2011.07.14 01:00 - Dangerous Places

The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Dash Earthboy, FcSeeker Resident, Stevenia Michinaga, and myself

Holidays time:

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Zen
Zen Arado: Hello Fc :)
Zen Arado: how are you?
FcSeeker Resident: I'm o.k.
FcSeeker Resident: how are you ?
Zen Arado: I'm ok too :)
Zen Arado: it's good weather here for a change
Zen Arado: sunny and warm
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
FcSeeker Resident: same here
FcSeeker Resident: it's been more than hot, but now it's bright and only warm
Zen Arado: I push myself around the marina (I ive beside a marina) for exercise
FcSeeker Resident: :)
Zen Arado: it only gets to about 20 C here
Zen Arado: it's good living beside the sea
FcSeeker Resident: thinking the living art you have around :)
FcSeeker Resident: yes
Zen Arado: it never gets too hot or cold
Zen Arado: I don't paint the boats much though
Zen Arado: get tired of seeing boats
FcSeeker Resident: kk
Zen Arado: see them every day
Zen Arado: do you go on holiday?
Zen Arado: to Spain or somewhere like that?
FcSeeker Resident: in the city where I live the prices of the houses near by the harbourg are more expencive for the view than elswhere
FcSeeker Resident: ah no
FcSeeker Resident: I do not know much of the holidays...
Zen Arado: yes same here
Zen Arado: I live in an apartment and they are more expensive because there is a nice view
Zen Arado: but there are many shops and restaurants around too and that is important for me
FcSeeker Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I don't go far these days either
Zen Arado: places aren't accessible enough for me
Zen Arado: too much hassle
Zen Arado: I can be happy without going somewhere
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Zen Arado: it is like being in Spain here if the weather is nice
FcSeeker Resident: aha
Zen Arado: better really cos it isn't too hot
FcSeeker Resident: I have learned that it's more easy to win cold than hot
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: you put more clothes on
Zen Arado: can't do much if it is too hot
FcSeeker Resident: and think warmly
FcSeeker Resident: loving thoughts are warm
Zen Arado: yes:)
Zen Arado: I was very cold at my last Zen retreat
FcSeeker Resident: oh
Zen Arado: my teacher told me to concentrate on my breathing at the abdomen
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Zen Arado: my legs get very cold
FcSeeker Resident: did such breathing help you out ?
Zen Arado: I have lost so much muscle
Zen Arado: maybe a little
Zen Arado: I have to sit on my wheelchair
FcSeeker Resident: understand
Zen Arado: if you sit on a cushion like we do here your legs are close to your body and it keeps them warm
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes

Relocating from danger:

Zen Arado: Hi Dash :)
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all
Zen Arado: you're up early
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Dash
FcSeeker Resident: how are you ?
Dash Earthboy: yeh
Dash Earthboy: too warm to sleep
Dash Earthboy: heat advisory in effect for another hour
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Zen Arado: hey it's warm here too 17 C :)
Dash Earthboy: :) @ Zen
Zen Arado: it got to 20 C yesterday
Dash Earthboy: those are my kind of numbers Zen :)
Zen Arado: warm enough for me too
Dash Earthboy: Hadn't see you Fc at a 1 AM session before?
Zen Arado: now if we had a little more of that and less cloud and rain it would be perfect
FcSeeker Resident: have attended at this hour also few times
Dash Earthboy: overcast skies Zen? & Rain?
Dash Earthboy: cool Fc
Dash Earthboy: well I'm glad y'all are here
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Dash Earthboy: I came Mon or Tue and was all by myself :(
Zen Arado: yeh me too
Zen Arado: don't get so many at this time of day
Dash Earthboy: yah
Zen Arado: hard to get guardians to fill in too
Dash Earthboy: so I've seen :(
FcSeeker Resident: brb
Dash Earthboy: i would apply to be guardian but shouldn't even be here in my home now
Dash Earthboy: so access to internet will interupt participating at all when I depart
Zen Arado: goig somewhere interestig?
Zen Arado: drat and my typing was going well
Dash Earthboy: no, it's not a pleasure trip...more an act of desperation
Dash Earthboy: i am relocating away from hostile territory here
Zen Arado: somewhere cooler?
Dash Earthboy: but don't know where I'll find the new community I seek
Dash Earthboy: it's difficult to put it all in a few words
Zen Arado: think we have to be at peace with ourselves first
Zen Arado: first priority
Zen Arado: the rest follows
Zen Arado: or it doesn't matter so much then
Dash Earthboy: it might matter more if you actually faced physical & other danger by staying where you're at
FcSeeker Resident: b
Zen Arado: ah yes ok
Zen Arado: physical threats can't be ignored
Dash Earthboy: this i why I have difficulty being patient when people start quoting some Zen philosophy out of context I find myself in
Zen Arado: people get petrol bombs thrown through their windows here
Dash Earthboy: even the Buddhist monks responded to attacks (?) during past few years...trying to rememberr the news
Zen Arado: yeh sorry
Zen Arado: shouldn't offer glib advice until you know the full circumstances ppl are in
Dash Earthboy: agreed
Dash Earthboy: Fc you've been quiet...'s up?
Dash Earthboy: Zen, I've had railroad bedrock and beer/soda bottles thrown through my bedroom windows here
FcSeeker Resident: so many thoughts goes through my mind listening to you
Zen Arado: I have seen a lot of violence here in N.Ireland the last 30 years
Dash Earthboy: yes Zen

