2011.09.03 07:00 - Portraits of "We"

The Guardian for this meeting was oO0Oo Resident. The comments are by oO0Oo Resident. Attending were: Dash Earthboy, Corvuscorva Nightfire, Samúð (oo0oo), Susan Sorensson (iwandertoo), Mila (milakel), Bruce Mowbray, Archmage Atlantis, Lucinda Lavender, and Santoshima

Corvi: heya Sam
Samúð: Hi Corvi :)


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Dash: hey y'all
Samúð: Morning Dash
Corvi: mornin!
Samúð: :)
Dash: :)
Dash: corvi, you had asked me why I attend PaB sessions
Corvi: nods.
Samúð: Oddly, I have a yearning lately for the grass surface in the pavilion. Do either of you object if I change to it?
Corvi: not a bit, please do
Dash: this may be a better time to answer that question
Dash: pls do Sam
Corvi: Corvi smiles
Dash: i am happy when I'm learning or teaching
Samúð: whispers: ty
Dash: so when someone tells me "be happy" or how to be happy in some other way, I don't see the wisdom in their words
Dash: hey Susan
Susan: waves
Dash: there are some here like Wol and Fc who understand that self-realization is not a platform for manipulating other people
Dash: as some who enjoy handing out advice based on some of their ethereal practices seem to enjoy doing
Dash: using "we" and "you" as inclusive references
Corvi: that's come up alot lately
Corvi: I mean the idea about giving or not giving advice
Dash: unrequested advice is rarely beneficial for either party
Corvi: but could you talk about we/you as inclusive refrences? and I noticed you use "one"...I wonder how that's different?
Dash: one is the accepted generic identification of an individual
Dash: you is a more direct reference
Dash: we is a terribly inclusive direct reference

Susan: i don't think there there is ill will meant when others give their perspective. in their own way, good or bad / right or wrong / appropriate or inappropriate, they seem (to me) to being conveying a sentiment of caring.

Corvi: thinks
Mila: *floats in*
Mila: hi :)
Dash: hey mila
Susan: waves
Corvi: thinks about advice
Dash: Susan, bad advice is bad advice no matter what the intentions
Samúð: Hi Mila, and Susan
Corvi: versus perspective
Corvi: and good versus bad advice
Corvi: hmmm
Susan: intentionality does not matter?
Susan: or i am misunderstanding?
Dash: well Corvi, if i told you to go jump in a lake to cool off on a winter's day because you appeared to me to be hot tempered, would that be good advice for me to give you?
Corvi: here's what I was thinking..
Corvi: was that advice can be bad advice even if the intent is good, and the advice is "drink water"
Corvi: if it's not what I need at the moment
Corvi: i mean..
Corvi: sometimes
Corvi: I need to be heard
Corvi: not given advice
Corvi: or at least I believe I need to be heard
Susan: yes, this is key - "to be heard"
Dash: that is what i've indicated to you also
Corvi: Corvi nods.
Samúð: Samúð listens and closes eyes
Susan: i think, at times, we're unaware that we're not hearing another
Corvi: what I feel ooky about when i am expressing my discomfort....
Corvi: is when I am told it's not important or fixabble
Corvi: when all I want
Corvi: is to say....oook!
Dash: yes
Dash: or that you need to change your perspective
Corvi: nods.
Dash: and that will make you happy
Corvi: on the other hand


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Dash: in my song "My Swan Song" I suggest "Don't try to tell me where to go until you know where I've been"
Corvi: nods
Dash: ie, get to know me before trying to advise
Corvi: it might in part be the place/context here, though

Corvi: because we are here to talk about perspective



Dash: yes, context is important

Corvi: everything gets folded into that conversation
Susan: nods
Corvi: and each person uses the ook of the moment
Corvi: to try to figure out what to do with ook
Corvi: (ook being my own techincal term)
Dash: :)
Corvi: :)
Corvi: which means, mostly..that we are applying our own bit of learning and ideas
Corvi: to your ook
Dash: nothing wrong with expressing a perspective
Dash: but pls don't include me in it without my consent
Corvi: Corvi nods, thoughtfully
Corvi: I had that problem when I came here at first
Corvi: full of sturm and drang
Corvi: because I generally am full of it
Corvi: Corvi smiles. warmly.
Dash: guess all my experience as a counselor has made me sensitive to health/unhealthy parts of conversations
Corvi: nods...thinks.
Corvi: this is a different kind of conversation
Dash: iyho
Corvi: though many of us have those conversations out of this circle.
Samúð: *sensitive*
Corvi: or after, when the recorder is off.
Corvi: Corvi grins.
Corvi: alot.
Corvi: but here..we are focused



