2012.09.09 01:00 - Mostly about mesh

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: good morning
Agatha Macbeth: Hello babe
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth: How iz one?
Wol Euler: back in a sec, need to decant the coffee
Agatha Macbeth: OMG
Agatha Macbeth: Technical
Wol Euler: very technical.
Wol Euler: difficult
Agatha Macbeth: Slurp
Wol Euler: strenuous
Wol Euler: but worth it
Agatha Macbeth: What does it involve exactly?
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: pouring the coffee from the maker into a thermos
Agatha Macbeth: What does that do?
Wol Euler: keeps the coffee warm :)
Wol Euler pokes you
Agatha Macbeth is puzzled
Wol Euler: I find warm coffee more tasty than cold
Agatha Macbeth: I just pour hot water on mine
Wol Euler: O.O
Wol Euler: you dilute your cold coffee with hot water?
Agatha Macbeth: Cold coffee?
Agatha Macbeth: Yeuch
Agatha Macbeth: Wouldn't touch it
Wol Euler: exactly. I pour mine into a thermos flask so that it remains hot without needing to be diluted
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: Well if it works for you....
Wol Euler: I'm still confused about your method.
Wol Euler: oh, you mean instant coffee, powdered
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Wol Euler: ah :)
Wol Euler: well, no wonder we are confused
Agatha Macbeth: Is there another kind?
Wol Euler: yes :) I mean *real* coffee made from ground-up beans
Agatha Macbeth: Riiight
Wol Euler grins.
Agatha Macbeth: I must have missed that
Agatha Macbeth: You mean like cappucino?
Wol Euler: I suppose it's sort of like that
Wol Euler: but it isn't
Agatha Macbeth: I don't know the different kinds of coffe, I'm a tea person
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Was I imagining things or did somebody walk past a moment ago?
Wol Euler: he was real :) not like when the NDR passes through
Agatha Macbeth: A noob?
Wol Euler: but I had an intuition that he wasn't going to be interested at all -- yes, brand new -- so I didn't bother
Agatha Macbeth: Looks like your intuition was correct ;-)
Wol Euler smiles modestly.
Agatha Macbeth: Any luck with the Mugunghwa sale?
Wol Euler: paradise may take two bits of it
Wol Euler: the rest I will probably have to abandon
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Agatha Macbeth: Haven't seen her for ages
Wol Euler: I gather she comes to the 7pm if at all
Wol Euler: nice dress, btw
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, understandable
Wol Euler: autumn-y
Agatha Macbeth: TY
Agatha Macbeth: Tryin to think where I got it
Agatha Macbeth: Adam and Eve?
Agatha Macbeth: Thought they made skins
Wol Euler: ty
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Agatha Macbeth: I must take a look there myself, cos I don't remember it at all
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: as long as we are doing fashion, look at these boots
Agatha Macbeth hearsthe church clock
Agatha Macbeth: Oh right
Wol Euler: mesh boots :)
Wol Euler: watch

