2012.09.03 07:00 - Every Day We Have New Eyes

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who first sat alone and shared the reading she had happened upon...
 

[tree bark photo taken while waiting for my daughter to emerge from school last week]

I am intrigued by the power of Ogham, the sacred alphabet that is formed by the way the branches of the trees cross each other against the sky.

Imagine reading the branches, and then the sky through the branches…. a bird flies across the ‘empty’ space, the wind blows causing the branches to move and re-arrange themselves.

The meaning changes, a sentence is created, a poem… Whatever you communicate with communicates with you. Everything is connected.
(http://www.winterspells.com/category/faery-tradition/)

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Xirana :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Eliza! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you
Xirana Oximoxi: nice to see you too:)
Eliza Madrigal: ty <3
Xirana Oximoxi: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: What are you thinking about today?

Xirana Oximoxi: I've been preparing a new exhibit here...'expressions' inspired by the intensity of expressions I've seen in the faces of athletes of Olimpic games:)
Xirana Oximoxi: and also trying to get inspiration for our Art of being project:)
Eliza Madrigal: *that* is really interesting ... did you paint faces or somehow take traces for inspiration and make something 'else'
Xirana Oximoxi: some faces and some full body:)
Xirana Oximoxi: do you want the lm?
Eliza Madrigal: yes please
Eliza Madrigal: thank you

--BELL--

Xirana Oximoxi: you're welcome:)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello boxy!...my internet savior:)
Alfred Kelberry: hi! :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have been reading articles about the paralympics, because they haven't been covered on television that I know of, at all
Alfred Kelberry: two lovely girls
Eliza Madrigal: ... underwater wheelchair acrobatics... pretty amazing

[ http://www.prafulla.net/graphics/pho...by-sue-austin/ ]

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Boxy :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Alfred Kelberry: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for keeping Xiri connected, Boxy :) We like her
Xirana Oximoxi: here either...just some images in the news, but I am not sure of it
Xirana Oximoxi: ty Eliza:)
Alfred Kelberry: she is an integral element of pab's happiness :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hehehe wow...what a nice compliment!!! :) you are too Eliza, much more than me:)
Alfred Kelberry: btw, eliza, nice reply to storm :)
Alfred Kelberry: xiri :)
Xirana Oximoxi: ahh it was you..:) lol
Eliza Madrigal: she is, Boxy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)

Alfred Kelberry: here goes mine...
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Zen! :)
Zen Arado: Hi Eliza, Xiri, boxy
Eliza Madrigal: I loved the link Storm sent... this is so *true*... slices of life
Xirana Oximoxi: I have not seen... I will do:)
Alfred Kelberry: sent
Alfred Kelberry: mr zen, hi
Zen Arado: yeh I saw it before
Zen Arado: trouble with Facebook
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Szavannah :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello szavanna! :-)
Zen Arado: same things get repeated
szavanna Resident: hi Liz, Xiri, Mr Zen and Alfy
Zen Arado: Hi Szaji:)
szavanna Resident: ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, cute Alfred :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: was funny though

Eliza Madrigal: Xiri, the link Storm sent was about how, if one lives hypothetically, to age 88... there are about 8 diff lives in there potentially :)
Eliza Madrigal: slices of 11
Eliza Madrigal: Zen this seems a good mirror of your life in a way.... at least from what you've shared
Zen Arado: oh? thought it was about reincarnation
Xirana Oximoxi: my father has some more years:)
szavanna Resident: °͜°
szavanna Resident: interesting
Zen Arado: yeh but it is only looking back and categorizing
Alfred Kelberry: sz! :)
Eliza Madrigal: many lives could be unpacked over universes, years in a single life, lives in the range of existence of humanity... etc?
szavanna Resident: meep!
Zen Arado: and simplifying a great deal
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: sounds really interesting:)
Eliza Madrigal: encouraging / inspiring - Storm has a very full happy energy

szavanna Resident: sometimes I think I live more lives in the same time °͜°

Zen Arado: I can't really remember the me of so many years ago

szavanna Resident: he does :)
Eliza Madrigal: who are you today, Sza?
szavanna Resident: today I am Indian
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Eliza Madrigal: how so?
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i share the sentiment, except my rationale is that you only live once :)
szavanna Resident: sometimes I think I have an Indian, African and Hungarian life that I am living similtanuously
Alfred Kelberry: sz, what a mix :)
Eliza Madrigal: layers
Xirana Oximoxi: what a mix!! :-)
szavanna Resident: ;p
Bleu Oleander: hiya :)
Zen Arado: interesting anyway :)