Corvi: even if it seems we aren't.
Dash: "we"
Corvi: Corvi nods, thoughtfully
Corvi: I think I do mean the group
Corvi: in this case.
Corvi: though the bits might not all be floating in the same direction.
Mila: focus on what?
Dash: guess i've found different perspectives in Wol & Fc and a few others
Corvi: Corvi thinks.
Corvi: focused on "what is this mess?" Experimenting?
Dash: when Pema has attended, I haven't seen much "we" from him
Corvi: Corvi nods.
Dash: hey Bruce
Corvi: we each are...better at some things.
Corvi: Hey Bruce!
Susan: waves

Mila: corvi, um... i'm rather relaxed here :)



Mila: *watches a cloud passing by*

Dash: * thinks Corvi may have a "we" addiction
Corvi: I've found Wol and Pema and a few others awefully good at incorporating my sturm and drang with the rest of the conversation...and you look really really relaxed.
Mila: bruce! :)
Corvi: Corvi giggles. Might!
Samúð: Hi Bruce
Corvi: I'm not dropping it from my vocabulary any more than Ya'll though.
Corvi: heehee
Dash: that's a wonderful pose Mila IMHO
Mila: :)
Mila: i quite like it too
Susan: i find that i don't resonate with most of what is said here. but listening to other perspectives helps...check my premises, look at my rationalizations - when I differ - do i know why and how - can I explain the difference in very simple terms.
Dash: agreed Susan
Corvi: thank you for talking with me about all this Dash. I really appreciate it, even if I don't take all your thoughts as my own.
Mila: *reads the back of bruce's tshirt: "make me an instrument of peace" :)
Susan: :)

Bruce: Bruce listens to catch the drift.




Mila: "make me" sounds rather forceful
Dash: yet I believe I've made my point very clear that including me in a perspective, by using "we", is offensive unless I have given consent
Bruce: It's a Saint Francis thing.
Samúð: Samúð wonders what it takes.. to become a saint
Corvi: i understand that..but i don't understand how "we each have a different talent"
Bruce: ;-)
Corvi: works the same way.
Mila: i think, as storm mentioned in an email, peace is coming from us, not upon us
Susan: nods...
Bruce: "We" (like peace) probably involves mutuality -- coming both from within and from without.
Dash: Corvi, that we was followed by "each"


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Mila: dash, how about we experiment and make the "we" session where everyone says "we" and never "i"? :)
Dash: :)
Mila: then see change in our perspectives
Dash: when one person starts a food fight, many like to join in
Dash: who cares if the food is wasted, right?
Mila: *thinks: it's quite difficult without the "i"*
Corvi: we could use the royal we!
Susan: :)
Corvi: we uses it now
Corvi: Corvi giggles.
Mila: nah, don't like food fights. i hide under the table :)
Corvi: your point about perspective...and we is well taken
Mila: oh wait, let me rephrase that!
Corvi: listens
Susan: obtuse abstract use of "we" - no issues
Mila: we don't like food fights. we hide under the table :)
Corvi: Corvi snickers
Mila: it's much easier to go without "we"
Susan: thinks of the book, Anthem, ... joins in the food fight
Corvi: heheh
Mila: then without "i"
Dash: to offend by showing lack of respect, what perspective is that?
Corvi: Corvi thinks about respect
Dash: and mocking?
Corvi: now
Corvi: mocking?
Susan: perspectives out of sync
Bruce: Folks usually say that they want peace -- but often they flock to conflict like moths to flame -- looking for excitement and adrenaline rush.
Susan: words not being "heard"
Dash: yes Bruce
Mila: dash, i don't know. i think the "we" session is a fun experiment.
Dash: i know people who find joy in irritating others
Bruce: Bruce imagines "we-ness" in terms of concentric circles. . .
Mila: :)
Dash: pushing their buttons
Corvi: oof...that is no fun, Dash, for me.
Dash: :)
Mila: bruce, the olympic circles! :)
Corvi: I want to assure you that if I am having fun with an idea..it's not intended at yoru expense, or with lack of respect to you
Corvi: but I do like to throw an idea around and see what happens
Corvi: if I see it in a new way
Bruce: I think "we" experiment would be a cool stretch.
Bruce: WE might enjoy it.
Bruce: and WE might learn something from it.
Dash: guess I've dealt with too many abused people to accept experimenting with where the lines are in abuse
Corvi: Corvi grins at Bruce.
Mila: if you calculate each possible offense each time you say something, you might as well stay mute :)
Dash: hey Arch
Susan: waves
Mila: archy :)
Bruce: WE all know that in order to be offended, WE first have to make OURselves offendable.
Corvi: Corvi waves at Arch.
Bruce: Hi, Arch.
Samúð: Arch :)
Dash: no we don't know that Bruce
Arch: And yet to be mute can also be an offense
Mila: *nods to bruce*
Bruce: Hey Arch, I am playing a WE game-experiment. Want to play?
Mila: archy! ha, true :)
Mila: so no way around :)
Arch: Walk forward
Mila: except to be yourself
Corvi: Corvi sits a little miserable, trying to figure out how to play without giving offense.
Corvi: I don't think I have the skill for this conversation, Dash.
Bruce: Bruce realized that his RL "WE" identifications are very few.
Arch: I have totally offended all in my rl
Dash: bragging Arch?
Mila: archy, why do you think so?
Arch: Just by existing
Mila: heh
Mila: interesting
Arch: Really Dash, do you think of saying that as bragging
Dash: yes, could be taken that way
Arch: I was told I take over conversations
Dash: guess I could have asked "bragging or complaining, Arch?"
Arch: It was not a polite comment
Samúð:

