2011.09.04 07:00 - Opening and Closing

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

Adams Rubble: Hello FC :)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Adams
Adams Rubble: I hope everything is nice in pandaland
FcSeeker Resident: I hope you hope to come true <3
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: lots of bamboo :)
FcSeeker Resident: all fine in your life ?
FcSeeker Resident: smiles <3
Adams Rubble: yes, very busy but a nice long weekend to savor
FcSeeker Resident: that sounds very very good <3
Adams Rubble: Have you been reading anything interesting lately?
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Dash
Adams Rubble: Hello Dash
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all
FcSeeker Resident: well...some interesting lines in PaB meetings and same in Hikari meetings <3
Adams Rubble: :)
FcSeeker Resident: but I read quite a while ago a book also <3<3<3
FcSeeker Resident: very interesting book
FcSeeker Resident: that while is few months ago ...I think...early this year
FcSeeker Resident: but is it interesting to somebody else, that I cannot know
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I guess it is hard to tell

In response to my question about reading, Fc make an analogy between gold and the teachings of the monks of Tibet before the Chinese "crackdown" in 1959

FcSeeker Resident: do you know about the gold there is so much in Tibet ?
Adams Rubble: Sometimes the excitement of someone talking about a book comes through to others
Adams Rubble: no I don't
FcSeeker Resident: that book tells at least two things
FcSeeker Resident: Hello O
Adams Rubble: Hello o000o
Dash Earthboy: Hey Sam
Adams Rubble listens
FcSeeker Resident: it tells about those miraculous gold mountains; gold inside them
Dash Earthboy: wb Sam
Adams Rubble: yes, wb
FcSeeker Resident: and about the monks of those times that the book was written, that how they dont understand 'the western' people's thinking
FcSeeker Resident: wb =
FcSeeker Resident: wb O
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Yakuzza
Dash Earthboy: Yaku :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
oO0Oo Resident: ty and Hello Dash, Fc, Adams, Yaku
FcSeeker Resident: that book is more than old...written before those horrible destructions in Tibet
Adams Rubble: ohhhh
FcSeeker Resident: I dont know if it's already known why that distruction ---imho---was done ...
FcSeeker Resident: that it is for that gold there is
FcSeeker Resident: hmm
FcSeeker Resident: thinking that you are aware of those destructions....=
FcSeeker Resident: ?
Adams Rubble: yes

Fc seems to expand the analogy

FcSeeker Resident: I have also been thinking quite a lot that why is it today such 'gold fever'...'milions' of companies telling that they buy gold
FcSeeker Resident: that why so...
oO0Oo Resident wonders how the monks characterised their sense of "western people's thinking" and their struggle with it.
FcSeeker Resident: you see; gold is such medicine that it shouldn't be so expensive...
FcSeeker Resident: well...they live so humble way...and might they also think that it is the only good way to live...
Adams Rubble: :)
oO0Oo Resident imagines monks humbly bowing to each other
oO0Oo Resident: :)
FcSeeker Resident: but would it be ...at first ...any human life anymore if all turned to be monks (to live in selibath)
Adams Rubble: If we are to benefit from the gold the monks might give us, it is our task to understand their thinking not for them to understand ours :)
FcSeeker Resident: and if 'half monks'...that would get babies...how would've it been with the improvings in technology and many more things
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: well...as that's their point; not even let outsiders to enter the wide area where that gold is...but why not to share it more to the 'outsider' world that more people could get help to many illnesses with it...
Adams Rubble: ahh, yes. The destruction led to more sharing
Adams Rubble: wb Dash
FcSeeker Resident: allthoug gold is 'everywhere'...even in the seawater...just tough to collect even it's price is what it is
FcSeeker Resident: wb Dash
Adams Rubble: Hello Xirana
FcSeeker Resident: sure I still don't think that that destruction was right
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Xirana
Adams Rubble: of course not
Dash Earthboy: hey Xirana
oO0Oo Resident: Xirana :)
Adams Rubble: Cultural destruction makes veryone poorer
Xirana Oximoxi: Sam:)

As the metaphor expands, some connection with real gold or material equivalents and the sometimes disastrous results of human greed

FcSeeker Resident: ...gold has always been exiting matter to people...no matter if they have it or not...
Dash Earthboy: *thinks of the Spanish acquisition of Aztec & Inca gold
Dash Earthboy: and destruction of the cultures to get it
FcSeeker Resident: and many people died on their journey to find it...
FcSeeker Resident: hi Susan
Xirana Oximoxi: adquired following the most friendly way :)
Dash Earthboy: hey Susan
Adams Rubble: Hello Susan
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Susan

Shiva

oO0Oo Resident thinks of the cycles of creation and destruction .. Shiva
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Susan
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello susan
FcSeeker Resident: well...do people here think that there would be some nation or culture to have some special rights to hold much more gold than others ?
Adams Rubble: Hello Bruce
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bruce
Dash Earthboy: hey Bruce
iwandertoo Resident: wavs
iwandertoo Resident: *waves

Sharing and Love

Adams Rubble: As you were talking I was thinking about how "sharing" lessens the desire for people to take
oO0Oo Resident: It is similar to the water in rivers.. flowing through arbitrary borders. Who deserves to have clean water in their nations section?
oO0Oo Resident: Agreed Adams
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, everyone . . . (listens to catch the drift of the conversation.)
Adams Rubble: If the gold is Love then all nations should have as much as they can handle :)
Dash Earthboy: *John Lennon: "Imagine all the people sharing all the world."

