2011.09.15 07:00 - Life as a sponge

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind. The title - "Life as a sponge" - is not necessarily representative of the session; I just found it irresistible!

taramudra Resident: hi storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Tara
taramudra Resident: are we in a session?
Storm Nordwind: The official start time is in 4 minutes. ;-) So yes, if you want to be!
taramudra Resident: ahh ok, ill wait then, im ok :)
Storm Nordwind: There's nothing to stop us talking. And there's nothing to stop us enjoying the quiet too. :)
--BELL--

The burden of not forgiving.

Storm Nordwind: Well I have no pressing topic. (I rarely do.) Is there a subject that appeals to you? :)
taramudra Resident: i dont know i could use talking about forgiveness maybe?
Storm Nordwind: Sure. Do you have an aspect of it in mind? Or an example perhaps that you'd like to mention?
taramudra Resident: let me see
taramudra Resident: i know its important to forgive
taramudra Resident: and maybe even easy to do so
taramudra Resident: but how can you make uneasy feelings go away
taramudra Resident: ?
Storm Nordwind: You say you know its important to forgive. May I enquire first about that - what makes you believe that? (Not saying it is or it isn't. Just wondering why you think it's important.)
taramudra Resident: i feel the burden can get too heavy and then its important to release it
taramudra Resident: but what to do when thats not enough to love again?
taramudra Resident: its like a riddle
Storm Nordwind: Ah I see.
Storm Nordwind: First of all, as I see it (who what it's worth), the primary beneficiary of forgiveness is the person who does the forgiving, rather than the person who is forgiven.
Storm Nordwind: Good morning Susan.
iwandertoo Resident: hi storm
taramudra Resident: yes i think so
taramudra Resident: hi susan
iwandertoo Resident: hi taramudra

Forgiveness and healing.

Storm Nordwind: So may I ask Tara, what you believe is the purpose of forgiveness anyway? Is it to help you unburden?
taramudra Resident: maybe and to heal too
taramudra Resident: among many other thing im sure ive forgotten
Storm Nordwind smiles
taramudra Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: Well I suspect that maybe forgiveness can start the healing process, and without it perhaps the healing would be harder. But it's possible for forgiveness sometimes to be quick, almost instant, whereas healing can take time. Although they're linked, I suspect they're separate things.
taramudra Resident: wow, i havent though of it like that, i agree
taramudra Resident: maybe impatience to heal can make us believe we can never love again
Storm Nordwind: Ah... that's touching and I think it may well be true.
taramudra Resident: ty, your reflection made me think of it
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Forgiveness is a code word! For me, it's code for "I don't want this to happen to me again. So I'm not going to lash out and create the conditions for it to bounce back to me another time in the future. Instead, the hurt can stop here, right now, with me. And now I'm ready to heal."
taramudra Resident: nice thinking :)
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind smiles

Bouncing pain.

Storm Nordwind: The world is so full of hurt, bouncing from one person to another and back again, that if there's anything I can do occasionally to reduce it - and maybe even to reverse it - then I will... or at least I try!
iwandertoo Resident: how do you measure their pain, storm?
taramudra Resident: oh yes, i dont remember where i read it but now i remeber someone wrote that the world is full of pain but also full of overcoming pain
Storm Nordwind: I can't measure it Susan. They may tell me. I may perceive it. I may see its effects. Sometimes you don't see it all.
taramudra Resident: there are people great at hiding it
Storm Nordwind: That's a positive thought Tara!
iwandertoo Resident: the 'try' you are referring to is from witin your character
Storm Nordwind: Yes Susan. I'm amazingly lazy. And complacent. "Try" is just a spur to myself!
taramudra Resident smiles

Hiding or expressing suffering.