  * Intention (does it matter)
 
  * wanting to express   (do we ask for consent)
                 to be heard  (do we ask)
 
  * Advice (asked for or not)
 
  * Listening (how and why)
 
  * Not wanting to be fixed or defined
 
  * Semantics
 
  * Sensitivity
 
  * Caring (what is it)

Mila: you just totally did, archy! :)
Mila: and it was a nice twist :)
Arch: The infinite, that is what is


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Bruce: Partly, I feel that this conversation (including Arch's timely comments) is a demonstration of the Buddhist notion that we cannot share experience, even though we might be able to resonate in similar ways that others do.
Dash: each effected individual experienced Irene in their own way
Susan:
     [ ...if keep your finger on the left arrow key
       ...and let yourself circle about while viewing the pavillion
       ....its like that round-about playground thing
       ....when you get off all dizzy    ]       


kindly rotate effect 90 degrees... ;)


Bruce: yes, good case in point, Dash.
Dash: so was being caught in Irene a shared experience?
Bruce: Depends on where you imagine the circle of "we-ness," Dash.
Arch: Not to me, Dash
Arch: Here in Florida....hurricanes happen
Dash: for the record, to be perfectly clear, my "we" problem is when I am included in a perspective or similar concept without my consent
Bruce: "Shared experience" is a sort of koan -- We FEEL it -- but most of the time I feel that it's a projection of my own stuff onto others.
Arch: Tornados in Kansas,....Eartquakes in California....they happen
Dash: if in fact I was implicated, say caught in a storm, I have no problem with "we were caught in the storm"
Dash: but i have a problem with "we all took the storm in stride"
Arch: Dorothy was my rl mothers name......
Mila: that's a nice name
Arch: She was strong///// amoung the first to go to the University of Florida
Susan: :)
Arch: Nimbus was strong
Samúð: :)
Susan: :)
Arch: Both are gone
Samúð: Live on in 'us' in unique ways
Arch: Somewhere over the rainbow
Arch: must go
Dash: bye Arch
Samúð: tc Arch
Mila: *pats archy's back*
Susan: waves
Corvi: bye Arch



