2012.12.02 07:00 - Doppelgangers

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: *
Bleu Oleander: hey Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: hi :)
Bleu Oleander: how are u?
Catrinamonblue Resident: doing ok and you?
Bleu Oleander: pretty good thanks
Bleu Oleander: hiya druth :)
druth Vlodovic: hey guys
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Druth
Bleu Oleander: no topic yet ... any suggestions?
druth Vlodovic: how about you,any ideas?
Bleu Oleander: was reading about the concept of "doppelganger"

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: and thinking how it might apply to avatars
Bleu Oleander: body double idea
druth Vlodovic: oh?
Bleu Oleander: was fascinated that it can happen in rl
Bleu Oleander: as a hallucination
druth Vlodovic: ??
Bleu Oleander: so was wondering how you sense your avatars
Bleu Oleander: as another embodiment of your self?
Bleu Oleander: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelgänger
druth Vlodovic: I was still thinking of RL, and the experience of suddenly seeing a stranger in the mirror
Bleu Oleander: yes!
druth Vlodovic: sometimes our self-image is different from our body
Bleu Oleander: people can have a condition in rl where they don't recognize themselves in a mirror
Bleu Oleander: how has your avatar changed your self image?
Bleu Oleander: or has it?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I still new to all this so haven't had the chance really to think it through
Catrinamonblue Resident: so far for me ot's just a way to communicate with people here
Catrinamonblue Resident: *it's
Bleu Oleander: why have you chosen the avatar you are using?
Catrinamonblue Resident: Cause I'm a girl and always wanted red hair :)
Bleu Oleander: what ideas went into designing it?
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Catrinamonblue Resident: no real thought went into it yet :) maybe I should think about it though
Bleu Oleander: so you probably have not experimented with alts then?
Catrinamonblue Resident: no
Catrinamonblue Resident: and really have no desire to
Bleu Oleander: its interesting
Catrinamonblue Resident: I am who I am and really don't need to be anything else
Bleu Oleander: fun to see how it makes you feel
druth Vlodovic: what have been your experiences bleu?
druth Vlodovic: you've spent a lot oftime modifying and creating avatars
Bleu Oleander: a lot actually :)
Bleu Oleander: we did an Art of Being project based on alts
Bleu Oleander: everyone had to create an alt and interact with the group in some way
Bleu Oleander: then we all came to the session as our alts
Bleu Oleander: was quite fun
Catrinamonblue Resident: interesting
druth Vlodovic: did you see peopledifferently?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: saw sides of myself I hadn't seen before
Bleu Oleander: expecially switching genders
druth Vlodovic: how was that different?
Bleu Oleander: still feels more natural to me as Bleu
Bleu Oleander: felt more stereotyped as a male
Bleu Oleander: having no first hand experience to draw from
druth Vlodovic: you feltthe need to act like a different person
Bleu Oleander: more about what I think a male would be than how it is to be male
Bleu Oleander: have you used an alt druth?
druth Vlodovic: maybe you should do a furry, less experience with them RL so you can relax a bit :)
druth Vlodovic: I have alts I've made for various reasons
Catrinamonblue Resident: Do you have a furry Druth?
Bleu Oleander: I have a cat
druth Vlodovic: but mainly I'm just druth,and most of my changes are here
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: this is the closest I have :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: a realfurry av needs a bit of shopping and expense :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: why have you gone for the pale skin etc bleu?
Bleu Oleander: a change
Bleu Oleander: was thinking black and white for the next Art of Being project
Bleu Oleander: "Clarity"
druth Vlodovic: when you do these changes to your av do you feel it changes you?
Bleu Oleander: was working on my project so changed my avatar at the same time
Bleu Oleander: i do

