2011.11.19 19:00 - Letting Go Has Many Layers

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: hi Sam!
oO0Oo Resident: Hi! Is this seat taken? :)
Pema Pera: I don't think so :)
Pema Pera: hi Eliza!
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eliza :)
oO0Oo Resident: )))))))))))))))
Eliza Madrigal: So appreciate the email you sent to the group this morning, Pema
Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Eliza!
Pema Pera: It feels as if I was walking with many others, unknowingly at the time, judging from the reactions :-)
Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
Eliza Madrigal: yes you were/are!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Paradise :)
oO0Oo Resident: looking forward to reading that email.. it sounds nice.
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves all round hiya pema eliza sam :) nice to see you all:)
Pema Pera: I've been thinking lately about something that I have noticed from time to time. Briefly: "letting go has many layers"
Pema Pera: dropping or just letting go seems easy
Pema Pera: but whener I let go of anything, quickly afterwards I see that I can let go more
Pema Pera: and more
Pema Pera: and more
Pema Pera: does that ring a bell?
Pema Pera: hi Eos!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eos :)
Pema Pera: hi Tess!
Paradise Tennant: hiya eos .
oO0Oo Resident: Tess :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Sam Pema, eliza, Tess
Tess Aristocrat: hi
Paradise Tennant: pema so many layers to letting go...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tess :)
Eos Amaterasu: Paradise
Eliza Madrigal: indeed each time something falls away it tends reveal more hanging on
Paradise Tennant: hiya tess :)
oO0Oo Resident: ☆*¨¨*:•.•:*¨* hallo hello hi holla *¨¨*:•.•:*¨*☆
Pema Pera: can you say more, Paradise?
oO0Oo Resident: [19:05] Pema Pera: I've been thinking lately about something that I have noticed from time to time. Briefly: "letting go has many layers" [19:05] Pema Pera: dropping or just letting go seems easy [19:05] Pema Pera: but whener I let go of anything, quickly afterwards I see that I can let go more [19:05] Pema Pera: and more [19:05] Pema Pera: and more [19:05] Pema Pera: does that ring a bell?
Eos Amaterasu: thnx Pema & O
oO0Oo Resident: there's letting go... and then there's releasing?
Tess Aristocrat: what do you mean by letting it go? does this mean you never think of it again?
Paradise Tennant: pondering ..
Pema Pera: there are many ways of letting go, Tess
Pema Pera: and yes, releasing is often one aspect of it
Tess Aristocrat: what is your definition?
Pema Pera: like, you find yourself in a conversation with someone, and suddenly you notice a certain tenseness
Tess Aristocrat: nods
Pema Pera: in your throat or shoulders or whatever
Pema Pera: as soon as you notice it, it's easy to let go
Pema Pera: at least to some extent
Pema Pera: and quite likely the conversation gets better :-)
Pema Pera: just one small example
Pema Pera: less doing, more letting happen
Pema Pera: hi Santo!
Paradise Tennant: been reading a very good book called wonders of the natural mind by tenzin wangyel he deals with our layers of perception ..the differences in presence .. differences in awareness in a very readable manner :) mostly it seems the struggle is letting go of ourselves :) we are so attached to "me"
Tess Aristocrat: Santoshima ㋡
Pema Pera: yes, great book, Paradise!
Paradise Tennant: hiya san :) gtsy
Eos Amaterasu: Hi San
Pema Pera: great title too :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Santoshima :)
Santoshima Resident: hi everyone
oO0Oo Resident: Hi santoshima
oO0Oo Resident: I wonder if there are analogous frameworks within Chritianity for letting go..
Pema Pera: oh sure: not my will but the will of my Father
Tess Aristocrat: nods..
Tess Aristocrat: 'Be still, and know that I am God'
Eliza Madrigal: 'trust in the lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your paths'
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: there though, there's a picture of larger hands one lets go, to
oO0Oo Resident: *be still and know*
oO0Oo Resident: tysm for those
Pema Pera: perhaps there is always something to let go to/in . . .
Paradise Tennant: being still .. silent .. quiet .. all seems very helpful letting go .. requires maybe some relaxing into :)
Paradise Tennant: trust
Paradise Tennant: faith
Pema Pera: yes
Paradise Tennant: even courage :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: in the little example I gave, relaxing throat or shoulders, there are many other layers, further steps: you can try to look at the conversation from the others point of view, say, rather than elaborating on your own -- by letting go of an emphasis on what you want to say
Pema Pera: or even from beyond any point of view, by letting go of all points of view
Pema Pera: leading to a very rich appreciation of what is happening
Paradise Tennant: smiles we are always so sure we are right :) when quite likely there is no right .. at best it is all maybes :)
Pema Pera: as for the many layers: it seems that the more we let go the more layers of possible lettting go we see
Pema Pera: at first we see perhaps just one tiny thing we can let go of
Pema Pera: but then it becomes like a knitted sweater
Pema Pera: unraveling the more we pull the thread
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: the more we let go the more we can see what we keep hanging on to
oO0Oo Resident: stakes increase?
oO0Oo Resident: subtle but powerful?
Eos Amaterasu: on a clean surface the specks stand out
oO0Oo Resident looks in the mirror and sees the Himalayas
Pema Pera: objects seen in the mirror are closer than you may expect
Pema Pera: (trying to remember the standard warning)
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: (thank you all, must go, good night)
Pema Pera: night, Eos!
