2011.07.12 13:00 - Helping Others Without Even Realizing It

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. FCSeeker and Korel were present almost from the beginning, and Milakel joined as near the very end.

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Fc!!
FcSeeker Resident: Hey Bruce :)
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: How's my cuddly buddy today?
FcSeeker Resident: having some worry for special friends suffering
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
FcSeeker Resident: hoping things to be well within you
Bruce Mowbray: I hope it's not too serious. . . (whatever that might mean).
Bruce Mowbray: I am doing a lot better today, thanks.
FcSeeker Resident: would you like to share ?
FcSeeker Resident: that is so wonderful to hear
FcSeeker Resident: gives me happiness :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yesterday -- Well, let's just say yesterday was one of those rough days.
Bruce Mowbray: Today is a lot better.
FcSeeker Resident: good
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: It's interesting to watch how my moods connect with the physical stuff....
Bruce Mowbray: and how I detach from identifying with either of those.
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Bruce Mowbray: sometimes it seems to take me to a different "place" ------ the detaching, I mean.
Bruce Mowbray: a better place.
FcSeeker Resident: understand that very well
Bruce Mowbray: although I definitely do not recommend it, suffering has a way of reshaping our concepts of "identity."
FcSeeker Resident: this time I suffer because I don't know any good advice to give
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I do understand that.
Bruce Mowbray: But received advice also requires that the recipient be ready to hear it.
Bruce Mowbray: So, perhaps it's best just to be your best - PRESENT - self -- and let things happen as they will.
FcSeeker Resident: I don't mean to say that I would like much to advise anybody...do not much like that even when asked...
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I totally agree with you  -- "advice" so often seems to come from preferences, opinions, judgments (the advisor's, I mean.)
Bruce Mowbray: so it's often really not about the person being advised at all -- It's all about the advisor's issues.
FcSeeker Resident: that is much so yes
FcSeeker Resident: wanna share the reasons of my friend to suffer ?
Bruce Mowbray: When I was hospitalized for ten lays last month -- I really upset some of my friends because I was not able to tell them where I was.. and they worried... understandably so.
Bruce Mowbray: But when one is actually dying --. . . . . well, a social agenda was the last thing on my mind.
FcSeeker Resident: understand that also very well
FcSeeker Resident: but you decided to continue :)
FcSeeker Resident: thank you so much for that
Bruce Mowbray: I feel compassion for your suffering -- and for your friend's suffering (which are [yours and theirs] actually very closely involved with each other, I feel) ---
FcSeeker Resident: and I sure am not the only one who wants to thank you for that
Bruce Mowbray: But I also feel that each of our "paths" is (in some way) perfect.
FcSeeker Resident: it could be said that she is my daughter
Bruce Mowbray: So," I release you to your perfect path" means -- that I accept that each of us has "stuff' to do -- and that I might not fully understand what your "stuff" is . . .
Bruce Mowbray: but I do release you (and everyone else) to Do what needs to be done -- on your own terms -- with total freedom and no expectations or judgments from me.