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: each avatar adds subtle differences to the way I feel not really that it changes "me" although over time I think it can
druth Vlodovic: sort of like masks, or clothing,put on for specific reasons
Bleu Oleander: yes, i think so
druth Vlodovic: peopleforget we do do this RL,changing our appearance for different reasons
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: rl changes make us feel different too
Bleu Oleander: makeup, haircuts, new glasses ... all can give us a new sense of "me"
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: I find that in RL it's emotional changes, rather than appearance ones that give me the doppleganger effect
Catrinamonblue Resident: how Druth
druth Vlodovic: my self image changes according to my internal self image
Bleu Oleander: /listens
druth Vlodovic: then I look in the mirror and I look different than what I expect,even though I am the same physically
Bleu Oleander: so emotional states affect your sense of self
druth Vlodovic: emotional/mental
Bleu Oleander: yes
druth Vlodovic: I was talking to someone about the onion idea of self
Bleu Oleander: how do emotional states affect your sl sense of self?
druth Vlodovic: some peoplethink it means there is no "real" self
druth Vlodovic: but I think that peopleare all of themselves,how they feel,what they do, how they think etc
Bleu Oleander: yes, many selves in a way
druth Vlodovic: so the self does change
druth Vlodovic: there is no real anchor except persistence
Bleu Oleander: can change often and quickly
Bleu Oleander: memories are anchor perhaps
Bleu Oleander: a sense of lived experience
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Morning :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Eliza
Bleu Oleander: i'll make you a note card
Eliza Madrigal: thanks
druth Vlodovic: yayy1 I won a gift basket at a raffle yesterday
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Eliza Madrigal: in SL?
Catrinamonblue Resident: RL
Eliza Madrigal: ah, so no lemming shooter :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: no :)
druth Vlodovic: well, memories change, in both importance and content
druth Vlodovic: hmm, there might be a lemming shooter, I didn't really look at it
druth Vlodovic: hi eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri :)
Eliza Madrigal waves to Xiri
druth Vlodovic: you can't really have an anchor that changes and vanishes over time
Xirana Oximoxi: ui...sorry Eliza:)
druth Vlodovic: hi Xir
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Cat:)
Bleu Oleander: so even anchor's aren't that permanent
Eliza Madrigal: its okay... feel more real here when someone bumps into me
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
druth Vlodovic: there,solid :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: do any of you ever get a sense of unreality in RL, like you aren't really you?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: what a great question
Catrinamonblue Resident: a lot
Bleu Oleander: kinda like an OBE?
Catrinamonblue Resident: more like disassociation
druth Vlodovic: sort of like a no-IBE
Bleu Oleander: the sense of self wanders sometimes
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm watching me but not really me
Xirana Oximoxi: I am thinking about your question druth...and I think I don't... I feel 'me' here or not here
Eliza Madrigal: I am often called by another name, the same other name - when it happens there is a very odd sensation

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: hey Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Bleu Oleander: we're taking about "doppelgangers" and the sense of self
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Yaku :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Bleu Oleander: hi Aph :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Yaku, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: hiya
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph and Yaku :)
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes I wish I were two
druth Vlodovic: so Xir is eternally Xir, I wonder what that must be like
Bleu Oleander: that's quite a wish!
Bleu Oleander: one seems to be all I can handle haha
Xirana Oximoxi: welll I can have different sides too...but everywhere :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: excuse me but I must go now
Catrinamonblue Resident: bye everyone
Eliza Madrigal: bye Catrina
Bleu Oleander: bye Cat :)
druth Vlodovic: bye cat
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Cat, have a nice day:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye catrina
Eliza Madrigal: another time it happens is when I meet someone with whom there is instant familiarity
Bleu Oleander: nice when that happens :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... but also 'odd'
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: did you say what you are reading Bleu? Is it Hallucinations?
Bleu Oleander: so many subtle cues at work
Bleu Oleander: yes, Hallucinations by Oliver Sacks
Eliza Madrigal: ah, was skimming last night in a bookstore :)
Bleu Oleander: really enjoying it
Bleu Oleander: amazing what the mind is capable of
Bleu Oleander: how hallucinations come in many varieties and how real they seem
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the difference between a hallucination and any other way of viewing the world?
Aphrodite Macbain: how do we know the difference?
Bleu Oleander: well, one of the main differences is that hallucinations are not willed
Bleu Oleander: just pop up
Bleu Oleander: and seem real
Bleu Oleander: seem in the world
Bleu Oleander: not in your mind
Bleu Oleander: different than dreams
Aphrodite Macbain: but everything is in our minds
Bleu Oleander: but we don't always feel that
Eliza Madrigal: we fill in so much of our experience unknowingly it is amazing we ever seem to communicate with one another :)
Bleu Oleander: we don't consciously feel that we create our perceptions
Bleu Oleander: we feel everything is like it is
Aphrodite Macbain: no that's why I wonder whethr everything we see is a hallucination!
druth Vlodovic: if you can imagine someone else seeing it too then you can confirm that it is real
Eliza Madrigal: and what about that we read so much we don't realize we read? body language, etc....
Aphrodite Macbain: yes unconsciously reading others
Bleu Oleander: we can communicate because essentially our brains are built the same way so we "see" things similarly with some subtle differences
Eliza Madrigal: using the same basic viewer
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: some having added more attachments than others? heheh
Bleu Oleander: even different sl viewers "see" essentially the same images
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal nods
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :) guardian meeting time, ty Bleu and everyone
Bleu Oleander: so perhaps time for the Guardian mtg?
Aphrodite Macbain: time to head to the hall
druth Vlodovic: think I'll stay for the bell first :)
Bleu Oleander: thanks all
druth Vlodovic: see you there
Bleu Oleander: fun conversation!
druth Vlodovic: bye bleu,or her doppler :)
Bleu Oleander: :)) bye druth
Bleu Oleander: take care