Just missed Arch as he poofed while I framed the shot


Bruce: I felt grief about Nimbus -- but was that "shared experience" -- I don't think so; I think it was resonating experience.
Bruce: Arch's grief was not my grief -- although both were resonances of a similar loss.
Mila: yes, bruce. think you're right.
Dash: *wonders why his avi is typing like crazy?
Mila: either he's typing or sl bug
Bruce: Bruce wonders why Arch suddenly poofed after his last comment.
Dash: yah, I was sitting here watching it
Dash: mila
Bruce: That's happened a lot with me, Dash... which is one of the reasons i turned off the typing animation.
Dash: yah
Dash: i had noticed in sl that there were fewer crossover chat lines if I or someone else indicated they were typing
Bruce: Arch mentioned "offending" people (everyone, actually). I have just offended a lot of people by refusing to participate in the memorial service for a mutual friend (of 30 years).
Bruce: yes, the typing animation is useful for that, Dash.
Mila: can you tell more, bruce?
Mila: i wonder why
Bruce: Well, I was so disturbed by the crazy behaviors of many "friends" of the person who died, that I simply pulled away.
Bruce: They were fighting with each other.
Bruce: calling state protective agency and reporting absue. . . CRAZY things.
Bruce: and I had absolutely no influence in getting them to be reasonable..
Dash: sounds like my uncle's funeral where I was a pall bearer, Bruce
Mila: well, but it's not the deceased fault
Bruce: Now they want to play nice for an hour - - No thanks.
Susan: nods

     Cup Of Green Tea: whispers: Ah! Steaming Green Tea!

Mila: but i can imagine how irritating it might have been
Bruce: I withdrew six months ago and I remain withdrawn.


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Susan: hi Luci
Dash: hey Luci
Samúð: Hi Luci
Bruce: Hey, Luci.

Mila: luci the flower girl :)



Lucinda: Good Day all:)

Corvi: Bye Luci!
Corvi: or rather Hi!
Corvi: hahah
Susan: :)
Lucinda: bye:) corvi
Samúð: waves
Lucinda: ha ha!
Mila: *wonders if luci will sing today* :)
Lucinda: interesting wondering Mila
Mila: heh
Bruce: I think of wars as mass participation in craziness -- and I simply withdraw from such involvements -- when it's clear I have no influence in changing them.
Bruce: I admire those who DO bring their influence for sanity -- like Gandhi and MLK and other peacemakers.
Mila: sometimes you have to take a gun and defend your... whatever that is... country, family.
Dash: dang, my fan just drew in smoke from somebody below me having a ciggy, yech!
Mila: ouch, not good, dash :)
Dash: yes, mila, either that or die
Corvi: I think that peacemaking must be a skill thing, too.
Bruce: Bruce thinks: never had a gun and never will.
Corvi: me thinks about guns and words
Corvi: and actions
Mila: how can you make peace with pure evil?
Lucinda: everything is in the process of destruction luci is thinking...of consuming...

     Coffeecup: whispers: Fuel to be Fabulous.

Dash: *thinks, got his first gun at 10 years old :)
Corvi: well I was thinking about MLK and Ghandi
Lucinda: thinking of a book I had once..loud noises and bad smells forever...
Dash: true, mila, some evil doesn't tolerate what I consider "peace"
Corvi: who weren't exactly peacemakers, really
Mila: it may be irrational, but some people really don't get it unless force is applied
Corvi: they were agitators
Dash: yep
Dash: mila
Bruce: Bruce knows that he has enough aggression in himself that he'd have blown many folks away if he'd had a gun available -- so best not to have one.
Mila: dash, i shot one at 6 :P
Dash: while I didn't use my Baretta on a guy using karate on me
Dash: so maybe one doesn't have to use a gun unlless one chooses to
Mila: i much prefer karate. it's prettier. all the moves :)
Corvi: Corvi nods.
Dash: mila, the karate left me with lots of head damage and now prone to migraines ever since
Mila: ouch
Dash: i was wearing glasses which he almost inserted into my skull
Mila: what was the quarrel about?
Bruce: I used to teach Tai Chi Chuan at a prison -- and one of the inmates said he was afraid of me because he thought Tai Chi was a martial art . . .
Dash: he was a child-abusing drug dealer
Mila: :/
Mila: karate isn't supposed to be used for evil... or so they say
Dash: he didn't like that I had a pro-America (patriotic) song out on local radio stations
Mila: where was it?
Corvi: Corvi looks at the time and waves goodbye
Susan: waves
Bruce: Bye, Corvi.
Dash: he was a Navy brat, Mila, whose father made sure he learned all this stuff and then tried to isolate him from polite society
Mila: oh, nice comment on the tai chi, bruce :)
Lucinda: Bye corvi:)
Bruce: I also need to get outside and do chores before it gets too hot.
Dash: bye Corvi
Dash: bye Bruce
Bruce: Have a good weekend, folks.
Samúð: Bye Corvi Good to see you :)
Susan: waves
Bruce: and be peaceful, if at all possible.
Samúð: Bye Bruce.. best
Lucinda: Bye Bruce...Peace to you..
Mila: one would think a navy person enjoys patriotic songs
Dash: i have been a peace worker since 1970
Dash: in the intervening time i've been a store detective, social worker, and museum guard among other things