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Agatha Macbeth: I'm watching
Wol Euler: nice, eh?
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, nice
Wol Euler: and when I sit ... no prim edges
Agatha Macbeth: Let's see
Agatha Macbeth: Ah I can see it now
Agatha Macbeth: Like all one
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: all one bendy unit
Agatha Macbeth: Is that what mesh does then?
Wol Euler: finally a use for mesh that makes sense IMHO
Wol Euler: yep
Agatha Macbeth: Well good job I can see it then :p
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: there are downsides to it, too. On Bax boots and others you can change colour, give it a red sole or a metallic heelspike
Wol Euler: can't do that here, mesh is non-mod
Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
Agatha Macbeth: Can't make scripts for it then?
Wol Euler: nope
Wol Euler: because it's not a prim, in that sense
Wol Euler: has no "inside" to put a script into
Agatha Macbeth: What actually is it then?
Wol Euler: it's like a new clothing layer actually
Agatha Macbeth: Like alpha?
Wol Euler: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
Wol Euler: with a bit of yes-but :)
Wol Euler: it is an object with dimensions, like a prim
Wol Euler: so it doesn't follow your body shape exactly
Wol Euler: it just mimics your body movement
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler: that's why mesh blouses fit so badly unless you are a Barbie
Agatha Macbeth: Hee
Agatha Macbeth: So what do you do if something doesn't fit properly?
Wol Euler: if it's mesh? put up with it
Wol Euler: or change your shape to fit the dress
Agatha Macbeth: That seems rather restrictive
Wol Euler: neither of which appeals to me
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Wol Euler: most makers know this, they provide five or six sizes
Wol Euler: but still doesn't always work
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Wol Euler: my boobs are "too small" for the width of my chest
Agatha Macbeth: You have a very individual shape :)
Wol Euler: if I pick the blouse that fits my boobs, it disappears into my ribs
Wol Euler: if I fit one that fits the ribs, it hovers two inches in front of my boobs
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Agatha Macbeth: Presusamably the process will evolve tho?
Agatha Macbeth: Or presumably even
Agatha Macbeth: (presusamambly?)
Wol Euler: I'm not sure. There is a project in SL or perhaps just a desire, to make mesh editable
Wol Euler: but unless and until that happens, the answer will be (a) no, or (b) custom-fitted
Wol Euler: and many makers do offer custom fit
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if the designers actually like it themselves?
Wol Euler: good question
Agatha Macbeth: There still doesn't seem a whole lot of it about
Wol Euler: it's creeping in
Wol Euler: these boots are part of an all-mesh outfit
Wol Euler: I bought it to get them
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Wol Euler: even AVid has made a mesh dress or two
Agatha Macbeth: She has?
Wol Euler: but mesh just doesn't have the detail that prims do
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Wol Euler: you cannot get fine folds and layering effects in mesh. Just does not happen.
Wol Euler: and AVid is all about fine folds and layering
Agatha Macbeth: I guess the ideal solution would be some kind of merge between the two?
Agatha Macbeth: Like mesh prims or something
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Mind you, look how far we have come since the days of prim hair [grin]
Wol Euler: heheh, true
Wol Euler: I saw some mesh hair the other day. Really freaky, looked like a TV newscaster, spray-fixed to death
Agatha Macbeth grins
Wol Euler: because of that clunky, non-detailed effect of being not prims
Agatha Macbeth: To think everybody looked like Ruth once
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: some still do
Wol Euler: and good luck to them
Agatha Macbeth: If that works for you, why not?
Wol Euler: exactly
Wol Euler: and think of how much money they save :)

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: This is true
Agatha Macbeth: I've seen so many changes in SL just in three years
Agatha Macbeth: What is rigged mesh?
Wol Euler: rigged means "body-motion-following", as I understand it
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler: but that doesn't make sense, because I thought all mesh did that
Wol Euler: so ... I don't know
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Agatha Macbeth: We need to find someone who makes it and ask :p
Wol Euler: SL wiki says "Meshes may be general purpose, representing simple geometry, or rigged, in which case they also store information allowing them to be animated along with a Second Life avatar."
Wol Euler: so there are meshes that don't follow the body movement
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Wol Euler: what their possible use and advantage would be, I cannot guess
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder how they do that then?
Agatha Macbeth: If they can't use scripts I mean
Wol Euler: rigged mesh has an invisible (to us) second component, a "skeleton" of the body attachment and movement points
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: Like motion capture?
Wol Euler: "A rigged mesh is a mesh with an internal virtual skeleton. Manipulating the virtual skeleton causes corresponding changes in the shape of the mesh, which allows the mesh to be animated."
Agatha Macbeth: There ya go
Wol Euler: so you say "this point matches the inner elbow, that point is the bellybutton" etc
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Wol Euler: so the mesh "knows" how to move with the wearer
Agatha Macbeth: Kewt
Wol Euler: it is a great idea
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Wol Euler: just this lack of fine detail, combined with the inability to modify ....
Agatha Macbeth: Pros and cons
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: More tea required at next bell I think :p
Wol Euler: :)