--BELL--

FcSeeker Resident: that is not any easy to understand fully that what's the true purpose to do or not to do
Bruce Mowbray: Family involvements are often more difficult, of course.
FcSeeker Resident: and that is the way how we think; this my close friend and I
FcSeeker Resident: that we do not believe in judgment and punishment
Bruce Mowbray secretly feels that whatever we can "fully understand" might not be worth understanding at all -- so no-knowing is also a fine "place" to hang out.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- there are no judgments and no punishments -- totally agree with you there.
FcSeeker Resident: but when somebody hurts himself again and again and demands forgiveness and help without doing nothing himself....
Bruce Mowbray: I am not clear about whether there is even cause and effect.
FcSeeker Resident: and that is the main question...
Bruce Mowbray: yes, very difficult to understand that one -- self-harming.
FcSeeker Resident: when help is used to keep the problem, one should stop the helping
FcSeeker Resident: but how can one do that when there's own son in a question...
Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes perhaps the "best" thing we can do for them as well as for ourselves is to bless and release them to their own highest wisdom.
FcSeeker Resident: I have no other idea but to live each moment as they come and make the choices in the moment
Bruce Mowbray: Would they even be able to "hear' OUR wisdom, after all? I don't know -- Maybe they could.
Bruce Mowbray: You might ask him if he COULD hear your wisdom....  But I don't know here....   This is out of my ball park, as they say.
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes; in this 'case' that is that these two persons who gives the worry to my friend, do not hear her
Bruce Mowbray: So -- now we have a third party?
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes; she's got sorrows for her son and her bf
FcSeeker Resident: for years already
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm..
Bruce Mowbray: Sounds like a whole lot of suffering going on there.
Bruce Mowbray: Do YOU need this in your own path?
FcSeeker Resident: well...I have been taught already long time that I should think myself more...but...
FcSeeker Resident: things seems to turn out more attacking the more I try to take time to myself and so
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Fc, you have MY permission to regard yourself as the most important person in your world -- Just don't get stuck in the I-Process stuff. . . . (the ego-cherishing stuff).
FcSeeker Resident: lol
Bruce Mowbray: You have a generous and compassionate soul, so getting stuck is not very likely for you.
FcSeeker Resident: have not time to that :)
Bruce Mowbray: time?
FcSeeker Resident: the ego-cherishing stuff
FcSeeker Resident: my time normally goes just to helping people
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- NONE of us have time for self-cherishing -- but not too many realize that, I'm afraid.
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Korel
Bruce Mowbray: the whole culture seems geared to promoting self-cherishing.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Korel.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Bruce Mowbray: Does the wind come right behind the rain where you are, Korel?
Korel Laloix: Let me think what you mean.
Korel Laloix: It is always windy here.
Bruce Mowbray: (in the song from the musical OKLAHOMA -- 'the wind comes right behind the rain' -- but in Ohio the wind comes first.
Korel Laloix: But we get wind before the rain.... as the bottom falls out of the clouds which lets the rain fall.
Bruce Mowbray: just a way of greeting you ----
Bruce Mowbray: trying to be original.
Korel Laloix: lol... I have never actually seen it.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: I know a little of the music thought.
Korel Laloix: though.
FcSeeker Resident: wind is such a great thing
Bruce Mowbray: We did OKLAHOMA in high school back in 1959.
Bruce Mowbray: wind is wonderful!
Bruce Mowbray: refreshing and cleansing.
FcSeeker Resident: yessssssssssssss
Bruce Mowbray: afk for a second, ok?
FcSeeker Resident: ok
Korel Laloix: I do like a good breeze, but not when I am running.... that sucks.
Bruce Mowbray: back.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yeah -- I hate it when I'm out walking and the wind blows against me.
Bruce Mowbray: especially if it's a cold wind.
Bruce Mowbray: I turn around and come right back home.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I hope that you will not think this is too personal, Korel, but I thought of you last Wednesday afternoon . .. around child abuse issues.
FcSeeker Resident: wb
Bruce Mowbray: ty.
Korel Laloix: Sorry you were thinking of that.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it was quite supportive, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: so, a very good thing for me.
Korel Laloix: Not usually an uplifting thing to be around.
Bruce Mowbray: Do you want to hear about it?
Korel Laloix: OH OK>
Korel Laloix: Please.
FcSeeker Resident: please
Bruce Mowbray: well, I'd been ordered by my doctor to have an MRI on my brain.
Bruce Mowbray: and I didn't know what that involved...
Bruce Mowbray: so when I got to the MRI --- the technician explained that my head would be inside this TINY TINY TINY cylinder for about 30 minutes.
Bruce Mowbray: and I suddenly flashed back to when I was seven years old
Korel Laloix: MRIs are odd.
Bruce Mowbray: and my mother used to tie me up -- because I was hyperactive...
Bruce Mowbray: and I immediately began to cry.  a 68-year-old man - standing there in the hallway crying because he was feeling seven years old again.
Korel Laloix: Ah.. ouch.
Bruce Mowbray: right there -- in front of the tech and his secretary.
Korel Laloix: Sounds upsetting.
Bruce Mowbray: I was seven years old again.
Bruce Mowbray: so -- The MRI tech was so very compassionate--
Korel Laloix: wow.. go on please.
Bruce Mowbray: took me into the MRI room and explained about everything.
Bruce Mowbray: and how i could stop the whole process at any time.
Bruce Mowbray: and -- I remembered YOU, Korel!
Bruce Mowbray: and that helped.
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Bruce Mowbray: anyway, I put on a blindfold so I couldn't even see the cylinder (which was TINY TINY TINY) --
Bruce Mowbray: and my dog and I had a wonderful hike in the farm field under the stars for the next half hour!!
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: I love the way you handled that.
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Korel Laloix: Difficult for some to understand.
Bruce Mowbray: afterwards the tech said that the majority of folks have trouble with this (claustrophobia)-- but not for the same reasons that I did.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, unless you've been there yourself -- it IS difficult to understand --
Bruce Mowbray: but YOU helped me.
Bruce Mowbray: so I owe you some thanks for being courageous enough to tell your whole story.
Korel Laloix: I am so glad.. that makes me feel good in a way I can't describe.
Korel Laloix: You are very welcome.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Korel Laloix: I like to think some things happen for a reason, and maybe sometimes our troubles help others.
Bruce Mowbray: Although we often feel like we're alone, we are not truly alone, you know.
Bruce Mowbray: Fc and I were just using the expression "perfect path" -- and perhaps "things happen for a reason" is part of that.
FcSeeker Resident: I agree with you Bruce completely
Korel Laloix: Perfect path?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, when we love someone and we can see that they are suffering ---
Bruce Mowbray: but there seems to be nothing that we can do --
Bruce Mowbray: neither help them nor give advice, etc.
FcSeeker Resident: we still can help with love
Bruce Mowbray: then perhaps all we CAN do is to release them to their "perfect path."
Bruce Mowbray: and trust that their own best wisdom will guide them -- even better than we could ourselves.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, we can love them.  Thanks, Fc.
Korel Laloix: The ability to just sit by and be there for someone is often the most difficult thing you can do for someone.
Bruce Mowbray: and releasing them is an expression of that love.
Bruce Mowbray: I totally agree, Korel.
Bruce Mowbray: Simply BEING with someone else -- and not pushing our own preferences, opinions, and agenda --This is a wonderful gift.
FcSeeker Resident: somewhat more difficult when you cannot be present in physic...
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: can you say more about that Fc?
FcSeeker Resident: it sure is possible still to be felt yes
FcSeeker Resident: like my this special friend does feel me
Bruce Mowbray: (Like I felt Korel's wisdom when I was in the MRI.... although she was not physically present.)
FcSeeker Resident: how she feels that I hold her on my arms...
FcSeeker Resident: yes
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Korel Laloix: My wisdom.. smiles to herself..
Bruce Mowbray smiles back, with gratitude.
Korel Laloix: Never been accused of that before.
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Korel Laloix: But thanks.
Bruce Mowbray: it's probably best that we not realize how WISE we really are!
FcSeeker Resident: hmmmmmmmm
Bruce Mowbray: we might get "stuck" on ourselves.
Bruce Mowbray: and then think we needed to start a new religion based on our wisdom, or something like that.
Korel Laloix: But realizing how wise we aren't is probably something good to put some time on.
FcSeeker Resident: maybe you are now talking about such persons who are not wise at all...

