2012.12.28 19:00 - Living past death

The Guardian for this meeting was druth Vlodovic. The comments are by druth Vlodovic.

Catrinamonblue Resident: solitude and loneliness is the topic :)
druth Vlodovic: apt
Catrinamonblue Resident: are we lonely together :)
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: loneliness is a mood isn't it?
Catrinamonblue Resident: http://aliainstitute.org/blog/2012/1...lone-together/
Catrinamonblue Resident: the article from the guardian session

Catrinamonblue Resident: "Solitude does not necessarily mean living apart from others; rather, it means never living apart from one’s self"
Catrinamonblue Resident: Having a family and job and obligations means that getting away by yourself is sometime impossible to do
Catrinamonblue Resident: For myself I find moments of solitude within the busy framework of life.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Like taking a bubble bath :)

Catrinamonblue Resident: hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Catrina, Druth :)
druth Vlodovic: hey eliza, I was just reading an article cat put up
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Catrinamonblue Resident: the one posted in the guardian session
Catrinamonblue Resident: 19:01] Catrinamonblue: http://aliainstitute.org/blog/2012/1...lone-together/
druth Vlodovic: http://aliainstitute.org/blog/2012/1...lone-together/
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, great! yes wonderful page
druth Vlodovic: snap
Eliza Madrigal: thank you both snapping turtles
druth Vlodovic: I'd never snap a turtle
Eliza Madrigal: aligator snapping turtles are long snouted... when they peek their heads up they look just like tiny aligators ^^
druth Vlodovic: it equates solitude with being present and aware of the self
druth Vlodovic: neat
Eliza Madrigal: so a stable position?
druth Vlodovic: is that stable?
druth Vlodovic: I've met people who seemed wholly present in the moment, I'm not sure I'd describe them as stable :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles

solid and open
Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking of the phrase "solid and open" to describe someone who is abundantly available
druth Vlodovic listens
Eliza Madrigal: having a kind of stability in their own sense of self or core
Eliza Madrigal: maybe so secure they can lose it once in a while
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: what do you mean when you describe someone wholly present in the moment?
druth Vlodovic: I suppose if you know what generates your actions then you can let it run free
druth Vlodovic: without concern for past or present
druth Vlodovic: er, future
druth Vlodovic: or the present sometimes :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I'm quite struck by the portion of the article that speaks of sitting with a dying person ... that one learns they can't solve, but honor the mystery
Eliza Madrigal: many things are like that
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
druth Vlodovic: hey bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu!
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu
druth Vlodovic: have you ever sat with a dying person?
Eliza Madrigal: not at the moment of death, but yes with people who have had terminal diagnoses and struggles
Bleu Oleander: I have
druth Vlodovic: perhaps your experiences were different from mine
Eliza Madrigal listens
Bleu Oleander: what article are you talking about?
druth Vlodovic: http://aliainstitute.org/blog/2012/1...lone-together/
Bleu Oleander: ty :)
Wol Euler: evening all, sorry I'm late
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
druth Vlodovic: I was rather too upset to gain any insights from the experience
druth Vlodovic: hey wol
Eliza Madrigal: even in retrospect?
druth Vlodovic: just regret
Eliza Madrigal nods.... I'm sorry
Wol Euler listens.
druth Vlodovic: afterwards I had my kids to care for, so that helped focus me
druth Vlodovic: what about you guys?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevenaia :)
druth Vlodovic: hey steve
Bleu Oleander: hiya steve :)
druth Vlodovic: we're sort of comparing death watch experiences
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: wow
stevenaia Michinaga: lag
Wol Euler: I've never had that experience (yet)
Wol Euler: hello stevie
Eliza Madrigal: well it comes from the Alone Together page Eos shared at the guardian session...

stevenaia Michinaga: I have to rescue a noob friend, brb
druth Vlodovic: good luck :)

Bleu's mom

Bleu Oleander: I was with my mother when she died
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Bleu, how difficult
Bleu Oleander: yes
Wol Euler listens.
Bleu Oleander: it was suggested to me ...
Bleu Oleander: that I tell her it was ok to die ...
Bleu Oleander: I did
Bleu Oleander: and she died right after that
Bleu Oleander: amazing experience
Eliza Madrigal: that's beautiful
Wol Euler gives your hand a squeeze
Catrinamonblue Resident: hugs
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: was really quite something actually
Bleu Oleander: to witness the very moment
Bleu Oleander: when someone is there and then is not
Bleu Oleander: I was up all night after that
Bleu Oleander: powerful experience
Eliza Madrigal: privelege
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: yes
druth Vlodovic: powerful in what way?
Bleu Oleander: powerful in the way it made me feel
Bleu Oleander: i've never experienced anything that intense before
Bleu Oleander: in a way I felt part of myself slip away
Bleu Oleander: we are our memories and the memories of others
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: my mother was a witness to my life in a sense ... as the witnesses to our lives die they take their memories of us with them
Eliza Madrigal: oh, goodness... profound *
Bleu Oleander: can make you doubt some of your own history
Wol Euler nods.