Justice and revenge:

Zen Arado: I most admire people who forgive the terrorists who killed their sons or daughters
Zen Arado: revenge just begets more revenge and the whole cycle just continues
Zen Arado: tit for at killing they call that here
Zen Arado: tit for tat
Dash Earthboy: instead of revenge I have always sought justice, not just for myself, for the common good
Zen Arado: ok
FcSeeker Resident: so many people are still like cats
Zen Arado: I often notice that when relatives ask for justice...justice means revenge
Zen Arado: you agree?
FcSeeker Resident: they honour only the stronger power
Dash Earthboy: yes Fc
Zen Arado: yes
Dash Earthboy: i hear ya Zen
Dash Earthboy: but I hate semantic games like that
Dash Earthboy: "What is justice?" is a spin-off of "What is truth?"
Zen Arado: but it's deeper than that maybe
Dash Earthboy: we are born knowing right from wrong
FcSeeker Resident: just came to my mind one girl that I by accedent hit badly because she ripped my clothing and I just meant to push her off, but hit her nose and it started to bleed (in school long long time ago)
Dash Earthboy: listens to Fc
FcSeeker Resident: but she stopped to torture me for that
Dash Earthboy: torture?
FcSeeker Resident: and even the teacher who came soon didn't say a word...
Dash Earthboy: teacher accepted fighting?
FcSeeker Resident: she was such girl that tortured many students in the class mocking and pushing her face to others face and shouting and so
FcSeeker Resident: that teacher was very wise
Dash Earthboy: sounds like a bully
Zen Arado: yeh
FcSeeker Resident: he saw that it's better to let us to handle the issue
FcSeeker Resident: he understood that there had been long 'fight' before that happening
FcSeeker Resident: that girl never tortured anybody after that
Dash Earthboy: *wonders how this relates to Ireland conflict?
Dash Earthboy: so your assault Fc ended the bullying?
FcSeeker Resident: ah...that special happening just occured to my mind thinking them people who are like cats that way

Right and Wrong:

Zen Arado: think right and wrong values can be set up by the environment we live in too
FcSeeker Resident: as I had just ignored her untill that
FcSeeker Resident: I think Zen that to be a fact
Zen Arado: I have seen so many young men do awful things because they thought it was for a United Ireland
Zen Arado: or the opposite
Zen Arado: yes Fc
Zen Arado: people can take wrong meanings from actions or things we say too
Dash Earthboy: it is against the corruption of right or wrong values that my role models fought
Zen Arado: right and wrong have a context
FcSeeker Resident: people take so much such rights to themself which are only illusion...sadly so many of them can fight up to the war for that illusion...
Dash Earthboy: the essence of right & wrong has one context: treat others as you would be treated (within the relative context)
Zen Arado: I noticed a book about Socrates on Amazon yesterday Dash
Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0...pf_rd_i=468294
FcSeeker Resident: have often thought those countries which do not even have the army and they live in peace still
FcSeeker Resident: meaning that they are not attacked by other countries
FcSeeker Resident: that why is it that it is not so in all of the countries...
FcSeeker Resident: and come to the thought that it's because of money
Zen Arado: wish I knew Fc
Dash Earthboy: yes Fc, but I think you're giving good examples of greed & pride effecting what is called "right" or "wrong" in different contexts
Dash Earthboy: that doesn't change the essence of right & wrong
Zen Arado: the golden rule can have exceptions too Dash
Dash Earthboy: just the labels
Zen Arado: a bully might expect others to bully him/her
Zen Arado: there's another principle called the 'Harm Principle'
Zen Arado: do what you like so long as you don't do others any harm
Zen Arado: but that breaks down too
Zen Arado: what constitutes harm?