Eliza Madrigal: ah, nice to see you Eos, night
Paradise Tennant: thank you eos :) good nite sweet dreams
Eliza Madrigal: I often feel letting go to be more willing' to let go... setting something 'out' for life to make what it will.. maybe for the birds to feed on, maybe to become something else
Eliza Madrigal: just not holding on willingly
Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
Pema Pera: yes, even letting go can be too much of an act
oO0Oo Resident: Night Eos
Santoshima Resident: g'night eos
Pema Pera: letting be is perhaps more accurate sometimes
Pema Pera: or even just seeing . . . .
Santoshima Resident: witnessing attitude
oO0Oo Resident: less proprietorship?
oO0Oo Resident: (sp?)
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :)
Pema Pera: hi Luci!
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya luci :))
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Luci ;) I'll send you a notecard ..
Tess Aristocrat: waves to Luci Lavender ㋡
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza, Paradise, Pema Tess
Lucinda Lavender: and all!
Santoshima Resident: hi luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: I am showing a friend this place:)
Eliza Madrigal waves to Luci's friend
Pema Pera: hi friend!
Pema Pera: (invisible friend)
Lucinda Lavender: Friend says Hi to all you you:)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Pema Pera: ah, friend in RL ?
oO0Oo Resident: Hi friend :))
Santoshima Resident: hello friend to luci!
Lucinda Lavender: Friend Waves:)
oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
oO0Oo Resident: /▌
oO0Oo Resident: / \
Tess Aristocrat: yippieeee
Eliza Madrigal: "quick, be smart"
Tess Aristocrat: omg..
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Tess Aristocrat faints.
Pema Pera: friendly overwhelming of friend . . .
Paradise Tennant: lol
oO0Oo Resident giggles
Tess Aristocrat:
Pema Pera: seeing and letting go form an interesting relationship
Eliza Madrigal somehow thinking of the 'faith as a mustard seed' parable, re moving mountains
Eliza Madrigal: listens, pema..
Pema Pera: can you say more, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: (hehehe)
Eliza Madrigal: well, just synthesizing Paradise's attention to faith/trust... with feeling of Himalayas :)
Pema Pera: faith/trust as in letting go of your own self-centered wishes and attempts?
Eliza Madrigal nods, guess so
Eliza Madrigal: not turning away
Pema Pera: as for seeing and letting go, the more you let go, the more you see, and therefore the easier it becomes to see more of what can let go of
Santoshima Resident: bye folks
Pema Pera: bye San!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Santoshima
Paradise Tennant: nite nite san :) nice to see you :)
oO0Oo Resident: Bye santoshima
Pema Pera: it's a bit like walking in a dense forest, seeing nothing but tree stems nearby
Pema Pera: but when we start getting out of the woods, and the trees are thinning, we can look further and further, making it easier to get out more rapidly
Pema Pera: like Eos' example of a speck of dust on a clean surface
--BELL--
Tess Aristocrat: that sounds like a good example of how it is for me when I meditate...leaving the woods, trees thinning..the farther I go, the easier
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: letting go speeds up, whereas accumulating slows down, typically . . .
Pema Pera: becoming more and more difficult
Paradise Tennant: funny ... thought I was sitting normally and now I seem ready to meditate sl is very funny sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose one question is, isn't the dropping, dropping obscurations from vision...
Eliza Madrigal: so seeing and dropping the same thing
Pema Pera nods
Pema Pera: the one helps the other
Pema Pera: like two sides of the same coin almost
Eliza Madrigal: drop see, see drop
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Paradise Tennant: say that fast twenty times :)
Pema Pera: getting started is always difficult
Pema Pera: "I don't see clearly" . . . "I don't know what to drop"
Pema Pera: but starting with any little thing, seeing or dropping, leads to more . . .
Eliza Madrigal: thinks of Steve Jobs "I'll know it when I see it" :))
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Pema Pera: in what context did he say that, do you remember?
Eliza Madrigal: referenced as a constant string actually
Eliza Madrigal: when for instance people would say 'we can't give you what you don't tell us you want'
Eliza Madrigal: I guess he was asking for limb jumping
Pema Pera: fascinating
Tess Aristocrat: I like that.
Pema Pera: don't listen to what I say but listen to what I mean :-)
Tess Aristocrat: He challenged his people
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Paradise Tennant: like how he left with us with "oh wow oh wow oh wow :)))
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Paradise Tennant: what a beautiful exit line
oO0Oo Resident: continuance line?
Eliza Madrigal: does sound like 'sight'
Eliza Madrigal: dropping :)
oO0Oo Resident: *sound like sight*
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pema Pera: I hadn't heard that, how nice!
Eliza Madrigal: he's a real empathy puzzle
oO0Oo Resident goes to pieces
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tess Aristocrat: does a jig
Tess Aristocrat: yippieeee
oO0Oo Resident: PB&J?
Tess Aristocrat: goodnight ㋡
Eliza Madrigal: Night Tess :)
Pema Pera: night, Tess!
oO0Oo Resident: Night Tess :)
Paradise Tennant: nite nite tess
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for this conversation, and for your email Pema (would you, Paradise, Sam, like me to make a note of it?)
Pema Pera: see you all soon again
Eliza Madrigal: Nght Pema
Pema Pera: sleep well
Paradise Tennant: nite pema thank you
Eliza Madrigal: be well :)
Paradise Tennant: nite eliza thanks kindly :)
Eliza Madrigal: k, one sec...
Paradise Tennant: hiya observerm sorry I did not see you :) waves
Eliza Madrigal: (he meant sunday night at the end)
Paradise Tennant: good nite ... eliza sam observerm .. thank you .. sleep well :)
Eliza Madrigal waves to observrm
Eliza Madrigal: Night Paradise, sweet dreams nice to see you
oO0Oo Resident: Night Pema, Para, Obs, Eliza :)