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Dash: i agree with mila that there is evil and that it sometimes cannot be reasoned with
Dash: except by brute force
Dash: ppl often shirk their responsibility by saying "that's why we have police"
Dash: but I had to arrest a fully-uniformed deputy for shoplifting
Dash: so i feel we're each responsible for working for peace
Dash: and eliminating evil the way the move is on to eliminate cancer
Lucinda: interesting ...yes
Dash: some ppl are like cancer to society
Lucinda: not sure what I believe but have been thinking about how cells behave
Dash: yah, it's a tough call: what is healthy?
Dash: the ciggy smoke coming into my room now sure isn't :(
Samúð: ook
Lucinda: well don't some cells start not staying in the same boundary?
Lucinda: like the smoke...
Lucinda: interesting
Lucinda: you have a room then...!
Dash: yah, but as a social worker, the attorney general for the state informed me I could not infringe on the rights of the other 5 smokers to smoke in our little office
Dash: so "unhealthy" was defined the same way then
Dash: i have a private room, Luci, at the hostel because dorm rooms were limited to 3 nights stays and tenants were locked out from 10-5 each day
Lucinda: that might be nice then?
Dash: private room without such restrictions ended up costing same for the week
Lucinda: nods
Lucinda: nods
Lucinda: oops:)
Lucinda: thought I was about to crash...
Dash: and yesterday in other sessions I updated fellow PaBers that I had successfully got management to turn off all the baseboard heat units they've had going full blast here during the heat wave
Lucinda: wow!
Dash: creating 95 degree interior temps when it was less than 90 outside during the night
Dash: yah, it's been a struggle
Lucinda: nods
Dash: guess that's why I was led here...to solve problems for many others
Dash: who won't know of my impact
Lucinda: a gift you bring
Lucinda: the noticing
Dash: anonymously yes
Lucinda: so many things to notice
Lucinda: to observe
Dash: and i ask people to pay attention
Samúð: Samúð nods
Dash: just pay attention
Lucinda: and perhaps stay with the noticing
Lucinda: when it does not resolve
Lucinda: I have a big thank you to make...
Lucinda: to Samuo for helping me when my computer did not get the log yesterday


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Susan: :)
Lucinda: :)
Dash: :)
Lucinda: and the bell thanks you as well:)
Samúð: smiles.. thanks Luci
Dash: ;)
Lucinda: gratitude all round
Lucinda: I find being in the middle of noticing issues to two sides difficult to bridge ..myself
Dash: as for paying attention, the thing is over 100 people here during the past three months were unaware that the baseboard heaters were on superheating the rooms
Lucinda: hmmm other things were being noticed by them I would guess...
Dash: they bought management's claim that it was just the heat wave and rooms not cooling down ("fast enough for you complainers") and mgmt's claim that the heaters had been turned off 3 months ago
Dash: and when I found the heaters in this room working, they started weaving a web of lies
Dash: telling me the thermostat was in another room and I'd have to deal with that tenant rather than them
Samúð: It is difficult, sometimes frustrating, to see or experience things that others seem not to
Dash: to me that is evil: trying to put enmity between fellow tenants
Dash: Sam, that is my life
Samúð: That is why I am listening
Dash: yah
Dash: so when the guy in the other room told me he had been told the thermostat was in my room
Dash: he told me this when waking me at 1 AM Thur night
Dash: I got online and complained to the Chamber of Commerce and the City Code Enforcement for housing code violations
Dash: and so yesterday, things got fixed
Lucinda: super Dash!
Dash: and the Chamber of Commerce apologized for this business giving Boulder an unfavorable light
Dash: but the guy in the next room checked out before the repairs started and so never knew the problems were solved
Dash: nor does anybody else here know why the rooms feel so much cooler now
Lucinda: must go for now...namaste players...
Dash: btw, no a/c in these rooms
Susan: waves
Dash: bye Luci
Samúð: spares a thought for all the invisible (to me) persons who may have, through their activity, made my life more comfortable upon arriving
Lucinda: oops
Samúð: Bye Luci
Dash: good idea Sam
Lucinda: :) yes sam
Dash: that's why I honor our vets
Dash: and not just on Nov 11 and May 30
Dash: they helped give us the peace we have now
Dash: such as it is
Dash: hey San
Santoshima: hi dash
Santoshima: sam, susan, mila
Susan: waves
Samúð: Hi Santo
Samúð: almost in the break
Dash: :)