Alfred Kelberry: bleu!
szavanna Resident: hey Bleuji °͜°
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Bleu! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :) We are talking about multiple lives and how we experience them personally
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: fun subject
Eliza Madrigal: it is a nice compliment to the week's theme of "endings" actually.... and whether there is such a thing as "closure"

Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i think it's confusing to say "multiple lives"
Eliza Madrigal: identities?
Eliza Madrigal: expressions?
Bleu Oleander: selves?
Alfred Kelberry: you either talk about reincarnation and "experiences" of past lives or you talk about stages in life

Xirana Oximoxi: not sure in what sense we focus 'endings'...but thinking about it I feel more a metamorphose, a changing than an 'ending'
Xirana Oximoxi: I mean in my life:)

--BELL--                                      

Eliza Madrigal: nice, Xiri
Bleu Oleander: life is change ... some changes are bigger than others?
Bleu Oleander: in a sense change is a beginning and an ending at the same time?
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: yes.... I think some changes can be bigger
Eliza Madrigal: ahhh yes nice
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe the changes are also some kind of transformation of the same 'stuff' we are 'wearing' :)
Alfred Kelberry: sz, how are changes in south africa? :)
szavanna Resident: hmm messy
Bleu Oleander: basic components ... just rearranged?
Eliza Madrigal: traditional multiple lifetimes do make sense to me if allowing for complexity but not if being completely literal - linear
Alfred Kelberry: i heard something about miners
szavanna Resident: oh ;(
szavanna Resident: it's not a good change ;(
szavanna Resident: I hope it was an isolated incident
Xirana Oximoxi: yes Bleu... and also modified...but the basics are there....(now talking in general)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: (((S Africa))))


[Masaï Mara, Kenya]

Alfred Kelberry: sz, do you visit hungary often?
Xirana Oximoxi: modified, increased or developed...or also forgotten... :)
szavanna Resident: 
szavanna Resident: ♥
szavanna Resident: never
Alfred Kelberry: how so?
szavanna Resident: no close family really and no money
szavanna Resident: very far
Alfred Kelberry: yes, a long way
Alfred Kelberry: do you miss it?
szavanna Resident: other planet °͜°
szavanna Resident: not really
szavanna Resident: I never really feel homesick
Alfred Kelberry: found new home then :)
szavanna Resident: yes °͜°
Eliza Madrigal: new origins in a way :)
szavanna Resident: yes it's like leaving a life behind
szavanna Resident: like hungary was a "past life"
Zen Arado: no going back
szavanna Resident: strange °͜°
szavanna Resident: might go back to visit
Eliza Madrigal: that would be interesting Sza
szavanna Resident: hmm yes °͜°
Alfred Kelberry: sz, do so for one of the meetups :)
szavanna Resident: (((( friends ))))) °͜°
szavanna Resident: oh that would be amazing

Zen Arado: I knew people kept going backwards and forwards for England to Australia
Bleu Oleander: (((sza)))
Zen Arado: couldn't settle in either
Alfred Kelberry: who would ever want to leave australia for england?! :)
Zen Arado: you miss things Alf
Zen Arado: even miss the seasons
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, yes
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: and relatives
szavanna Resident: I am ok with the seasons in SA
Eliza Madrigal: restlessness ... open questions perhaps ... I wonder how many of us feel this
szavanna Resident: and I prefer not to see relatives hmm

Zen Arado: everywhere is here
Alfred Kelberry: i guess it depends on when you left. in your 20s or 40s. more attachments later on in life.
Zen Arado: every time is now
Alfred Kelberry: sz, why not?
Eliza Madrigal: "nostalgia for the present" (Eos term)