'All you need is love... tough love'

Dash Earthboy: back in 1971 Joan Baez introduced us to the "Atrocity Level" influence on our values too
Zen Arado: remember the hippy values of the 60's and 70's
Zen Arado: all you need is love
Zen Arado: that didn;t last either
Dash Earthboy: they didn't grok "love"
Zen Arado: yeh hard love
Zen Arado: not some idealistic thing
Dash Earthboy: in "Guns of Will Sonnet" show, Will had to kill one of his sons to stop son from murdering others
Zen Arado: love each other is easy when you are young and attractive
Zen Arado: yeh that is tough love
Dash Earthboy: the show was about a family of gunfighters
Zen Arado: like the story in the Bible
Dash Earthboy: who used their talent to bring civility and justice to the West
Zen Arado: sacrificial love
Dash Earthboy: stopping the hurt
Dash Earthboy: harm
Zen Arado: not much love for old people in our society
Zen Arado: they don't get much respect either
FcSeeker Resident: so much lag of love all ower the world of human kind...
Dash Earthboy: I think one phrase that has stuck with me in deciding what & how to fight is "Think less on what you kill than on what you are allowing to live."
Zen Arado: put them away in a home and forget them
Dash Earthboy: yes, Zen
FcSeeker Resident: not so much support either to people to start to love each other more, but things which makes the to fight against each other

Feeding bears and dangerous places:

Dash Earthboy: I'm thinking of the attitude of Native American cultures
Dash Earthboy: where when a person, usually advanced age, could no longer contribute to the community
Dash Earthboy: could not be productive as well as teach
Dash Earthboy: they would go out and feed the bears
FcSeeker Resident: with their body ?
Zen Arado: with their own body?
FcSeeker Resident: Hello stevenaia
Dash Earthboy: the Jewish culture described in the Bible at least honors seniors for their wisdom
Dash Earthboy: hey stev
Zen Arado: Hi Steve :)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello egg
stevenaia Michinaga: morning
stevenaia Michinaga: (for me)
Dash Earthboy: likewise stev
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy
FcSeeker Resident: gtsy too :)
Dash Earthboy: :)
Zen Arado: Hi Egg
stevenaia Michinaga: woke up early, thought I'd say hello
Zen Arado: hope I don't have to do that Dash :)
Zen Arado: (feed my body to bears)
Dash Earthboy: So on the "all you need is love" idea, do you think it helps to know what "love" is?
Zen Arado: prefer a more comfortable exit
stevenaia Michinaga: Waves to observerm, misses him from 7:00 pm sessions
Dash Earthboy: i mean if that's all we need?
Dash Earthboy: i hear ya Zen
Dash Earthboy: but my trip may end up being just such an exit
Zen Arado: Hi observerm

Musical Instruments and heat:

Dash Earthboy: the major delay now is the extreme heat which can damage my tools that i work with
Zen Arado: that's a dangerous place you live Dash
Dash Earthboy: yes Zen
Dash Earthboy: and possibly more dangerous down the road
Dash Earthboy: or less
stevenaia Michinaga: you work with tools made of ice?
Dash Earthboy: no stev, music instruments
Dash Earthboy: and computers
stevenaia Michinaga: aww
Dash Earthboy: all of which can melt in the trunk of a car
Zen Arado: what kind of instruments Dash?
Dash Earthboy: or come undone from glue failure
Zen Arado: guitars?
FcSeeker Resident: Hi observer
Dash Earthboy: hey observm
Dash Earthboy: i'm taking 12-string acous/elec, 6-string elec guitars, autoharp, two Yamaha keyboards
Dash Earthboy: wood recorders (folk flutes), harmonicas, melodica
Dash Earthboy: and more
FcSeeker Resident: and laptop ?
Zen Arado: I have a classical guitar I bought in Australia in 1966
Dash Earthboy: yes Fc, and laptop :)
FcSeeker Resident: gooooooooood :))))))
Dash Earthboy: Zen I just sold my instructional nylon string guitar for just $50
Zen Arado: I am trying to play electric guitar recently
Dash Earthboy: that's the guitar I used to teach others
FcSeeker Resident: is that money much or little ?
Zen Arado: classical guitars can cost thousands
Dash Earthboy: the interior of a car in sun in only 80 degree weather can exceed 120
Zen Arado: yeh like Australia
Dash Earthboy: in closed trunk, temp is often higher still
Zen Arado: car like an oven
Dash Earthboy: Fc, it was worth about $200
FcSeeker Resident: you had must to sell it ?
Dash Earthboy: so that's been delaying my departure y'all
Dash Earthboy: the heat damage i'm avoiding
Dash Earthboy: in case I do find a nurturing community I can help
Dash Earthboy: or thrive in
Zen Arado: at least it is humid in Florida
Zen Arado: dry heat might be worse?
Zen Arado: or maybe the other way around
Dash Earthboy: humid heat warps things too
Zen Arado: Florida is the hottest place I ever was
Zen Arado: remember acres of black tarmac in Disneyworld in July heat