Water

FcSeeker Resident: to that comes one answer to my mind, that they who keep the water clean...
oO0Oo Resident waves to Bruce
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Bruce:)
Adams Rubble: Yes dash and Fc
Adams Rubble: John Lennon "All you need is Love"
FcSeeker Resident: hard to let that imagine to come true yet because it's still must to be landed to so different kind reality
FcSeeker Resident: meaning even in mind
Adams Rubble: we can of course start in our best moments :)
FcSeeker Resident: always <3<3<3
oO0Oo Resident: <3<3<3
Xirana Oximoxi: :) ... and smiles too:)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: <3 <3 <3
oO0Oo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33ywoKJoCc
Adams Rubble: Thank you o000o
oO0Oo Resident: :)
FcSeeker Resident: <3
--BELL--

We get a little silly

Adams Rubble: All you need is love and water :)
FcSeeker Resident: (some bamboo also)
Adams Rubble: yes, some bamboo too :)
FcSeeker Resident: thinks one more thing to be as urgent
Dash Earthboy: "you take a stick of bamboo, you take a stick of bamboo, you take a stick of bamboo, you throw it in the water....OH oh Hannah"
Adams Rubble: bamboo soup
FcSeeker Resident: that's one example of what I was thinking to be that urgent...
FcSeeker Resident: to do
FcSeeker Resident: 'work' or work...how ever...
Adams Rubble: Hello druth
FcSeeker Resident: hi druth
druth Vlodovic: hey guys
Xirana Oximoxi: hello druth:)
Dash Earthboy: hey druth
oO0Oo Resident: H Druth
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes...and if gets work with good payment, then can buy gold...
FcSeeker Resident: and if millions, could by tools to pick it up from the sea
FcSeeker Resident: and then share
FcSeeker Resident: that would be nice ?
FcSeeker Resident: ...maybe the writer of that book wouldn't like my idea...
Adams Rubble: :)
oO0Oo Resident: can at least work on the sharing part upfront.. the tendency to do so
FcSeeker Resident: smiles <3
oO0Oo Resident: maybe the sharing is the gold
FcSeeker Resident: knows many families where there's the work shared; husband brings money to home and the wife brings it out <3<3<3
FcSeeker Resident: you are so very right
Adams Rubble: :)
FcSeeker Resident: much more valued than any amount of gold
oO0Oo Resident is curious about Susan's point of view on this
iwandertoo Resident: why so, sam?
oO0Oo Resident: ::shrugs:: just am :)
oO0Oo Resident: sharing?
Xirana Oximoxi: you mean about ..'and the wife brings it out'... sam??? :)
Adams Rubble is appreciating everyone sharing their presence here
iwandertoo Resident: support one's values - not sure who this could be accomplished should one not share
iwandertoo Resident: *how
Adams Rubble: Hello Sharon
FcSeeker Resident: Hello SophiaSharon
oO0Oo Resident: @Xir the larger notion of sharing and thanks Susan
oO0Oo Resident: vm
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Sharon:)
oO0Oo Resident: Hiya SSL
Dash Earthboy: hey Sharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: sharing requires empathy and concern for others, on the part of each party (and good communication for when empathy fails)
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: The husband and wife are one
Xirana Oximoxi: we need to share...but it's also important to respect qhen someone don't want to do it... and, if you don't share values, then sharing becomes very difficult
iwandertoo Resident: nods
druth Vlodovic: respect for the individual
iwandertoo Resident: nods
Adams Rubble: I am you except in a different place in the circle. hehe
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
oO0Oo Resident: so perhaps to find places of commonality, of which there must be many between people, rather than focussing on differences and separating
Adams Rubble: like molecules in the fountain
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles

Are there limits to love, understanding and sharing? Is it conditional?. Noting difference, good vs. bad.