Bleu Oleander: every me is me?
szavanna Resident: tough times with relatives ...mom took her life, brother doesn't communicate
Zen Arado: or no me is me :)
Zen Arado: sad Sza
Bleu Oleander: oh sorry (((sza)))
szavanna Resident: ((( friendies ;)))
Alfred Kelberry: me is me, and i, and you, and we're all together
Eliza Madrigal: (((((((((playasbeinglovesszavanna)
Zen Arado: best time is now...best place is here...
szavanna Resident: ;o)
szavanna Resident: ❤
Bleu Oleander: (((group hug)))
Eliza Madrigal: :) whoa... Boxy singing Beatles?
Xirana Oximoxi: (((((szavanna))))))))
szavanna Resident: ((grouphug))))
Alfred Kelberry: i am the eggman! goo goo a joo
szavanna Resident: we all have hard times
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eliza Madrigal: some things unfathomable ... those are the mysteries which defy "closure" perhaps

Zen Arado: I don't think I was any happier any other time in my life
Alfred Kelberry: sz plays guitar wonderfully
Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting Zen
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Bleu Oleander: what exactly do we mean by closure?
Zen Arado: I could always find ways to make myself miserable :)
szavanna Resident is a noise maker
Eliza Madrigal: :) Zen
szavanna Resident: ❤ Zenji

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: zen, interesting
Zen Arado: I never understood closure
Zen Arado: some doors close firmly..others remain a little ajar
Bleu Oleander: is it tied to memory .... leaving a memory in a good place?
Zen Arado: which is better?
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu, well it seems that for a while there was this idea in psychology that when there is an ending or trauma, one needs to have some agreed upon story....
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: it perpetuated an idea, I think, that one couldn't move on without that
Zen Arado: we make a story out of everything

Bleu Oleander: so writing one's own narrative and leaving the ending where it is comfortable?
Eliza Madrigal: couldn't sort of incorporate and love and see... unless the other/s did
Zen Arado: wonder how true out stories are
Zen Arado: it was their fault, not mine :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) well sometimes it may be possible
Eliza Madrigal: but not always, and that should be okay

Zen Arado: I have lots of stories of how life treated me badly :)
Zen Arado: but really it wasn't so bad
szavanna Resident: yes I could go on and on hehe
Eliza Madrigal: okay to leave it open
Eliza Madrigal: back to "ignorance" ;-)
Zen Arado: I suspect I was an asshole a lot
Bleu Oleander: you can rewrite some of those, see them with new eyes perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: heheh Zen
Bleu Oleander: hahaha
Zen Arado: still am :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :))) Zen... I don't think so:))
Zen Arado: oh yes
szavanna Resident: Zenji ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: agree Bleu ... I think writing is cathartic

Bleu Oleander: everyday we have "new eyes" ... we can reassess things

Eliza Madrigal: there is a film coming up... called Cloud Atlas. It is made by the creators of Matrix and is a complex picture of multiple lives
[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_hemon]

szavanna Resident: yes stories change with time
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Zen Arado: but we can't do anything about the past
Zen Arado: not much anyway
Bleu Oleander: sounds interesting Eliza
Xirana Oximoxi: we can select our souvenirs:)
szavanna Resident: Cloud Atlas?
Zen Arado: I read the book I think
szavanna Resident: interesting
Zen Arado: was about 5 years ago
Alfred Kelberry: "an epic story of humankind in which the actions and consequences of our lives impact one another throughout the past, present and future as one soul is shaped from a murderer into a savior and a single act of kindness ripples out for centuries to inspire a revolution."
Eliza Madrigal: sounds amazing - Tom Hanks in lead (my son's favorite actor) :))
szavanna Resident: wow
szavanna Resident: nice °͜°
Zen Arado: I can't remember the story
Eliza Madrigal: there is a thread of 'basic goodness' in the film, as I understand... kindness reverberates

[Eliza apologizes for the following comment - was said in teasing but too much teasing, with the idea of Zen being anything other than a complete gentleman being ridiculous] :)

Zen Arado: so it didn't ripple much with me :)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh... too much of an asshole? hahha
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal rolls over laughing...
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it seems so. goodness butterfly effect.
Zen Arado: watch it Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: badness has a greater one perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: no way :)

