowbray feels that language is part of the "filter" or "bumper confronting reality" problem (or situation, not 'problem')
Be Ewing: well -- non-verbal is often difficult to put into words
Calvino Rabeni: true
Be Ewing: and words are a very difficult medium for me
Be Ewing: because I do not think in words
Be Ewing: nor see in words
Aphrodite Macbain: I was talking to someone yesterday about my life in my twenties. At the end of it, the person said he now knew more about my friends and relationships than he did about who I was.
Be Ewing: nor feel in words
Calvino Rabeni: though that asks the question, of whether we are aware of the ongong nonverbal experience and can remember that directly
Bruce Mowbray: Do you "see" in images, Be?
Be Ewing: I know first
Be Ewing: then I see
Be Ewing: then I feel
Be Ewing: then I hear
Be Ewing: know is like a combination of the other 3
Bruce Mowbray: You "know" first. . . fascinating.
Be Ewing: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: pre-judging?
Be Ewing: no judgment
Be Ewing: just intuitively knowing
Be Ewing: I am intuitive off the charts
Archmage Atlantis: I understand Be, though for me the sequence is rearranged
Bruce Mowbray listens even more intently.
Be Ewing: I use all my senses -- physical ones and extrasensory ones
Archmage Atlantis: I feel
Archmage Atlantis: then I analyze
Aphrodite Macbain: you use your memory and experience
Archmage Atlantis: then I observe
Be Ewing: so you are feeler audient
Be Ewing: that is seeing
Be Ewing: and you then combine them to know something?
Archmage Atlantis: not yet

--BELL--

Be Ewing: this all ties into communication styles and preferences too -- as well as learning
Be Ewing: and personality types
Aphrodite Macbain: shhh
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Be
Archmage Atlantis: Sorry Aph
Archmage Atlantis: not a shh moment
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Bruce Mowbray ponders hierarchies of value.
Aphrodite Macbain wonders what exactly Bruce is pondering
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Killian.
Archmage Atlantis: Reorganizing thoughts, brb
Bruce Mowbray: One person values his viewpoint's having expression, Aph. . . perhaps more than the 90-second drop. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but also, let us remember where we are....
Aphrodite Macbain hands Arch a filing cabinet
oO0Oo Resident: hello killian
Be Ewing: also -- sometimes people forget
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a tough one for sure. Who's toes should one step on?
Be Ewing: in other words when aha moment comes
Bruce Mowbray: Alas, the smells of my crock pot dinner are overwhelming my value system altogether.
Archmage Atlantis: Aph, in the group, in rl today, there were those who saw things differently from me.....
Bruce Mowbray: It's time for me to go.
Be Ewing: it might be gone by end of 90 seconds
Aphrodite Macbain: *step If toes have to be stepped on.
Bruce Mowbray: Amazing discussion today folks. Thanks to everyone!
Santoshima Resident: bye Bruce ~
Be Ewing: Bruce and All -- Take care and miles of smiles :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce. Your sessions are always stimulating.
Archmage Atlantis: farewell, Bruce
oO0Oo Resident: Thanks Bruce.. Take care :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I need to go too.
Santoshima Resident: so long, be
Santoshima Resident: bye aph
Aphrodite Macbain tiptoes out
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! :-)
Archmage Atlantis: A"H
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Aph
Calvino Rabeni waves
Archmage Atlantis: imho, one screams their birth into this existence......I prefer to scream on the way out, also
Calvino Rabeni: Do not go gentle into that good night ...
Calvino Rabeni: good though it is
Arisia Vita: There is probably more meaning in the sighing of the wind than in the screeching of a peacock.
Santoshima Resident: same wind
Calvino Rabeni: heh
Archmage Atlantis: :) . close enuf Cal
Calvino Rabeni: mmhmm
oO0Oo Resident wonders if it is possible to invite Sariah to share anything that might want to be shared
Archmage Atlantis: When I sit on my ex-partner's lanai and listen to the sounds of the water and the chimes
Sariah Meredith: I am fine.....I am enjoying listening
Archmage Atlantis: and watch the sunset
Calvino Rabeni: I think, Arch, I may have an opportunity to do that in about 5 months :)
oO0Oo Resident: nods ty Sariah..
Archmage Atlantis: I am not bothered by the reality that the wind and chimes are replaying on CD and the sunset is real
Archmage Atlantis: For me, that moment transcends
Archmage Atlantis: tho I cannot be sure I spelled transeds correctly
Santoshima Resident: :) no matter
Santoshima Resident: understood
Calvino Rabeni: There's a difference between Naming and Spelling, no?
Arisia Vita: I must take a short break my friends, it was great being with you all, hope to see you again soon...
Calvino Rabeni: good to see you Arisia, take care
oO0Oo Resident: wonderful to be with you Arisia
Arisia Vita: be well and happy till then
Dash Earthboy: bye Ari
Santoshima Resident: bye Arisia, peace to you