Storm Nordwind: Hiding pain can be a cultural thing. Like the difference between a stoic and a hypochondriac. Both are probably out of balance.
iwandertoo Resident: there are people who find sunshine in everything regardless of the pain...a lesson (just much much harder lesson)
taramudra Resident: ohh yes, i agree! its not easy
taramudra Resident: maybe we learn as a cultural thing not to let it be easy
Storm Nordwind: Yes Susan. Perhaps I veer in that direction. I've found a danger to being optimistic and happy all the time is that others perceive you sometimes as uncaring!
Storm Nordwind: Interesting point Tara. We often don't give ourselves permission to do things, yet when we eventually do they may become easy
iwandertoo Resident: I think in order to understand this in another one has to understand their capacity for deeling sadness in order to accurately represent their authentica ability to feel joy...and say thy are fundamentally optimistic
iwandertoo Resident: sorry walking...hard to type
Storm Nordwind smiles
taramudra Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: Awareness is the thing. We can allow it to become dull. We can allow it to become open and bright and deep. What we become aware of can be intense, but as you say, we can be aware of pain and joy.

Choosing optimism.

taramudra Resident: susan do u think its a chioce to be optimistic... i mean, really only a choice?
taramudra Resident: how can we make that choice ours?
--BELL--
iwandertoo Resident: I don't know if its a choice as in how we evolve from brith thru childhood
iwandertoo Resident: but I do beleieve as an adult one can integrate this
iwandertoo Resident: terribly difficult for some...for others perhaps it was always as they were but could not express it
taramudra Resident: i think i do too, right now im having difficulty knowing the how :)
Storm Nordwind: I think it's at least partly a choice to be optimistic. It may need some raw ingredients but I think you can choose to enhance it - or to cover it over.
taramudra Resident: being optimistic will sure be a better option anytime
iwandertoo Resident: yes
Storm Nordwind: But I think it does need to be a long term choice to be effective
Storm Nordwind: And results come slowly
Storm Nordwind: But they're worthwhile :)
taramudra Resident: yes, they do need foundation
taramudra Resident: which im seeking :)
iwandertoo Resident: :)
iwandertoo Resident: let your soul shine
taramudra Resident smiles
Storm Nordwind: I don't think there's a single foundation. Different things work for different people at different times of their life. For example, one person make find a role model and use them as an inspiration. Another might use logical reasoning to see the best and worst of what could happen. So many ways.
taramudra Resident: i agree
taramudra Resident: its nice to have many options
taramudra Resident: or ways
iwandertoo Resident: nice thing abouut pab
Storm Nordwind: The important thing is not to be too discouraged when one way turns out not to be the best at the moment, but just to have confidence that you can find another way if you try
iwandertoo Resident: I'm noy here to give answers or tell how to live...but listen and maybe u will learn something that will help on your journey

Life as a sponge.

taramudra Resident: im like a sponge
taramudra Resident smiles
taramudra Resident: that is why i came
Storm Nordwind: Sponges are holy! ;-))
taramudra Resident: hahaha
iwandertoo Resident: cheesy smile
Storm Nordwind chuckles
iwandertoo Resident: curious wonder with the world = sponge
iwandertoo Resident: and delight
taramudra Resident: maybe i must elaborate
iwandertoo Resident: and maybe some discernment too
Storm Nordwind: I think you're describing me Susan
taramudra Resident: im like a sponge willing to absorb knowledge from others
iwandertoo Resident: thinking out loud...not good
taramudra Resident: happens all the time
iwandertoo Resident: nods woth taramudra
iwandertoo Resident: I most think out on paper
iwandertoo Resident: rambles
Storm Nordwind: Sponges have another advantage... they carry water from place to place, so what you pick up you can distribute in turn - to the benefit of many others :))
taramudra Resident: what a sweet though storm :)
taramudra Resident: ill keep it in mind so to give some of the received
Storm Nordwind: I suspect you already do, without even making any conscious decision, And we're already the beneficiaries here today :)
taramudra Resident smiles
taramudra Resident: ty
taramudra Resident: very much
iwandertoo Resident: yes, ty, taramudra
taramudra Resident: ty both!
Storm Nordwind smiles

Caring words.

Storm Nordwind: Sometimes we sit here for an hour or more and just chat - which is pleasant enough of course. And sometimes we share and learn - and it's a great joy. We never know how deeply we can touch each other and change a life by just a few simple caring words. :)
--BELL--
taramudra Resident: here its a great place to let our thoughts out
taramudra Resident: and learn
taramudra Resident: :)
taramudra Resident: i think its great to be able to chat with others and share our thoughts
taramudra Resident: i really appreciate it
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
Storm Nordwind: And despite the openness here, it's very much a safe place.
taramudra Resident: i think so, yes
taramudra Resident: not all of sl is like in here
Storm Nordwind: Very true. But people have different needs and they come to SL for different reasons.