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: absolutely agrees with Korel on focusing on "how wise we aren't" - - - - but just for a while. -- No need to go into self-abusing with it (as I have done most of my life.)
FcSeeker Resident: to know a drop of the ocean can be great thing
Korel Laloix: I think it is worth awareness..... but not ... there is a word I am looking for.
Korel Laloix: Loitering maybe?
Bruce Mowbray: You know, playing the role of "victim" (even a victim to my own self-abuse) is a sort of ego's heroic role to play...
Bruce Mowbray: The ocean drop is also infinite.
FcSeeker Resident: could be
Bruce Mowbray: "Heroic" is an I-Process - - - going nowhere.
FcSeeker Resident: I'd say that to stay aware that there is much more to learn than what we already know is not to abuse, but to be also honest to the wisdom we have
Bruce Mowbray: modesty - humility -- The cosmos is large - - and we are one with all of it.
FcSeeker Resident: I also think that in case we are not honest to the wisdom we already have, we cannot use it for help to anybody...
Bruce Mowbray: Agree, Fc.
Korel Laloix: What do you mean Fc?
Bruce Mowbray: but again, it's sometimes a question of whether they can "have" that wisdom.
FcSeeker Resident: that one must not either lower one's self and good things within 'it'
Bruce Mowbray: and also whether our "wisdom" is not just a tangle of our own preferences, opinions, and judgments..
Bruce Mowbray: . . . in which case it probably wouldn't be very wise anyway (although it might feel like it is).
Bruce Mowbray: no "lowering' of self permitted.  ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Affirm your OWN perfect path at the same time you bless and release others to their perfect path.
milakel Resident: hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Mila!
FcSeeker Resident: hi milakel
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Bruce Mowbray: You still have a 4th of July sparkler!!!
milakel Resident: :)
milakel Resident: that was from woly's av rezday celebration yesterday :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyyy!
milakel Resident: hehe
Bruce Mowbray: Happy REZ DAY, Woly!
milakel Resident: Korel the tough biker girl :)
Bruce Mowbray: (plus one).
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: Biker girl without a bike.
milakel Resident: at least that's the image in my head :)
Bruce Mowbray: Korel gave me a fine gift this week -- without even knowing that she'd done it --
milakel Resident: oh, what is it?
Bruce Mowbray: but you'll need to read the log of this session to find out what it was.
milakel Resident: ah :)
Bruce Mowbray: Just a memory of things she said  that helped me through a difficult experience this week..
milakel Resident: that's nice, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: we've already discussed it pretty thoroughly.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I was very grateful to her.
Bruce Mowbray: and still am.
milakel Resident: i think we often posses ability to make gifts without knowing
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes!
Bruce Mowbray: How true!
milakel Resident: something of little value to us (emotionally or otherwise) but a big relief for someone else
Korel Laloix: Glad to help.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Nothing we do is ever "lost"
Bruce Mowbray: especially if it is a positive thought or action.
milakel Resident: conservation of energy :)
Bruce Mowbray: yep.
Bruce Mowbray: or even creation of more energy.
milakel Resident: impossible
milakel Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps the redirection of energy into some more positive purpose.
milakel Resident: well, given our current model :)
Bruce Mowbray: the focusing of energy that seems "lost" but now realizes it has more important work to do.
milakel Resident: well said :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) ty.
Bruce Mowbray: Panda - at my left - is giving me good hints.
Bruce Mowbray: Folks -- I hate to run off --
milakel Resident: cute baby panda
milakel Resident: nice to see you, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: but I need to do some RL stuff at the top of the hour.
Bruce Mowbray: So I thank you all for being here and

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: wish you a happy and safe evening.
Korel Laloix: Ciao
FcSeeker Resident: was so GTSY Bruce
milakel Resident: thank you :)
FcSeeker Resident: have good time
milakel Resident: :)