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: BRB
Wol Euler: ah, I just figured it out. Plain mesh is for things like buildings and trees
Wol Euler: rigged is clothing
Agatha Macbeth: Back
Wol Euler: wb
Agatha Macbeth: Stopped off at the loo on route :p
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: maintaining balance, eh?
Agatha Macbeth: Well, get rid of the stuff that fermented during the night
Wol Euler chortles.
Agatha Macbeth: Mick is on, he says he might come over
Wol Euler: hello mick
Agatha Macbeth: And here he is!
Agatha Macbeth: Wocher Micko
Wol Euler: moin moin
Mickorod Renard: hiya
Agatha Macbeth: How are we this morning?
Mickorod Renard: yes, I cant use the mesh cos my pc is too slow me thinks
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Wol Euler: or you need a newer better viewer software
Mickorod Renard: yes perhaps
Agatha Macbeth: The old non-mesh V1s do seem quicker tho
Wol Euler: I recommend Firestorm, stable and mesh-enabled
Mickorod Renard: ohh ok, ty
Wol Euler: and looks mostly like V1 so none of that silly v2 crap
Mickorod Renard: yes
Wol Euler: http://www.phoenixviewer.com/
Mickorod Renard: I have had issues with both my laptops and the sort of viewer they want to load,,one day I will buy something good
Agatha Macbeth: Actually, mesh-enabled Singularity is quite good
Wol Euler: ah, don't know that one
Agatha Macbeth: That's what I use
Wol Euler: what does it do better/differently?
Agatha Macbeth: I found Phoenix started behaving oddly with my graphics, and Bert said the same
Mickorod Renard: the person I know thats quite into it is kaiya Manbi, who is my landlord on sl...seems like K has been into mesh a while

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Wol and me have been talking about it earlier, strangely
Mickorod Renard: yes, wol mentioned it
Mickorod Renard: a lovely sunny day here
Wol Euler: here too
Agatha Macbeth: Yes, here too
Wol Euler: warm but not hot, nice breeze
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Wol Euler: a fine autumn day in fact
Agatha Macbeth likes Sunday mornings
Wol Euler: they're easy, people say
Agatha Macbeth: It's not officially autumn yet ;-)
Mickorod Renard: did either of you go to i ching yesterday?
Agatha Macbeth: I did
Wol Euler: too tired, I went to bed
Mickorod Renard: was it good?
Wol Euler: how was it?
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Pila was talking about Buddha stuff
Agatha Macbeth: Much of which went over my head sadly
Mickorod Renard: ahh, i will read the logs..i really wanted to attend but something came up
Agatha Macbeth: But he's still always interesting to listen to
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, maybe you will make more sense of it :p
Mickorod Renard: grin
Agatha Macbeth: Seems strange to see you sitting there and not QT
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: He's usually our only sunday companion
Mickorod Renard: ahh I see
Mickorod Renard: I dont see QT often these days
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe he slept in today
Mickorod Renard: but then I dont come on often ither
Agatha Macbeth: Actually he has been coming more often lately
Agatha Macbeth: usually to the 1300
Mickorod Renard: I just paid my tier...always a panic on last day,,he he
Wol Euler: don't you have automatic payment?
Agatha Macbeth: Flow my tiers...
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: oh, your rent to the landlord, nevermind
Mickorod Renard: no, i like to keep a handle on it Wol
Agatha Macbeth watches Mick turn the handle
Mickorod Renard: its an extravagance but I do it for reasons of ,,,I dunno
Wol Euler: wait, do you own land and pay tier to the Lab, or do you rent and pay a landlord?
Mickorod Renard: I rent and pay a landlord
Wol Euler: thought so, thanks
Mickorod Renard: er
Mickorod Renard: I have never been fully signed up to secondlife..like a non premium memb
Agatha Macbeth: Er
Agatha Macbeth: Good thinking
Mickorod Renard: thought I would put in the meaningful bit befre the er
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Mickorod Renard: I have never seen the benefit of being premium
Wol Euler: the only benefit is that you can own land
Agatha Macbeth: Well they give you 300L a week :p
Wol Euler: which is yours to treat as you wish
Mickorod Renard: but to own it costs too
Wol Euler: without landlord restrictions
Wol Euler: yes, mick, it costs a lot