A little neighborhood history.

Storm Nordwind: The area around here was once a very "spiritual" place
Storm Nordwind: For example, there were probably three times as many temples as there are now (in adjoining sims)
Storm Nordwind: When I first built here, 4 years ago almost exactly, many different groups were represented.
taramudra Resident: so this sim was bigger?
Storm Nordwind: Not this sim, no, but to the west is Mieum sim and beyond is Rieul...
Storm Nordwind: There were many temples there
Storm Nordwind: And a monastery
taramudra Resident: wow! sorry they are no more
Storm Nordwind: My Kuan Yin Terraces still survives. The Daoist temple is still there. Tara Ling has moved but is still there. The Shinto place survives. But many others have gone - Confucian, Christian, Jewish, and some Buddhist - possibly a sign of the economic times
taramudra Resident: what a pity :(
Storm Nordwind: The Linden road builder put the Wellington road through the edge of Mieum a year or two ago... and the area still had enough "feel" to it for them to change the road to more agricultural cobblestone - in sympathy with the area. I remember thanking them for their sensitivity!
taramudra Resident smiles

Rain.

iwandertoo Resident: is there a place where it rains all the time in sl?
taramudra Resident: yes i know one
Storm Nordwind: All the time? Possibly!
taramudra Resident: let me see if i can give you the link
iwandertoo Resident: ty
Storm Nordwind: I switch it on and off here
iwandertoo Resident: how so?
taramudra Resident: i think it does in borobudur temple...
Storm Nordwind: Like this :)
taramudra Resident: wow!!!
iwandertoo Resident: can't see...
taramudra Resident: i love this
taramudra Resident: are u on ur phone susan?
iwandertoo Resident: txt only
Storm Nordwind: Rain and distant thunder on audio, and rainfall graphics
iwandertoo Resident: yes...
iwandertoo Resident: enjoy the raindrops
iwandertoo Resident: I love walking in warm rain
Storm Nordwind: :))
iwandertoo Resident: or jogging in cool rain
taramudra Resident: i love that too, i love to be in the rain at the beach
iwandertoo Resident: jumping in puddles
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: Swimming in the sea in the rain is great
iwandertoo Resident: seaside is best
taramudra Resident: wow storm its great
iwandertoo Resident: sailing in the rain...rocks
iwandertoo Resident: edgy
taramudra Resident: best of all, im not cold :)
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Storm Nordwind: (Storm is, as storm does. ;)
taramudra Resident: hahaha! :))
iwandertoo Resident: hehe
--BELL--

Green and grey.

Storm Nordwind: There is, however, a limit to the attractiveness of rain. As I found out when i lived in Scotland for 6 years!
taramudra Resident: hahaha!
taramudra Resident: never been there but i think it must be quite green everywhere
iwandertoo Resident: grey
Storm Nordwind: Pretty much yes. All the year round. None of the brown winter grass I find here
iwandertoo Resident: it is a sense of grey, yes?
taramudra Resident: yeah, both...green below and gray above :)
iwandertoo Resident: north
Storm Nordwind: It can be very very grey in Scotland, especially in winter
iwandertoo Resident: yes
Storm Nordwind: Same latitude as parts of Alaska
taramudra Resident: really?
taramudra Resident: must be very cold
iwandertoo Resident: seaside cold
Storm Nordwind: The Gulf Stream moderates it
taramudra Resident: mmm
Storm Nordwind: But dark in winter, low cloud base for weeks. Very wet...
iwandertoo Resident: lovely still...a pensive place
Storm Nordwind: When I moved there, one October several years ago, there was a puddle in the carpark outside the office...
Storm Nordwind: A new colleague and I had bets as to when it would dry up...
iwandertoo Resident: hehe
Storm Nordwind: He said December. I said January...
Storm Nordwind: It was March
taramudra Resident smiles
iwandertoo Resident: waves
iwandertoo Resident: best to both of you
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now!
iwandertoo Resident: thank you for this
Storm Nordwind: A pleasure :))
taramudra Resident: excelent day for you susan!