Dash Earthboy: searching for common ground, searching for the good in people, is a noble exercise but should not blind one to what isn't good nor what is different
Adams Rubble: Thinking about what is not good should not make us forget that people do bad things but they are not bad people
Adams Rubble: we are them and they are us
Dash Earthboy: so Adolf Hitler was not a bad person?
Dash Earthboy: answer according to your beliefs stated please
druth Vlodovic: not by his own lights
Adams Rubble: Hitler did terrible things. He had very little compassion or understanding
Adams Rubble: but he was once a little baby too
Adams Rubble: how can we judge?
Dash Earthboy: but was he a bad person?
druth Vlodovic: if you accept that no one who isn't insane thinks of themselves as evil then they become easier to understand, but you have to overcome a desire not to understand them
Dash Earthboy: you already judge when you say there is no bad person
Adams Rubble: I believe No one is completely bad nor completely good
FcSeeker Resident: to judge judgment is also to judge...
druth Vlodovic: lol, actually only people who have too high standards think of themselves as evil
Dash Earthboy: let's avoid "completely"
Dash Earthboy: sounds like another judgement druth :)
Dash Earthboy: what standards are "too high"?
Adams Rubble: Let's respect what we have said here today and not turn this into a debate
Bruce Mowbray: As a child, Hitler was extremely abused by his father - - which doesn't excuse his adult behavior, might might help us understand it better.
Bruce Mowbray: see Alice Miller's studies of this.
Dash Earthboy: i have not had problems understanding bad people
Dash Earthboy: but a thief is a thief (and more of course)
FcSeeker Resident: Hitler was also afraid of his own nation...
FcSeeker Resident: he neither acted alone
Bruce Mowbray: Why am I having so much "trouble" with these faile terms: "good people" "bad people"?
Adams Rubble: I hope that our final thoughts are about love and sharing this morning and not about Hitler :)
Dash Earthboy: true Fc he had his supporters
Bruce Mowbray: facile terms*
SophiaSharon Larnia: (got to go for now, see ya!!)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye SSL.
Adams Rubble: It was a beautiful session, thank you all :)
iwandertoo Resident: waces
FcSeeker Resident: waves
iwandertoo Resident: *waves
Dash Earthboy: bye SSL
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Sharon
Adams Rubble: I must go too. Looking forward to a visit with close relatives
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Dash Earthboy: bye Adams
--BELL--
FcSeeker Resident: waves to Adams
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Adams, have a nice day:)
oO0Oo Resident: tricky part, for me, is identifying my own part, my own nature, with what I a deeming "bad" in others
Adams Rubble: Have a good day or evening everyone :)
Dash Earthboy: is there no guardian mtg at this time?
iwandertoo Resident: (waves)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye to all:)
Dash Earthboy: bye Susan
Dash Earthboy: bye Xirana
FcSeeker Resident: by Xirana and Susan
Bruce Mowbray: gotta go to mtg. Bye for now.
Dash Earthboy: hey Maxine
FcSeeker Resident: hi Maxine
Dash Earthboy: bye Bruce
druth Vlodovic: g2g, have fun guys
FcSeeker Resident: takes a humble bow
oO0Oo Resident waves goodbye to what was a circle full of friends
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
druth Vlodovic: grabs FC's humble bow and runs off with it
Dash Earthboy: bye Fc
oO0Oo Resident: namaste bear of many hearts
Dash Earthboy: bye druth
Dash Earthboy: i hear ya Sam
oO0Oo Resident: Funny.. I keep backspacing my impulsive thoughts as they arise
Dash Earthboy: :)
Dash Earthboy: second-guessing yourself?
Dash Earthboy: usually didn't work well for school tests for me :)
oO0Oo Resident: alowing a little leeway in the energy of agenda behind the thoughts that come maybe
Dash Earthboy: even on school tests, teachers considered me very accurate if outspoken
oO0Oo Resident: takes a while to get to know a person.. I like to make room in myself for that
Dash Earthboy: funny thing, i have heard that "let's respect what each has said here" be used by preachers to close a service which let them retain control and have their beliefs be the final say...well them and their supporters
Dash Earthboy: a minority view is often hushed by that "let's respect" command
Dash Earthboy: turns it into any conflict of perspective is insubordination
oO0Oo Resident: maybe it's an issue with authority altogether. I resist those forms.. yet sometimes I miss people's genuinely good intentions in my own reactivity
Dash Earthboy: i've been put down and held down by such controlling maneuvers for too long to passively accept it
oO0Oo Resident: understand what you are saying
Dash Earthboy: i don't miss good intentions Sam
oO0Oo Resident: no .. it's me that misses them Dash
Dash Earthboy: but if someone with good intentions tells me to put antifreeze in my coffee because they believe it's as sweet as sugar, i must act on what is said, not what their intentions are
Dash Earthboy: in other words, I've had to protect myself from ignorance of others for a long time
oO0Oo Resident: hahahahahhaha... please give me the ability to discern these things.. yes.. not to drink anti-freeze
Dash Earthboy: especially authorities and professionals
Dash Earthboy: starting in first grade when an eye doctor (with good intentions of course) tried to force me to wear bifocals
Dash Earthboy: who can challenge the intentions of the good doctor huh?
Dash Earthboy: some little six year old kid?
Dash Earthboy: but I did
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Santo, and sorry to cut short our conversation Dash, but I would like to attend a meeting which I am late for.
Dash Earthboy: and I saved my sight
Dash Earthboy: hi San
Santoshima Resident: sorry, please contiue, i'll leave
--BELL--
oO0Oo Resident waves
oO0Oo Resident: and smiles
Dash Earthboy: have a good one Sam
oO0Oo Resident: you too mate