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Which why there's more and more empty land presumably
Mickorod Renard: when I came on nearly 5 years ago I didnt expect to be here so long...and having a place here is so odd when you think about it,,cos it doesnt really exist
Agatha Macbeth: It's rather depressing to walk through a flat green sim with hardly any buildings and no people on it
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: that is so true Ags
Wol Euler: and to see all the yellow on the map
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh that too
Agatha Macbeth: If there was a guarantee that things will improve someone could make themselves a lot of money by buying up land right now
Mickorod Renard: I am sure I must stop renting land,,if I tot up how much I spend on it,,over a year and that I dont do anything there except send my avi before I switch off..its ludicrous
Agatha Macbeth: You could use your plot in the village for that
Mickorod Renard: I know,,but I like the privacy
Agatha Macbeth: That's what I often do
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Mickorod Renard: am I going mad
Wol Euler: no, it's a reasonable thing to want
Agatha Macbeth: Not going, no :D
Agatha Macbeth: You don't have to be mad to work here but it helps
Mickorod Renard: you know what,,I think its my last payment today,,,although I have to add,,the money goes to an animal trust
Wol Euler: so think of it as a RL charitable donation
Wol Euler: a good thing
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: maybe I can get tax back?
Wol Euler: if they give you a receipt, you surely can
Wol Euler: but you would need a formal written receipt
Mickorod Renard: well,,i dont think its worth it,,its not a huge amount,,just a silly amout
Mickorod Renard: in context of being for nothing
Agatha Macbeth: But what will happen to your wild sex life? :D
Mickorod Renard: I dont have any of that on sl,,nor in rl when it comes to that,,,just in my dreams
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Mickorod Renard: he he
Wol Euler: awwwwww
Agatha Macbeth: Mick the dirty dreamer
Wol Euler: and wild sex lives are still possible in clubs *cough*
Agatha Macbeth: So I hear
Mickorod Renard: are they?..cough cough
Agatha Macbeth: Now *that's* a place at least where SL seems to be thriving
Wol Euler: I hear that some of them are struggling too, though. Declining attendance
Mickorod Renard: well, without it sl may well have become dead end
Wol Euler: true
Mickorod Renard: I think a virtual reality sl would be good
Agatha Macbeth: Av population is never consistent: it's either no people on a sim or about 50
Mickorod Renard: many void a crouded sim cos of lag
Agatha Macbeth nods
Agatha Macbeth: Often you can't actually get ino them
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: exactly, not that I try and get in sex places
Agatha Macbeth: I was thinking more of music concerts :p
Wol Euler: of course not

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: ahh
Agatha Macbeth: Never seen a 50 person gang bang
Mickorod Renard: some of the best times I had was when my avi was young and carefree..I would visit dance places,,maily latin..and endulge in romatic chat
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: You old flirt
Mickorod Renard: seems a long time ago
Wol Euler: you could create a young and carefree alt ...
Mickorod Renard: I dont know I could do it now
Agatha Macbeth ponders Youngandcarefree Resident
Mickorod Renard: my avi's testosterone level has dropped
Wol Euler: ah but that is the point, mick :) it wouldn't be that avatar
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe that's why your hair fell out! :p
Mickorod Renard: well theres an interesting point
Wol Euler: alts are different people
Mickorod Renard: true
Agatha Macbeth: Hence the name
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: maybe there is room for a little envigorising of the sl nightlife for an alt
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: just a thought ...
Mickorod Renard: especially as winter is on its way
Agatha Macbeth: Oh indubitably
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Just don't let Morg find out ;-)
Mickorod Renard: yea
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I had best get doing something in rl
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: Garden? wardrobe?
Mickorod Renard: I will see you later sometime
Wol Euler: at 7am perhaps
Mickorod Renard: maybe both
Wol Euler: for the guardian meeting
Agatha Macbeth: Early today
Mickorod Renard: I cant, am out for lunch
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: awww
Agatha Macbeth: Pub luch eh
Mickorod Renard: ok ciao for now
Agatha Macbeth: or lunch even
Mickorod Renard: yes
Agatha Macbeth waves to Mick
Mickorod Renard: byeeeeee
Wol Euler: bye mick!
Agatha Macbeth: Want to take a look at this Ploom place?
Wol Euler: sure, let's go
Agatha Macbeth: Yay