Snow.

Storm Nordwind: of course if you prefer a snowstorm...
taramudra Resident: can you do that???
taramudra Resident: lets do it!
taramudra Resident: hahaha! wow!
taramudra Resident: never been in a real one though
taramudra Resident: so u are the weather man :)
Storm Nordwind: Does it not snow much where you are in RL?
taramudra Resident: not at all, i am at mexico city
taramudra Resident: but i cant complain
Storm Nordwind: Ah... I see.
taramudra Resident: we have a very good weather year round
Storm Nordwind: I had colleagues in Malaysia who had never seen snow till they travelled with work
taramudra Resident: it must be very pretty
Storm Nordwind: Snow? It can be. I get a lot of it here!
taramudra Resident: to see form inside a warm cabin
taramudra Resident: hehe
taramudra Resident: with a cup of cocoa

A coming awakening?

taramudra Resident: what do you think about the awakening everyone is talking about that is coming next year?
taramudra Resident: do you belive it?
Storm Nordwind: Which awakening is that?
taramudra Resident: what people talk about the mayan profecy and others
taramudra Resident: people awakening to a new era?
Storm Nordwind: Calendars have to stop somewhere, just from a practical point of view. The world doesn't come to an end becuase the calendar makers run out of paper or stone :)
taramudra Resident: totally agree, but i kind of feel
taramudra Resident: more people coming to their senses
taramudra Resident: being more human
taramudra Resident: maybe its just evolution

Global communication.

Storm Nordwind: Sure. But my feeling is that that has been happening many times before in many different places. There is a single difference now - we have global communication and we're more aware of changes everywhere.
taramudra Resident: wow of course
Storm Nordwind: If it helps people to believe in a wave of change, then that's fine too :)
--BELL--
taramudra Resident: maybe thats why it can be more powerful?
Storm Nordwind: I think it gives it more potential, but that potential can be "more" anything. So it can be more powerful, but some changes can be more ephemeral too.
taramudra Resident: yes, that too
taramudra Resident: i hope humans being able to talk to each other in ways like this
taramudra Resident: helps make a better humanity
Storm Nordwind: I think it already has :))
taramudra Resident: :) for many yes
milakel Resident: stormy boy :)
taramudra Resident: hey mila!
Storm Nordwind: When you learn that people have similarities in different parts of the globe, it helps
milakel Resident: hi, tara :)
Storm Nordwind waves to Mila
milakel Resident: aha, promised snow! :)
milakel Resident: a bit too early, but lovely nonetheless
Storm Nordwind: It's not settling yet Mila - the ground is still too warm! ;)
Storm Nordwind: We had snow last night on the mountains
Storm Nordwind: Mount Evans is white today
milakel Resident: ah.... must be beautiful
taramudra Resident: must be a pretty view

Being boring?

taramudra Resident: i hope we dont loose our differences (good ones, like traditions, etc) because the world would maybe be too boring
milakel Resident: are you chanting, tara? :)
taramudra Resident: its my ao
milakel Resident: ah, that was you typing, sorry :)
taramudra Resident: let me see if i have more options
taramudra Resident: its new for me
milakel Resident: i don't think the world was or ever will be boring
milakel Resident: we may lose interest in it though :)
Storm Nordwind: Boring is what you make it; it's like the choice to be optimistic or not :)
taramudra Resident: mila, ty, i havent got a clue that was my typing! :))
taramudra Resident: already deactivated it
taramudra Resident: yeah
milakel Resident: heh, it looks fine, a bit like chanting though :)
taramudra Resident: hehe strange too
milakel Resident: our earth is too beautiful to be boring :)
milakel Resident: and so fragile too
taramudra Resident: absolutely
milakel Resident: one impact of a rock can end it within minutes

No comfort in temporary existence?