Eliza Madrigal: hearing this... about permission... brings me to consider that we are really not 'our own' or on our own

advent clarity

Wol Euler: hello clarity, take a seat
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Clarity, lovely name
Bleu Oleander: hi Clarity
stevenaia Michinaga: this is my RL friend, new to SL
Eliza Madrigal: welcome
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting name you chose
ClarityCa Resident: Hi everyone
Bleu Oleander: nice ... welcome
Wol Euler: wow, one day old. welcome to SL
Catrinamonblue Resident: Welcome Clarity :)
druth Vlodovic: ah,welcome to SL
stevenaia Michinaga: she ahs that new car look
stevenaia Michinaga: *has
druth Vlodovic: we record the chat and post it on a website
Bleu Oleander: :)
ClarityCa Resident: thanks everyone. I'm happy to be here!
Wol Euler: that fresh "new avatar" smell
druth Vlodovic: do we have your permission for that clarity?
Eliza Madrigal smiles
ClarityCa Resident: yes
ClarityCa Resident: you have my permission
druth Vlodovic: ty :)
ClarityCa Resident: :) you're welcome
Eliza Madrigal: thank you for sharing that with us Bleu, feel honored
stevenaia Michinaga: I think this may be the first time she Sat :)
Bleu Oleander: yw
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes thank you Bleu
Bleu Oleander: wasn't expecting that :)
Wol Euler: yes, thank you Bleu, that was very moving
Eliza Madrigal: ((((Bleu)))))
Bleu Oleander: (((hugs)))
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sitting is tricky, Clarity, you did very well :)
druth Vlodovic: I'm glad it was such a positive experience for you
druth Vlodovic: or had positive aspects
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Paradise :)
Wol Euler: hello para, nice to see you again :)
ClarityCa Resident: finding the area was tricky, but stevenaia got me here
Bleu Oleander: don't misunderstand me ... positive in one sense ... devistating in another
Bleu Oleander: hi Para :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
druth Vlodovic: yes, sorry
Paradise Tennant: smiles waves hugs all round :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: we've gotten on to the topic of sitting with those who are passing