Acquiring junk and moving :

Dash Earthboy: i'm taking books, art, and other things because chances are everything left behind will be lost
Zen Arado: that was HOT
Dash Earthboy: my house is 3 bedroom/2 bath and stuffed to gills with makings of technology museum and collections of LPs, tapes & books
Dash Earthboy: i'm stuffing my car like pioneers stuffed their Conestoga wagons
Dash Earthboy: tools & keepsakes come first
Zen Arado: at least you haven't got old unsold paintings and art materials
Zen Arado: like me:)
Dash Earthboy: yes I do Zen
Zen Arado: oh :)
Dash Earthboy: yes
Zen Arado: sounds like you need a truck not a car
Dash Earthboy: for sure
Dash Earthboy: a mobile home :)
Zen Arado: one of those RV's like a bus
Dash Earthboy: but i only have an aged sedan that I can't even afford to maintain now
Dash Earthboy: gas is going on credit card
Dash Earthboy: so price of gas is also delaying departure somewhat
FcSeeker Resident: :(
Dash Earthboy: higher prices mean maxing out credit limit faster
Dash Earthboy: so true Fc :(
Dash Earthboy: as I said earlier, desperation
Zen Arado: how expensive is it?
Dash Earthboy: it?
Zen Arado: gas
Dash Earthboy: it just jumped 15 cents gallon here
Zen Arado: too expensive
Dash Earthboy: up to $3.65
Dash Earthboy: but we're lower than national average
FcSeeker Resident: the price sure is related
Dash Earthboy: and I'm heading in the direction of higher prices still
Zen Arado: a lire would cost that here
Dash Earthboy: yes Zen
Dash Earthboy: i long for the distances & lifestyle of Europe/Ireland
Dash Earthboy: no 100 miles commutes to work each day
Zen Arado: I don't have a car
Dash Earthboy: better still Zen :)
Dash Earthboy: i would rather not own car
Zen Arado: electric wheelchair
Dash Earthboy: nor need to
Zen Arado: pretty economical :)
Dash Earthboy: cool zen
Zen Arado: 15 miles on 1 charge :)
Dash Earthboy: sounds like one I got for my mother a long time ago :)
Zen Arado: but I depend on pplgiving me lifts or taxis too
Dash Earthboy: and nobody here will give me those lifts Zen
Dash Earthboy: altho I've given plenty
Dash Earthboy: so you may see: I can't stay
Dash Earthboy: but going will be an adventure too
Zen Arado: well...I haven't been further than my local supermarket 200 yards away for 2 weeks
Zen Arado: cos friends are on vacation
Zen Arado: do you have a place to go to Dash?
Dash Earthboy: such inconvenience huh Zen?
Dash Earthboy: my nearest supermarket is almost 4 miles away
Dash Earthboy: i had to go yesterday for a little more food to tide me over
Zen Arado: he he I don't mind
Zen Arado: wasn't complaining
Zen Arado: I moved where I am so I could be near shops and restaurants
Dash Earthboy: excellent

Small communities vs Big City Living:

Dash Earthboy: in my desired community, either everything commonly necessary will be within walking distance
Zen Arado: I liked where I was but it was at the top of a steep hill and I had to give up driving
Dash Earthboy: or i'll find neighbors and friends to carry me like I've carried others
Zen Arado: yes...but not so easy in the US?
Zen Arado: the US is built around the car?
Dash Earthboy: so either a metro area or close-knit rural area
Zen Arado: must be small towns though
Zen Arado: older towns
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: I don;t like big city living
Dash Earthboy: my alarm goes off in a half hour :)
Zen Arado: I lived in Sydney for 7 years
Dash Earthboy: then I guess I'll have to wake up :)
Zen Arado: :)
FcSeeker Resident: :)
Dash Earthboy: how was Sydney for ya Zen?
Zen Arado: I live in a small town ..about 40 000 ppl
Zen Arado: big enough and small enough
Zen Arado: I would still be there probably if my family would have settled
Dash Earthboy: the postal city for my farm was only 5000 people
Dash Earthboy: i was volunteer fireman and auxilliary deputy
Dash Earthboy: played music with friends every Thur night
Zen Arado: but I don't regret coming back to Ireland
Zen Arado: yeh sounds good
Dash Earthboy: if your roots are in Ireland Zen, it must feel very much like home now
Zen Arado: big cities can be lonely
Zen Arado: yeh
FcSeeker Resident: very lonely
Dash Earthboy: i liked NYC and Salt Lake City in my past too
Zen Arado: though I was brought up in Belfast
Dash Earthboy: yikes Zen
Zen Arado: I live only about 11 miles from Belfast now
Dash Earthboy: Fc, do you live in a big city?
stevenaia Michinaga: maybe FC is asleep
Dash Earthboy: i felt safer walking the streets around Time Square in NYC at 2 AM than I do walking the square of my current town now at that time
Dash Earthboy: they filmed the TV series "In The Heat of the Night" here
Zen Arado: Miami is a dangerous city
Dash Earthboy: and I worked in the courthouse with the clock tower that is shown at beginning of each episode
Zen Arado: we wre told not to walk anywhere while we were on holiday there
stevenaia Michinaga: danger = lack of love
Zen Arado: oh?
Dash Earthboy: yes stev
Dash Earthboy: you chose to holiday in Miami, Zen?
Zen Arado: I went to Florida a couple of times in the early 80's
Zen Arado: we visited Miami
Dash Earthboy: ah, i see :)
FcSeeker Resident: sorry; got a phonecall in RL
Zen Arado: stayed at Fort Lauderdale and Boca Raton
Dash Earthboy: Fc, i asked earlier if you live in large city?
Dash Earthboy: Zen I'm familiar with those places
FcSeeker Resident: not huge big, but a city
Dash Earthboy: I have kin in Clearwater
Dash Earthboy: are you an apartment dweller Fc?
FcSeeker Resident: needs the dictionary again...a sec
FcSeeker Resident: yes
Dash Earthboy: such different lifestyles
Zen Arado: I like my apartment
Dash Earthboy: good Zen
Zen Arado: small by US standards
Zen Arado: but big enough for me
Zen Arado: could use more storage space though...:)
Dash Earthboy: i may be sleeping in my car on this trip if nobody will lodge me
Zen Arado: but would just pile up more junk
Zen Arado: hmmm...
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders what I would "need" if I lived alone
Zen Arado: not comfortable
Dash Earthboy: nope
FcSeeker Resident: Zen also the junk collector ?
Zen Arado: yeh I am always going to throw a lot of stuff out
Zen Arado: yep :)
Zen Arado: might need it again
Zen Arado: I had microphones and threw them out
Zen Arado: could use now
Zen Arado: :)
Dash Earthboy: The older lady I took care of in Nashville had much stuff too
FcSeeker Resident: I have done that already for few years, but I'm now following the person who had to give up of huge house...so sure also from much junk, as he has also been the junk collector his whole quite long life
Dash Earthboy: hard to get rid of it all when she died
Zen Arado: I have so many books
Dash Earthboy: i can relate Zen :)
Dash Earthboy: quite a library
Zen Arado: I have a friend sells them on Amazon
Zen Arado: must try that
Dash Earthboy: several tall bookshelves filled
FcSeeker Resident: have given away 'millions' of records and books few years back already
Dash Earthboy: my son is supposed to help sell mine
Dash Earthboy: but no luck so far
FcSeeker Resident: but they all got good new home
Zen Arado: Kindle helps
Zen Arado: but paper books are nicer
Dash Earthboy: wonder thing you did there Fc :)
Zen Arado: I better go
FcSeeker Resident: but soon I must give up from more because the house I'm living in shall be destroyed
Dash Earthboy: have a good one Zen :)
FcSeeker Resident: have good time Zen
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Zen
Zen Arado: ty for dropping by all
stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to wake up
stevenaia Michinaga: night all
Zen Arado: byeee
Dash Earthboy: bye stev
FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your day stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: thx