Storm Nordwind: Our idea of what's acceptable existence is fragile. Yet all existence is temporary and yet it also persists, with us or without us.
taramudra Resident: its a confort
milakel Resident: hmm, true. although, i prefer this existance at the moment (not knowing of others :)
taramudra Resident: hehe
taramudra Resident: i enjoyed this a lot, ty!
taramudra Resident: got to go now
taramudra Resident: wish you an excellent day
milakel Resident: thanks, tara :)
Storm Nordwind: Great to see you!
taramudra Resident: ty! great day!
milakel Resident: our temporary existance is not conforting to me :)
milakel Resident: some 80 years if you're lucky... so little
milakel Resident: and even then a big chunk of it has to do with health issues :)
--BELL--



Storm Nordwind: Maybe one day you'll be granted the gift of visionary insight into your far past or future... and maybe you'll even believe it! ;)
milakel Resident: um, believe what? incarnation? :)
Storm Nordwind: Continued existence in some form.
milakel Resident: ah... it's a comforting thought that we have
milakel Resident: death doesn't seem that frightening if you do believe it
Storm Nordwind: Comforting to some, quite the reverse to other (like the bowl of petunias!)
milakel Resident: i'm skeptical, but even i secretly hope that it is true :)
milakel Resident: cause no one wants to die
Storm Nordwind: That's a pragmatic stance
Storm Nordwind: And some do crave oblivion, dead or alive, as an escape from suffering
milakel Resident: yea
milakel Resident: when existance is unbearable

Knowledge and skepticism.

milakel Resident: does knowledge promote skepticism?
Storm Nordwind: No. But then skepticism is neutral, not negative.
milakel Resident: um, it's on the safe side
Storm Nordwind: And sometimes knowledge is not absolute, but is instead a set of pragmatic possibilities
milakel Resident: i avoid absolutes, unless boolean logic is involved :)
Storm Nordwind: very wise!
Storm Nordwind: Though try fuzzy logic - it's fun :)
milakel Resident: heh
Storm Nordwind: I still have a couple of books on fuzzy logic on my bookshelves - one by Bart Kosko i think, and the other by McNeill and Freiberger
milakel Resident: i find that the more i learn, the more skeptical i become. when i was a kid, i watched xfiles and believed in aliens. now it's like a comic show to me, yet still entertaining :)
milakel Resident: oh, fuzzy books :)
milakel Resident: woly would appreciate :)

Woodstock.

Storm Nordwind: The more I learn, the more open I become. The more I realize i do not know. The more i understand is possible.
milakel Resident: that is also true
milakel Resident: when i'm confronted with cosmology or intricacies of subparticles - you start to wonder how it's all possible
milakel Resident: from the dust of stars to here us two in sl
Storm Nordwind: Cue the music for Woodstock ;)
milakel Resident: ah, you've been there, right?
milakel Resident: or was it riddle
Storm Nordwind: Actually no, not me. I went to bigger stuff in England
--BELL--
milakel Resident: heh, how about queen at wembley?
milakel Resident: i wish i could have visited
Storm Nordwind: No. Big stuff for single bands was not my thing. I got in earlier when they were smaller, or saw huge numbers of bands together
milakel Resident: ah
milakel Resident: gee, freddie was so enchanting
Storm Nordwind: yes indeed
Storm Nordwind: But I didn't want to be 100 yards away watching a screen. I prefer 20 feet away :)
milakel Resident: yes, that's nice :)
milakel Resident: i like both though. the energy of the crowd and when all singing together and an intimacy of a little venue with a bar stand :)
Storm Nordwind: You can have both... a venue for say 800 people works well for that
milakel Resident: tough to host in sl :)
Storm Nordwind: haha!
milakel Resident: i see maria on the map
milakel Resident: a new art history exhibition in preparation probably
Storm Nordwind: She's often around
Storm Nordwind: or by the coast

Art as Being.

Storm Nordwind: So will you be contributing to the coming Art as Being exhibition?
milakel Resident: um, i guess :)
Storm Nordwind: Come on - stop guessing - just go do it! With all your wonderful energy, how could you fail? :))
milakel Resident: ah, it reminds me... i wanted to ask you a question on chair building :)
Storm Nordwind: Oh OK!
milakel Resident: heh, failing is fine. it's... the ideas :)
Storm Nordwind took a little liberty with his chair building - and the definition of "chair"!
milakel Resident: see, i have to remember now what it was...
Storm Nordwind: brb
Storm Nordwind: back
milakel Resident: :)
milakel Resident: thank you for the session, storm :)
milakel Resident: and chair help :)
Storm Nordwind: You're welcome. Thank you for coming along!