Pets

Bleu Oleander: being with pets as they die can be quite a moving experience also
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes,
Paradise Tennant: hmm nods ton glen
Catrinamonblue Resident: we had to put down our 16 year old cat a few months ago
Paradise Tennant: oh so sorry cat
Bleu Oleander: hard to do
Catrinamonblue Resident: it was very hard
Eliza Madrigal: very sorry to hear... hard yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: but also I was glad too
Catrinamonblue Resident: she would be in no more pain
Bleu Oleander: can be a beautiful experience though
Catrinamonblue Resident: and the vet was awesome with us and her
Bleu Oleander: sometimes I wish it was as available to people too
druth Vlodovic: it is hard to know that their death is a result of allowing responsibility and compassion to overwhelm personal need
Eliza Madrigal nods Bleu
Eliza Madrigal nods... my dear friend lost her family dog of 10 years two days ago.. today she told me of a dream with him that began to help release some of the guilt she was feeling
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: we had such a lovely experience with one of our dogs .... very peaceful and touching
Eliza Madrigal: my first thought was "that's it, no dogs" but then I thought.... small of me.. fearful of love
Wol Euler nods to Eliza
Bleu Oleander: have always gotten another very soon after :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Paradise Tennant: yes have to live whole hearted .. that means I guess embracing the hard with the wonderful
Eliza Madrigal: staying open hearted
Bleu Oleander: actually no cure like a puppy :)
Eliza Madrigal: or a few?
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Catrinamonblue Resident: we still have 3 cats chasing around the house :) they bring happiness to me
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bleu Oleander: :)
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: sometimes think that those we love and who love us never really go that far .. there is like a resonate envelope .. that stays :)
Paradise Tennant: love connects
Paradise Tennant: in a way that .. I think is impossible to diminish
Wol Euler nods.
Paradise Tennant: it leaves kind of an echo :)
Eliza Madrigal: open strings
Paradise Tennant: smiles at eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: or an imprinted connection
Bleu Oleander: interesting in Oliver Sacks new book he talks about hallucinations one can have after losing someone close to you
Paradise Tennant: yes eos used a lovely term last week Karass
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes... I remember that word from the phrase "karass and grandfaloon"
Paradise Tennant: sorry karasse
Bleu Oleander: Vonnegut
Eliza Madrigal: Scott Peck too, talked about this in that first famous book he wrote... hm remembering name
Bleu Oleander: Cat's Cradle :)
Paradise Tennant: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=karass
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Catrinamonblue Resident: reading
Bleu Oleander: great book actually ... re-read it recently :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles maybe I will kindle it not sure I have read it
Bleu Oleander: if you like Vonnegut ... an acquired taste for some :)
Eliza Madrigal thinks Bleu must be a speed reader
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Bleu Oleander: at least feel like one hehe
Bleu Oleander: catching up :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: interesting idea though.... it is close to sangha perhaps
Bleu Oleander: related :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Clarity and I will be going, thanks for helping her get addicted
Wol Euler: there are people who keep on returning, somehow ...
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: nice to meet you, clarity, take care
ClarityCa Resident: yes thank you! I''ll be back
Eliza Madrigal waves. Nice to meet you Clarity
Eliza Madrigal: bye Stevie
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Clarity Steve
Paradise Tennant: nite nite stev a pleasure to meet you clarity :))
Bleu Oleander: bye have fun:)
Wol Euler: if you have any quesitons, feel free to IM me
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: btw, speaking of books ... just listened to a wonderful interview with Junot Diaz ...
Bleu Oleander: http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-s...ry-of-america/
Bleu Oleander: worth listening to if you have a chance
Paradise Tennant: jots it down
Eliza Madrigal: ah, great.... should be tivo'ed if Moyers :)
druth Vlodovic: 'night all
Bleu Oleander: "This is how you lose her" ... fabulous book!
Wol Euler: goodnight! take care
Eliza Madrigal: Night Druth, thank you
Bleu Oleander: nite Druth :)
Paradise Tennant: nite nite druth
Eliza Madrigal: like the premise... what he says about America becoming a new country
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: importance of community
Bleu Oleander: "small megaphones"
Eliza Madrigal: seems true... there's some feeling that the little hole poking that's been going on in the understructure wears away a bit at the facade
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: America is more than the success of individuals
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bleu Oleander: pride in community, civic mindedness is America too
Catrinamonblue Resident: night all :)
Paradise Tennant: nitenite cat
Wol Euler: goodnight catrina, take care
Bleu Oleander: nite Cat :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night Catrina

Speaking of open heartedness...
Eliza Madrigal: my daughter and I found ourselves crying and hugging a waitress today... still don't know her name...
Eliza Madrigal: nor she ours
Paradise Tennant: listens
Bleu Oleander listens too
Eliza Madrigal: we were having a heart-to-heart and lightly tearing up.... both of us...
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: and when the waitress came over she didn't see but we both laughed and my daughter sort of half apologized and said we were making a scene
Eliza Madrigal: which touched the waitress... remembering her mom...
Eliza Madrigal: who is at a distance now
Eliza Madrigal: so daugher asks for a hug...
Bleu Oleander: awww nice
Eliza Madrigal: and then everyone is crying... then the waitress asks me for a hug
Eliza Madrigal: haha.. it was quite an overspill moment
Wol Euler: awwwwww
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: but beautiful.. strangers...
Paradise Tennant: love group hugs
Eliza Madrigal: ♥ ♥ ♥
Eliza Madrigal: ♥ ♥ ♥
Eliza Madrigal just realizing Bleu is wearing her bird hat ^.^
Paradise Tennant: great hat
Bleu Oleander: :))
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Wol Euler looks
Wol Euler: oh wow :)
Bleu Oleander: has a little bird movie in it :)
Wol Euler: oh gods yes :) heheheheh
Bleu Oleander: :))
Eliza Madrigal will slip out after the bell
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Bleu, Friends
Bleu Oleander: ok nite Eliza ... take care :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care, be happy - and gentle with yourself
Paradise Tennant: nitenite eliza
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: think I will say good nite too .. getting sleepy :))
Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams you two :))
Bleu Oleander: me too :)
Wol Euler: goodnight para, goodnight bleu
Wol Euler: sweet dreams
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves
Wol Euler: enjoy the weekend
Bleu Oleander: u 2
Bleu Oleander: nite nite