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, in some mathematical constructs, naming and spelling are differentiated
Zon Kwan: waves
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Zon
oO0Oo Resident: Thanks everyone.. :) Lively discussion.
Santoshima Resident: be well, sam
Dash Earthboy: bye Sam
Archmage Atlantis: TY O for reengagement
oO0Oo Resident: Nice to meet you Sariah! Hope to see you again. :)
oO0Oo Resident: (((Dash)))
Archmage Atlantis: How are things now, Dash
Archmage Atlantis: ?
Calvino Rabeni: That's interesting Arch, about spelling
Archmage Atlantis: Long time no see
Archmage Atlantis: I do not believe in private conversations...btw
Archmage Atlantis: My Dad
Archmage Atlantis: he taught me to be "honest"
Dash Earthboy: Arch, things are getting better for me :)
Archmage Atlantis: to me, as a person, to be honest was to be accurate
Calvino Rabeni: There's a learning in that
Archmage Atlantis: Good Dash
Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking about the more ancient meaning of the word "to spell"
Archmage Atlantis: Korel still comes to this space....that gives me hope
Calvino Rabeni: the meaning went from, being about magic and presence, to being about accuracy
Calvino Rabeni: Casting a spell
Calvino Rabeni: versus correctly arranging the letters in a conventional sequence
Calvino Rabeni: the second kind of accuracy is a mark of education and of respect
Calvino Rabeni: the first kind of accuracy, of the spirit
Archmage Atlantis: Cal, really, is it not obvious I chose the wizard as my name....and as my form, tho not here
Calvino Rabeni: Sees a lot behind the name
Archmage Atlantis: A wizard spins the creation with words
Calvino Rabeni: I think and speaks between the lines
Calvino Rabeni: only the last bit .. involves the words
Calvino Rabeni: or so it seems to me
Archmage Atlantis: At the Thanksgiving dinner, that I and my first partner of 19 years, and my second partner of 16 years, cooked
Archmage Atlantis: in our kitchens
Archmage Atlantis: I said to the Creator
Archmage Atlantis: what I was sent here to say
Archmage Atlantis: Creator of all things
Archmage Atlantis: We are here
Korel Laloix: Take care all.. off to RL.
Archmage Atlantis: You created us
Dash Earthboy: bye Korel
Archmage Atlantis: We inform you
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Korel
Archmage Atlantis: We are one together
Dash Earthboy: what can one do except be one?
Dash Earthboy: talking with two
Dash Earthboy: touching three

--BELL--

Dash Earthboy: growing to five billion
Dash Earthboy: each of us is one
Archmage Atlantis: yes, Dah
Dash Earthboy: all of us are one
Dash Earthboy: Carole King's song "One"
Archmage Atlantis: Not just humans
Archmage Atlantis: but all life
Archmage Atlantis: spread among the stars
Archmage Atlantis: Namaste and Blessings
Dash Earthboy: pax Arch
Dash Earthboy: guess this is a good time to move along...gotta deal with more Microsoft shenanigans
Calvino Rabeni: argg
Dash Earthboy: pax et bonum y'all
Calvino Rabeni: Same here, I'll venture out into the darking afternoon
Calvino Rabeni: Pax Dash, Sariah