Zen Arado: I think we love to believe in goodness
Zen Arado: but it can be rare
Eliza Madrigal: resonate with goodness
Bleu Oleander: subjective?
szavanna Resident: Zenji is pure goodness
Zen Arado: most are just too busy with their own lives
Zen Arado: preoccupation prevents goodness
Alfred Kelberry: i believe people are inherently kind. most of them.
Zen Arado: too busy for it
Eliza Madrigal: busy bodies is a term for those too concerned with others' lives maybe

Bleu Oleander: goodness is relative, subjective I think
Zen Arado: I don't believe in either basic goodness or badness
Zen Arado: some societies could be brutal
Zen Arado: Christian view is basic badness
Zen Arado: original sin
Eliza Madrigal: this is true ... yet in most historical accounts there remains a thread or trace of basic kindness even in dire conditions
Eliza Madrigal: if only for the sake of one's own "dignity"
Zen Arado: yes...so a mixture of both

szavanna Resident: i see that in africa a lot ....in crazy circumstances ....ubuntu appears
Eliza Madrigal: "Ubuntu appears" :)
Zen Arado: and good and bad hard to define
szavanna Resident: ;p
Xirana Oximoxi: ahh 'Ubuntu' :)
Zen Arado: (Chines Story)

--BELL--

Xirana Oximoxi: I remember perfectly the video explaining 'Ubuntu' in Africa...
Bleu Oleander: can't define good or bad ... relative, subjective
Alfred Kelberry: zen, it's not about basic goodness, but basic societal behavior. we tend to avoid trouble. we're cautious, but kind on average. there's also a reciprocal effect - we want others to be kind to us too.
Zen Arado: survival?

Xirana Oximoxi: 'I am because we are'... :)

Eliza Madrigal smiles
szavanna Resident: ❤ Xiri ...I love that
Xirana Oximoxi: me too.... I have had to look for the quote:)) during the pause:))

Alfred Kelberry: i do not however see correlation between bad deeds and atonement
Alfred Kelberry: you can be a total asshole and live a happy live
Alfred Kelberry: and vice versa
Eliza Madrigal: I have never seen that
Zen Arado: lots of factors
Zen Arado: none of these words have clear meanings
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, you don't even look at moderately disturbing pictures :)

Zen Arado: happy, sad, good, bad
Zen Arado: am I happy atm?
Zen Arado: not sure
Alfred Kelberry: zen, approximate is enough
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Bleu Oleander: have meanings for me ... maybe different meanings for you?
Zen Arado: not unhappy
szavanna Resident: I am happy :)
Zen Arado: who is judging?
szavanna Resident: just checked
Bleu Oleander: :) me too
szavanna Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: from the outside a person may look successful by some estimations, but that isn't the same as happy
Alfred Kelberry: zen, you do
Zen Arado: 'happy' means different things to different people
Xirana Oximoxi: all these concepts have a very powerful subjective part
szavanna Resident: yes I think so Xiri
Zen Arado: a meaningless word really
Bleu Oleander: feelings are subjective
Eliza Madrigal: and that's the thing about being a total asshole... even horrendously vapid people sometimes are beautiful to someone in their life, kind, etc
Bleu Oleander: I don't think words are meaningless

Zen Arado: (wishes he hadn't said asshole)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Zen, sorry
Eliza Madrigal: it was funny

Zen Arado: not meaningless totally but so vague,...
szavanna Resident: °͜° Liz
Eliza Madrigal: I never even use the word aloud, haha
Bleu Oleander: we give words their meaning
Alfred Kelberry: zen, true, but there is a general understanding of what being happy is. it seems to be enough for most people :)

szavanna Resident: I spent almost 10 years trying to see - how to make people happy ... with the opencafe ...
Bleu Oleander: subjective
Eliza Madrigal nods
Zen Arado: happy Hitler :)
szavanna Resident: everyone was from different backgrounds, ages
szavanna Resident: and I tried to make sure that by the time they left ...they were happy

Bleu Oleander: people are or aren't happy ... hard to make someone happy
Xirana Oximoxi: usually when we are 'moving' in these kind of 'fields of knowledge, it's necessary to define previously the meaning of concepts
szavanna Resident: hmm yes Bleu

Zen Arado: is contentment happiness?
Zen Arado: acceptance is happiness for me
Bleu Oleander: everyone has their own meaning of happiness
Eliza Madrigal: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle)