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Santoshima: news flash: Temple Grandin is speaking today not sure what time or where) in boulder ...
Susan: Temple Grandin?
Santoshima: yes
Susan: googling
Santoshima: for those here to whom that might be of interest
Susan: i remember seeing her on 60 Minutes years ago
Santoshima: although, it looks like she's IN U colorado ... so it might not be such news ...
Santoshima: She will speak Saturday at the inaugural Life and Death Matters Festival in Boulder.
Santoshima: http://www.coloradodaily.com/ci_18792564

Temple Grandin to speak in Boulder ~ ColoradoDaily

Santoshima: If you go:

       What: Temple Grandin at LAD Matters Festival
       When: 10 a.m. to noon Saturday
      Where: Nomad Theater, 1410 Quince Ave., Boulder
  More info: ladmatters.com; templegrandin.com
 
Samúð: Were you wanting to discuss this person Susan?
Susan: no, sorry. after seeing the picture - it came back.
Dash: wow, just interrupted by a phone call here
Dash: probably will have a condo share in Ft. Collins next week when I return to start the new job :)
Susan: good news :)
Dash: yah!
Santoshima: that's great
Samúð: Samúð nods
Dash: and the weather here is also cooperating to help enjoy this weekend
Dash: doesn't really take much to lift my spirits :)
Dash: San, does the event you mentioned have a cost?
Samúð: Nice view of mountain anywhere nearby Dash?
Santoshima: i'll check
Dash: yes Sam
Dash: but none with snow
Dash: still, I like being in the mountains


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Dash: even the Wasatch in Salt Lake City
Dash: * starting to notice I haven't had breakfast yet
Samúð: Samúð smiles
Dash: that's one thing not here: coffee
Dash: not even a coffee cup to use to make instant
Dash: or tea even
Susan: shudders
Susan: :)
Dash: :)
Samúð: Maybe some to take away from a shop, and a picnic in the mountains?
Susan: sends over a coffee/tea vibe
Dash: :)
Dash: as usual in my life to date, if I don't have it I can't find anyone who'll loan me what I need
Dash: i have been drinking a tea/lemonade combo from ingredients I got yesterday...organic lemonade, can you believe it?
Susan: (in cali...yes, believe it :) )
Samúð: Samúð believes
Santoshima: sure, that's boulder
Dash: the grocery is like a Whole Foods, only smaller and less variety
Susan: :)
Samúð: Tea and Lemonade... sounds refreshing :)
Dash: oh it is IT IS :)
Dash: even Lipton is doing that sort of thing now with their BRISK
Dash: not that i'm endorsing their products :)
Dash: just realized, that event is already happening here San
Santoshima: oh, sorry ...
Santoshima: i saw it in an email from a friend in boulder ... and was so wishing to be able to go myself ... thought to pass it along to someone who might, but hadn't found the details yet
Susan: (interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/books/review/the-mechanic-muse-from-scroll-to-screen.html?_r=1&ref=technology )

Transmigrating reading devices ~ The New York Times

Dash: appreciate the thought San
Santoshima: ty susan, this is quite interesting
Susan: yw
Dash: cute Susan :)
Susan: :)
Dash: i've been promoting such digitizing since the early 90s to save trees


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Santoshima: you in school-teacher mode today, sam?
Dash: few I've met realize how many trees are grown commercially just for pulp and pressboard...i'd rather have the hardwoods and fruit/nut trees
Dash: don't even get me started on Christmas tree farms :)
Susan: if anyone speaks with cal, he might enjoy this (as he's reading a great deal of abstracts about SL); http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/fashion/for-fashion-week-designers-start-to-see-in-3-d.html?ref=technology

Designers use Avatars for Fashion Week ~ The New York Times

Samúð: Interesting article Susan ~ thanks. Suspect Calvino's radar will pick this up ;)
Susan: yes, imagine so
Santoshima: thanks, susan
Dash: well, now i guess i'll call it brunch instead of breakfast, but it's time
Dash: pax et bonum y'all
Santoshima: pax dash
Susan: waves
Samúð: Pax Dash Bon Appetit
Santoshima: me too, thanks and so long


15 minute --BELL-- Please observe 90 seconds of silence.


Samúð: Samúð waves
Susan: waves