Zen Arado: not an euphoric state
szavanna Resident: I usually went by smiles ...if they were smiling ....I thought - I did my job
Xirana Oximoxi: we are just talking about it between us and probably each one understand it differently
Zen Arado: they have a downer after I think
Bleu Oleander: yes Xiri
Eliza Madrigal nods Xiri
Alfred Kelberry: xiri, it goes against pab's tradition of vagueness :)
Eliza Madrigal: "went by smiles" :))
szavanna Resident: yes because I didn't even speak the language many times

Xirana Oximoxi: well boxy...we are not preparing a 'thesis' :))
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Eliza Madrigal: ((((((( ))))))))
Zen Arado: we smile even if we are unhappy sometimes
szavanna Resident: 
szavanna Resident: hugs Liz ♥
Bleu Oleander: research has shown that if you move your mouth into the shape of a smile you feel happy
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi and bye eliza :)
Zen Arado: we don't want others to see

Eliza Madrigal: I have a dog to visit - a dog that makes me very happy :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza :)
szavanna Resident: yes - I mean "genuine smiles"
Alfred Kelberry: xiri, not even close :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Yaku:)
Zen Arado: byee Eliza
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Eliza
szavanna Resident: take care Liz °͜° chat soon
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku, sorry to miss you, just dashing off in hopes of coming back for Original Face today
szavanna Resident: hi Yaku :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku :)
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
Alfred Kelberry: dogs are good. they make their owners happy.
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Alfred Kelberry: yaku san
szavanna Resident: mmm mine is sleeping here
szavanna Resident: my dog I mean
Bleu Oleander: mine too
szavanna Resident: :))
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: happiness is sleeping
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:)).... but when they create trouble with the neighbourg..dogs also make the owner unhappy:)
Bleu Oleander: ha!

Alfred Kelberry: oh, is it the open original face meeting today?
Zen Arado: yep
Alfred Kelberry: cool
Alfred Kelberry: i'll try to make it
Alfred Kelberry: xiri :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, but they do it cause they love you :)
Zen Arado: nice doggie Sza :)
szavanna Resident: °͜° yes he is cute
Alfred Kelberry: even when they chew on your slippers :)
szavanna Resident: oh yes it happened today
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
szavanna Resident: thank god it's summer
szavanna Resident: we don't need it
szavanna Resident: ;D
Alfred Kelberry: timely slippers destruction

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: bleu, those smart eyes :)
szavanna Resident: mmm I love dogs °͜°
Bleu Oleander: he's read all those books too hehe
Alfred Kelberry: i bet!
Xirana Oximoxi: :))
Alfred Kelberry: and he's testing you in this picture :)
szavanna Resident: hehe
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Bleu Oleander: awww nice puppy Zen
Alfred Kelberry: i can make one one title: power of art :)
Alfred Kelberry: rrrrex! :)
Alfred Kelberry: i think he wants to go out, zen :)
Bleu Oleander: :)

Zen Arado: he had just come in after the rain during a walk
Alfred Kelberry: ready for a hike
Zen Arado: rain
Alfred Kelberry: oh
szavanna Resident: I must go - teaching piano to son °͜°
szavanna Resident: ty all for being amazing ❤
Bleu Oleander: (((sza))) byee
Alfred Kelberry: sz, good parenting. enjoy it :)
Zen Arado: I had towelled him dry
szavanna Resident: tyty have fun all
Zen Arado: I better go too so can get back for OF
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Szavanna!!
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for puppy sharing :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Zen
Zen Arado: byee all
Bleu Oleander: puppy love
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Zen...I was looking for a picture of my dogs too...now I can't find:))
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye zen szavana
Alfred Kelberry: xiri, you can draw them :)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes:)
 

"Lucky" Superstar   [Eliza's doggie picture offering]

Xirana Oximoxi: ok.... maybe we can go to prepare our wonderful project....
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: we'll leave you MP
Alfred Kelberry: ok, i'll be off too
Bleu Oleander: and go work on our project :)
Alfred Kelberry: be good
Yakuzza Lethecus: be better boxy
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Boxy...looking fordwar to see your piece of art:)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bleu Oleander: bye MP
Bleu Oleander: ok we can go to my plot?
Xirana Oximoxi: yes